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Jnathus
08-16-2004, 07:56 AM
I noticed that in the options of the Myst IV demo, there are multiple resolutions, which is a first for my experience with pre-rendered games . . . unless you count Syberia. Does that mean that it somehow scales the graphics up and down (can't see how this is possible with pre-rendering), or that there are 3 totally separate sets of graphics that the game can use depending on which resolution you pick?

Jnathus
08-16-2004, 07:56 AM
I noticed that in the options of the Myst IV demo, there are multiple resolutions, which is a first for my experience with pre-rendered games . . . unless you count Syberia. Does that mean that it somehow scales the graphics up and down (can't see how this is possible with pre-rendering), or that there are 3 totally separate sets of graphics that the game can use depending on which resolution you pick?

jetuserX
08-16-2004, 09:13 AM
its the latter i believe

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Washington Webteam
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F B
08-16-2004, 11:23 AM
The simplest way to support various resolutions would in my opinion be to render everything in the highest resolution and simpy scale it down for the lower resolutions real-time in the game, in the same way as you would do when making a photograph smaller using a graphics editor.

Just a thought http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

jetuserX
08-16-2004, 11:30 AM
thats not really a good idea after all after a certain resolution the picture becomes pixellated

-----------------------------
Washington Webteam
http://crwash.org
In Dev: http://crwash.org/_development

F B
08-16-2004, 11:34 AM
Yes, when the resolution gets lower, you get blocks, that's normal. That's why we don't use CGA anymore http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. You cannot make the resolution higher than it is.

jetuserX
08-16-2004, 11:36 AM
well i believe i read somewhere it will be rendered in multiple resolutions

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Washington Webteam
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In Dev: http://crwash.org/_development

Jnathus
08-16-2004, 11:43 AM
Well, if they're going to render it in multiple resolutions, could they please do it in 1600x1200.. My PC's LCD display and my Laptop have this native resolution. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Probably not.. one can dream though.

jetuserX
08-16-2004, 11:53 AM
i think thats one of them ... i could be mistaken though

-----------------------------
Washington Webteam
http://crwash.org
In Dev: http://crwash.org/_development

Nebodin
08-16-2004, 03:22 PM
1600x1200 resolution would rock. 1024x728 is definitely better than previous versions of myst, but to be able to crank it even higher would make it much better. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Jnathus
08-16-2004, 06:44 PM
Actually I've never really run a game for any length of time at 1600x1200. Pre-rendered stuff might be easier on the system, but things like Unreal Tournament 2004 and Doom 3 tend to just chug when cranked up that high (and they get worse when I turn on all of my special features to make them all pretty).

Eat_My_Shortz
08-17-2004, 06:15 PM
JetUser, there is absolutely NO WAY they'd render the entire game more than once. Say they supported 3 resolutions. Then the game would be just under 3x the number of disks, it would take just under 3x as long to render (each rendering taking several months)... you get the idea.

It would be exactly the same if they rendered it at the highest resolution and then scaled it down ingame - you'd get the same quality.

But its more complex than that. Now I'm going to be talking from experience - I've written a bubble engine and done some test renders and calculations so I know how this works!

When you have a bubble engine such as this, you don't actually render it at the final resolution. What you are doing is effectively rendering a texture to be mapped onto a sphere. This sphere is made up of polygons and is rendered in realtime, just like Uru or your other 3D games.

However all the detailed graphics of the game are not rendered in realtime, they are prerendered into 2D and mapped onto the 3D sphere.

What this means is that bubble-engine graphics are ALREADY being stretched. They have to be, to change the perspective from a spherical render to a regular pyramid perspective. The graphics near the edge of the screen is actually enlarged.

Now if you recall Uru or any other 3D game, it is possible to change the resolution. Doing so does not change the texture resolution - the textures are exactly the same.

So in any bubble engine game which allows you to change the resolution (Aura is another example), this basically allows the edge of the screen to appear finer.

Now because its rendered in 2D, there is a limit to the resolution you can display at ingame - any higher than this and the quality will stay the same.

Although with Myst IV's special graphics "ALIVE" system, some objects may indeed be 3D or rendered at higher resolutions, etc, and may benefit from the extra resolution.

Ask if you want me to be clearer on any of those points.

_______________________________________________
I touch them... and they are real... (http://plasma.cyanworlds.com)
00113229 on Tapestry
00100487 on Guild of Greeters

jetuserX
08-17-2004, 07:44 PM
no i got it ... im a fellow nerd too :P well i can uderstand where you are coming from but it would make more sense to render at least two different resoultions so it doesnt become pixellated after a certain point

-----------------------------
Washington Webteam
http://crwash.org
In Dev: http://crwash.org/_development

Rashekfee
08-17-2004, 09:20 PM
Does anyone know if there will be widescreen resolution options? It would be tough usually, I know, but it looks like the actual game has the same aspect ratio as normal widescreen.... could they just kill the inventory bar, and move the camera/amulet/etc. into the game section? Can anyone even decipher what I just said? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif

Eat_My_Shortz
08-18-2004, 01:02 AM
Rashekfee - it would be quite easy to make a widescreen option, since the game is technically rendered in realtime 3D. As I said they can render any resolution they like and the textures just scale.
If you have a widescreen monitor, it will probably be supported by default.

jetuser - I'm sorry but I can't understand the reason for rendering it more than once. As I said:
1) Rendering more than once is useless.
If its rendered once at the highest resolution, then the lower resolutions will automatically be fine for their resolutions. Rendering the game at a lower resolution will produce exactly the same effects as rendering at high resolution and then displaying at low resolution.
2) Rendering more than once is costly.
If the game was rendered at higher resolutions then at lower resolutions, it would take months more to render, and it would take up maybe an extra DVD or two.
(Of course the same results could be acheived if the high res renders are scaled down, and this is precisely how the engine scales them in realtime)

_______________________________________________
I touch them... and they are real... (http://plasma.cyanworlds.com)
00113229 on Tapestry
00100487 on Guild of Greeters

LazerFX
08-18-2004, 10:59 AM
Ahhh... fellow geeks http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I like the term 'bubble engine'. I must admit, I thought it was something like the Quicktime system where you just pan around a image large, esentially panoramic, image - I had wondered how they'd managed to remove the 'fish-eye' effects, and of course if they're doing special texture mapping onto a sphere then it becomes a relatively 'trivial' matter (In the great scheme of things) to expand the texture mapping to remove that fish-eye look...

Hmmm... *ponders* I wonder if this is going to be my first OpenGL project under .NET? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

--
LazerFX - Mystaholic Computer Geek

Eat_My_Shortz
08-20-2004, 10:23 PM
Ahh now I see where you were coming from!

Yes, so thats how it is very trivially scaled...

Well I programmed this "bubble" engine under DirectX with .NET - I've never used OpenGL before... It works just like Exile it stretches it perfectly and you can watch the perspective change as you pan, just like in Exile.

_______________________________________________
I touch them... and they are real... (http://plasma.cyanworlds.com)
00113229 on Tapestry
00100487 on Guild of Greeters

LazerFX
08-21-2004, 08:47 AM
Never used DirectX - I was looking into it, but I got sidetracked by the 3DBuzz (http://www.3dbuzz.com) tutorial on OpenGL...

I'd personally rather do DirectX, because it's got more features (I'd love to do a pixelshader texture, or the like), but I've never found any decent resources...

--
LazerFX - Mystaholic Computer Geek

realXCV
08-21-2004, 09:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>But its more complex than that.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Now I'm going to be talking from experience<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Me too.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>It works just like Exile<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If it use a sphere as a bubble then it doesn't work like Exile.

Let me explain:

Exile use a cubic environment mapping. One view for each face of the cube (front, back, left, right, top, bottom). Each view is rendered in 480x480 with a 90? fov. They are then mapped on each face of the cube to make the bubble.

Someone on MC said that M4 is rendered in 768x768 so it probably works the same way as Exile.

Eat_My_Shortz
08-22-2004, 06:48 PM
Really? OK thats interesting... it seems to me that a sphere would work much better than a cube. (I used a sphere and it looked perfect).

Although if you pre-calculated the effects of the cubic distortion first, and reversed them on the image, I suppose you'd get the same result.

But whether you use a cube or a sphere, the theory's going to be exactly the same. You can change the screen resolution as much as you like and the 3D image will simply scale in resolution.
_______________________________________________
I touch them... and they are real... (http://plasma.cyanworlds.com)
113229 on Tapestry
100487 on Guild of Greeters

MTigerV
08-22-2004, 09:18 PM
i know its off topic but im trying to spread the word to get a U.S. version of the CE

"i have an idea lets do what every P.O.'ed fan group does. send enormus amounts of email that beg, plead, and threaten the Ubi staff until they give in, its worked on other industries (how you get new cable channels) so why no here?
just a suggestion http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif"

spread the word

GEAUX TIGERS!

LazerFX
08-23-2004, 11:27 AM
Yeah, but this doesn't look like exile - exile had a noticable distortion, which (I've been doing a little research) you get when you do cubic mapping. Spherical mapping is harder to do, but you get a much clearer and 'more correct' map, and you don't get that distortion at the edges....

Anyway, however they do it, as EMS said - it's the principle that counts, whether it's mapped onto a sphere, a cube, a triangle, or an intricate mesh of Michael Jacksons nose...

--
LazerFX - Mystaholic Computer Geek