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EmbodyingSeven5
04-07-2015, 05:06 PM
I just went into gamestop yesterday and saw the huge price drop on rogue to about 20 bucks. kind of upset I didn't wait awhile since it dropped so low and so fast. must have not sold well. please correct me if I am wrong

ze_topazio
04-07-2015, 05:14 PM
It sold decently for a poorly advertised game, around 1.70 million according to VGChartz.

D.I.D.
04-07-2015, 05:19 PM
We don't know yet. Up to the New Year, the combined figures for Rogue and Unity were 10m units but that's "shipped", not necessarily "sold" (reflective of sales figures, but not a certain representation). By comparison, Black Flag shipped 11m by the same date the previous year.

It will take a while to get a proper picture of digital sales and the PC release. It's safe to say neither game failed, but obviously neither one broke sales records. However, AC4 was for both gens and there was only one game to buy, and you can be pretty sure that the presence of Rogue and Unity hurt each other a little bit (as well as turning off some customers who didn't appreciate the overload of AC titles in a period when most games buyers have to make tough choices about what to buy).

Markaccus
04-07-2015, 05:28 PM
I possibly would not have bothered with rogue, and just waited till i got the ps4 and unity, if i had waited to read a few rogue reviews. They all basically say "its mini-black flag" and i found out they were right. So maybe people who were going to buy it thought "not worth it" and gave it a miss.

Hans684
04-07-2015, 05:39 PM
It better received then Unity.

Megas_Doux
04-07-2015, 05:56 PM
It better received then Unity.

Itīs poor manīs AC IV on a WAY duller setting!!!! It relied on the super well received naval gameplay that MANY prefer over that old "urban, boring chore" quoting angry joe and totalbiscuit for instance. Besides the expectations were low and its launch was not a disaster, there you have it.

Having said that, Iīm probably super biased for I despise the mere existence of this game. Colonial America again???? Adding further insult to injury, NY just 15 years before, REALLY?????? The SAME overall layout and mechanics as AC IV, but poorly executed to the point Shay seems to have a joint problem on his waist. The story is not The last of Us either, at times you feel is fan fiction with the VA not particularly helping the cause. You know, even the graphics look sub-par on my PC. The good???? Naval provides fun and the north atlantic is cool. However thatīs it for me.....

Markaccus
04-07-2015, 06:00 PM
...... The north atlantic is cool and thatīs it for me.....

Cool? Its fkn FREEZING! Look at all the icebergs!! :D

Shahkulu101
04-07-2015, 06:01 PM
Well I went to buy Rogue one day after release and GAME (Gamestop UK equivalent) had sold out of Rogue copies yet Unity was in stock...

Megas_Doux
04-07-2015, 06:02 PM
Cool? Its fkn FREEZING! Look at all the icebergs!! :D

I knew that one was coming haha.



Well I went to buy Rogue one day after release and GAME (Gamestop UK equivalent) had sold out of Rogue copies yet Unity was in stock...


Unity probably shipped more copies, but still the disastrous release cost them dearly.

Markaccus
04-07-2015, 06:17 PM
The other main thing i disliked about rogue.... I did not want to be a templar. I know it was just a plot twist, but it just did not feel right.

SixKeys
04-07-2015, 06:36 PM
Having said that, Iīm probably super biased for I despise the mere existence of this game. Colonial America again???? Adding further insult to injury, NY just 15 years before, REALLY??????

I did not like AC3's New York at all and reusing it in another game was a cheap move, but I must admit, if AC3 had done New York the way Rogue did, I would have liked the game a hell of a lot more. ALL the environments in Rogue are how they should have been in AC3. The nature parts are so much more colorful, beautiful and immersive than AC3's Frontier ever was, and the ambient music really helps (I especially love "The Mysterious North"). Unlike AC3, treerunning is a lot more viable as a traversal method and there's always something eye-catching on the horizon. You can always see new paths opening up in multiple directions, which makes navigation so much better. New York doesn't feel like a copy-paste job at all, because they managed to make freerunning much more interesting.

VestigialLlama4
04-07-2015, 06:46 PM
ROGUE might have made a higher profit than UNITY in terms of margin. Its a game that was made on a lower budget and reused all its assets, and made at some minor Ubisoft studios with a smaller staff. Low investment, low risk, old gen consoles (with many not having converted) and decent sales means it might have had a higher margin.

Whereas UNITY is obviously a fairly expensive game on expensive Next-Gen consoles with a very high Graphics Benchmark for PC. It was a game that could have been a Killer App for the Next-Gen but it doesn't seem to have played that role. It's also losing money on DLC, and making extra cash is the only reason why DLC exists.

ze_topazio
04-07-2015, 06:46 PM
Rogue includes a segment of Lisbon, which is objectively the most beautiful, immersive, open and kawaii location not only from this series but also the entire videogames industry.



...or so I would like to think. http://www.narutoforums.com/images/smilies/catdespair.gif

Hans684
04-07-2015, 07:35 PM
Itīs poor manīs AC IV on a WAY duller setting!!!!

Less resources than Unity and it's previous gen game. It's not meant to surpass Unity's gameplay because it can't, like Black Flag. Another game limited by the gen it's made in. Dull is subjective.


It relied on the super well received naval gameplay that MANY prefer over that old "urban, boring chore" quoting angry joe and totalbiscuit for instance.

What is AC? That's the question.


Besides the expectations were low and its launch was not a disaster, there you have it.

True but I had higher expectations(in term of story) than Unity. Rogue unlike Unity isn't a filler bigger than Liberations(or other handhelds). We used Shay's memories to signal a second purge against the Assassins. What did Arno's life do? Nothing, he's as irrelevant as it gets. Searching for the Sage was nothing but a waste of time.


Having said that, Iīm probably super biased for I despise the mere existence of this game.

Depends on why you play AC, doesn't it? As someone who plays for the entire story(MD, history & First Civ.) I'd take Rogue over Unity any day. I bet you play for gameplay.


Colonial America again????

And? It's the Seven Years war, did you expect it to be in China? I get you heavily dislike Colonial America because it's "dull".


Adding further insult to injury, NY just 15 years before, REALLY??????

Visiting a country or city only once sounds like a great idea for a series based on history that can be in any time or place.


The SAME overall layout and mechanics as AC IV.

What did you expect. It's in Colonial America a few year before AC3 and a few years after Freedom Cry. Same country, same environment, same city's etc... It's not supposed to be anything it isn't.


But poorly executed to the point Shay seems to have a joint problem on his waist.

And Arno is disabled, both have their own problems.


The story is not The last of Us either, at times you feel is fan fiction with the VA not particularly helping the cause.

At least it has a story. Unity on the other hand twist the revolution on it's head(talk to Ilama about the historical accuracy), a poor fan fiction version of Romeo & Juliet and a complete waste of time(talk to Bishop how important Arno is).


You know, even the graphics look sub-par on my PC.

It's last gen, don't expect what you can't get.


The good???? Naval provides fun and the north atlantic is cool.

Naval is expanded a little on and North Atlantic is new.

SixKeys
04-07-2015, 07:48 PM
And? It's the Seven Years war, did you expect it to be in China? I get you heavily dislike Colonial America because it's "dull".

Regardless of personal preference, three games in the same setting is a bit much, don't you think? (AC3, Liberation, Rogue) Even Ezio had a change of scenery in his final adventure.


It's last gen, don't expect what you can't get.

Doesn't matter. Black Flag was last-gen too and it looks way better on my PC. I can run Rogue maxed out on all settings and it still looks sub-par in comparison. It's obvious they didn't spend much time polishing it visually, not because it was last-gen but because it was a rushed game.

Hans684
04-07-2015, 07:58 PM
Regardless of personal preference, three games in the same setting is a bit much, don't you think?(AC3, Liberation, Rogue)

Not as long as the story is intact and connected. Unity only has connections, nothing big.


Even Ezio had a change of scenery in his final adventure.

True, where would you have finished the Kenway Saga? I'm curious.


Doesn't matter. Black Flag was last-gen too and it looks way better on my PC.

It's cross gen.


I can run Rogue maxed out on all settings and it still looks sub-par in comparison. It's obvious they didn't spend much time polishing it visually.

Not gonna say to much, I'm not a PC player.


Not because it was last-gen but because it was a rushed game.

No doubt about that.

Shahkulu101
04-07-2015, 07:58 PM
I did not like AC3's New York at all and reusing it in another game was a cheap move, but I must admit, if AC3 had done New York the way Rogue did, I would have liked the game a hell of a lot more. ALL the environments in Rogue are how they should have been in AC3. The nature parts are so much more colorful, beautiful and immersive than AC3's Frontier ever was, and the ambient music really helps (I especially love "The Mysterious North"). Unlike AC3, treerunning is a lot more viable as a traversal method and there's always something eye-catching on the horizon. You can always see new paths opening up in multiple directions, which makes navigation so much better. New York doesn't feel like a copy-paste job at all, because they managed to make freerunning much more interesting.

Have to disagree, the forest environments and the depiction of New York are way too artificial and fake looking in Rogue. The trees and everything else, cliffs, leaves, even the textures are of far poorer quality than AC3. And what do you mean trees are now a viable means of navigation? They were so in AC3 too, I could spend ages not touching the ground going from one area of the frontier to another and what's more is they look way more organic along with the cliffs and general environment. I dislike New York but AC3's depiction was far more atmospheric and realistic looking, Rogue's looks unnatural precisely because it's far too colorful with jarringly bright yellows and blues filling the colour palette. It feels like a theme park - Disneyland - whereas AC3's world felt like a real place. The only thing Rogue's NY had going for it is the fact free-running routes are more fluid, which wasn't really a problem for me in AC3 anyway.

SixKeys
04-07-2015, 08:04 PM
True, where would you have finished the Kenway Saga? I'm curious.


First of all, I hate the idea of a "Kenway saga". I think AC3 was fine as a standalone story and should have ended there. I don't see why they had to make Haytham's father the protagonist of AC4 when they could have chosen someone with absolutely no ties to the assassins and Templars. I mean, I like Edward as a character, but there's nothing that particular required him to be a Kenway.

Rogue feels like bad fan fiction. They just march all the old favorites out one by one (except Connor, lel :rolleyes: ), like "look! It's Adewale, hanging out with Achilles at the Homestead! Isn't that cool? And heeyyy, it's everyone's favorite posh British guy, Haytham, who has no real purpose in the story but everyone wanted to see him again so why not?"


Have to disagree, the forest environments and the depiction of New York are way too artificial and fake looking in Rogue. The trees and everything else, cliffs, leaves, even the textures are of far poorer quality than AC3. And what do you mean trees are now a viable means of navigation? They were so in AC3 too, I could spend ages not touching the ground going from one area of the frontier to another and what's more is they look way more organic along with the cliffs and general environment. I dislike New York but AC3's depiction was far more atmospheric and realistic looking, Rogue's looks unnatural precisely because it's far too colorful with jarringly bright yellows and blues filling the colour palette. It feels like a theme park - Disneyland - whereas AC3's world felt like a real place. The only thing Rogue's NY had going for it is the fact free-running routes are more fluid, which wasn't really a problem for me in AC3 anyway.

I definitely agree about individual assets like leaves and cliffs, they do look poor. But the overall sense of atmosphere is much more vibrant and immersive to me. You may be right that Rogue's environments feel more artificial, but what matters to me is whether or not I want to spend time in that world. AC3's Frontier felt like a giant, boring wasteland. Rogue's forests feel like a forest should feel: mysterious, beautiful, colorful, teeming with life and interesting details. So many times I find myself stopping in Rogue to look at godrays filtering through the trees which are beautiful and green. When I think of AC3's forests, I think of depressingly washed-out, grey landscapes covered in mist as thick as smoke.

Maybe Rogue's forests feel like an idealized version of a forest, which I'm frankly okay with. Just like Ezio's Italy was an idealized version of Renaissance cities and Constantinople was an idealized version of that location. They were more colorful and clean than the real locations would have been, and why not? These games are about historical tourism, and tourism has always been somewhat artificial in its presentation of locales. Going too fake isn't ideal either, obvs, but I'd rather go for a stylized, slightly artificialized location that feels inviting and immersive than a drab and boring one that's closer to real life.

As for treerunning, AC3's trees were often pointed in only one direction. If you approached from the "wrong" direction, it was often impossible to make your way to the other end of the forest using tree traversal. For example, there was often a clear breadcrumb path towards an enemy camp that gave a perfect vantage point for some tree-based shenanigans, but only if you happened to be facing the camp from the right direction. In Rogue there are a lot more tree paths sprawling in different directions, criss-crossing over the landscape, so that no matter where you approach from, you can always find a way to climb up and take a different path.

Markaccus
04-07-2015, 08:18 PM
First of all, I hate the idea of a "Kenway saga". I think AC3 was fine as a standalone story and should have ended there. I don't see why they had to make Haytham's father the protagonist of AC4 when they could have chosen someone with absolutely no ties to the assassins and Templars. I mean, I like Edward as a character, but there's nothing that particular required him to be a Kenway.

Rogue feels like bad fan fiction. They just march all the old favorites out one by one (except Connor, lel :rolleyes: ), like "look! It's Adewale, hanging out with Achilles at the Homestead! Isn't that cool? And heeyyy, it's everyone's favorite posh British guy, Haytham, who has no real purpose in the story but everyone wanted to see him again so why not?"

People only like Hatham because he was British AND a baddie. Everyone knows we play the best baddies :D

GunnerGalactico
04-07-2015, 08:23 PM
People only like Hatham because he was British AND a baddie. Everyone knows we play the best baddies :D

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/dd/cd/f4/ddcdf4dda0606044bafba299ebc567ae.jpg

Markaccus
04-07-2015, 08:28 PM
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/dd/cd/f4/ddcdf4dda0606044bafba299ebc567ae.jpg

That wins.

SirSionis
04-07-2015, 08:32 PM
People only like Hatham because he was British AND a baddie. Everyone knows we play the best baddies :D

Templars aren't ''baddies''.Specially in Rogue.They never were,just like the Assassins aren't the ''good guys''.Shaun even says it in AC2,a game when the Templars were corrupted(Borgias).

Farlander1991
04-07-2015, 08:34 PM
Doesn't matter. Black Flag was last-gen too and it looks way better on my PC. I can run Rogue maxed out on all settings and it still looks sub-par in comparison. It's obvious they didn't spend much time polishing it visually, not because it was last-gen but because it was a rushed game.

If you're on PC you should compare Rogue with AC3 rather than AC4.

AC4 on PC is the next-gen version, so everything from PS4/X1 plus a little bit of PC-exclusive stuff on top of that. AC3 and Rogue have similar technology, though.

Markaccus
04-07-2015, 08:40 PM
Templars aren't ''baddies''.Specially in Rogue.They never were,just like the Assassins aren't the ''good guys''.Shaun even says it in AC2,a game when the Templars were corrupted(Borgias).

Dont spoil the joke with technicalities :-p

Megas_Doux
04-07-2015, 09:50 PM
Less resources than Unity and it's previous gen game. It's not meant to surpass Unity's gameplay because it can't, like Black Flag. Another game limited by the gen it's made in. Dull is subjective.


I prefer AC IVīs gameplay by a mile and about dull...Well I use that term whenever the history and architecture of the setting donīt interest me.

[/QUOTE]





What is AC? That's the question.




Good question and I get the purpose it. However I prefer ACīs in which the urban environment is the star. Iīm not saying I dont want rural areas or even naval stuff at all -I wish there was one in Unity, in fact- but being honest, I almost see that as a spin off.




True but I had higher expectations(in term of story) than Unity. Rogue unlike Unity isn't a filler bigger than Liberations(or other handhelds). We used Shay's memories to signal a second purge against the Assassins. What did Arno's life do? Nothing, he's as irrelevant as it gets. Searching for the Sage was nothing but a waste of time.



Wonīt argue that, Unityīs story is pretty meh to me.




Depends on why you play AC, doesn't it? As someone who plays for the entire story(MD, history & First Civ.) I'd take Rogue over Unity any day. I bet you play for gameplay.



And you are right!!!!!! Iīm a setting and gameplay person mostly. Thatīs why If I donīt like the setting in general -AC III/Rogue- or its particular depiction -ACB Rome-, chances are I wonīt enjoy the game.. Donīt get me wrong, I care for the story, just not that much.





Visiting a country or city only once sounds like a great idea for a series based on history that can be in any time or place.
What did you expect. It's in Colonial America a few year before AC3 and a few years after Freedom Cry. Same country, same environment, same city's etc... It's not supposed to be anything it isn't.



Recycling a location just two years later and 15 years in game is PRETTY cheap by all accounts, at least to me. If instead of what Revelations ended up being -and that game is still a cash cow- we got to play Ezioīs father in Florence -one of my favorite cities- and some other random location, my position would be the same.




And Arno is disabled, both have their own problems.




I had no poblems controlling Arno whatsoever. I do understand that many did, though.




Unity on the other hand twist the revolution on it's head(talk to Ilama about the historical accuracy



Talk to llama....... Well Iīve done it many times lately haha.




It's last gen, don't expect what you can't get.



AC III is last gen and it looks way better than Rogue on my PC; In-game models, NPCīs and environments. Itīs obvious that they just didnīt have time work on them.

VestigialLlama4
04-07-2015, 10:04 PM
Talk to llama....... Well Iīve done it many times lately haha.

Fortunately, you don't have to take my word for it anymore. There is this pretty cool Youtube channel called History Respawned where actual historians comment on several games:

This one has David Andress (author of The Terror) comment on the game's hatchet job:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r47yZIYBUzc

Megas_Doux
04-07-2015, 10:36 PM
Fortunately, you don't have to take my word for it anymore. There is this pretty cool Youtube channel called History Respawned where actual historians comment on several games:

This one has David Andress (author of The Terror) comment on the game's hatchet job:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r47yZIYBUzc

Iīve seen that video and is pretty interesting, thank you for that. But as Iīve told you many times, in which I think Iīve been able to prove that on pretty similar scenarios, you have different judgements. AC games are historical fiction, the disclaimer says so. Thatīs why Acre has that atmosphere of what you would expect from medieval England instead of Israel. Which is why you literally fly over Venice, Forli and other places of Italy and use a MACHINE GUN. The same reason behind ACBīs Rome inaccurate looks or why the greeks are "the bad guys" in ACR, just to name a few.

The difference being how "mainstream" the French Revolution is in comparison to the previous stuff. And no, I didnīt like Unityīs story.........

Hans684
04-08-2015, 04:08 PM
First of all, I hate the idea of a "Kenway saga".

Whatever flouts your boat.


I think AC3 was fine as a standalone story and should have ended there.

True but AC is an annual series so reusing places and gameplay is bound to happen.


I don't see why they had to make Haytham's father the protagonist of AC4 when they could have chosen someone with absolutely no ties to the assassins and Templars.

Black Flag(like Rogue) is an opportunist game(they had a chance and took it), Ubi has said that. Sure they didn't have to use Edward but in term of time line he fit for Black Flag, that's why he's the protagonist.


I mean, I like Edward as a character, but there's nothing that particular required him to be a Kenway.

He was a Kenway before Black Flag.


Rogue feels like bad fan fiction. They just march all the old favorites out one by one (except Connor, lel :rolleyes: ), like "look! It's Adewale, hanging out with Achilles at the Homestead! Isn't that cool? And heeyyy, it's everyone's favorite posh British guy, Haytham, who has no real purpose in the story but everyone wanted to see him again so why not?"

The connections make sense. With Shay hunting Assassins, Adéwalé(who's a legend) showing up trying to stop it makes sense and he wasn't in AC3 so he must have died before that. So him going after a treat isn't a "look who it is" fan servic. He has to show up, if he didn't. What could possibly be more important the the Colonial Brotherhood falling apart?

Achilles is the Mentor and it's his brotherhood that's gone in AC3, Rogue is just saying how and why. Leaving him out of his own brotherhood in game where we destroy it would be ridiculous, what could possibly be more important than his brotherhood being destroyed?

Haytham is the GM so him showing up to deal with the Assassins and giving the new recruit an initiation makes sense. Having Shay running around killing without the GM knowing anything would be bad. It would make Shay a self-proclaimed Templar while he actually is nothing but a skilled ally. Having Haytham controlling his own order makes sense, unless had has personal endeavors like saving his sister. We also know he a attacked the homestead at some point so he did take part in destroying Achilles brotherhood.

Hans684
04-08-2015, 04:30 PM
I prefer AC IVīs gameplay by a mile and about dull...Well I use that term whenever the history and architecture of the setting donīt interest me.

Fair enough.


Good question and I get the purpose it.

Nothing is true :rolleyes:


However I prefer ACīs in which the urban environment is the star.

And it's understandable, but it cuts down times and places. Limitations AC's full potential, AC can be at any time and place(from First Civ. to MD). It's not limited to curtain playstyles(combat, sosial stealth, semi-stealth, stealth, open ended, linear etc...) and perspectives(Assassin, Templar, Viking, Pirate, Ninja etc...). AC is based on pretty much everything, we even have alternate realities(in game name: Calculations). So what is AC?


Iīm not saying I dont want rural areas or even naval stuff at all -I wish there was one in Unity, in fact- but being honest, I almost see that as a spin off.

Understandable but things like rural areas and naval depends on time and place.


Wonīt argue that, Unityīs story is pretty meh to me.

What story? It's irrelevant.


And you are right!!!!!! Iīm a setting and gameplay person mostly.

It shows.


Thatīs why If I donīt like the setting in general -AC III/Rogue- or its particular depiction -ACB Rome-, chances are I wonīt enjoy the game..

Yet you remain.


Donīt get me wrong, I care for the story, just not that much.

Never said you didn't.


Recycling a location just two years later and 15 years in game is PRETTY cheap by all accounts, at least to me.

Recycling and changing. It might be cheap buts it's still in the colonies.


If instead of what Revelations ended up being -and that game is still a cash cow- we got to play Ezioīs father in Florence -one of my favorite cities- and some other random location, my position would be the same.

Reasonable request but it doest explain Achilles fall(something that Rogue is meant to do). Revelations is a cash cow with a relevant story, Unity isn't. So again, I'd take Rogue and Revelations over Unity.


I had no poblems controlling Arno whatsoever. I do understand that many did, though.

Have you seen "If Unity was really French" episode 3?


Talk to llama....... Well Iīve done it many times lately haha.

I've read it.


AC III is last gen and it looks way better than Rogue on my PC; In-game models, NPCīs and environments. Itīs obvious that they just didnīt have time work on them.

Expect AC3 was worked on longer than Rogue, so in this case it's time.

D.I.D.
04-08-2015, 05:32 PM
Iīve seen that video and is pretty interesting, thank you for that. But as Iīve told you many times, in which I think Iīve been able to prove that on pretty similar scenarios, you have different judgements. AC games are historical fiction, the disclaimer says so. Thatīs why Acre has that atmosphere of what you would expect from medieval England instead of Israel. Which is why you literally fly over Venice, Forli and other places of Italy and use a MACHINE GUN. The same reason behind ACBīs Rome inaccurate looks or why the greeks are "the bad guys" in ACR, just to name a few.

The difference being how "mainstream" the French Revolution is in comparison to the previous stuff. And no, I didnīt like Unityīs story.........

I think we have to be careful with that excuse!

It's a common one about games in general, and it's often valid (for example, when someone demands that Game X be more realistic, only for someone else to point out that 90% of Game X is insanely unrealistic). However, the whole point of AC is that we get to inhabit and explore social history.

Yes, alternative histories can often be great, especially if they acknowledge the ways in which they deviate from the accepted record, and most of all if they add a twist which is truly intriguing: a creative use of the real circumstances. Unity is not that. Unity takes one of the most astonishing periods in history, an era dripping in power struggles and conspiracy, and makes it boring. It commits disservices against its personalities which are absolutely jaw-dropping if you know who these people were. The treatment of Thomas Paine -- by his inexplicable absence from the culture of AC3, through to his despicable misrepresentation in Unity -- is a sin, in my view. The repositioning of the monarchy as largely well-meaning victims of the revolution is... unique?

If Unity had taken its setting and augmented it, that would be one thing. Any decent historical fiction writer would give their right arm for a chance to write this story for a project with this budget, due to the potential for new directions. Instead, we were given a game which shows me no sign whatsoever that Amancio and the main writer had any love for this period at all, or any particular excitement about bringing us a French Revolution game. A Paris game, sure.

Markaccus
04-08-2015, 05:45 PM
The setting is revolutuonary france. However, after so far completing sequence 5, Arno and his assassin chums seem to be uninvolved for the most part in the actual revolution. I am even confused as to what side the blue guards are on. They attack the red blokes who pick fights with everybody, but dont seem to be royalist either. Personally i am not that bothered. The game has so far been enjoyable to play.

SixKeys
04-08-2015, 06:37 PM
The setting is revolutuonary france. However, after so far completing sequence 5, Arno and his assassin chums seem to be uninvolved for the most part in the actual revolution. I am even confused as to what side the blue guards are on. They attack the red blokes who pick fights with everybody, but dont seem to be royalist either. Personally i am not that bothered. The game has so far been enjoyable to play.

The blue guards are neutral, they're just the police. That's why they fight extremists (red guys). They're not really on anyone's side, they're just on a payroll.

LatinaC09
04-08-2015, 06:48 PM
I think we have to be careful with that excuse!

It's a common one about games in general, and it's often valid (for example, when someone demands that Game X be more realistic, only for someone else to point out that 90% of Game X is insanely unrealistic). However, the whole point of AC is that we get to inhabit and explore social history.

Yes, alternative histories can often be great, especially if they acknowledge the ways in which they deviate from the accepted record, and most of all if they add a twist which is truly intriguing: a creative use of the real circumstances. Unity is not that. Unity takes one of the most astonishing periods in history, an era dripping in power struggles and conspiracy, and makes it boring. It commits disservices against its personalities which are absolutely jaw-dropping if you know who these people were. The treatment of Thomas Paine -- by his inexplicable absence from the culture of AC3, through to his despicable misrepresentation in Unity -- is a sin, in my view. The repositioning of the monarchy as largely well-meaning victims of the revolution is... unique?

If Unity had taken its setting and augmented it, that would be one thing. Any decent historical fiction writer would give their right arm for a chance to write this story for a project with this budget, due to the potential for new directions. Instead, we were given a game which shows me no sign whatsoever that Amancio and the main writer had any love for this period at all, or any particular excitement about bringing us a French Revolution game. A Paris game, sure.

One thing they failed to do was to show more than one side to the Revolution. The monarchy was immediately seen as this evil obstruction that needed to be removed immediately. Little was shown of the Jacobins and many other parties that tried to rise to power during that time. I get that the game wasn't just about the French Revolution but a little more back story would have been nice. There are some instances where they did such an excellent job in this game I just wish it would have carried over to the entire game. Oh well, enough of my rant.

Markaccus
04-08-2015, 07:15 PM
The blue guards are neutral, they're just the police. That's why they fight extremists (red guys). They're not really on anyone's side, they're just on a payroll.

At least that explains the following scenario......

Walking along minding my own. Red blokes attack me. I dispatch the first one quickly, and turn around to see a few blue blokes helping me. They kill the red blokes.... then start on me!!! I mean, WTF!? I was just strolling through Paris, having a sandwich or something. I was the victim here!? Sort of..

D.I.D.
04-08-2015, 07:17 PM
One thing they failed to do was to show more than one side to the Revolution. The monarchy was immediately seen as this evil obstruction that needed to be removed immediately. Little was shown of the Jacobins and many other parties that tried to rise to power during that time. I get that the game wasn't just about the French Revolution but a little more back story would have been nice. There are some instances where they did such an excellent job in this game I just wish it would have carried over to the entire game. Oh well, enough of my rant.

I don't recall that happening. My problem with the treatment of the royals was that, aside from a single point in one intro video to a side mission, the monarchy was presented in a ridiculously sympathetic way. Louis's execution became this simplistic tragedy where the stupid, bloodthirsty proles murder an innocent man. There's not enough use of the institutional rot from the Palace through aristocratic society that led to the revolution, nor of The Terror. There's no curiosity about the formation of the public response, and very little nuance about the variation in responses.

The worst thing, for me, is that the game comes and goes without giving the player any sense that this is one of the most key moments from history which created the political world that most Europeans and North Americans live in today. Something should have made it clear that, for all the violence and instability of the period, the sufferings of the working class, the middle class and eventually the nobility were catalytic in propelling democracy. It would also be the perfect opportunity to point out that in many ways, the old order of power was not utterly destroyed but somewhat weakened and rearranged, and that recent events have proved that there are parallels with the cusp of that revolution and the world of today. It always annoys me that this series insists on maintaining a modern day and yet refuses to comment on the massive events going on in our real world. We should have had some nod by now, you would think, about the global banking crisis, or the commercialisation of prison systems, or the effects of social media, or any of the other aspects of life that are ripe for inclusion in the AC fiction. Just mentions would do, just something to ground this mythos in our world, rather than yet another in-joke in a text file about other AC games. It's supposed to be an epic power struggle between two giant factions who control everything, but they make our world seem completely calm and featureless.

SixKeys
04-08-2015, 07:25 PM
At least that explains the following scenario......

Walking along minding my own. Red blokes attack me. I dispatch the first one quickly, and turn around to see a few blue blokes helping me. They kill the red blokes.... then start on me!!! I mean, WTF!? I was just strolling through Paris, having a sandwich or something. I was the victim here!? Sort of..

Yep, if you attack anyone in the guards' line of sight, they will assume you're a troublemaker. If you run away from the red guys without attacking them, the guards will treat you as an innocent.

The_Kiwi_
04-09-2015, 12:15 AM
Less resources than Unity and it's previous gen game. It's not meant to surpass Unity's gameplay because it can't, like Black Flag. Another game limited by the gen it's made in. Dull is subjective.



What is AC? That's the question.



True but I had higher expectations(in term of story) than Unity. Rogue unlike Unity isn't a filler bigger than Liberations(or other handhelds). We used Shay's memories to signal a second purge against the Assassins. What did Arno's life do? Nothing, he's as irrelevant as it gets. Searching for the Sage was nothing but a waste of time.



Depends on why you play AC, doesn't it? As someone who plays for the entire story(MD, history & First Civ.) I'd take Rogue over Unity any day. I bet you play for gameplay.



And? It's the Seven Years war, did you expect it to be in China? I get you heavily dislike Colonial America because it's "dull".



Visiting a country or city only once sounds like a great idea for a series based on history that can be in any time or place.



What did you expect. It's in Colonial America a few year before AC3 and a few years after Freedom Cry. Same country, same environment, same city's etc... It's not supposed to be anything it isn't.



And Arno is disabled, both have their own problems.



At least it has a story. Unity on the other hand twist the revolution on it's head(talk to Ilama about the historical accuracy), a poor fan fiction version of Romeo & Juliet and a complete waste of time(talk to Bishop how important Arno is).



It's last gen, don't expect what you can't get.



Naval is expanded a little on and North Atlantic is new.

I agree with this 100%
You said everything I would have
Rogue > Unity

Mr.Black24
04-09-2015, 05:32 AM
First of all, I hate the idea of a "Kenway saga". I think AC3 was fine as a standalone story and should have ended there. I don't see why they had to make Haytham's father the protagonist of AC4 when they could have chosen someone with absolutely no ties to the assassins and Templars. I mean, I like Edward as a character, but there's nothing that particular required him to be a Kenway.
Personally, I like the Kenway Saga. The idea of a family from various backgrounds, heritages, personalities, trials in life, and goals is a pretty neat concept. As a family, they went through a lot, but also mean well in what they do, and it makes it exciting in my book.
Hell, book, Kenway Saga, it sounds like an epic 3 part book! I'd buy that!

Assassin's Creed: The Kenway Family Saga
Book 1: The Pirate
Book 2: The Templar
Book 3: The Assassin

Either that, or an actual well written, heavily funded TV show series like Games of Thrones.

If only AC3 actually ended in not the most poorly constructed ending ever, then yeah, perhaps I would agree. I mean that Speech of his would have done well, however, in a movie/cinematic point of view, Connor's ending is very open for a closure.

Plus when you think about it, no one in their right mind will watch a movie, then read a book to understand a terrible/non-existant ending, they won't do the same for a game, that is just terrible writing and piss poor planning. Sure, his speech is canon, but the fact it wasn't part of the game made it non-existent to the rest of the audience. After all, only a small portion of us knows of his speech.....

Ya know what, scratch that, he had a non existent ending, I mean look at 41:48, he looks at the people, looks at the slaves, makes some dumbfounded expression, and walks off:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-SoDdeyNto
That is it, just that, into nothing. No send off, no resolution, no nothing. At least Arno had a speech and implied that he is pumped to do more, but this..???? How is this, in the terms of writing, acceptable?


Rogue feels like bad fan fiction. They just march all the old favorites out one by one (except Connor, lel :rolleyes: ), like "look! It's Adewale, hanging out with Achilles at the Homestead! Isn't that cool? And heeyyy, it's everyone's favorite posh British guy, Haytham, who has no real purpose in the story but everyone wanted to see him again so why not?"

Like Fatal said, I am going to write a HUGE POST regarding to how Rogue has so many holes and misses in its story! Soon, as I just ordered Windows 8 and I have to figure out a way to back up 16.7 GB of data, since hehe upgrading my PC will remove software programs....I just hope that I can save/recover all my games!


I definitely agree about individual assets like leaves and cliffs, they do look poor. But the overall sense of atmosphere is much more vibrant and immersive to me. You may be right that Rogue's environments feel more artificial, but what matters to me is whether or not I want to spend time in that world. AC3's Frontier felt like a giant, boring wasteland. Rogue's forests feel like a forest should feel: mysterious, beautiful, colorful, teeming with life and interesting details. So many times I find myself stopping in Rogue to look at godrays filtering through the trees which are beautiful and green. When I think of AC3's forests, I think of depressingly washed-out, grey landscapes covered in mist as thick as smoke.


Maybe Rogue's forests feel like an idealized version of a forest, which I'm frankly okay with. Just like Ezio's Italy was an idealized version of Renaissance cities and Constantinople was an idealized version of that location. They were more colorful and clean than the real locations would have been, and why not? These games are about historical tourism, and tourism has always been somewhat artificial in its presentation of locales. Going too fake isn't ideal either, obvs, but I'd rather go for a stylized, slightly artificialized location that feels inviting and immersive than a drab and boring one that's closer to real life.


As for treerunning, AC3's trees were often pointed in only one direction. If you approached from the "wrong" direction, it was often impossible to make your way to the other end of the forest using tree traversal. For example, there was often a clear breadcrumb path towards an enemy camp that gave a perfect vantage point for some tree-based shenanigans, but only if you happened to be facing the camp from the right direction. In Rogue there are a lot more tree paths sprawling in different directions, criss-crossing over the landscape, so that no matter where you approach from, you can always find a way to climb up and take a different path.
After reading this, I don't know that if we should have this talk as a new thread, or perhaps a Podcast worthy episode. There is so much here to discuss lol!:D