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View Full Version : Go-229 is actually a Russian plane!



BlitzPig_DDT
05-31-2004, 12:04 PM
Yeah, surprised the hell out of me too. Especially since it has to be pre-lennin to be Russian and not soviet.

I found out by accident when I was trying to make a campaign with it in it. I modified the dat files for DGen to include the planes I wanted in the drop down lists. I could generate campaigns for the 262 in other mission blocks than the default one, and I could generate campaigns for the He-162 as well. But with the 229, it just beeped at me through the PC speaker.

When I looked in the FB root directory I saw a DGen error log file. In it I saw this -
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>------------------------
seed: 18016546
DGen initialization. Side: de, Rank: 0
MaxBomberSkill=3
Distance=Any
Length=VeryLong
AI=Normal
Missions=Normal
AirIntensity=Medium
GroundIntensity=Medium
Career ID: DeC
Russian plane (GO_229A1) selected for German campaign<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif

BlitzPig_DDT
05-31-2004, 12:04 PM
Yeah, surprised the hell out of me too. Especially since it has to be pre-lennin to be Russian and not soviet.

I found out by accident when I was trying to make a campaign with it in it. I modified the dat files for DGen to include the planes I wanted in the drop down lists. I could generate campaigns for the 262 in other mission blocks than the default one, and I could generate campaigns for the He-162 as well. But with the 229, it just beeped at me through the PC speaker.

When I looked in the FB root directory I saw a DGen error log file. In it I saw this -
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>------------------------
seed: 18016546
DGen initialization. Side: de, Rank: 0
MaxBomberSkill=3
Distance=Any
Length=VeryLong
AI=Normal
Missions=Normal
AirIntensity=Medium
GroundIntensity=Medium
Career ID: DeC
Russian plane (GO_229A1) selected for German campaign<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif

CAP401
05-31-2004, 12:28 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif.... wow, that's, well.., weird

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

Brain32
05-31-2004, 12:42 PM
BUG!!!

Teufel_Eldritch
05-31-2004, 01:39 PM
It's not a bug....it's a unintended feature! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

YANKEE ROSE
-----------
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v57/Teufel_Eldritch/Avatars%20Sigs/lw2.jpg

VF-17_Jolly
05-31-2004, 01:46 PM
It`s a type-o http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

http://www.skyknights.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/jolly.jpg

Maj_Death
05-31-2004, 01:47 PM
Why do I have a feeling this is why I can't get the Me-163 in the german campaign. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maj_Death here, Stab.I/JG1Death at HL

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Baltar
05-31-2004, 01:53 PM
Folks, more evidence of a socialist conspiracy!

LEXX_Luthor
05-31-2004, 02:03 PM
Its a National Socialist conspiracy http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/icon_twisted.gif

Go229 is available only on the Antarctic map--hidden inside the big map files...and only on the winter version of the map.

Hawgdog
05-31-2004, 02:07 PM
History: The Horten Ho IX or Go 229 was conceived by the brothers Reimar and Walter Horten, pioneers of flying wing aircraft. In 1943 they start to design a twin engined jet powered flying wing called Ho IX. At the beginning of 1944, the RLM realized of the existence of design as did Hermann Goering who gave all his support to the Horten brothers and there novel aircraft.
http://tanks45.tripod.com/Jets45/Histories/HoIX/Go-229.htm

Dont cha know the first of our boys to invade the factory were poopin' bricks at the sight of these Flash Gordon looking things?

mortoma
05-31-2004, 02:32 PM
This is a problem that Starshoy could solve. He is the one who developed Dgen and that is a Dgen error. The best way to contact him is to go to the SimHQ forums. He posts over there a lot.

PaulCJ
05-31-2004, 03:01 PM
Hmmm, I wonder if this is what is preventing me from making a campaign with the Bf-109Z as well?

BlitzPig_DDT
05-31-2004, 03:24 PM
Haven't tried the Z or 163. Have you guys modified the appropriate PlanesDe(X).dat file?

The format is really easy to follow, and like I said, it accepted the addition of the He-162 with no problems.

I'm not so sure this is a DGen bug. It might be, but, I added the plane to the appropriate place, and it appeared in the drop down menu next to Berlin in the campaign creation screen. Dunno. I emailed the il2beta address about it. Along with pictures of the broken ASI's on the 229 and 262, showing how and by how much, they are off, as well as mentioning the broken fuel pressure guages in the 229.

The 162 is beautiful because everything is fully functional. If only all the jets were like that. Then I could drop the speedbar and HUD messages.

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif

WereSnowleopard
05-31-2004, 04:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PaulCJ:
Hmmm, I wonder if this is what is preventing me from making a campaign with the Bf-109Z as well?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, I would like to know how can I get Bf-109Z into campaign too as I had problem.

Cheers
Snowleopard

BlitzPig_DDT
05-31-2004, 08:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WereSnowleopard:
Yes, I would like to know how can I get Bf-109Z into campaign too as I had problem.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What did you try?


http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif

Franzen
06-01-2004, 05:38 AM
Well, there's only one way to varify whether it's Russian or not. Scratch a little paint off it. Is it wood underneath? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

I thought I saw a termite in the cockpit. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Fritz Franzen

DuxCorvan
06-01-2004, 05:44 AM
BTW, what's the name of the new Yaks 3 and 9 inside DGen? I can't get them to appear in the menus...

Is there any guide to know how the planes are called? And how can I fight AGAINST them -as AI- in a campaign? This is, how can I put the new planes in as AI?

- Dux Corvan -
http://www.uploadit.org/DuxCorvan/Altamira2.jpg
Ten thousand years of Cantabrian skinning.

Seedking1
06-01-2004, 05:46 AM
RE; All together around three or four flights were made before tragedy struck on the 18/2/1945 with a crash due to engine failure killing the pilot Erwin Ziller.

I am sure most of you are aware of what happened when an (singular) engine failed. The result was a spin that could not be corrected as their was no rudder. Apparently Erwin Ziller was a good friend of the Hortens. You can catch all this on Discover Wings-has been shown many times, but I am sure most of you know that already. Sorry if i have wasted your time.

Udidtoo
06-01-2004, 06:06 AM
Any time that someone can impart some new information my way, be it about this simm, flight or history in general is never a "waste of time" Seedking 1.

..............................
I always have just enough fuel to arrive at the scene of my crash.

ASM 1
06-01-2004, 06:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Seedking1:
RE; All together around three or four flights were made before tragedy struck on the 18/2/1945 with a crash due to engine failure killing the pilot Erwin Ziller.

I am sure most of you are aware of what happened when an (singular) engine failed. The result was a spin that could not be corrected as their was no rudder. Apparently Erwin Ziller was a good friend of the Hortens. You can catch all this on Discover Wings-has been shown many times, but I am sure most of you know that already. Sorry if i have wasted your time.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif The thing ACTUALLY got off the ground? I thought it was only a drawing-board, or full size prototype... never knew it actually FLEW. OK OK 4 test flights isnt much but still... cool!

S!

Andrew

http://home.comcast.net/~nate.r/ta152Hns-2.jpg

KaRaYa-X
06-01-2004, 06:25 AM
Yes it actually flew (several times) but never entered combat service.

http://tanks45.tripod.com/Jets45/Histories/HoIX/Go-229.htm

Here you can see some prototypes being tested so the Go229 was a LOT more than just a design study of some sort...
A manufacturing facility for this new jet had already been established in spring 1945 but US forces captured it (together with some more or less completed planes) and therefore no single unit could be handed over to squadron use

--= flying online as JG=52Karaya-X =--

LEXX_Luthor
06-01-2004, 06:46 AM
Franzen:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Well, there's only one way to varify whether it's Russian or not. Scratch a little paint off it. Is it wood underneath? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Don't get cozy with that idea concerning 1945 German planes. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack


"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

BlitzPig_DDT
06-01-2004, 07:24 AM
Wow, post a joke and people start acting like you asked a serious question. lol http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Franzen, what Lexx is trying to say is that it's wings are indeed wood. Plywood to be exact. Alternating layers of plywood, charcoal dust (yes, intentionally made with RAM - RADAR Absorpent Material) and plywood again. Reimar chose plywood not only because of a material shortage, but mostly because a bullet hole in plywood is just a hole. But a bullet hole in aluminum is a warped, volcano looking thing that would impart a much greater loss of lift than the small hole from the same bullet on plywood.

BTW - You can re-create Lt. Zillers last flight. It is modeled accurately despite the foaming at the mouth of the haters. lol (well, we don't have soft ground to flip it over, and generally speaking, in FB, you don't die from flipping the plane, you have to blow it up.)

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif

Ruy Horta
06-01-2004, 07:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Franzen:
Well, there's only one way to varify whether it's Russian or not. Scratch a little paint off it. Is it wood underneath? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

I thought I saw a termite in the cockpit. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
Fritz Franzen<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


AFAIK these are corrrect, took me a while tho...

BI_1
F2A_B239
GLADIATOR1J8A
HurricaneMkIa
HurricaneMkIIb
HurricaneMkIIbMod
HurricaneMkIIc
I_153_M62
I_153P
I_16TYPE18
I_16TYPE24
I_185M71
I_185M82A
IL_2_1940Early
IL_2_1940Late
IL_2_1941Early
IL_2_1941Late
IL_2I
IL_2MEarly
IL_2MLate
IL_2T
IL_2Type3
IL_2Type3M
LA_5
LA_5F
LA_5FN
LA_7
LA_7B20
LAGG_3SERIES29
LAGG_3SERIES35
LAGG_3SERIES4
LAGG_3SERIES66
MIG_3AM38
MIG_3EARLY
MIG_3SHVAK
MIG_3U
MIG_3UB
MIG_3UD
P_38J
P_38L
P_39N
P_39Q1
P_39Q10
P_40E
P_40M
P_47D10
P_47D22
P_47D27
P_51B
P_51C
P_51D20NA
P_51D5NT
P_63C
P_80A
SPITFIRE5B
SPITFIRE5BCLP
SPITFIRE5BLF
SPITFIRE5BLFCLP
SPITFIRE9C
SPITFIRE9CCLP
SPITFIRE9E
SPITFIRE9ECLP
SPITFIRE9EHF
TB_3_4M_17
TB_3_4M_34R
TB_3_4M_34R_SPB
YAK_1
YAK_1B
YAK_3
YAK_3P
YAK_7A
YAK_7B
YAK_9
YAK_9B
YAK_9D
YAK_9K
YAK_9M
YAK_9T
YAK_9U
YAK_9UT

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif
Ruy Horta

EDIT

FORGOT the Axis!

A6M2
A6M5A
BF_109E4
BF_109E4B
BF_109E7
BF_109E7NZ
BF_109F2
BF_109F4
BF_109G10
BF_109G14
BF_109G2
BF_109G6
BF_109G6AS
BF_109G6Late
BF_109K4
BF_110G2
CR_42
F2A_B239
FW_190A4
FW_190A5
FW_190A6
FW_190A8
FW_190A8MSTL
FW_190A9
FW_190D9
FW_190D9LATE
FW_190F8
G50
GLADIATOR1J8A
GO_229A1
HE_162A2
HurricaneMkIa
IAR_80
IAR_81A
IAR_81C
JU_87B2
JU_87D3
JU_87D5
JU_87G1
KI_84_IA
KI_84_IB
KI_84_IC
ME_163B1A
ME_262A1A
ME_262A1AU4
ME_262A2A
TA_152H1
HE_111H2
HE_111H6
BF_109Z

[This message was edited by rhorta on Tue June 01 2004 at 10:31 AM.]

BlitzPig_DDT
06-01-2004, 07:37 AM
Dux - I'm not sure how to add planes as AI, perhaps changing the difficulty level of the campaign? (not the switches, there is an actual "level" setting somewhere, not sure where to change that either though. lol

For adding planes to be player selectable, use the Skin Folder naming convention - almost. Letter designations need to be all caps, hypens turned to underscores, and trailing hypens dropped. For example, the He-162 is listed in the skin folder as He-162A-2 (I think), so in the .dat file, it has to be HE_162A2.

You'll see the format when you look in the apropriate .dat file (which has to match the campaign you want to make - when making a central LW campaign, you'd mod PlanesDeC.dat, for example).


EDIT - rhorta posted just before me as I was writing this. Looks like he's got the convention you need.

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif

DuxCorvan
06-01-2004, 08:13 AM
Thank you, friends! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif

I also found a way myself: building a fake mission with the planes and then opening the *.mis file, just shows them with their 'inner' names... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

As for AI, I'll make some tests with the files there -making backup copies, of course... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

It's fantastic how fast does this community answer any user question or doubt... I hope they won't split it when PF appears. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

- Dux Corvan -
http://www.uploadit.org/DuxCorvan/Altamira2.jpg
Ten thousand years of Cantabrian skinning.

Franzen
06-01-2004, 09:33 AM
Thx for the info DDT. Nice to know, but you killed my joke http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif. Now I understand why certain wooden planes seem to absorb my ammo. I guess Oleg was right.

Fritz Franzen

IL2-chuter
06-01-2004, 12:49 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by BlitzPig_DDT:

Franzen, what Lexx is trying to say is that it's wings are indeed wood. Plywood to be exact. Alternating layers of plywood, charcoal dust (yes, intentionally made with RAM - RADAR Absorpent Material) and plywood again.[QUOTE]

Intentionally (for radar absorbtion)??? I really don't think so. The jet intakes (and exhausts, for that matter) are so radar horrific that you might not even be able to measure the reduction in echo from the wings. (I haven't mentioned the wing trailing edge . . .) http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

I've seen (and touched . . . was healed of some ailment at the time, I believe) the V-3 and it is one crude (for frontline military) airplane (looks like a homebuilt) BUT, the lofting would be one huge challenge. Get that shape wrong and . . . well . . . http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Also, the V-2 went down when the plane came in short and pilot advanced throttles to fast and flamed one out (who's ever done THAT in FB?) one motor. The yaw was extreme and pilot was late in correction (ya - it had "rudder") coupled with low speed and altitude . . . http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Have a nice day http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

"I fly only Full Real in Il2 Forgotten Battles." -Mark Donohue

BlitzPig_DDT
06-01-2004, 02:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The skin was very thick: 17 mm, all plywood; three times the necessary strength. On the production aircraft, this would be replaced by two 1.5 mm plywood sheets, with a 12 mm layer of sawdust, charcoal and glue mix, sandwiched in between. The charcoal in this much lighter skin would diffuse radar beams, and make the aircraft "invisible" on radar.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is supposed to be Reimars words. That's what I was going on. The real question would be - would such a concoction work? Fiberglass is basically RADAR transparent. Not sure what plywood is like, or what charcoal dust would do to the signal.

You are correct about the turbines, that's one of the issues with the F-15 (the right angles everywhere don't help, but n/m. lol). However, what about WWII RADAR? I don't honestly know one way or the other, but, RADAR was in it's infancy. Reimar could have been way off base, or, it might have worked in it's day. http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/shrug.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I've seen (and touched . . . was healed of some ailment at the time, I believe) the V-3 and it is one crude (for frontline military) airplane (looks like a homebuilt) BUT, the lofting would be one huge challenge. Get that shape wrong and . . . well . . . <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"lofting"? Sorry, not sure what you mean.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Also, the V-2 went down when the plane came in short and pilot advanced throttles to fast and flamed one out (who's ever done THAT in FB?) one motor. The yaw was extreme and pilot was late in correction (ya - it had "rudder") coupled with low speed and altitude . . .<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Reimar wrote that the story he got (he wasn't there to see it) was that one engine went out, this caused a hydraulic pressure loss and popped everything full out (brake, flaps, and gear) and the pilot saw he was coming in short and added throttle but the yaw was too much to deal with with the spoiler system so he throttled down to land short, hit soft dirt, flipped it over and was killed.

I have tried this. It happens in AEP.

Kill one engine (intentionally), come in for landing with flaps and gear down, be too short to hit the strip and throttle up. That bad boy will yaw like it wants to turn around completely. lol

Here is the link for the above quote as well as what I just paraphrased - http://www.nurflugel.com/Nurflugel/Horten_Nurflugels/horten_nurflugels.html

http://operationcarepackage.org/ddtsig.gif