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View Full Version : Rogue Storyline Doesn't Add Up?



TonyBaloneyy
04-13-2015, 06:21 AM
Why does Assassin's Creed Rogue not add up with Assassin's Creed 3?
I'm confuse as to why things are different

LoyalACFan
04-13-2015, 06:30 AM
In what way? Aside from Shay just being conveniently not mentioned anywhere in AC3, I didn't really see any continuity errors.

TonyBaloneyy
04-13-2015, 06:45 AM
In the beginning of Rogue as Shay and Liam talks about Achilles crying over the death of Abigail and Connor.
Wasn't Connor just a kid at the time?

HDinHB
04-13-2015, 06:54 AM
Not that Connor---Connor Davenport was Achilles' son and Abigail was Achilles' wife. Both died of typhoid fever.

http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Connor_Davenport

http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Abigail_Davenport

Namikaze_17
04-13-2015, 07:25 AM
Achilles most likely thought Shay wasn't worth talking about as it was his mistake that backfired on him.

That, plus Shay was halfway across the world with Achilles not knowing if Shay was alive or not to bother Connor about it. :rolleyes:

ACZanius
04-13-2015, 02:08 PM
Nope false, AC: Rogue didn't even exist when AC 3 was finished it's simple as that, it's writing problem. Look it up, that's why the AC3/Rogue thing is messed up so much. You can't just change something when it's finished so yeah, really bothers me the Connor/Shay thing. Conclusion, this part is JUST MY OPINION/Thoughts, perhaps original concept was the game was about Haytham ( which makes sense to me) not Shay and possibly was later changed. These are interesting topics.

pacmanate
04-13-2015, 02:47 PM
Anyone who thinks that Rogue was decided around AC3 is kidding themselves. At best, this game started development in 2013, around Black Flag.

I refuse to believe that if Shay wasnt just thrown together, Achilles would have mentioned him to Connor, or Haytham would have mentioned him in AC3.

waynedavies89
04-13-2015, 02:49 PM
Abigail and Connor were Achilles family and he gave Ratonhnhaké:ton the name Connor almost as a tribute in memory of his lost son.

I see the holes where no one mentions Shay, but in all honesty if its not relevant to the events of the story at that point in time, is it worth mentioning?

If I was Achilles, I wouldn't want to talk about the "monster" I inadvertently created or the tragic events that transpired.
If I was Haytham, Connor already has ample reason to kill me because of Ziio's death and Charles Lee, I don't want to add crippling Connors mentor to the list of grievance.

ACZanius
04-13-2015, 02:58 PM
waynedavies89
Keep giving Ubisoft good excuses to ignore these problems, more fans like you needed :/ :/

pacmanate
Yeah i agree, completely.

waynedavies89
04-13-2015, 03:55 PM
waynedavies89
Keep giving Ubisoft good excuses to ignore these problems, more fans like you needed :/ :/

HAHA! Hey! Just because I try to over look a missing detail in a game that's 3 years old, doesn't mean that I'm cool with it or that it doesn't annoy me!

It does annoy me too! Not as much that Shay wasn't mentioned in AC3, but that Shay vs. Connor, with Achilles and Haytham one either side, would have been an more interesting battle, in my opinion.

Unfortunately, when they were writing AC3, of course they weren't thinking this far ahead! Fact is, as any franchises in film, TV or video games continues, you will get plot holes, gaps and **** that doesn't make sense. It's inevitable.


Maybe some of it will be cleared up in Victory? For now, lets just wait and see.

Locopells
04-13-2015, 04:05 PM
Who says Shay wasn't mentioned? We don't hear most of the history of Assassins v Templars war, as it was told to Connor, so...

I-Like-Pie45
04-13-2015, 04:08 PM
^that's just convenience and grasping lol

Namikaze_17
04-13-2015, 04:11 PM
Who says Shay wasn't mentioned? We don't hear most of the history of Assassins v Templars war, as it was told to Connor, so...

Indeed; Connor probably brushed it off like how he brushed off Ezio.

ze_topazio
04-13-2015, 04:59 PM
Connor: So Achilles, how did my father pwned you this hard?

Achilles: One of my men, Shay, betrayed us and join the Templars, thanks to his inside knowledge of how we work we got pwned.

Haytham suddenly appears.

Haytham: Actually all the info he used was provided by us, his inside knowledge was worthless, just saying.

Haytham leaves.

Achilles: Anyway, Shay's not an issue, he moved to Europe at some point and never returned, our brothers in Europe tell me he's still there.

Connor: I see, in that case I won't even bother remembering this conversation.

Achilles: Do as you please.

the_don7684
04-13-2015, 05:14 PM
The only thing that really needs consistency is the modern day stuff. With AC3, AC4, and Rogue, you get a bit of a Christopher Walken with the unattached thoughts. 3 different people with 3 different views on how all of it is working. The small details throughout the memories we have played that dead end or dont add up, I take with a spoon of sugar. Each one of these games tell a really good story nonetheless.

Mr.Black24
04-13-2015, 05:22 PM
Want to see something that visually hurts:

Here is Connor with Benjamin Franklin during the Deceleration of Independence in 1776:
http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130103131131/assassinscreed/images/6/6a/ACIII-Publicexecution_14.png

Not too soon, he leaves for Paris to enlist aid in France, in 1776....with Shay:
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/aR8YZkmjItw/maxresdefault.jpg

He knows that Connor is messing with the Templar Order, and being an Assassin Hunter, clearly he would have done something about it! He clearly looks peeved of his mentioning:

https://41.media.tumblr.com/6f0b8ad3804e44bc22cf618a03fe4107/tumblr_nese1atglL1sftp7bo5_500.jpg

He comes back with the freakin Box, and nothing happened before Shay and Connor!!!!

Markaccus
04-13-2015, 05:36 PM
If the story link between these games is a bit stretched, does that mean Ubisoft have
`●-●`
(o_o)
(`●-●)
STRAINED THIER ACHILLES?!

GunnerGalactico
04-13-2015, 06:10 PM
Abigail and Connor were Achilles family and he gave Ratonhnhaké:ton the name Connor almost as a tribute in memory of his lost son.

I see the holes where no one mentions Shay, but in all honesty if its not relevant to the events of the story at that point in time, is it worth mentioning?

If I was Achilles, I wouldn't want to talk about the "monster" I inadvertently created or the tragic events that transpired.
If I was Haytham, Connor already has ample reason to kill me because of Ziio's death and Charles Lee, I don't want to add crippling Connors mentor to the list of grievance.


^ I agree with this!

At first, I kinda liked the idea of Connor and Shay having a confrontation, but now I'm not so keen about it. Connor has no dealings or any reason to quarrel with Shay. Achilles was the one that had a grudge against him, not Connor. The only people that should have a bone to pick with Shay is Eseosa and Arno.

LoyalACFan
04-13-2015, 08:25 PM
IMO the stupidest thing about it is that Shay is apparently well aware of Connor single-handedly shredding the colonial Templars to ruins as early as 1776, but despite being apparently the most accomplished Assassin hunter on the planet, he doesn't do jack sh*t about it and just lets them all die, lol. Scumbag Shay.

Unless they come out with some BS midquel DLC where Shay returns to America, hastily fathers a child for Animus purposes, and gets #rekt by Connor before the ending of AC3.

I almost want this now

Xstantin
04-13-2015, 08:34 PM
Rogue really could be a fanfic :rolleyes:

Hans684
04-13-2015, 08:36 PM
IMO the stupidest thing about it is that Shay is apparently well aware of Connor single-handedly shredding the colonial Templars to ruins as early as 1776, but despite being apparently the most accomplished Assassin hunter on the planet, he doesn't do jack sh*t about it and just lets them all die, lol. Scumbag Shay.

Dead or hiding the box somewhere in Europa before dealing with Connor(maybe he gets a child In the prosses before that). And Connor's brotherhood isn't like Achilles, so there is a possibility of peace(fits both characters) until Eseosa(revenge) or an fantic destroys the peace.

Namikaze_17
04-13-2015, 08:40 PM
IMO the stupidest thing about it is that Shay is apparently well aware of Connor single-handedly shredding the colonial Templars to ruins as early as 1776, but despite being apparently the most accomplished Assassin hunter on the planet, he doesn't do jack sh*t about it and just lets them all die, lol. Scumbag Shay.

^ This should be a meme. :p

Unless they come out with some BS midquel DLC where Shay returns to America, hastily fathers a child for Animus purposes, and gets #rekt by Connor before the ending of AC3.


Talk about rushed...


I almost want this now

I'm starting to really want this as well.

GunnerGalactico
04-13-2015, 08:52 PM
IMO the stupidest thing about it is that Shay is apparently well aware of Connor single-handedly shredding the colonial Templars to ruins as early as 1776, but despite being apparently the most accomplished Assassin hunter on the planet, he doesn't do jack sh*t about it and just lets them all die, lol. Scumbag Shay.

Unless they come out with some BS midquel DLC where Shay returns to America, hastily fathers a child for Animus purposes, and gets #rekt by Connor before the ending of AC3.

I almost want this now

I would like that too

pacmanate
04-13-2015, 09:10 PM
Rogue really could be a fanfic :rolleyes:

It is, thats why its so short

I-Like-Pie45
04-13-2015, 09:25 PM
Our AC Fanfic is 79 chapters and not even at the halfway point and if it were translated to a game it would probably be worth about three rogues

Altair1789
04-13-2015, 11:46 PM
Abigail and Connor were Achilles family and he gave Ratonhnhaké:ton the name Connor almost as a tribute in memory of his lost son.

I see the holes where no one mentions Shay, but in all honesty if its not relevant to the events of the story at that point in time, is it worth mentioning?

If I was Achilles, I wouldn't want to talk about the "monster" I inadvertently created or the tragic events that transpired.
If I was Haytham, Connor already has ample reason to kill me because of Ziio's death and Charles Lee, I don't want to add crippling Connors mentor to the list of grievance.


This is how it adds up in my mind. Shay probably would've been mentioned, but it's not like Achilles denied Shay's existence. In a deleted scene, Achilles talks about what Haytham and the templars did to the order, and when Connor asks why they spared Achilles, he says something along the lines of "let's not open old wounds". He doesn't want to talk about Shay

SpiritOfNevaeh
04-14-2015, 12:45 AM
All these open plotholes found in games, BY THE FANS MIND YOU, make my head hurt!!

GDI Ubisoft writers, you had ONE job!! DX

Mr.Black24
04-14-2015, 02:43 AM
All these open plotholes found in games, BY THE FANS MIND YOU, make my head hurt!!

GDI Ubisoft writers, you had ONE job!! DX
Exactly what I pointed out in our last Podcast!:rolleyes:

Ey yo, Victory! Yall better have that Connor/Arno/Shay/Aveline DLC ready for us, or else us fans are coming in dry!

ACZanius
04-14-2015, 01:14 PM
I honestly believe that by now Ubisoft saw that a lot of people want more Connor, so i have faith something is in development right now :)

SpiritOfNevaeh
04-14-2015, 01:46 PM
I honestly believe that by now Ubisoft saw that a lot of people want more Connor, so i have faith something is in development right now :)

I was thinking this too.

*hope renewed*

ACZanius
04-14-2015, 01:53 PM
Inb4 it's a Chronicles game lol

CyrussNP
04-15-2015, 07:02 AM
Most of you saying the story doesn't tie in nicely with AC 3 haven't been paying attention at all. I've played through the AC series multiple times and I can say with a certainty that AC Rogue absolutely makes sense. It's AC 3 that is lacking in exposition. Sure, AC 3 came out first. But a lot of what happened between Connor and Achilles and what was taught to Connor happened off screen. If anything it makes less sense that the powerful Templar Order of the Colonial Rite were such pushovers when Connor entered the scene.

The only thing that wasn't explained was what happened to Jack Weeks. He shows up as a Templar in AC Rogue, does nothing terribly important and then disappears.

Altair1789
04-15-2015, 09:43 PM
Ey yo, Victory! Yall better have that Connor/Arno/Shay/Aveline DLC ready for us, or else us fans are coming in dry!

Psh, what we really need is a Helix Menu DLC :rolleyes:

pacmanate
04-16-2015, 02:33 PM
I honestly believe that by now Ubisoft saw that a lot of people want more Connor, so i have faith something is in development right now :)

A lot of people also want more Ezio, both genders.

When I look around on tumblr *shudders* or anywhere else on the internet, it seems Connors demographic is Females.

VestigialLlama4
04-16-2015, 02:48 PM
When I look around on tumblr *shudders* or anywhere else on the internet, it seems Connors demographic is Females.

Well obviously that can't be tolerated at all. I mean who cares what women want? You know the reason why Titanic is the most successful film. It attracted women, so Connor is the Leo DiCaprio of AC.

pacmanate
04-16-2015, 06:16 PM
Well obviously that can't be tolerated at all. I mean who cares what women want? You know the reason why Titanic is the most successful film. It attracted women, so Connor is the Leo DiCaprio of AC.

Well you just missed a point. You dont want games that are focused towards one gender, less sales.

VestigialLlama4
04-16-2015, 06:19 PM
Well you just missed a point. You dont want games that are focused towards one gender, less sales.

Games focused on males sell pretty well you know, and women are half or more than half of the gaming community.

pacmanate
04-16-2015, 06:22 PM
Games focused on males sell pretty well you know, and women are half or more than half of the gaming community.

That doesnt mean Ubisoft are going to target a certain gender.

pirate1802
04-16-2015, 09:48 PM
Everyone does, mayte.

Mr.Black24
04-16-2015, 10:14 PM
Well obviously that can't be tolerated at all. I mean who cares what women want? You know the reason why Titanic is the most successful film. It attracted women, so Connor is the Leo DiCaprio of AC.
Perhaps I'm reading this wrong but.....****ing sexist much....?

Shahkulu101
04-16-2015, 10:24 PM
^ Bruh.

http://cdn.gifbay.com/2013/07/professor_frink_sarcasm_detector-68030.gif

Defalt221
04-17-2015, 08:02 AM
Achilles most likely thought Shay wasn't worth talking about as it was his mistake that backfired on him.

That, plus Shay was halfway across the world with Achilles not knowing if Shay was alive or not to bother Connor about it. :rolleyes:

Actually Achilles does tell Connor how he failed the colonial Brotherhood. While explaining the reason of his failure I don't think he'll not mention Shay, because Shay is DIRECTLY RESONSIBLE for what happened. Maybe Connor doesn't care about what's Shay doing because he's far away and most probably won't return as Haytham told Shay (Spoilers) it'll cost Shay his lifetime to find the box but he has to risk it. Maybe Achilles knew that, told Connor about Shay's new journey. So they both forgot about it... It's possible.

ACZanius
04-17-2015, 04:47 PM
DUDE are you people like deaf, Assassin's Creed Rogue DID NOT EVEN EXIST (NOT EXIST - Was not even present in any shape or form of existence) when AC 3 was finished, all these debates make no sense, it's not some Ubisoft mystery it's literally writing problem or story problem. LOOK IT UP, and when AC 3 was finished Shay DID NOT EVEN EXIST, they created Shay out of the blue later, i guess original story would go that Haytham was the one etc so yeah, there you go. :cool:

Shahkulu101
04-17-2015, 05:03 PM
DUDE are you people like deaf, Assassin's Creed Rogue DID NOT EVEN EXIST (NOT EXIST - Was not even present in any shape or form of existence) when AC 3 was finished, all these debates make no sense, it's not some Ubisoft mystery it's literally writing problem or story problem. LOOK IT UP, and when AC 3 was finished Shay DID NOT EVEN EXIST, they created Shay out of the blue later, i guess original story would go that Haytham was the one etc so yeah, there you go. :cool:

Rogue would have been way better if Haytham was the protagonist. Only problem is they might not have been able to make the game naval based.

Namikaze_17
04-17-2015, 05:07 PM
HEY WHAT'S WITH THE CAPS? NO ONE HERE IS BLIND DUDE! :rolleyes:

ACZanius
04-17-2015, 05:10 PM
Good point Shahkulu101, i still like Shay a lot but i would agree with you, a game with Haytham would make SO MUCH more sense and we could literally avoid all these "plot holes" or inconsistencies or whatever one wants to call it. Correct me if i'm wrong but wasn't Haytham also a good ship "captain", i remember in AC3 where you hunt for Church Haytham says something in lines to Connor "maybe you should give wheel to someone with more skills" i'm pretty sure he meant himself but yeah bottom line, would be epic if game was with Haytham after all, he is in my opinion stronger and better in combat than Shay so he would have even better chance against Colonial Assassins.

VestigialLlama4
04-17-2015, 05:53 PM
Correct me if i'm wrong but wasn't Haytham also a good ship "captain",

Absolutely Not. Haytham is the Black Sheep of the Kenway Family. Edward and Connor are down-to-earth man of the people, Haytham is a posh aristocratic jerk. Edward and Connor can sail a boat, Haytham gets other people to do stuff for him, except when it involves beating up people and killing. The prologue of AC3, deliberately makes Haytham to be everything Connor can do that he can't. Heck there's that exchange with the sea Captain:


Smythe: I want you below decks.
Haytham: Why? Let me help you secure the ship.
Smythe: Do you know how to rig a sail? To load a cannon? To wage war at sea? I didn't think so. Now return to your cabin – or do I need to have you escorted?


i remember in AC3 where you hunt for Church Haytham says something in lines to Connor "maybe you should give wheel to someone with more skills" i'm pretty sure he meant himself

Nah that's just Haytham being an a--hole.

To me, ROGUE is a game that takes a good-idea-in-theory (Play a Templar) and defeats the very purpose why that idea was worth exploring. ROGUE as a story doesn't work without AC3 and Black Flag, so its essentially something that doesn't fully appeal or satisfy people who are newbies. It has no historical grounding, the one event it shows is so laughably silly (a shiny orb in a Church basement causes an earthquake that levels a city) that it simply doesn't work the way it does. I mean Stuff-Causing-Earthquakes is a comic book reason to change sides and convert beliefs. In Revelations, Vali cel Tradat had genuinely painful and dramatic reasons for turning sides, something that was believable and humane.

But the most important reason for playing as a Templar, one that could have redeemed a fan-fiction cannibalized-assets comic-book game like this is not there. That is being the bad guy. The fact is the Templars however sympathetic and likable they are, however nice their motivations and reasons for being do shady and outright evil, are the bad guys of the game. Simple as that. They think its for the greater good and in their defense history has been made by many bad guys who did evil things. As such playing a Templar who doesn't get his hands dirty is not really playing a Templar. If the game had given missions where Shay has to massacre some villages or kill some civilians for the Templar good, only then he would be convincing. Simply being a reject-Assassin is not enough. That's the only moral ambiguity that matters.

Defalt221
04-17-2015, 06:30 PM
HEY WHAT'S WITH THE CAPS? NO ONE HERE IS BLIND DUDE! :rolleyes:

YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!
Anyways, I need help. I'm about to finish AC Unity (Sequence 12 mission 3 and spoiler warning if you've not completed the game yet). Not gonna play Dead kings. So since this is my last mission in Unity (Will delete the game after the ending) I need advice in what way should I finish this mission? Full blown stealth? Ghost, killing no one, never seen (clean hands) ? Angry dude, kill everyone (avenge De La Sierre) and confront Germain ? How?
I need to make this mission a memorable event in my life of AC Unity.? After you reply, I'll do that mission. So pls reply quick...

VestigialLlama4
04-17-2015, 06:42 PM
So since this is my last mission in Unity (Will delete the game after the ending) I need advice in what way should I finish this mission? Full blown stealth? Ghost, killing no one, never seen (clean hands) ? Angry dude, kill everyone (avenge De La Sierre) and confront Germain ? How?
I need to make this mission a memorable event in my life of AC Unity.? After you reply, I'll do that mission. So pls reply quick...

You can't ghost the final mission. It's a boss fight, and boss rules apply.

Defalt221
04-17-2015, 06:45 PM
You can't ghost the final mission. It's a boss fight, and boss rules apply.

I meant the section where you've to get to his (Germain's) castle. There are hundreds of guards roaming around. How should I proceed?

VestigialLlama4
04-17-2015, 06:55 PM
I meant the section where you've to get to his (Germain's) castle. There are hundreds of guards roaming around. How should I proceed?

Fighting takes time, as you know. It's not that hard to get to where he is. I'd suggest a speedy run. Go hell-for-leather to the top, and get it done.

Defalt221
04-17-2015, 07:02 PM
Fighting takes time, as you know. It's not that hard to get to where he is. I'd suggest a speedy run. Go hell-for-leather to the top, and get it done.

Alright. Here goes! Thanks.