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Farlander1991
04-07-2015, 10:30 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGRTnB4u0uc

It's not something we totally haven't seen before, but it's clean footage (no commentary, streaming, etc.) and there's a bit more of it. Plus we can hear the music.

Democrito_71
04-07-2015, 10:48 PM
Chronicles: China looks very promising and I really like from what I see. Did anyone notice that the guards actually speak mandarin and a few times they spoke english with British accents? Perhaps Ubi have taken notice on the criticism towards Unitys english accent thing.

Megas_Doux
04-07-2015, 10:55 PM
It looks nice, indeed.



Chronicles: China looks very promising and I really like from what I see. Did anyone notice that the guards actually speak mandarin and a few times they spoke english with British accents? Perhaps Ubi have taken notice on the criticism towards Unitys english accent thing.

Now that you mention it, my ideal approach is to have the actors using their natural voices, or hiring native speakers for the NPC´s just like in Revelations. In Unity y free roam in "french" so to speak.

VestigialLlama4
04-07-2015, 11:00 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGRTnB4u0uc

It's not something we totally haven't seen before, but it's clean footage (no commentary, streaming, etc.) and there's a bit more of it. Plus we can hear the music.

It still looks cheap and lousy to me. For one thing it's no longer AC: there's no crowds, no social stealth, no Parkour its just a stealth-platform game, albeit one with pretentions of grandeur.

Shahkulu101
04-07-2015, 11:10 PM
It still looks cheap and lousy to me. For one thing it's no longer AC: there's no crowds, no social stealth, no Parkour its just a stealth-platform game, albeit one with pretentions of grandeur.

It's a 2D spin-off for crying out loud...

SixKeys
04-07-2015, 11:15 PM
Heard the "Ezio's Family" theme a couple of times. It seems they've really made it the official theme song of the franchise.

Democrito_71
04-07-2015, 11:18 PM
Now that you mention it, my ideal approach is to have the actors using their natural voices, or hiring native speakers for the NPC´s just like in Revelations. In Unity y free roam in "french" so to speak.

I loved when the NPCs spoke turkish and Greek in Revelations. It gave the game such charm and Constantinople felt more exotic when I listened to the NPCs different languages. Even though I didn't understand what they said, it was very enjoying to listen the NPCs speak in their foreign languages :)

Depending on which settings AC goes to(for example India and China), I would prefer if Ubi hired actors from those countries and that the main characters + the side characters spoke english with indian accent(British Raj) or Mandarin accent(China) instead of hiring British, American or Canadian Actors to pretend they come from those respective countries.

And yeah, the NPCs should speak their natural languages(Hindi in India, Mandarin in China and Swedish in Sweden for example) depending which country AC is based in.

Sushiglutton
04-07-2015, 11:22 PM
Think it looks cool overall. Movement looks very smooth, almost silky (Chinese pun intended). There are a couple peculiar detection rules I think. Like how enemies are blind when they talk and that light/dark doesn't seem to play any role at all? Thought light was very well handled by Mark Of The Ninja.

Anyway visually it's smashing and the kills look very cool :).

Shahkulu101
04-07-2015, 11:25 PM
Heard the "Ezio's Family" theme a couple of times. It seems they've really made it the official theme song of the franchise.

It's a good song but urghhhhhh...

Let Ezio and AC2 go FFS...

Altair1789
04-07-2015, 11:34 PM
The way she uses a rope dart... I'd like to see those capabilities in ACVictory

Namikaze_17
04-08-2015, 01:18 AM
Not bad. Am liking what I see from Chronicles...

Can't wait to see what India and Russia can do. :cool:

pirate1802
04-08-2015, 01:19 PM
It still looks cheap and lousy to me. For one thing it's no longer AC: there's no crowds, no social stealth, no Parkour its just a stealth-platform game, albeit one with pretentions of grandeur.

Indeed, not as much social stealth as the best AC of all times: AC3. Sad really.

Moving on, I'm honestly a little disappointed by what I'm seeing, that the guards are extremely myopic. That there is no light and darkness system unlike MotN. The sound system too, doesn't seem to be that good. Also it is a little-laughter worthy to see the committing bloody murder just outside the range of their cones. I am thinking that maybe they should have ditched this floating triangle cone mechanism and should have gone for a shadow system like in MotN. That worked so damn well. Kill in shadows and guards won't see you, walk in light and they will see you afar. The talking guards ignoring you thing is also silly. I think lousy AI would be a major deal breaker for me when I play this. Apart from that the game is looking fairly good. Nice art style, good background music, good levels. Loved the crawling-around-palace-corner turning the map around thing.That was pretty neat.

Namikaze_17
04-08-2015, 01:41 PM
Indeed, not as much social stealth as the best AC of all times: AC3.

I couldn't help but chuckle at this... ^^

Xstantin
04-08-2015, 05:14 PM
Looks neat. But these cones of vision :nonchalance:

Megas_Doux
04-08-2015, 05:21 PM
I couldn't help but chuckle at this... ^^

On behalf of AC III I think that game has some social stealth at least. There´s NO such thing in AC IV and Unity at all.

VestigialLlama4
04-08-2015, 05:29 PM
I played Mark of the Ninja today and I have to say that game is so much more robust and tactile than Chronicles. And Chronicles steals everything from that game. Grappling Hook, Line of Sight, Stealth Kill, Alarms.

ze_topazio
04-08-2015, 05:30 PM
Indeed, not as much social stealth as the best AC of all times: AC3. Sad really.

Moving on, I'm honestly a little disappointed by what I'm seeing, that the guards are extremely myopic. That there is no light and darkness system unlike MotN. The sound system too, doesn't seem to be that good. Also it is a little-laughter worthy to see the committing bloody murder just outside the range of their cones. I am thinking that maybe they should have ditched this floating triangle cone mechanism and should have gone for a shadow system like in MotN. That worked so damn well. Kill in shadows and guards won't see you, walk in light and they will see you afar. The talking guards ignoring you thing is also silly. I think lousy AI would be a major deal breaker for me when I play this. Apart from that the game is looking fairly good. Nice art style, good background music, good levels. Loved the crawling-around-palace-corner turning the map around thing.That was pretty neat.

This Chronicles games feel more like an improved version of those DS games with some inspiration from Motn than a straight copy, shadows and camouflage have never been a staple of AC, stealth in this series have always been more about staying away from the guards sights, hiding inside places and blending among civilians when possible.

Namikaze_17
04-08-2015, 05:39 PM
On behalf of AC III I think that game has some social stealth at least. There´s NO such thing in AC IV and Unity at all.

Oh yes, I agree.

I mostly just chuckled at how he said BEST AC OF ALL TIMES. :rolleyes:

GunnerGalactico
04-08-2015, 05:58 PM
It might take a while for me to get used to this type of gameplay, but it looks beautiful nonetheless. I like the BGM too.

Farlander1991
04-08-2015, 06:10 PM
On behalf of AC III I think that game has some social stealth at least. There´s NO such thing in AC IV and Unity at all.

Define what you mean by social stealth?

While Unity might not have a lot of ways to manipulate the crowd (with the exception of money bombs for direct manipulation and other bombs for indirect), I've made it a point to utilize the crowd whenever possible in every AC game, and in Unity I did that a lot more than in any AC game to date. And a lot of it felt quite awesome.

SixKeys
04-08-2015, 06:33 PM
IMO social stealth is about manipulating the crowd to your advantage and your actions having consequences via crowd reactions. Ever since AC3 you can't bump into people, no-one cares if you climb a building, people rarely comment on your actions, people just step over dead bodies after staring at them for a while etc. There should be a genuine sense of your actions leaving an impression on people, whether positive or negative. Unity did have this to some extent with its crowd events, where people would cheer or boo at certain actions and have varying reactions to fights breaking out. People also recognize you and greet you which is nice. But I miss things like having to deal with beggars and drunks, people commenting on how weird I am for climbing a building, falling down when running through crowds, people running like headless chickens when they discover a dead body etc.

VestigialLlama4
04-08-2015, 07:04 PM
IMO social stealth is about manipulating the crowd to your advantage and your actions having consequences via crowd reactions.

Well you didn't manipulate the crowd in AC1. The only effect you had was the Liberation missions which created those Vigilante Archtetypes (and who pretty much grab the four Jubairs for you to shakedown). That only came with AC2 with the money throwing options, and then the more developed Liberation missions in Borgia Towers in ACB, and then the bomb mechanic in Revelations.


Ever since AC3 you can't bump into people,

You do bump into people a lot in AC3.


But I miss things like having to deal with beggars and drunks, people commenting on how weird I am for climbing a building, falling down when running through crowds, people running like headless chickens when they discover a dead body etc.

That's one aspect they could have really developed in UNITY because that was a setting and period where the Crowds really were the stars.

shobhit7777777
04-08-2015, 07:15 PM
Well you didn't manipulate the crowd in AC1. .

Nope...but crowd awareness was a thing. You had to be mindful of the NPCs. You could stumble and fall in a dense crowd, bump into someone carrying something and they drop it...would grab the attention of nearby guards

But yeah....as the series has progressed the crowd simulation has remained stagnant and in some cases..devolved.

There are some inexplicable design decisions in some of the later titles that boggle the mind. For example: Losing the ability to blend in a crowd when they are witness factions fighting each other or perhaps when you let off a diversionary tool in the distance. Its weird.

SixKeys
04-08-2015, 07:21 PM
Well you didn't manipulate the crowd in AC1. The only effect you had was the Liberation missions which created those Vigilante Archtetypes (and who pretty much grab the four Jubairs for you to shakedown). That only came with AC2 with the money throwing options, and then the more developed Liberation missions in Borgia Towers in ACB, and then the bomb mechanic in Revelations.

True, AC2 expanded on the social stealth concept in a number of ways (factions, notoriety etc.). I never said AC1 was the only game to have social stealth. However, later games removed some features that I wish would have remained, like beggars throwing stones at you. AC1 didn't allow you to give them money, but I wish the sequels would have tweaked it so that beggars' reaction to you would depend on whether you gave them money. If you ignore them, they would throw stones at you or lie to the guards that you tried to assault them, and if you did give them money, they would help you in a tight spot, like pointing guards in the wrong direction when they're chasing you. I really wish the street urchins in AC3 had been used like this.


You do bump into people a lot in AC3.

But it doesn't matter because you can no longer stumble and fall, and Connor automatically pushes people out of the way. It's just a leftover aesthetic.


That's one aspect they could have really developed in UNITY because that was a setting and period where the Crowds really were the stars.

Yup.

VestigialLlama4
04-08-2015, 07:43 PM
True, AC2 expanded on the social stealth concept in a number of ways (factions, notoriety etc.). I never said AC1 was the only game to have social stealth. However, later games removed some features that I wish would have remained, like beggars throwing stones at you. AC1 didn't allow you to give them money, but I wish the sequels would have tweaked it so that beggars' reaction to you would depend on whether you gave them money. If you ignore them, they would throw stones at you or lie to the guards that you tried to assault them, and if you did give them money, they would help you in a tight spot, like pointing guards in the wrong direction when they're chasing you.

The crowd aspect is one thing they really need to develop for VICTORY since that's an era of civilization. In the sense that if you walk around Parkouring over London and murder police or anyone in that time period, well it would be harder to justify why no one's reported you because you had an informed mass media, newspapers, emerging telegraph, modern police and forensics.

They should develop social stealth that a gamer ''can" do the entire sandbox or open world (i.e. non-story missions) without being detected. A ghost-run. All activities, all chest and collectibles, all Tombs, Viewpoints, all Assassinations, all Building climbing can be ghosted based on how you blend or time your interactions with crowd.


I really wish the street urchins in AC3 had been used like this.

You know some of the Homestead missions do have some creative bits. Like there is this mission where you have to find this target in Boston, and the way to do that is appoach these urchins who work as newsboys (anachronistic I know) and you have to pay them and they slowly narrow down your search with information and the like. But that is only one mission yes and not a full feature.


But it doesn't matter because you can no longer stumble and fall, and Connor automatically pushes people out of the way. It's just a leftover aesthetic.

Well Connor is a big guy, built like a Rugby/American Football player, so it should be harder for him to fall. If you do the Thomas Hickey chase in New York right (hard I understnad for many people since it is not a popular mission), its kind of this intense barge through New York. It's also the only time that the social stealth works realistically, in that running around and tackling a man in a crowded street in broad daylight gets you landed in jail. It's a deconstruction in that sense.

Ideally Unity should have gone further in crowd behaviour. Also you have to get the Assassins some tough story challenges. So far they have opposed Templars or individual bad guys in the name of the public good, when ordinary people -- men and women, even children -- start committing violence and property damage, can you actually go ahead and assassinate all of them, is that morally right? What do you when a whole bunch of ordinary people do stuff that's wrong. I mean can social stealth work say in an AC game set in Nazi Germany where most of the ordinary Germans knew the Holocaust was happening, none of them opposed the Nazis or Hitler even at the very end, where you can't really call the people "good"?

You see some of that in Bonfire of the Vanities where the crowd behaviour and the like, is a subject of discussion.

SixKeys
04-08-2015, 09:00 PM
You know some of the Homestead missions do have some creative bits. Like there is this mission where you have to find this target in Boston, and the way to do that is appoach these urchins who work as newsboys (anachronistic I know) and you have to pay them and they slowly narrow down your search with information and the like. But that is only one mission yes and not a full feature.


One thing I liked about the urchins was the way they introduce you to the Thieves' Club. (The club itself is useless which is a shame.) You just walk around pickpocketing people with no real purpose and once you've colelcted enough, these kids approach you and ask you to join their club. That's a great example of emergent gameplay because you, as a player, aren't clued in by the game what exactly you have to do to get invited. By comparison, the Hunters' Club and Frontiersmen are kind of boring because they're just out in the open, an icon on the map for you to walk to. They should have introduced the hunters the same way as the thieves: hunt enough animals and someone will approach you with a challenge. AC needs more of this emergent gameplay, not just piles upon piles of icons that point you in the right direction.

m4r-k7
04-08-2015, 09:00 PM
Ahh I just can't get excited for this. I love 2D platforming games like Mark of the Ninja but Ubi why India and China?! They would have made such fantastic settings for a main entry.

Farlander1991
04-08-2015, 09:04 PM
Ahh I just can't get excited for this. I love 2D platforming games like Mark of the Ninja but Ubi why India and China?! They would have made such fantastic settings for a main entry.

I don't really get this sentiment exactly. Chronicles exclude the settings used in them as possibilities for the future just because they're used?

It's strange to me because when The Fall and Brahman comics were released, everybody was lamenting how we won't get games for those settings because they were used for the comics. Well, now we're getting games for those settings. Sure, they're not entirely open world, and they're, well, 2D, but who's to say that these smaller games exclude big main console titles in the future?

JamesFaith007
04-08-2015, 09:54 PM
Ahh I just can't get excited for this. I love 2D platforming games like Mark of the Ninja but Ubi why India and China?! They would have made such fantastic settings for a main entry.

I think you are looking on it from wrong angle.

This isn't mainly about India and China setting but about characters already introduced in other medias. Fact that these setting aren't "realistic" but stylized support this.

This countries can be easily used again in future, they just move timeline and use new character.

m4r-k7
04-08-2015, 11:00 PM
I don't really get this sentiment exactly. Chronicles exclude the settings used in them as possibilities for the future just because they're used?

It's strange to me because when The Fall and Brahman comics were released, everybody was lamenting how we won't get games for those settings because they were used for the comics. Well, now we're getting games for those settings. Sure, they're not entirely open world, and they're, well, 2D, but who's to say that these smaller games exclude big main console titles in the future?

If they were going to use China and India, they already have the characters (as you just mentioned, they are in the comics) they would have been put in a full game, not a 2D game. The fact that they have used the comics as a premise for the 2D game signals that they won't use these settings in a main entry. They could have put Shao and Arbaaz in a main entry, but they specifically chose not to. I hope your right and they use India and China in the future, but personally I think if they were to use these settings in the future, they wouldn't tease / use it in another game before a main entry. If they released a full China game and then AC Chronicles China as a different story I would understand that more. Using the setting before the main entry is not their style.

Farlander1991
04-09-2015, 12:05 AM
If they were going to use China and India, they already have the characters (as you just mentioned, they are in the comics) they would have been put in a full game, not a 2D game.

I'm sorry, but that's just assumptions. Besides, why they would have already been put in a full game by now? (also, why would a full game use precisely those characters necessarily?)

We know from interviews that pre-production on Assassin's Creed 4 Black Flag started in summer 2011, and that pre-production for Unity started four years before release (after BH). Since Shao Jun's first appearance in 2011 (which I think would also be around the time she would be concepted as a character for the short animation, beginning of that year probably), three of the four main console titles that were released (AC3, AC4, ACU) were worked on before anybody in the public knew who Shao Jun even was. And the fourth one (Rogue) was clearly made to reuse as much assets as possible.

And Brahman was released at the end of 2013.

The only one that appeared later is Victory, and that's just one of the AC projects we know about (since it was leaked).

Given the timeline, there's no reason to believe that Ubisoft would have already used China/India, at least in relation to already existing characters.

And when it comes to other games: both French and American Revolution were hinted in Brotherhood (and American one was already being worked on actively at the time), so I think it's pretty safe to say that Ubi had eyes on those two periods for a long time. Caribbean may have appeared out of nowhere, but it was based on AC3 mechanics, and, let's face it, if you want to make a ship-based game based on those ship mechanics, Caribbean's kinda the obvious choice.

Plus, when it comes to China for example, we have all the Chinese extra weapons in these new games, and a side game dedicated to China, so I'm pretty sure China's somewhere on Ubi's minds.

ze_topazio
04-09-2015, 12:21 AM
I mean can social stealth work say in an AC game set in Nazi Germany where most of the ordinary Germans knew the Holocaust was happening, none of them opposed the Nazis or Hitler even at the very end, where you can't really call the people "good"?

Dude, Nazi Germany was a dictatorship, the common people were kept ignorant, brainwashed and oppressed, they knew little or nothing and even if they knew what could they do, protest and get killed? organize a rebellion to challenge the regime that took all of the worlds super powers combined to take down?

VestigialLlama4
04-09-2015, 04:25 AM
Dude, Nazi Germany was a dictatorship, the common people were kept ignorant, brainwashed and oppressed,

If by common people, you mean Jews and outsiders you were right but the Nazi government was quite hands-off and decent to the Aryan German majority. They were neither brainwashed nor oppressed at all. Even German historians will admit this. The ordinary Germans definitely knew the Holocaust was happening at the time. We know this thanks to the tiny handful of Germans who did try to do good (Sophie Scholl and others).

In any case, I am actually asking from more of a gameplay perspective, how would Assassin's Creed work as a game if the real enemies were the "peoples" themselves.

Shahkulu101
04-09-2015, 04:44 AM
If by common people, you mean Jews and outsiders you were right but the Nazi government was quite hands-off and decent to the Aryan German majority. They were neither brainwashed nor oppressed at all. Even German historians will admit this. The ordinary Germans definitely knew the Holocaust was happening at the time. We know this thanks to the tiny handful of Germans who did try to do good (Sophie Scholl and others).

In any case, I am actually asking from more of a gameplay perspective, how would Assassin's Creed work as a game if the real enemies were the "peoples" themselves.

They'd probably have to shift the focus from social stealth to covert infiltration. Have missions take place at times where no-one is about, at least not there in their hundreds or thousands - maybe lots more night missions with an emphasis on shadows. It would need to have more focus on indoors missions as well, so it could take place in tight enclosed spaces where it's easy hide. In short, they'd have to turn it into a historical Splinter Cell with all the emphasis being put on environmental stealth rather than crowds. If we're being honest, since AC3 this has already kind of happened. AC3 and 4 introduced stalking zones and Unity's stealth relies on crouching behind objects. I think that's a sign that they're either out of ideas for social stealth or can't get it to function well, which is understandable since no game has really tackled it. It would be a shame if they let it go, however - it's what sets AC apart from just any old stealth game.

VestigialLlama4
04-09-2015, 05:12 AM
They'd probably have to shift the focus from social stealth to covert infiltration. Have missions take place at times where no-one is about, at least not there in their hundreds or thousands - maybe lots more night missions with an emphasis on shadows. It would need to have more focus on indoors missions as well, so it could take place in tight enclosed spaces where it's easy hide. In short, they'd have to turn it into a historical Splinter Cell with all the emphasis being put on environmental stealth rather than crowds. If we're being honest, since AC3 this has already kind of happened. AC3 and 4 introduced stalking zones and Unity's stealth relies on crouching behind objects. I think that's a sign that they're either out of ideas for social stealth or can't get it to function well, which is understandable since no game has really tackled it. It would be a shame if they let it go, however - it's what sets AC apart from just any old stealth game.

One thing about Connor in AC3 is that he spends quite some time in white society, and him being dark skinned should mean that he's harder to blend in and harder to forget to justify social stealth (this might be why Connor is not as stealthy since he's not really one with the crowd). They went this way in Liberation where based on her costumes, Aveline can blend in different crowds in different ways. They could take it further, like say an Aristocrat like Arno (with his classy ascot and poshly tailored Assassin outfits as seen in Customization) should be a sore sight in a poor area, and especially in Victory which is set in a period where social classes were kind of this informal caste system, and your accent marked you in people's minds as an outsider.