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View Full Version : About attacking ships with the aid of the guns... and bomb delay



Platypus_1.JaVA
06-04-2004, 12:21 PM
I've recently read a book from a WWII pacific B-25 veteran. The book is called "Het vergeten squadron" (The forgotten squadron) from 'Rene Wittert' His squadron, NEIAF 18th, flew from diffrent bases in Australia and most of the time, they did anti-shipping patrols. The common practice was to attack ships, coming in really low. They would drop the bombs, with a 5 second fuse and suppressed the AA gunners on the ships with their forward armament. When the bombs hit the side of the ship, they would sink for five seconds and explode UNDER the ship, with the force of the water going up because of the explosion, the ship would be lifted out of the water and just break in two. Furthermore, small vessels would be sunk with the forward (the well known american .50 in batteries of up to 12!!) armament.

This is currently completely not possible in FB.

first: When you want to sink a ship with bombs, you need to set the bomb delay at 0 (zero) seconds.

second: suppressing AA gunners on ships is not possible right now.

So, we need to have two features added:

First: program the bomb-explosion-under-water so, the bombs would still do damage when they are allready bellow the surface.

Second: This might not be hard to program. Let the ship gunners ROF decrease to, for example, 50%, when you shoot at it with your forward armament.

These two features would certainly make attacking ships alot more realistic.

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge,
ye shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be measured
to you again.

Placed 3rd, with team, in the official european championship Il-2/FB

Platypus_1.JaVA
06-04-2004, 12:21 PM
I've recently read a book from a WWII pacific B-25 veteran. The book is called "Het vergeten squadron" (The forgotten squadron) from 'Rene Wittert' His squadron, NEIAF 18th, flew from diffrent bases in Australia and most of the time, they did anti-shipping patrols. The common practice was to attack ships, coming in really low. They would drop the bombs, with a 5 second fuse and suppressed the AA gunners on the ships with their forward armament. When the bombs hit the side of the ship, they would sink for five seconds and explode UNDER the ship, with the force of the water going up because of the explosion, the ship would be lifted out of the water and just break in two. Furthermore, small vessels would be sunk with the forward (the well known american .50 in batteries of up to 12!!) armament.

This is currently completely not possible in FB.

first: When you want to sink a ship with bombs, you need to set the bomb delay at 0 (zero) seconds.

second: suppressing AA gunners on ships is not possible right now.

So, we need to have two features added:

First: program the bomb-explosion-under-water so, the bombs would still do damage when they are allready bellow the surface.

Second: This might not be hard to program. Let the ship gunners ROF decrease to, for example, 50%, when you shoot at it with your forward armament.

These two features would certainly make attacking ships alot more realistic.

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge,
ye shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be measured
to you again.

Placed 3rd, with team, in the official european championship Il-2/FB

Doug_Thompson
06-04-2004, 12:40 PM
The bombers being discussed in that book are very heavily modified, and the modifications were field modifications.

It is true that forward-firing B-25 equipped with eight .50-cal guns could cause enormous damage. Pacific veterans talk of seeing troops on troop-ships blown spiraling into the air from the impact. However, could you sink a stoutly built destroyer just with gunfire? Not in one pass. Could you saw a wooden barge in half with such firepower? Most definitely.

As for skip-bombing, that was a highly specialized procedure that wasn't perfected in Europe, mainly because there weren't a super-abundance of targets. Interestly, though, the same British scientist who developed "dam busting" rigs was working on a round, spinnning "skip bomb" when the war ended.

-HH-Dubbo
06-04-2004, 01:00 PM
Good idea Platypus.

I don't know how hard the bomb feature would be, but the suppression by gunfire is a brilliant idea. (You should be able to take out some gun positions with that armament.)

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xenios
06-04-2004, 02:41 PM
This is an old gripe of mine. I was impressed with IL2 when it first came out because you could actually do skip bombing, but was disappointed to learn that the damage is backwards. A time fused bomb exploding under the ship should do more damage than a bomb hitting the side, but instead it does no damage. And worst of all, a 0 sec. fuse has the risk of damaging your plane in the explosion. (For that matter, a time fused bomb dropped from a dive should do more damage too, as it would pierce the deck and explode deep in the hull.)I hope they fix this.

Five seconds sounds like a really long fuse; a fast moving ship could sail past the blast area in that amount of time.

As for supressing AA on ships, I believe Luthier has already said that ships may have more complex damage models. This should mean that you can target individual guns and take them out, even if you can't sink the ship.

Gibbage1
06-04-2004, 02:44 PM
I think you will get all this in PF. I know that you can surpress AA fire on ships in PF since gunners are modeled. Also, in a few beta's skip bombing with 5 seconds was possible. I dont know why it was not in the final patch. Maybe they yanked it because of some on-line problems? Dunno.

But I have seen guncam footage of .50's going through the hull of large ships like destroyers and blowing them up. The bulletes can hit magizine batteries and such. Nasty stuff.

Gib

"Most P-39's were sent to the Russians - so I guess that was an American secret weapon against our Russian allies."

Stan Wood, P-38 pilot who also flew the P-39.

ruf9ii
06-04-2004, 11:58 PM
ATM in AEP bombs exploding underwater do do damage. they just dont do enough to damage boats. i was flying in he111 and dropped those 2 SC2000 with 0 fuse (trying to skip bomb). wasnt going fast enough tho and bombs just fell short and blew up in water, taking me with it (i was at about 50m alt, for some wierd reason...)
also, you can shoot the turrets and AA guns out of action on the larger ships. also you can damage ships with straffing. obviously not the tirpitz or anything. but the small PT boats can be done with MG, and u can take out a tanker with 30mm cannons, like the H5 on the ki84.

Platypus_1.JaVA
06-05-2004, 02:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ruf9ii:
ATM in AEP bombs exploding underwater do do damage. they just dont do enough to damage boats. i was flying in he111 and dropped those 2 SC2000 with 0 fuse (trying to skip bomb). wasnt going fast enough tho and bombs just fell short and blew up in water, taking me with it (i was at about 50m alt, for some wierd reason...)
also, you can shoot the turrets and AA guns out of action on the larger ships. also you can damage ships with straffing. obviously not the tirpitz or anything. but the small PT boats can be done with MG, and u can take out a tanker with 30mm cannons, like the H5 on the ki84.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do you mean that you allready are able to take out gunpositions in the currecnt 2.01 version?

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge,
ye shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be measured
to you again.

Placed 3rd, with team, in the official european championship Il-2/FB

Tater-SW-
06-05-2004, 09:14 AM
Yeah, you can strafe out gun positions now in AEP. It seems pretty hard, at leats with 50 cals (I made a mission where B-25Hs strafe some trawlers and they don't seem to have much luck).

We need more general superstructure fires, and frankly, perhaps a couple small "magic bullet" damage areas inside to represent magazine os ammo transport. We've all see the movies of ships getting hit in ammo stores and blowing apart, even from 50 cals.

tater