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View Full Version : The Splinter Cell team have got the right idea!



m4r-k7
04-09-2015, 06:38 PM
An article I came across about the next Splinter Cell. http://gamerant.com/next-gen-splinter-cell-game-different/

Its interesting, with the most interesting quote being from the animation director of Splinter cell saying

"We haven’t got the luxury of Assassin’s Creed where we know our formula; we’re still evolving… If you look at them, there’s no two Splinter Cells that are the same. They’ve all evolved and adapted. That, to me, is what makes it really exciting. We’re getting closer to what that game is, and maybe it isn’t necessarily about Splinter Cell being a 15-16 million Call of Duty-type best-seller. Maybe it’s just about it being the best Splinter Cell that it can be."

This is the right idea.

Shahkulu101
04-09-2015, 06:43 PM
Well with SCB having less than brilliant sales that direction has probably gone out the window.

Excited for the next Splinter Cell however, last one was brilliant.

Alphacos007
04-09-2015, 08:05 PM
I loved to have read this. I really liked Conviction, and Black List is really great too. Can't wait for the next one, I've been playing them since the very first.

EmptyCrustacean
04-09-2015, 08:31 PM
Wow so much back handed compliments!

Sushiglutton
04-09-2015, 09:34 PM
Hang on a sec. Is he saying that, for example, the difference between Conviction and Blacklist is bigger than then difference between Revelation and AC3? If so I strongly disagree. AC switches things up a fair bit. Problem is the quality of the execution both in terms of mechanics and content.

Blacklist has much better mechanics than AC.

LoyalACFan
04-09-2015, 09:38 PM
I would turn this statement on its head and say that AC doesn't have the luxury SC has, in that they get a few years in between releases to develop a relatively small, linear game. He sort of sounds like he's implying that the AC devs are just riding the gravy train, which I'm sure isn't the case at all. It's very difficult to innovate and iterate on fan feedback when the next game is already halfway done. I love both AC and SC, but I'm just saying. This felt a little snide to me.

(BTW I'm not sticking up for AC's yearly release cycle, just saying the devs have to work with the time they're given)

Sushiglutton
04-09-2015, 09:49 PM
(BTW I'm not sticking up for AC's yearly release cycle, just saying the devs have to work with the time they're given)

But they have 2423 different teams working in parallel. So each game has been developed for >135 years

LoyalACFan
04-09-2015, 09:53 PM
But they have 2423 different teams working in parallel. So each game has been developed for >135 years

:rolleyes:

Farlander1991
04-09-2015, 10:29 PM
IMO, if the core gameplay of the series would've been strong, yearly iterations (and therefore delayed feedback) wouldn't be much of a problem, since, well, the core gameplay would still be great.

The problem is, however, AC's core has never been really strong. It was alright (having quite a lot of untapped potential). And starting with Unity, it's shaping up to be something really good, and my only hope is that they don't pull an AC2 in a sense that they totally change the values of what they're changing/iterating on and core principles of the experience. But if the core will keep getting improved (and, honestly, Unity did most of the work, the shining up and polishing is possible with yearly releases), then in the next couple years we'll just keep getting games that are better than the previous ones, and then, woa-la. Strong foundation established.

AntiChrist7
04-10-2015, 08:50 AM
If Unity had the same stealth mechanics and AI from Blacklist (and not just a half-arsed attempt at it), I would probably have rated the game an 85 instead of a 70.

Im replaying Unity atm to get a 100% synch. Yesterday I spent 15 minutes to get a guard come over to a haybail to hidespot kill him (as side objective). Cherry bombs didnt lure him, and when he saw my silhouet he ran the other way....

And in the mission after that, guards where constantly being alerted through walls....Not to mention the stupid "lets hide around a corner and assassinate the five guys running in one by one

Defalt221
04-10-2015, 09:37 AM
Well with SCB having less than brilliant sales that direction has probably gone out the window.

Excited for the next Splinter Cell however, last one was brilliant.

Devs of AC games should also try a great deal of new things in Victory. A great deal. Not just one or two bbig feature in Victory. But TONS to the level of AC2>>>AC1 or like how many new things they added in AC3.

Farlander1991
04-10-2015, 10:56 AM
Devs of AC games should also try a great deal of new things in Victory. A great deal. Not just one or two bbig feature in Victory. But TONS to the level of AC2>>>AC1 or like how many new things they added in AC3.

Please no.

I don't want tons new things until the core of the game is top-notch (especially not like in AC3, where there's tons of new things all of which had potential, but ultimately unpolished and most of them useless).

The last thing AC devs should do now is trying to distract players from the problems in the core gameplay with new shiny stuff.

LoyalACFan
04-10-2015, 11:32 AM
Please no.

I don't want tons new things until the core of the game is top-notch (especially not like in AC3, where there's tons of new things all of which had potential, but ultimately unpolished and most of them useless).

The last thing AC devs should do now is trying to distract players from the problems in the core gameplay with new shiny stuff.

This.

TBH I think they should actually trim a lot of the fat from Unity and focus their efforts on the main sequences. Unity tried to trick the player into thinking it was longer than it actually was by having the usual 12 sequences, but if you take a step back and look at it, it only had 30 missions not counting the server bridges and prologue (for reference, AC2 had 71, ACB had 52, ACR had 56, AC3 had 46, and AC4 had 45). Granted, they were some of the best missions in the series design-wise, but each one contained no more story content than a typical mission from the Ezio or Kenway sagas. I felt like I barely even knew the characters before the game was over, and half the targets were dead before I even memorized their names.

But dear God, did we ever get a ton of Paris Stories. 75 to be exact (counting social club and Cafe missions since they're literally the exact same thing). I could have easily forgone ALL of these if it meant twice as many main story missions.

Shahkulu101
04-10-2015, 11:42 AM
Please no.

I don't want tons new things until the core of the game is top-notch (especially not like in AC3, where there's tons of new things all of which had potential, but ultimately unpolished and most of them useless).

The last thing AC devs should do now is trying to distract players from the problems in the core gameplay with new shiny stuff.

This. If they ditch all the progress Unity has made in developing the core mechanics and just add in a bunch of distracting 'fun' features and revert to the easy gameplay of AC1-Rogue to mask the problems, I'm out.

Seriously if the gameplay trailer shows any sign of that I'm hitting the bottle.

Farlander1991
04-10-2015, 12:26 PM
This.

TBH I think they should actually trim a lot of the fat from Unity and focus their efforts on the main sequences. Unity tried to trick the player into thinking it was longer than it actually was by having the usual 12 sequences, but if you take a step back and look at it, it only had 30 missions not counting the server bridges and prologue (for reference, AC2 had 71, ACB had 52, ACR had 56, AC3 had 46, and AC4 had 45). Granted, they were some of the best missions in the series design-wise, but each one contained no more story content than a typical mission from the Ezio or Kenway sagas. I felt like I barely even knew the characters before the game was over, and half the targets were dead before I even memorized their names.

But dear God, did we ever get a ton of Paris Stories. 75 to be exact (counting social club and Cafe missions since they're literally the exact same thing). I could have easily forgone ALL of these if it meant twice as many main story missions.

Regarding mission number, while I do think Unity did a poor job with side-missions narratvie wise (and there's too many of them), but regarding the length of main campaign itself, you might be interested in this post. (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1009010-After-I-saw-this-I-want-to-play-AC3-AGAIN?p=10676013#post10676013)

And regarding the "half the targets were dead before I even memorized their names.", AC2 has this problem as well.

Honestly, I think the big problem is not necessarily the length of the main campaign of ACU, but that side missions weren't utilized to flesh out the cast.

LoyalACFan
04-10-2015, 01:45 PM
And regarding the "half the targets were dead before I even memorized their names.", AC2 has this problem as well.

Fair enough, but AC2's targets were just lame in general. Basically just fodder to provide some fun assassination missions and push Ezio's character development forward. Whereas in Unity, the targets are each supposed to be part of a grand, mysterious plot that's unfolding as the story progresses, but they're given even less dialogue/screentime than AC2's targets. It just felt like they should have been fleshed out more.


Honestly, I think the big problem is not necessarily the length of the main campaign of ACU, but that side missions weren't utilized to flesh out the cast.

I was kind of thinking about this after playing SC Blacklist (which I just recently bought, I was a bit late to the Splinter Cell party). You know how each of the crew members gives you a chain of side missions devoted to a certain playstyle (e.g. Grimsdottir gives you ghost missions, Charlie gives you assault missions, and so on)? I was thinking something similar could have been employed in Unity with the council members; they could have each had their own mini-campaign based on one of the main gameplay loops. One gives you parkour/infiltration missions, one gives you stealth missions, one gives you combat missions, and one gives you co-op. It would have been a nicer way to divvy up the side content rather than just "hi I'm random historical footnote #3413318, go fetch this for me."

But on the whole, I don't think side content would have solved Unity's narrative problem, especially since the whole thing is supposed to hinge on Arno and Elise's relationship, but Elise disappears for huge chunks of the game. I get that the relationship was written to be tenuous and on-again-off-again, but we didn't even see them together enough for their connection to feel strong enough to be the vehicle for the entire plot. And having Elise randomly show up in some side missions would have felt even stranger.

Sushiglutton
04-10-2015, 02:55 PM
:rolleyes:

What can I say, I'm easily bored :p

Farlander1991
04-10-2015, 03:54 PM
Fair enough, but AC2's targets were just lame in general. Basically just fodder to provide some fun assassination missions and push Ezio's character development forward. Whereas in Unity, the targets are each supposed to be part of a grand, mysterious plot that's unfolding as the story progresses, but they're given even less dialogue/screentime than AC2's targets. It just felt like they should have been fleshed out more.

Well, I think that's part of the 'side mission' problem. Due to the nature of the narrative, you can't really have the Templar cast be on screen for a long time, otherwise the whole 'unraveling' part wouldn't work really well. But in side missions we could learn more about them and their plans, kind of like AC1 does it with their targets whose screen time is pretty much even less than those of ACU.

Regarding Elise, I think what would help here is a thing from AC3 that I honestly miss, and that's non-mission side conversations.

IMO there's enough action-based chemistry in ACU between Arno and Elise for it to work and be realistic and believable, however, one thing that people in love do (and, well, this is what they mostly do, to be honest) is, well... just talk and spend time together and whatnot.

Also, letters from Elise, while there's not many of them, I really like those, but I do believe that instead of just appearing in the room and an icon showing up, there should've been a specific way to get them, something that would require an action, to put it more in focus.

Defalt221
04-10-2015, 05:29 PM
This.

TBH I think they should actually trim a lot of the fat from Unity and focus their efforts on the main sequences. Unity tried to trick the player into thinking it was longer than it actually was by having the usual 12 sequences, but if you take a step back and look at it, it only had 30 missions not counting the server bridges and prologue (for reference, AC2 had 71, ACB had 52, ACR had 56, AC3 had 46, and AC4 had 45). Granted, they were some of the best missions in the series design-wise, but each one contained no more story content than a typical mission from the Ezio or Kenway sagas. I felt like I barely even knew the characters before the game was over, and half the targets were dead before I even memorized their names.

But dear God, did we ever get a ton of Paris Stories. 75 to be exact (counting social club and Cafe missions since they're literally the exact same thing). I could have easily forgone ALL of these if it meant twice as many main story missions.

Plus we didn't get to know much about our targets and other NPCs which is why the story felt short and unfocused.

Mr.Black24
04-10-2015, 05:45 PM
They need to make the overall lore and story better first. Its really crippling to play a game that has good mechanics/graphics, but fail story, like Unity. Not only that, but give off actual story payoffs, like I'm tired of crap open ended "endings" of stories to be considered "done" like Connor's and Shay's, leading you to something promising, but actually setting you in the middle of nowhere.

LoyalACFan
04-11-2015, 02:41 AM
Well, I think that's part of the 'side mission' problem. Due to the nature of the narrative, you can't really have the Templar cast be on screen for a long time, otherwise the whole 'unraveling' part wouldn't work really well. But in side missions we could learn more about them and their plans, kind of like AC1 does it with their targets whose screen time is pretty much even less than those of ACU.

But in AC1 you REALLY had a sense of who your target was by going through all of the investigations. Yeah, they were repetitive, but they put the story in focus. In ACU the targets are usually introduced in one mission (not counting Elise's party) and then immediately killed in the next. I'm not saying they should bring back the investigation structure, but they should at least add some more missions in between the introduction and the assassination for the story to feel more cohesive and for the assassination to feel more planned and rewarding.

Landruner
04-11-2015, 06:45 AM
If Unity had the same stealth mechanics and AI from Blacklist (and not just a half-arsed attempt at it), I would probably have rated the game an 85 instead of a 70.

Im replaying Unity atm to get a 100% synch. Yesterday I spent 15 minutes to get a guard come over to a haybail to hidespot kill him (as side objective). Cherry bombs didnt lure him, and when he saw my silhouet he ran the other way....

And in the mission after that, guards where constantly being alerted through walls....Not to mention the stupid "lets hide around a corner and assassinate the five guys running in one by one

Good point - the same situations as you described above made me almost quit the game full of rage each time it happened to me.
It looks like that the AI was only set up for focusing on the silhouettes and not really the lure (that most of the time was totally obsolete) - however: for some obscure reasons the guard(s) were effectively not always going after the silhouette and most of the time were turning back to them. Only after 3 to 5 times in trying to appeal their attention, they were finally reacting and starting their investigation toward the latest silhouette.

Anyhow ACU had been released unfinished and it is obvious that it is one of the part that needed more time and work.

Seriously, I don't get why so far no one from the Splinter Cell 's team had been ever involved in any AC?

LoyalACFan
04-11-2015, 08:09 AM
On a semi-related note; for God's sake, somebody please copy the whistle/distraction mechanics from Blacklist and paste it into AC. An Assassin should be able to attract targets without dropping a freaking cherry bomb at his feet. At least AC3/4/Rogue had a contextual whistle in hiding places, but it should be available all the time IMO.

Farlander1991
04-11-2015, 10:05 AM
But in AC1 you REALLY had a sense of who your target was by going through all of the investigations. Yeah, they were repetitive, but they put the story in focus. In ACU the targets are usually introduced in one mission (not counting Elise's party) and then immediately killed in the next. I'm not saying they should bring back the investigation structure, but they should at least add some more missions in between the introduction and the assassination for the story to feel more cohesive and for the assassination to feel more planned and rewarding.

But you also didn't HAVE to go through all of the investigations, and if you didn't, your information about the target was pretty basic just as it's in ACU. AC1 investigations are, in essence, side missions. There's just an additional gating mechanic that you have to complete a couple side missions before continuing with the main.

My point is, from the point of narrative structure of an open world game, basic doesn't necessarily mean 'bad'. The main campaign of ACU gives only basic information about the targets, that's true, but, that is also absolutely fine (in certain situations, not in the way the game is structured right now), - you don't NEED additional main mission between introduction and assassination. Side-missions are perfectly fine for getting the sense of who our targets really are.

Completing those missions can also add additional mod objectives into the assassination mission, thus bringing the incentive for the player to complete them, but it still would remain a side mission.

Sushiglutton
04-11-2015, 12:37 PM
On a semi-related note; for God's sake, somebody please copy the whistle/distraction mechanics from Blacklist and paste it into AC. An Assassin should be able to attract targets without dropping a freaking cherry bomb at his feet. At least AC3/4/Rogue had a contextual whistle in hiding places, but it should be available all the time IMO.

One really cool feature in SC was that if you used the attract too many times in an area the enemies caught on and exposed you. First time it happened it was a wtf moment, but then I realized it made a lot of sense.

SolidSage
04-11-2015, 08:03 PM
Seriously, I don't get why so far no one from the Splinter Cell 's team had been ever involved in any AC?

Jade Raymond (head of UbiTo during SCB development) was on AC1, Maxime Beland (SCC and SCB creative designer) was on AC1, and then Unity's coop stuff was built at UbiTo (home of SCB).
There's a lot of connection between the 2 titles.

Modern SC needs bigger maps, less linearity and content that can be accessed in more ways. AC needs deeper mechanics, better AI and stronger mission variety.