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loomer979
04-10-2015, 08:02 PM
Hey everyone, apologies for the delay in getting this released but here is the podcast with Dead Kings writer (and one of the initial Unity writers) Jeffrey Yohalem! I highly recommend listening to the entire thing as we talk about more than just Dead Kings and there's lots of interesting bits of trivia and lore teases throughout.

Jeffrey previously wrote AC Brotherhood, The Lost Archive, and all the AC2/ACB glyphs among other things.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rt9q3F1JS7E

Topic timestamps (these are clickable in the YouTube video description):

0:00 - Intro / How did Dead Kings come about?
4:32 - Any hidden secrets the community missed in Dead Kings?
5:50 - A discussion of the original glyphs and Unity's glyphs
16:28 - What is the Piece of eden that Arno finds in Dead Kings?
18:55 - How is Arno able to work the Piece of Eden?
19:34 - Who is the new Al Mualim?
20:45 - Which time period of Egypt is most exciting to Jeffrey?
21:20 - Who is Lady Eve from Dead Kings?
22:10 - Discussion of some of the initial story ideas for Unity
34:36 - Arno and Leon (and more initial ideas for Unity's story)
44:23 - What was Jeffrey's favorite part of Dead Kings?
45:21 - Anything about Subject 16 fans may have missed?
46:00 - Napoleon in Unity vs Dead Kings
50:33 - The fake Elise in Dead Kings, and having a prominent child character in the game
57:10 - Anything Jeffrey wants to take from Dead Kings into future games?
1:00:53 - Arno rejoining the Brotherhood
1:02:58 - Arno and "Requiescat in pace"
1:03:34 - How did Jeffrey get involved with Assassin's Creed?
1:05:03 - Would Jeffrey want to write a main AC game again, and what location/time period?
1:06:48 - What's next for Jeffrey / Goodbyes

EmptyCrustacean
04-10-2015, 08:42 PM
Very, very uncomfortable interview.
There's a defensiveness from the writer that's really off putting. His inability to accept that people hated the poor writing of Unity is laughable - saying that the only reason why people hated the story is because they couldn't separate it from the technical flaws of the game itself. A lot of people didn't like AC1's gameplay. You know why it's so cherished? Because people LOVED the story. It was innovative, strange, unique, thoughtful, excellent dialogue and characters. It was like playing a movie, to the point where the gameplay almost didn't matter. Unity has none of that. It's a terrible cliche revenge story with a shallow b plot love story to boot. With characters that are as nonsensical, weak, hollow and contradictory as their motivations. And once again, an Assassin protagonist that isn't actually an Assassin. That has nothing to do with pre-patch drama.

And I hope whole "people leave" comment wasn't a dig at her Oneness that is Jade Raymond.

loomer979
04-10-2015, 09:17 PM
Very, very uncomfortable interview.
There's a defensiveness from the writer that's really off putting...

I guess that's your opinion but I can tell you from my perspective the interview was never uncomfortable for any of us, and the only moment I would call even remotely defensive is the 5 minute span you reference about Unity's story and it's pre-patch state.

IMO it's disingenuous to open with such a broad statement when you didn't even listen to the entire podcast.

"And I hope whole "people leave" comment wasn't a dig at her Oneness that is Jade Raymond."

There was nothing in the interview related to Jade, or even leaving Ubisoft. He's talking about how people join and leave projects, just like how he left Unity to go write Child of Light.

VestigialLlama4
04-10-2015, 09:35 PM
Hey thank you for asking him my question (46:00) and mentioning my name. Much appreciated.

Sorry my name was a mouthful. I didn't choose it, it was this random tag generated by XBOX360 and I didn't know how to change it at the time and then I logged on to Ubisoft via my Xbox account.

loomer979
04-10-2015, 09:46 PM
Hey thank you for asking him my question (46:00) and mentioning my name. Much appreciated.

Sorry my name was a mouthful. I didn't choose it, it was this random tag generated by XBOX360 and I didn't know how to change it at the time and then I logged on to Ubisoft via my Xbox account.

Haha, no problem at all and thanks for asking the question :)

VoXngola
04-10-2015, 10:02 PM
Very, very uncomfortable interview.
There's a defensiveness from the writer that's really off putting. His inability to accept that people hated the poor writing of Unity is laughable - saying that the only reason why people hated the story is because they couldn't separate it from the technical flaws of the game itself. A lot of people didn't like AC1's gameplay. You know why it's so cherished? Because people LOVED the story. It was innovative, strange, unique, thoughtful, excellent dialogue and characters. It was like playing a movie, to the point where the gameplay almost didn't matter. Unity has none of that. It's a terrible cliche revenge story with a shallow b plot love story to boot. With characters that are as nonsensical, weak, hollow and contradictory as their motivations. And once again, an Assassin protagonist that isn't actually an Assassin. That has nothing to do with pre-patch drama.

And I hope whole "people leave" comment wasn't a dig at her Oneness that is Jade Raymond.

I share your sentiment, but let's be honest here. You can't expect him, an Ubiemployee, to badmouth their own games.

harsab
04-10-2015, 10:04 PM
Extremely good interview Loomer, you always ask the questions we fans are wondering & you always get the answers out of them somehow. I Don't know anyone else who goes to those lengths to get the answers we want, even though they may not always give a straight answer we always get something to feast on!

Thank you Loomer!!

RA503
04-10-2015, 10:10 PM
The Eve part...

I love whem someone ask things to the devs that we know they don't can respond,because a lack of reply is very expressive for us in this case.
That red violin part,maybe the pieces of eden register the memory of everyone who touch it...

EmptyCrustacean
04-10-2015, 10:10 PM
I guess that's your opinion but I can tell you from my perspective the interview was never uncomfortable for any of us, and the only moment I would call even remotely defensive is the 5 minute span you reference about Unity's story and it's pre-patch state.

IMO it's disingenuous to open with such a broad statement when you didn't even listen to the entire podcast.

"And I hope whole "people leave" comment wasn't a dig at her Oneness that is Jade Raymond."

There was nothing in the interview related to Jade, or even leaving Ubisoft. He's talking about how people join and leave projects, just like how he left Unity to go write Child of Light.

Do you honestly think that every person ever will listen to an entire podcast ever? Or do you accept that a big proportion of fans won't sit through the entire podcast because there are only certain aspects they're interested in dependin on the individual? I listened to the parts I was interested in and was very disappointed especially as AC Brotherhood is one of my faves in the franchise. From the 4 clips I did listen to:

Which time period of Egypt is most exciting to Jeffrey?
Discussion of some of the initial story ideas for Unity
Arno and Leon (and more initial ideas for Unity's story)
50:33 - The fake Elise in Dead Kings, and having a prominent child character in the game

he came across as unlikeable in all of them. Will also watch some other parts I'm interested in but I doubt my opinion will change.

loomer979
04-10-2015, 10:23 PM
Do you honestly think that every person ever will listen to an entire podcast ever? Or do you accept that a big proportion of fans won't sit through the entire podcast because there are only certain aspects they're interested in dependin on the individual? I listened to the parts I was interested in and was very disappointed especially as AC Brotherhood is one of my faves in the franchise. From the 4 clips I did listen to:

Which time period of Egypt is most exciting to Jeffrey?
Discussion of some of the initial story ideas for Unity
Arno and Leon (and more initial ideas for Unity's story)
50:33 - The fake Elise in Dead Kings, and having a prominent child character in the game

he came across as unlikeable in all of them. Will also watch some other parts I'm interested in but I doubt my opinion will change.

Of course I don't expect everyone to listen to all parts of a podcast all the time. Nor do I expect everyone to find Jeffrey likeable. But I do think (like I said earlier) that shooting off a comment declaring the entire interview as "Very, very uncomfortable" is pretty disingenuous when it's clear to me (but not necessarily to other people) that you only listened to a small fraction of the whole thing.

harsab
04-10-2015, 10:27 PM
Near the end? is Jeffrey implying that he's writing Victory???? omg? (this is such a crazy speculation) but still!!!

VestigialLlama4
04-10-2015, 10:34 PM
Near the end? is Jeffrey implying that he's writing Victory???? omg? (this is such a crazy speculation) but still!!!

He's being cheeky, you know that "leak"-I-can't-talk-about-but-I-am-talking-about anyway.

Overall its a good interview, I only wish I knew he wrote the general structure for UNITY because I would have asked more questions. I kept it specific to Dead Kings. I am grateful that he's come forward and talked though, none of the other developers who worked on UNITY have given a single post-launch interview or Q&A, which all developers on earlier titles had done.

loomer979
04-10-2015, 10:39 PM
He's being cheeky, you know that "leak"-I-can't-talk-about-but-I-am-talking-about anyway.

Overall its a good interview, I only wish I knew he wrote the general structure for UNITY because I would have asked more questions. I kept it specific to Dead Kings. I am grateful that he's come forward and talked though, none of the other developers who worked on UNITY have given a single post-launch interview or Q&A, which all developers on earlier titles had done.

I'm planning an episode with Travis Stout, who was the lead writer for Unity. It's just fallen by the wayside a little bit as work has been crazy and I also moved apartments. And yeah, I had no idea Jeffrey was involved the main story for Unity until he mentioned it during the podcast.

Edit: forgot that I also want to read the novelization for Unity before interviewing Travis, since that apparently expands on Elise's character and the main story a LOT. That's part of why I did the Dead Kings story interview before the Unity one.

EmptyCrustacean
04-10-2015, 10:45 PM
Of course I don't expect everyone to listen to all parts of a podcast all the time. Nor do I expect everyone to find Jeffrey likeable. But I do think (like I said earlier) that shooting off a comment declaring the entire interview as "Very, very uncomfortable" is pretty disingenuous when it's clear to me (but not necessarily to other people) that you only listened to a small fraction of the whole thing.

You're being pedantic. Would you have preferred that I just said "the sections I listened to made for uncomfortable listening and the writer comes across as a very defensive in them"? Because that doesn't sound much better, does it?

Yeah, just listened to 'Arno rejoining Brotherhood' where he more or less avoids answering the big jump in a round-about PR way.
I'm done screwing about this. My opinion hasn't changed and I don't have to listen to the whole thing to get the bad taste out of my mouth from hearing his comments.

ETA: You don't need to listen to an entire podcast to get the full picture unless the entire podcast is about ONE topic. These were mini topics in themselves which I listened to in their entirety so your point is invalid.

loomer979
04-10-2015, 10:50 PM
Would you have preferred that I just said "the sections I listened to made for uncomfortable listening and the writer comes across as a very defensive in them"? Because that doesn't sound much better, does it?

Right cause that's the only way to phrase something like that.

"I'm done screwing about this"

Bye bye.

EmptyCrustacean
04-10-2015, 11:07 PM
Right cause that's the only way to phrase something like that.

"I'm done screwing about this"

Bye bye.

You have an attitude problem and I can tell you're not used to taking as much as you give. You and the interviewee are well matched. Bye bye indeed.

D.I.D.
04-10-2015, 11:17 PM
You have an attitude problem

And the award for Blatant Lack Of Self-Awareness goes to...

m4r-k7
04-10-2015, 11:19 PM
He is definitely the writer for Victory! He basically said he is working on a main entry and said Victorian London is his dream setting aha, definitely a hint there!

I thought the darker tone of Dead Kings would resonate with the dark tone of Victorian London.

EmptyCrustacean
04-10-2015, 11:22 PM
And the award for Blatant Lack Of Self-Awareness goes to...

It really annoys me when people use the word 'blatant' incorrectly because it implies they don't know what the word means.

Blatant means 'unashamedly' or done in a way that is open and shows one doesn't care who knows.
So if someone lacks self awareness i.e. someone doesn't even know how they're coming across then it can't be blatant, can it...

Namikaze_17
04-10-2015, 11:26 PM
He is definitely the writer for Victory! He basically said he is working on a main entry and said Victorian London is his dream setting aha, definitely a hint there!

I thought the darker tone of Dead Kings would resonate with the dark tone of Victorian London.

Hm, interesting.

I enjoyed Dead Kings, so I would like to see what he can do if he is indeed the writer.

loomer979
04-10-2015, 11:29 PM
It really annoys me when people use the word 'blatant' incorrectly because it implies they don't know what the word means.

Blatant means 'unashamedly' or done in a way that is open and shows one doesn't care who knows.
So if someone lacks self awareness i.e. someone doesn't even know how they're coming across then it can't be blatant, can it...

Seems a bit pedantic. Also, weren't you leaving? Looks like you might have trouble taking what you give.

EmptyCrustacean
04-10-2015, 11:35 PM
Seems a bit pedantic. Also, weren't you leaving? Looks like you might have trouble taking what you give.

Ooh, someone's sensitive.
And, um, no, I was leaving you, LOL! There is still great discussion to be had here. Just not with you.

Jexx21
04-11-2015, 01:59 AM
Sometimes I shower.

SixKeys
04-11-2015, 03:51 AM
Awesome podcast, Loomer! Definitely one of the best you've ever done. :) It was very interesting to hear about the changes Unity's story underwent and the development of the DLC.

I have no idea where some people are getting the impression that Yohalem was anything but polite in the interview. He never said anything that could be construed as dismissive or hostile. I appreciated his honest answers (regarding the things he was allowed to talk about), like he openly admitted that some of the script changes and editing decisions were due to budget constraints and people coming and going from the production team.

Altair1789
04-11-2015, 04:25 AM
Sometimes I shower.

sometimes

Great podcast Loomer :) Addressed a lot of what I was wondering about and gave some interesting hints for future games

Shahkulu101
04-11-2015, 04:32 AM
Wait what? Yohalem was the main writer for Unity and left to make Child of Light? Interesting.

Haven't listened but this podcast shall be very good indeed.

EDIT: Listening now, really interesting that Arno might have died at the ending - now that would have daring and unique.

VestigialLlama4
04-11-2015, 06:48 AM
EDIT: Listening now, really interesting that Arno might have died at the ending - now that would daring and unique.

Yeah "would have".


I have no idea where some people are getting the impression that Yohalem was anything but polite in the interview. He never said anything that could be construed as dismissive or hostile. I appreciated his honest answers (regarding the things he was allowed to talk about), like he openly admitted that some of the script changes and editing decisions were due to budget constraints and people coming and going from the production team.

I personally hate Unity with the fire of a thousand suns and even I thought he was a very generous interviewee. He also had solid reasons for not discussing stuff in detail, pointing out how self-defeating the "What-Could-Have-Been" fallacy is and that "the final game is the game" is something I respect even if I don't think the "final game" is all that good. Besides, he's an employee for Ubisoft, they do sign non-disclosure contracts and the like, that he still answered a lot and took time out is great. Don't get what people felt by saying he was hostile. If he was hostile, there wouldn't be an interview with a fan website, I mean this isn't promotional interviews or press conferences where they have no choice but to be interviewed, this is them taking time out and talking with fans.

But you know the "people coming and going from the production team" is as close as we will get to what the problem with the game's development was. Amancio came very late in development from what I gathered and didn't add a great deal to the story.

Shahkulu101
04-11-2015, 07:04 AM
Finished listening - great podcast.

That Victory tease, though - glad I asked that question... ;)

Mr.Black24
04-11-2015, 07:29 AM
12:29 "If you have a scene that exists for no reason, then it shouldn't be in the play"

You mean like the entirety of Unity?
But in all seriousness, great podcast though.

LoyalACFan
04-11-2015, 08:23 AM
He is definitely the writer for Victory! He basically said he is working on a main entry and said Victorian London is his dream setting aha, definitely a hint there!

I thought the darker tone of Dead Kings would resonate with the dark tone of Victorian London.

Maybe it's just me, but I didn't think Dead Kings was dark AT ALL. The location was, sure, but a gloomy locale + a moody poorly-groomed protagonist =/= "dark." In fact I thought it was pretty goofy if I'm being honest. The whole dynamic of Arno and Leon teaming up to take down that cornball Captain Rose character might as well have been a Scooby-Doo and Scrappy-Doo cartoon, just with blood and swearing.

VestigialLlama4
04-11-2015, 08:33 AM
Maybe it's just me, but I didn't think Dead Kings was dark AT ALL. The location was, sure, but a gloomy locale + a moody poorly-groomed protagonist =/= "dark." In fact I thought it was pretty goofy if I'm being honest. The whole dynamic of Arno and Leon teaming up to take down that cornball Captain Rose character might as well have been a Scooby-Doo and Scrappy-Doo cartoon, just with blood and swearing.

And you know its set in a mine...Captain Rose is the Miner Forty Niner.

D.I.D.
04-11-2015, 10:23 AM
It really annoys me when people use the word 'blatant' incorrectly because it implies they don't know what the word means.

Blatant means 'unashamedly' or done in a way that is open and shows one doesn't care who knows.
So if someone lacks self awareness i.e. someone doesn't even know how they're coming across then it can't be blatant, can it...

Jesus wept. It's blatant to me and everyone else at the awards ceremony, chum. Stop digging, ffs.

SixKeys
04-11-2015, 11:59 AM
A few more notes:

I found Jeffrey's take on recurring themes interesting (like he mentions Spielberg having sort of an "obsession" with parent/child relationships), considering one of his ideas for Dead Kings was having Arno chase the Elise-lookalike multiple times, instead of just once. It instantly reminded me of the Cristina missions in ACB where the loading screen features Ezio chasing after Cristina's ghost, who always stays just out of reach. Yohalem was the writer for both scenarios.

Also thumbs up to Loomer and his co-host for not being too softball with the questions. They didn't dance around the fact that Unity's overall reception has been abysmal, but still maintained a courteous tone throughout the interview. And Jeffrey seemed to take it in stride, not badmouthing the company but also not trying to put a PR spin on it. He just said "the game is what it is" which I think is a good answer. This kind of honesty between interviewers and developers is so rare, since most of the time we only get to hear from them around a new game's release when everyone is in full-on PR mode. Thank you, Loomer, for asking questions fans actually care about. :)

EmptyCrustacean
04-11-2015, 12:02 PM
Jesus wept. It's blatant to me and everyone else at the awards ceremony, chum. Stop digging, ffs.

The only person who is digging is the poster that is making himself/herself look increasingly stupid by demonstrating you don't know what 'blatant' means lol.
It does not mean 'obvious'. It means done in a way which shows one does not care who sees/knows.
Therefore 'blatant lack of self awareness' does not make sense and is a misuse of the word. It's almost an oxymoron haha
Ask your English teacher once the half term is up.

SixKeys
04-11-2015, 12:10 PM
Jesus guys, take your foreplay to PM already.

m4r-k7
04-11-2015, 12:23 PM
Maybe it's just me, but I didn't think Dead Kings was dark AT ALL. The location was, sure, but a gloomy locale + a moody poorly-groomed protagonist =/= "dark." In fact I thought it was pretty goofy if I'm being honest. The whole dynamic of Arno and Leon teaming up to take down that cornball Captain Rose character might as well have been a Scooby-Doo and Scrappy-Doo cartoon, just with blood and swearing.

Sorry, I mean't to say the setting itself :) Like the atmosphere in general

Altair1789
04-11-2015, 02:45 PM
12:29 "If you have a scene that exists for no reason, then it shouldn't be in the play"

You mean like the entirety of Unity?
But in all seriousness, great podcast though.

Lol, that's a pretty good point I wish they considered earlier. I'm guessing that the decision of whether or not to further the overarching narrative at all isn't up to the writers, I think they have someone who basically maps out general directions of the games

Xstantin
04-11-2015, 06:11 PM
Could be cool if Arno died imo

Alphacos007
04-11-2015, 07:26 PM
Hah! I said that Arno's artifact was an Apple. It was completely identic, except for the size. It's Napoleon's apple after all :D

And nice tease for future lore, very cool podcast.

Shahkulu101
04-11-2015, 07:36 PM
I'm surprised some people thought it wasn't an apple? Hell else could it be? :p

I hope we see it in future. In Egypt. In a Napoleon game - Arno wouldn't necessarily have to be the protagonist but the game would definitely need to show what Arno and Napoleon got up to. Unity leaves far too many gaps between those two.

Farlander1991
04-11-2015, 07:47 PM
I'm surprised some people thought it wasn't an apple? Hell else could it be? :p

Well, people thought it was an apple, then Jeffrey said it wasn't, so people were like, 'what is it then? Huh? Eh? Wha?' Jeffrey mentions this situation in the podcast.

I wonder though, if Napoleon's apple was in the tomb... then what does he find in King's office?

Shahkulu101
04-11-2015, 07:52 PM
Well, people thought it was an apple, then Jeffrey said it wasn't, so people were like, 'what is it then? Huh? Eh? Wha?' Jeffrey mentions this situation in the podcast.

I wonder though, if Napoleon's apple was in the tomb... then what does he find in King's office?

Another thing I hope is addressed...all in due time I suppose but I'm not that optimistic...

Farlander1991
04-11-2015, 07:59 PM
Another thing I hope is addressed...all in due time I suppose but I'm not that optimistic...

I just checked the Wikia, and there it said that he found the key to the tomb... which I think would make sense, though I'm not sure it was hinted at anywhere. I think we were supposed to think that it was the apple O_o

loomer979
04-11-2015, 08:03 PM
I just checked the Wikia, and there it said that he found the key to the tomb... which I think would make sense, though I'm not sure it was hinted at anywhere. I think we were supposed to think that it was the apple O_o

Yes, it goes by quickly in the podcast but Jeffrey does mention that it's the key that Napoleon finds in the palace.

I-Like-Pie45
04-11-2015, 08:07 PM
Well, people thought it was an apple, then Jeffrey said it wasn't, so people were like, 'what is it then? Huh? Eh? Wha?' Jeffrey mentions this situation in the podcast.

I wonder though, if Napoleon's apple was in the tomb... then what does he find in King's office?

The Fapple of Eden - a special POE capable of breaking the boundaries of Meta itself.

And you, Farlander, have just turned the page and doomed us all!

NAPOLEON IS COMING.

Shahkulu101
04-11-2015, 08:11 PM
I just checked the Wikia, and there it said that he found the key to the tomb... which I think would make sense, though I'm not sure it was hinted at anywhere. I think we were supposed to think that it was the apple O_o

Oh that's cool, and yeah I never thought it was anything but the apple - it's a pretty elaborate key that's for sure. :p

Alphacos007
04-11-2015, 08:14 PM
A lot of people though it was something else (and even critisized me when I said it was an Apple) because it is much smaller and somehow controlled the bats instead of the enemies.

Anyways, I really love the part where he talks about the red violin thing. In the movie, you follow many persons in different periods of time, to see where the hell the violin went. And the DeMolay thing was meant to be part of a much bigger plot that had to do with that movie. Then we have the server bridges in different periods of time in Paris. God, this would have been a much better if it had followed the initial story and had followed different assassins through Paris in different periods of time to find where the sword of even was. Now I'm mad at Ubi and Alex to have changed that to what we have right now lol.

Farlander1991
04-11-2015, 08:19 PM
God, this would have been a much better if it had followed the initial story and had followed different assassins through Paris in different periods of time to find where the sword of even was. Now I'm mad at Ubi and Alex to have changed that to what we have right now lol.

I'm sorry, but it's easy to say that kind of stuff when speaking of just concepts and outlines ;) :p We can't know if it would've been better (or worse), because that's not all that defines the final result. Heck, I would say that's just the smallest part of the final result.

I think this is why Jeffrey didn't want to talk about early ideas that much, since it's easy for our imagination to take control without considering everything that goes into creating a game and going, 'oh that would've been so much better!', even though in reality, who the heck knows? Nobody.

Shahkulu101
04-11-2015, 08:25 PM
A lot of people though it was something else (and even critisized me when I said it was an Apple) because it is much smaller and somehow controlled the bats instead of the enemies.

Anyways, I really love the part where he talks about the red violin thing. In the movie, you follow many persons in different periods of time, to see where the hell the violin went. And the DeMolay thing was meant to be part of a much bigger plot that had to do with that movie. Then we have the server bridges in different periods of time in Paris. God, this would have been a much better if it had followed the initial story and had followed different assassins through Paris in different periods of time to find where the sword of even was. Now I'm mad at Ubi and Alex to have changed that to what we have right now lol.

That sort of made me think that Yohalem may have been the first to come up with the Sage concept and then it was used in AC4, but who knows.

Buy yeah I'm with Farlander on this one. It sounds better sure, but who knows how it would work out in practice. This is why Jeffrey was tentative about revealing details regarding what Unity was going to be like or what was cut. :rolleyes:

Alphacos007
04-11-2015, 08:36 PM
I'm sorry, but it's easy to say that kind of stuff when speaking of just concepts and outlines ;) :p We can't know if it would've been better (or worse), because that's not all that defines the final result. Heck, I would say that's just the smallest part of the final result.

I think this is why Jeffrey didn't want to talk about early ideas that much, since it's easy for our imagination to take control without considering everything that goes into creating a game and going, 'oh that would've been so much better!', even though in reality, who the heck knows? Nobody.

Well, maybe it wouldn't be better for everyone, but I can tell you for sure that it would be for me. First, the DeMolay mission is the best one in the game by far for me. Second, I always wanted to play on the same place in more than one time period. And last but not least, the story would be about a piece of eden and not about a clichè love story. As bad as it could turn out, would still be much better than the story we got. Again, that is for me, not for everyone else, after all there are people who actually enjoy Unity's story.

VestigialLlama4
04-12-2015, 05:14 AM
Well, people thought it was an apple, then Jeffrey said it wasn't, so people were like, 'what is it then? Huh? Eh? Wha?' Jeffrey mentions this situation in the podcast.

I wonder though, if Napoleon's apple was in the tomb... then what does he find in King's office?

Maybe what Napoleon found in The King's offices was that little key thing he used in the Saint Denis First Civ Tomb. I think where Napoleon DID find his Apple was in Egypt, it is after returning from Egypt that he became Dictator and later Emperor of France.

The more important decision is Yohalem telling them to hide what Napoleon looks at in the box. That way if people didn't play Dead Kings or if they never revisit Napoleon, audiences can infer it is an Apple as shorthand and move on. Ultimately it doesn't matter when and which Apple Napoleon took but that he did find an Apple eventually. Maybe when Napoleon invaded Egypt, he tracked down "Egyptian Al Mualim" and stole the Saint Denis Apple back, or he discovered a new Apple in one of the tombs he went spelunking down in Egypt.

All of which leads to me to believe that Napoleon would have been an awesome AC protagonist to play, and you have a nice start and stop point, go from "soldier to general to dictator". Instead of Assassin's Creed Chronicles, they should do Assassin's Creed Histories and give us playable historical figures finally (they had planned a Mary Read DLC after all for Black Flag). As for genetic material, Napoleon had one legitimate kid who died young and childless, but he had illegitimate kids too, so you can definitely use that to get it, who knows maybe one of them is an asylum orderly named Fred.


Anyways, I really love the part where he talks about the red violin thing. In the movie, you follow many persons in different periods of time, to see where the hell the violin went. And the DeMolay thing was meant to be part of a much bigger plot that had to do with that movie. Then we have the server bridges in different periods of time in Paris. God, this would have been a much better if it had followed the initial story and had followed different assassins through Paris in different periods of time to find where the sword of even was. Now I'm mad at Ubi and Alex to have changed that to what we have right now lol.


I'm sorry, but it's easy to say that kind of stuff when speaking of just concepts and outlines ;) :p We can't know if it would've been better (or worse), because that's not all that defines the final result. Heck, I would say that's just the smallest part of the final result.

I think this is why Jeffrey didn't want to talk about early ideas that much, since it's easy for our imagination to take control without considering everything that goes into creating a game and going, 'oh that would've been so much better!', even though in reality, who the heck knows? Nobody.

I will say that I agree with where Yohalem comes from when he discusses why he doesn't want to fully describe his idea. Farlander1991 is right about the logisticial and technical issues that comes from such a concept - Multiple Maps, Shifting Architecture, A huge plethora of differently textured NPCs, Parkour gameplay in multiple eras - it would essentially be three or four games in one package. And of course, we don't have any idea how far this went from merely "shooting the breeze and coming up with crazy ideas" and Yohalem is very reluctant to talk about all that and I respect it.

Having said that, I think that they should have gone ahead and stuck to that idea. The best moments in UNITY are the ones not in French Revolutionary Paris, the developers had little love and understanding for the texture and nuances of the period and that makes sense considering that at its conception, the period was never more than a waystation to a long time-relay (a plot gimmick that is older than The Red Violin by the way, my favorite is the 1937 French Film The Pearls of the Crown, available on the Criterion Collection). The Time anomalies with all those different monuments were the signs of the old AC crazy and many people online and on these forums said that the game should have been entirely about hoping around in Paris in different eras, in other words people picked up on the phantom concept of the game solely through the Remnants in the game. It would have been an experimental title certainly, very ambitious, and it probably would not be a very open world one but it would be vastly more interesting than the game we have now. Technical limitations are a real thing and one which developers will run into all the time, but that can't be an excuse to never try and do something radical.