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faustnik
03-15-2004, 01:15 PM
Has B-17 gunner accuracy been toned way down? I'm finding it all too easy to close on a B-17 from a dead 6. LW pilots developed the head-on attack for a reason, they would get all shot up from a stern approach. I hope I have just been lucky lately. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

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faustnik
03-15-2004, 01:15 PM
Has B-17 gunner accuracy been toned way down? I'm finding it all too easy to close on a B-17 from a dead 6. LW pilots developed the head-on attack for a reason, they would get all shot up from a stern approach. I hope I have just been lucky lately. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

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Flamin_Squirrel
03-15-2004, 01:25 PM
How many were you attacking? Indervidual B-17s were very vunerable. Their defensive fire only really became effective in large formations.

faustnik
03-15-2004, 01:27 PM
I practice against 8 to 12 heavies. Any more than that and my frames get choppy.

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clint-ruin
03-15-2004, 01:31 PM
One way of testing this might be to set up a local co-op mission with the player flying a B-17 against AI, then use "user stat" for the hit percentage.

From memory Future- listed 2-12% [or 2-8%?] being the hit percentage for 1.22.

I haven't played with the bombers much other than using the nice new toys [229/163/U4] on them, and given that it's damn hard to get below 600kmh with those it's unlikely they'd be hitting much even if nothing had been changed.

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Future-
03-15-2004, 03:31 PM
I haven't done any detailed research on the ai gunner's efficiency in AEP, but yes, it WAS between 2 - 10 % in 1.22.

One thing is clear: they are less efficient now. As far as I observed it, they got tuned down in two ways:

- their reaction time is a little higher, plus the range at which they sometimes start to react seems to have been slightly reduced.

- the turrets & guns now rotate a LOT slower than before, which is mostly ok if your opponent moves slowly and comes from 6. But opponents that move from side to side, as well as enemies coming in from anywhere else than 5 - 7 oclock, can do their attack almost unchallenged, as the gunners by the time they finally got their guns turned around only have very little - to no time left to properly aim & fire.

Of course, one still gets ripped if he flys slowly near a B-17, but now it takes an almost unrealistic amount of time 'till they finally get even shot at!

The worst thing was this situation recently: a Spitfire was moving in from 8 oclock, approached me close, passed over me and assumed a parallel heading on my right side, at about a 3 - 4 oclock position. However, instead of geting ripped to shreds for the time he was there, he remained untouched for many seconds 'till the ball turret had finally turned around.
Of course, after finally the first shots were fired at him, he did another quick turn, at a relatively slow speed, and went away with only light damage, whereas in 1.22 he would most definitely been killed or at least heavily damaged.

A bad thing about all this is, the gunners obviously don't "know" that they now rotate slower, cause often they start firing although they are only halfway turned towards target!

I know that turret rotation was usually slow, cause whirling it around would only have given the gunners a headache. But if needed, the turrets were able to swing around very fast ( at the speed they once did in 1.22 ) to target an enemy at a new close nearby position.

My conclusion is, Oleg mainly reacted on the continuous whines of some incompetents & egomaniacs out there, who didn't like the idea of getting shot by what they see as a simple target.

Now, I could perfectly live with these changes, if only the overall weapons effectiveness would have been tuned down also. But with the shotgun 109Z in the game, it's almost impossible to complete an attack run without getting shredded to pieces, even if some fighter cover is present.
And if not the 109Z, the Ki-84-Ic or the 190 A9 also do a great job, not to mention the 262, or any plane that can carry missiles.

So basically, a setting somewhere between as it is now and as it was in 1.22 would be best. I hope this will be changed.


S! and thx for reading

- Future

Commanding Officer of the 530th Bomb Squad
380th Bomb Group 5th AF USAAF

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faustnik
03-15-2004, 03:42 PM
Future,

Could you do the same test with Aces that you did with 1.22 and post.

I'm going to run some 190A8 attacks agaisnt the heavies set on "veteran" and "ace". Maybe there is just a better range of gunner skill, I hope.

Thanks,

faust

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Future-
03-15-2004, 09:12 PM
Of course, but it will take some time...plus keep in mind that I mainly base my tests and observations on online battles, mostly DF maps.

S!

- Future

Commanding Officer of the 530th Bomb Squad
380th Bomb Group 5th AF USAAF

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Visit us at http://members.tripod.com/tophatssquadron , home of the 310th FS and the 380th BG

Bearcat99
03-15-2004, 09:26 PM
I wish they'd tone down the ship AI..or at least make it adjustable... on a 1-2-3 kind of adjustment.

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faustnik
03-15-2004, 09:54 PM
OK, some good news, at least for me. On "veteran" and "ace" setting the B-17 defensive fire is still good enough to require proper tactics. On average setting I could go right up behind the heavies and blast away at them while taking only a couple random .50 hits. On "veteran" or "ace" the same stupid approach got my engine shot out fairly quickly. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

So, I can solve my issues by adjusting settings in FMB.

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