PDA

View Full Version : Is this vulching?



XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 12:28 AM
I was playing on a full real server where it had limited pilot lives, and aircraft. Whoever lost theirs first died it's a pretty popular server I'm sure some on you know which one I'm talking about.

Anyway I got one downed, and then went after another. After spraying him in his BF-109 with my MG's he started smoking, and did a cray emergency landing.
So I let him go figuring he's got to bail from the plane and head back up to clear my wingman. I got the guy off the wingman, and the wingman got the angle and shot him down. So I circle back around and the guy I smoked was taxiing back to his base. Well I said thats just not right flying or not I dive in on him, and hammer away with the P-39's big cannon. Which fixed his wagon so to speak.

Is that considered vulching though?

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 12:28 AM
I was playing on a full real server where it had limited pilot lives, and aircraft. Whoever lost theirs first died it's a pretty popular server I'm sure some on you know which one I'm talking about.

Anyway I got one downed, and then went after another. After spraying him in his BF-109 with my MG's he started smoking, and did a cray emergency landing.
So I let him go figuring he's got to bail from the plane and head back up to clear my wingman. I got the guy off the wingman, and the wingman got the angle and shot him down. So I circle back around and the guy I smoked was taxiing back to his base. Well I said thats just not right flying or not I dive in on him, and hammer away with the P-39's big cannon. Which fixed his wagon so to speak.

Is that considered vulching though?

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 12:33 AM
I'd say it is...


47|FC
http://rangerring.com/wwii/p-47.jpg




Message Edited on 09/15/0306:33PM by necrobaron

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 12:33 AM
to me, vulching is if u havent hit him once and his wheels are on the ground, and u shoot him. if ur after him, do considerable damage to him, then i think its stupid to let him get away just because he puts his gear down. so no i dont think it was vulching, even tho some people will disagree with me.

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 12:34 AM
Thats probably TX-OC3...and if it is then recently vulching has been allowed since the server runs more scenario like battles recently rather than just straight dogfighting.

In any case...vulching or no vulching, the fact is that the guy had his fight with you...crash landed in a rather lucky position and you had the opportunity to score a kill. I'd allow it...

http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/icefire/icefire_tempest.jpg
"Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few." - Winston Churchill

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 12:36 AM
Sure it is but there's nothing wrong with that in a scripted "war" server especially if it's not specified otherwise by the host.

In general I think vulching is fine (except maybe arcade setting DF servers).



<center>http://members.rogers.com/4xtreme/chbanner.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 12:38 AM
So vulching has been expanded in definition from stealing another player's kill, to scoring a victory on a defenseless aircraft? A Vulture doesn't attack the easiest target, it consumes the already doomed. I had assumed that vulching was the act of playing "Vulture" among other players- stealing their kills, in the manner of the vulture, a scavenger bird who eats offal and carcasses. I'm obviously wrong...

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 12:40 AM
Yeah,I like vulching. It's not fair,but hey,it happened in RL. My P-47 is my weapon of choice....

47|FC
http://rangerring.com/wwii/p-47.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 12:40 AM
i think it got its name from circling the airfield waiting for something to eat/destroy

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 12:42 AM
i dont host because my internet connection sux, but what i think is reasonable is vulching to a limited extent. if u see a plane landing or taking off, why not kill it, but just circling the airfield waiting for a guy to spawn and killing the same person over and over again i think is too much. to a limited extent i think it is fine tho.

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 12:43 AM
Like a vulture....

47|FC
http://rangerring.com/wwii/p-47.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 12:48 AM
No way is that a vulch. The cheesy guy was trying to get back to base by taxing his way there. If you do that then you are live bait and that is a good kill.

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 02:09 AM
For clarification, the TX-OC3 server does allow vulching.

In fact, we encourage it.



The reason is very simple. Who can define vulching accurately?

Some say attacking a target while wheels down is vulching. Others say if the target is just taking off or on final approach while still others say that you should let the target come off the deck and get some speed so he can defend himself. Some say it's ok in an IL2 or Stuka. Some say it's ok if a fighter does it but only with bombs or rockets. Add in the HE111 and AI bombers to the mix...is it ok to drop a 5000kg bomb on targets still on deck or not? If not, what good is a bomber in the first place?

I come to the server to fight, not argue rules or quibble over what's fair and what's not. To me it's irrelvant how I get taken out...guns, rockets, bombs, crashing or getting rammed. I'm dead, time to respawn.



Now consider the dynamics of the game play on the OC3. We have included a number of AI bombers for the enjoyment of the community. Lots of people enjoy the variety and change of pace that we present. With the bombers comes a new emphasis on teamwork because they cannot protect themselves. Teammates take it upon themselves to escort the bombers on the way to the objective and in some cases those very bombers are required in order to achieve the scenario victory conditions.

This approach solves an age old problem in these types of games...you can call it flag camping, vulching, sniping or whatever you like but in essence it's the same...a player trying to get over with an easy kill. By encouraging it you take that edge away from them, create a new dynamic based on teamwork and mutual support and eliminate most arguments before they start. It encourages players to fly a variety of planes because the best dogfighter is not necessarily the best bomber hunter. Planes that are considered uncompetitive have a role there now...they may not dogfight well but they have weapons effective against bombers or carry ordinance that can destroy ground targets. Roles begin to develop of what planes are going to do what and the chat line is scrolling fast and furious...'bomber needs escort', 'attention, IL2 inbound to base, get airborne asap' or my favorite...'hey, anyone want to make a huge PE8 run?'. The comraderie is impressive even among strangers. Since the objective is partly based on the script and partly based on directly attacking the enemy base, people are aware of this and expect to be attacked on the ground. We typically provide more than one base to spawn from to allow some leeway in the event that one base is getting completely shutdown as well.

You could argue that AAA is there to discourage attacks on the bases and could be used to ward off the would be vulcher. It could indeed but it has a bad tendency to lag the server, especially at over 25 players. And with all the AAA in the world I still consistently see players on other servers violate the mission brief and strafe targets on the ground despite the host's best intentions.


I operate by very simple logic in general...things don't need to be complicated in order to work. State your rules clearly in the mission brief, spread the word amoung the players and eliminate surprises. Encourage teamwork, give some variety and be consistent.

So in summary, yes we do encourage it. I prefer a no BS approach to administering a server and have been doing this for many years in FB and other games, and have been very statisfied with the results so far. Our style is not for everyone but it is fair...both sides operate under the same rules and we emphasis teamwork as the main ingredient for success.

I welcome the community to come out and see for yourselves. Many players find it to be highly entertaining and we always appreciate those who choose to fly the OC3.

Salute!


TX-Zen
Black 6
TX Squadron CO
http://www.txsquadron.com
clyndes@hotmail.com (IM only)


http://www.txsquadron.com/uploaded/tx-zen/Zensig2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 02:42 AM
to me,

vulching = spawn killing

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 03:04 AM
the guy just was on the ground taxing back to base.....?

I say shoot him....if hes dumb enough to actually try that. In real life he wouldnt last a second....so i say...blast away! (hey it rhymes /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif )

Steaks
375th FS

Is it Pets Mart...or Pet Smart????

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 03:40 AM
TX-Zen,

Your post was one of the best and well written I've ever seen concerning 'vulching' on DF servers. I wonder how many people actually read it and understood what you were trying to say?

Aviar

----------------------------------
AMD XP 2600+
EPoX EP-8K9AI Mobo
1536Mb DDR PC 2100 RAM
ATI Radeon 9700 Pro
SoundBlaster Audigy 2
Klipsch 5.1 THX Certified Speakers
CH FighterStick USB
CH Pro Throttle USB
CH Pro Pedals USB
Thrustmaster Tacticalboard

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 04:05 AM
Aviar wrote:
- TX-Zen,
-
- Your post was one of the best and well written I've
- ever seen concerning 'vulching' on DF servers. I
- wonder how many people actually read it and
- understood what you were trying to say?
-
- Aviar

Not many, likely.

Look folks it's pretty simple in my humble opinion. Two basic scenarios, each of which are subject to the HOST'S DISCRETION!:

1) DF server free for all: This is a game where everybody just spawns and kills the other guy until dead themselves. Vulching is probably not suitable here because it's similar to spawn camping in a FPS. If server says it's cool, well, it's cool for everyone so no need to whine.

2) COOP, online war, scripted war DF server: Teams are playing for points or a mission objective including killing as many of the enemy as possible to win. This is akin to a capture-the-flag game in a FPS where someone who's defending the base can't be considered "camping". Vulching is a valid tactic, just like in real war. The host could include a rear base for each team so that if the forward base is being dominated by the other team, you can at least spawn in relative safety and work towards clearing your forward base.

So next time some baby on a scripted server says "Winners Don't Play Vulchers" just reply with the truth:

"WHINERS Don't Play Vulchers" /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Or find a server that plays by the rules you like. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



<center>http://members.rogers.com/4xtreme/chbanner.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 05:23 AM
I believe the server name was Green something. Anyway it wasn't a straight up dogfight server more of various dogfighting missions.
I try to play honorable because I know how it is everything is peachy and one person vulches, and then it's vulch city.
I cover my wingmen whenever possible even though it's gotten me into trouble many times. I always get the guy off my wingman.
The thing that bothered me was I had him smoking but not thick black billowing smoke. More like fuel tank leak smoke where you get that thin smoke trail.
I give planes time to get off the ground and get some altitude as long as they don't try to engage before then. I don't swoop in on people set up to land at their base.
This guy however simply couldn't shake me, and was going to go down. So he ditched in hope I would fly off, and he could get airborne again. He was in no way in a emergency have to land situation. Definitely by no means out of the fight. I felt it was a cowardly tactic and chose to strafe him on the ground.
Of course the server message said "So and so is safe on the ground." so I just wanted everyone's opinion on it.
I mean I see people who dive in on an aircraft as it takes off, slam on the brakes and simply follow them until they get some altitude before opening fire. To me I wouldn't gripe about it but it's kind of a low thing to do. Like vulching but not vulching due to a technicality.

I have attacked planes at their base with bombers though, but according to what I've read thats not vulching as you can't exactly dogfight. It's a task in itself just getting to their airfield in a TB-3 and without any autopilot bombing is difficult. The wings level autopilot doesn't work for me for some reason.

A good example in my opinion of vulching without vulching was on several maps earlier. When I spawned you could see the BF-109's circling. They'd let you taxi out to the runway, and take off. As soon as you get 200 feet off the ground roughly they BnZ you. Technically it's not vulching and I don't gripe either way.

Vulching happened and is a fair tactic in war IMHO. I however simply choose to show a little chivalry and I'm a sporting person. Shooting a sitting duck isn't exciting. I'd rather play tag in the sky for 15 minutes with one opponent who gave me a real run for my money win or lose.

In fact the only thing I don't enjoy about online play is how they limit all the aircraft. There's a minimum selection and only certain models. Like on where I got stuck on the Axis side, and no offense to Axis players I cannot fly a BF-109 worth of flip. It's futile for me to even hop in the cockpit, and when my choices are BF-109, B-239 (Buffalo I forget the exact designation), Stuka, HE-111. I end up playing the HE-111 or the Stuka. While I like the I-16 the Buffalo I find displeasing, and I can't make a BF-109 turn or climb worth a flip.

Typically I fair pretty well as long as I can get my hands on a P-40, Yak-9, or P-39. Although all the uber talk of the P-39 I feel kinda of guilty flying it. Plus I can't ever hardly hit with it's big nose gun, and it only has 2 MG's. I can shred with a P-40 though and it's 6 MG's.

On the other hand I'd say for my first try at full real I did pretty decent, and found engine management more helpfull than troublesome. I found out that if you know what your doing you can really get some high speed out of about anything with an adjustable pitch prop.

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 05:46 AM
Shoot 'em in the air, shoot 'em on the ground, shoot 'em in their chutes....


The idea is to kill your enemy.

Not invite him over for a nice cup of tea.




<center><FONT color="red">[b]BlitzPig_EL</FONT>[B]<CENTER> http://old.jccc.net/~droberts/p40/images/p40home.gif
</img>.
"All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day that it was vanity:
but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible. "
--T.E. Lawrence

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 05:56 AM
Here's my quarter on the subject. In real war, you'd better vulch or he might be the one taking you out. Of course this isn't real war and when the headphones come off, your still inside your home. But, I tend to like to role play, especially on servers like OC3 & GreaterGreen. I like the teamwork that is emphasized in missions briefing. And what TX-Zen said is right, the comradery between strangers is unreal sometimes. Been there, it's true. Personally, I feel there's nothing wrong with it and the word orta be banned. Lol Depends on the servers rules of engagement. I believe in following rules so if the server I'm flying on says it doesn't allow vulching, I don't. But I like the real world environment that FB embodies and basically feel vulching shouldn't even be an issue. Just my quarters' worth.

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 07:01 AM
VULTCHING ???

SHOOTING PEOPLE ON THE GROUND ?????


dont get me started ........

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 07:14 AM
Please,get started!/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

47|FC
http://rangerring.com/wwii/p-47.jpg