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View Full Version : Ilya and Oleg: Pacific Fighters Backround



ElfunkoI
06-19-2004, 01:10 AM
Looking at the pictures on the front page I saw a cool dev update. I know the project is far from finished, but I wanted to throw in some input (and hopefully you will agree with me).

http://www.il2sturmovik.com/forgotten_battles/devupdate/180604/grab0003.jpg
The broken clouds in this picture are alright, but I was thinking about a cloud cap over mountians. Maybe there are none in this picture, but it reminded me of it. Check out some of these pictures from Kaua'i (real cloud cover).

http://www.nicholaskrebs.com/Hawaii/Kauai/Bali%20Hai%20Hanelei%20Bay.jpg
Here is the same shot, but instead of looking inland it's looking up the coast and out to sea (he is positioned at the peak of the water in Hanalei Bay).
http://www.nicholaskrebs.com/Hawaii/Kauai/Hanelei%20Bay%205.jpg

I like this one cause you can see how varied the cloud cover is, but also how much there is, also it's a shot from the air during a helicopter tour.
http://www.nicholaskrebs.com/Hawaii/Kauai/Helicoptor%20Tour%202.jpg

Damn, theres surf. Looks like north side of the island. I think the right is Hanalei Bay (cause you can see the small wood dock). Also, notice the pretty lines of incoming swell.
http://www.nicholaskrebs.com/Hawaii/Kauai/Helicoptor%20Tour%2036.jpg

Heres what I was looking for. This is the islands dormant volcano. The side the helicopter is approaching is collapsed. Notice the cloud cover, its impossible to see the peak. From what I've heard this is the wettest place on earth and it is never without this type of cloud cover.
http://www.nicholaskrebs.com/Hawaii/Kauai/Helicoptor%20Tour%2045.jpg

Heres another with pretty lines of waves and a great morning sun.
http://www.nicholaskrebs.com/Hawaii/Kauai/Napali%20Coast.jpg

Heres the tarot fields on the way to those towns on the north side.
http://www.nicholaskrebs.com/Hawaii/Kauai/Tarot%20Valley%20near%20Princeville%202.JPG

I don't want the game to be of Kaua'i, though I would love that. Nor is it about surfing. But it is 1C and Ilya's intention to make a realistic looking game, and the water and the clouds are paramount. Anyway, all these photos and much much much more can be found from this persons neat site directory.
http://www.nicholaskrebs.com/Hawaii/Kauai/

"A6?http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Will be A6!"

ElfunkoI
06-19-2004, 01:10 AM
Looking at the pictures on the front page I saw a cool dev update. I know the project is far from finished, but I wanted to throw in some input (and hopefully you will agree with me).

http://www.il2sturmovik.com/forgotten_battles/devupdate/180604/grab0003.jpg
The broken clouds in this picture are alright, but I was thinking about a cloud cap over mountians. Maybe there are none in this picture, but it reminded me of it. Check out some of these pictures from Kaua'i (real cloud cover).

http://www.nicholaskrebs.com/Hawaii/Kauai/Bali%20Hai%20Hanelei%20Bay.jpg
Here is the same shot, but instead of looking inland it's looking up the coast and out to sea (he is positioned at the peak of the water in Hanalei Bay).
http://www.nicholaskrebs.com/Hawaii/Kauai/Hanelei%20Bay%205.jpg

I like this one cause you can see how varied the cloud cover is, but also how much there is, also it's a shot from the air during a helicopter tour.
http://www.nicholaskrebs.com/Hawaii/Kauai/Helicoptor%20Tour%202.jpg

Damn, theres surf. Looks like north side of the island. I think the right is Hanalei Bay (cause you can see the small wood dock). Also, notice the pretty lines of incoming swell.
http://www.nicholaskrebs.com/Hawaii/Kauai/Helicoptor%20Tour%2036.jpg

Heres what I was looking for. This is the islands dormant volcano. The side the helicopter is approaching is collapsed. Notice the cloud cover, its impossible to see the peak. From what I've heard this is the wettest place on earth and it is never without this type of cloud cover.
http://www.nicholaskrebs.com/Hawaii/Kauai/Helicoptor%20Tour%2045.jpg

Heres another with pretty lines of waves and a great morning sun.
http://www.nicholaskrebs.com/Hawaii/Kauai/Napali%20Coast.jpg

Heres the tarot fields on the way to those towns on the north side.
http://www.nicholaskrebs.com/Hawaii/Kauai/Tarot%20Valley%20near%20Princeville%202.JPG

I don't want the game to be of Kaua'i, though I would love that. Nor is it about surfing. But it is 1C and Ilya's intention to make a realistic looking game, and the water and the clouds are paramount. Anyway, all these photos and much much much more can be found from this persons neat site directory.
http://www.nicholaskrebs.com/Hawaii/Kauai/

"A6?http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Will be A6!"

LEXX_Luthor
06-19-2004, 05:06 AM
WOW the FP mounatain map look GREAT http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Full size mountain map we hope -- 190km X 160km "Moscow" size map.


Luthier (Ilya at FP board) hinted that they were making New, Bigger, and MORE clouds for FP maps. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack

"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

crazyivan1970
06-19-2004, 06:27 AM
They do don`t they, I wish they whould make higher res screenies tho...

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

BigKahuna_GS
06-19-2004, 11:35 AM
S!

I hope the maps capture the bueaty of the south pacific.



-----

CCJ: What do you define as the most important things a fighter pilot must know to be successful, relating to air combat maneuvering?

Robert S. Johnson :
It's pretty simple, really. Know the absolute limits of your plane's capabilities.
Know its strengths and weaknesses. Know the strengths and weaknesses of you enemy's fighters. Never fight the way your enemy fights best. Always fight the way you fight best. Never be predictable.

In "Fighter Aces," aviation historians Raymond Tolliver
and Trevor Constable compared Johnson's record with that of two German aces.
Werner Molders was the first ace to score 100 aerial victories and Erich Hartmann is the top scoring ace of all time with 352.

The authors noted that
Johnson "emerges impressively from this comparison." He downed 28 planes in 91 sorties, while Molders took 142 sorties to do the same, and Hartmann, 194.
________



http://www.aviationartcentral.com/images/art/kodera/kodera-blacksheepontheprowl.jpg

"Angels of Okinawa"

BigKahuna_GS
06-19-2004, 11:41 AM
S!

And the bueaty of the Hawaiian Islands too.



----

CCJ: What do you define as the most important things a fighter pilot must know to be successful, relating to air combat maneuvering?

Robert S. Johnson :
It's pretty simple, really. Know the absolute limits of your plane's capabilities.
Know its strengths and weaknesses. Know the strengths and weaknesses of you enemy's fighters. Never fight the way your enemy fights best. Always fight the way you fight best. Never be predictable.

In "Fighter Aces," aviation historians Raymond Tolliver
and Trevor Constable compared Johnson's record with that of two German aces.
Werner Molders was the first ace to score 100 aerial victories and Erich Hartmann is the top scoring ace of all time with 352.

The authors noted that
Johnson "emerges impressively from this comparison." He downed 28 planes in 91 sorties, while Molders took 142 sorties to do the same, and Hartmann, 194.
________



http://www.aviationartcentral.com/images/art/kodera/kodera-blacksheepontheprowl.jpg

"Angels of Okinawa"

ElfunkoI
06-20-2004, 12:17 AM
Ni'ihau was the reason the United States was provided with a brand new Zero fighter! That is the island due W of Kaua'i. The fighter saw a field and he was damaged, he didn't know under the grass was solid uneven volcanic rock. Took off the undercarrage and flipped the fighter on it's back (I think). The Jap pilot tried evasion and shot a local three times before he snapped his neck. It was where the Japanese unable to return to their carriers were told to fly to! I wouldn't go in the water though, too many tiger sharks...

"A6?http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Will be A6!"

ElfunkoI
06-20-2004, 12:25 AM
"This is a fascinating tale, almost completely forgotten now, a side story to the larger dramas of the attack on Pearl Harbor. At the time, it was hugely important in the decision to intern some 100,000 Japanese-Americans living in Hawaii and the West Coast. Simply put, there was a very real fear that in the event of a Japanese invasion of these two areas (which seemed very real after the attack on Pearl Harbor) the local Japanese-Americans would aid the enemy as had happened on Niihau.

Time passes, and political correctness, revisionist history, and the very isolation of the island of Niiahu (which cannot be visited except by permission of the locals or from the Robinson landowners) have all caused this story to disappear into the land of forgotten memories. Nowadays, the PC thinking is that the internment of Japanese-Americans during WWII was a misguided result of paranoia and racism on the part of the American government, and that the US had nothing to fear.

I have read a lot of WWII history and had never come across this story before. About two weeks ago, while vacationing in Hawaii, I found this book in the gift shop of the Visitor's Center of the Arizona Memorial. I was waiting for my scheduled ferry ride out to the USS Arizona Memorial, and speed-read/browsed through this book. I have since filled in some of the details that I missed on my cursory reading of this book with some Internet searches.

The book is written with a chatty, semi-novelized style, typical of so much of current non-fiction history today. I still have a hard time with this style of writing, especially when the author starts to put words and thoughts into the heads of characters in the story that die later on in the story, well before they could have told anybody to record this information for posterity.

Such was how Shigenori Nishikaichi was introduced in this book, wondering what to do as his A6M2 Zero fighter slowly leaked out its last bit of gas. While participating in the attack on Pearl Harbor, the plane's gas tanks were hit by gunfire. Nishikaichi ended up crash-landing in a rough field on Niihau.

A group of native Niihauans, although unaware of the attack on Pearl Harbor (there was no radio on the island), were suspicious enough of his arrival in a shot-up combat aircraft from Japan to take him prisoner, after first confiscating his gun and his military papers.

The two Japanese men on the island were then brought in by the Niihauns to translate for them. It was the Niihauns' intent to hold the pilot and deliver him to the owner of Niihau, Aylmar Robinson, when he stopped by on his weekly visit to the island

In secret conversation with the two Japanese, the pilot turned them against the natives. The older Japanese, who was born in Japan and was married to a Niihaun woman, later became terribly conflicted and fled into the hills for the duration of the incident.

The other Japanese, Yoshio Harada, who had been born in the Hawaiian islands and was married to a Japanese woman, gave full support to the pilot's schemes. He found the pilot's gun, as well as another gun (the only other one on the island), and used these to free the pilot. The two then went on a rampage, threatening and terrorizing the native Niihauns. They were trying to recover the pilot's confiscated papers. They also went back to the Zero fighter plane and set it on fire to keep it out of the hands of the US (the US military would not again have an opportunity to get hold of an intact Zero to study until July 1942)

As this was going on, a group of native Niihauns escaped and began the arduous journey by rowboat to the island of Kauai in order to get help. Aylmar Robinson had not been able to come to the island because travel between the islands had been restricted after the attack on Pearl Harbor. A detachment of US troops landed on Niihau about two days later.

By then the whole incident was over, mainly because of the courage of one of the Niihauns, Ben Kanahele, He got fed up with the threats from the pilot and Harada, and so he (and his wife) attacked them. In the struggle, Nishikaichi shot Kanahele three times, before Kanahele smashed him into a stone wall and killed him. At that point, Harada committed suicide with the other gun. Kanahele survived to tell many versions of his tale to many people, and was later awarded the purple heart and Presidential Medal of Merit.

Harada's wife was jailed for much of the rest of the war. Had Yoshio Harada lived, he almost certainly would have been convicted of treason and executed. After all, he had aided in the escape of an enemy combatant, helped destroy a valuable piece of military intelligence (the Zero fighter plane), and participated in the terrorization of the native Niihauns.

At the time, the Niihau incident was a big story locally, and was also well known to the military and the rest of the government. A song was written about it, and the incident was recorded into many of the early stories and books written about the attack on Pearl Harbor. The incident confirmed the worst fears of the US government and military. An American citizen of Japanese descent, with a previously spotless record, when confronted by an enemy Japanese, chose to abet and give aide and comfort to the enemy that looked just like him.

All in all, it is good to read this book, and to remember the facts as they actually were in the dark days at the beginning of WWII for America." -A Reader, CA

From http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0960913203/103-8352809-2645451?v=glance

"A6?http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Will be A6!"

ElfunkoI
06-20-2004, 12:29 AM
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0960913203/103-8352809-2645451?v=glance

Read the real story in the first review.

"A6?http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Will be A6!"

Copperhead310th
06-20-2004, 01:19 AM
wow Hawaii is simply breath taking. i must go see it one day. who knows if i'll ever be able to afford to see those places i always wanted to go. places like,

Hawaii
Japan
China
Russia- Moscow & St. Petersburg
France- Paris (mostly for the tower & Arch & US war cemetary)
Austarilia
Rome

And most imporantly Scottland.
a land i have never set foot on but
feel as though it is my home. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

http://imageshack.us/files/copper%20sig%20with%20rank.jpg
310th FS & 380th BG website (http://www.310thVFS.com)

ElfunkoI
06-21-2004, 10:18 AM
Tizzop

"A6?http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Will be A6!"

609IAP_Recon
06-22-2004, 05:27 AM
If only those clouds moved across the sky along with the changing time... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Salute!

IV/JG51_Recon

http://www.forgottenskies.com/jg51sig2.jpg

ElfunkoI
06-22-2004, 10:21 AM
Good idea! With over 20knot tradewinds the clouds are always on the move. It's beautiful to have hard rain one moment followed by clear sun shining onto your patch of island the next all at a cool 74*F.

"A6?http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Will be A6!"