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View Full Version : I-16 Engine Cut-outs, Help!



CantabCommie
01-16-2004, 07:52 AM
Please forgive me if this one has come up before (I am new to the forum).

After flying the offline Brewster Campaign & various ground support campaigns for the past few months, I recently started the I-16 campaign. However, despite what I believe to be proper use of Superchargers, fuel mixture, prop pitch, etc... my engine frequently stops dead half-way through mission and cannot be re-started. My hand has been nowehere near the ignition key before this happens and it is usually before combat. It does not happen in a stall, but 'out of the blue'. The common factor is that it usually happens on long-range (for an I-16 anyway) bomber escort missions or fighter sweeps (I have had no problem on scrambles). When it happens my fuel guage is below 1/4 (but in real time, this is only about 10-15 minutes into mission). Am I running out of fuel? Or is it something else that I am not doing right?

Thanks,
CantabCommie

CantabCommie
01-16-2004, 07:52 AM
Please forgive me if this one has come up before (I am new to the forum).

After flying the offline Brewster Campaign & various ground support campaigns for the past few months, I recently started the I-16 campaign. However, despite what I believe to be proper use of Superchargers, fuel mixture, prop pitch, etc... my engine frequently stops dead half-way through mission and cannot be re-started. My hand has been nowehere near the ignition key before this happens and it is usually before combat. It does not happen in a stall, but 'out of the blue'. The common factor is that it usually happens on long-range (for an I-16 anyway) bomber escort missions or fighter sweeps (I have had no problem on scrambles). When it happens my fuel guage is below 1/4 (but in real time, this is only about 10-15 minutes into mission). Am I running out of fuel? Or is it something else that I am not doing right?

Thanks,
CantabCommie

aerick2
01-16-2004, 08:02 AM
It's probably your maneuvering. The nature of the I-16 (and I-153) engine causes it to starve for fuel if you push the nose down too quickly. If you need to dive in a hurry, you should roll over on your back and pull the stick back.

ELEM
01-16-2004, 08:03 AM
The I-16 (and MkI Hurricane) both have carburated fuel systems, as opposed to fuel injection, so will stall with any negative G manouvers. I does sound to me though as if you are just running out of fuel. The I-16 had a very short range so check your % before flight.

pettera
01-16-2004, 08:05 AM
It happens if you have some negative G's. Push the stick forward and it happens quite easily - so never do that! To restart the engine bring the plane into a dive and use the I-key (engine toggle ON/OFF). If you have sufficient speed it will restart.

This is supposed to model a nasty property of the real engine.

Hope this solves it

Petter

mllaneza
01-16-2004, 08:06 AM
Negative Gs in an I-16 will starve the engine and cause a shutdown you may not be able to recover from. The Hurricane has this too, it's why I fly the BUffalo for the Finns.

Veteran - Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force. 1993-1951.

CantabCommie
01-16-2004, 08:14 AM
Thanks Guys! I will try what Pettera recommends. I'm aware of the engine cut-out as I dip my nose, so I don't do that (in level flight anyway, in a dogfight, well...). Some of these cut-outs have happened in a relative gentle turn when in formation, or when banking to view something below. If it is not the fuel Pettera's solution should fix it.

If it is the fuel... Is it possible for the dynamic campaign system to invent missions that are impossible for your aircraft's range? If so, what is the best way around this? I seem to remember something in the instructions or ReadMe about setting maximum km lengths for missions. Is this the way?

CantabCommie
01-16-2004, 08:19 AM
Mllaneza, I too love the Buffalo (it is my plane of choice). I believe the Finns were the best pilots of WWII. I just wish the AI I-16 pilots in the Finnish Campaign were as bad at flying the I-16 as I am http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I'd like to see a few more of them (or any of them?) stall out in combat!

Capt.LoneRanger
01-16-2004, 08:49 AM
@ CantabCommie

Sorry, but AI never stalls, has problem with engines concerning overheat and stalling them, or red- and blackouts, btw.

It has been better with 1.21, especially when being damaged, but they still fly like robots. =(


greets
Capt.LoneRanger

http://www.cptloneranger.privat.t-online.de/SIG2.jpg

LEXX_Luthor
01-16-2004, 09:40 AM
Sometimes I~16 engine cuts out from neg gees even if you don't think you pushed enough to make it cut out, and the loss of power surpises you. Other times you can push the stick forward when at high speeds as far as you can and hold it there and the tach chokes but the engine doesn't cut out. Maybe its a random thing.

Anyway, when you see the tachometer goto Zero, you can start engine if you are faster than ~200km/hr. Basically, don't fly I~16 at slow speed at very low altitude in case this stuff happens.

This brings back some memories, my first playtesting of the FB was I~153 over the Crimea map (just coming off the Flanker series with its fast jets over the Crimea) and I noticed I *always* ran out of fuel within 10 minutes or so. It was the engine cut out.

If you must, roll inverted and pull back if you need rapid nose down change.

__________________
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Stanly is a moron, kai is a walking dead beet, Xev just want sex.

CantabCommie
01-16-2004, 04:24 PM
Lexx, I agree with what you are saying about the unpredicatbility of the cut-out. I have never had it cut in a dogfight, but usually while doing relatively slight adjustments while cruising. After making the first posting on this thread I have tried 2 campaign missions trying the suggestions out.

In the first mission it cut-out on the way back home 35 minutes into a bomber escort scenario. My fuel was at around one-quarter. I was at 1700m and dove to 500 to pick up speed for an engine re-start. I hit ignition. It coughed a bit, but did not re-start. I bailed successfully.

In the second mission I was absolutely paranoid about doing nothing to upset the engine. Everytime I needed to dive I rolled onto my back. I even managed to down a Bf109 while being paranoid. My landing had the most gradual approach I had ever done, and went well. 32 minutes in the air, no problems.

Conclusions: 1) the best way to get out of an I-16 engine cut-out is not to let it happen in the first place 2) based on these and previous missions, the cut-outs always seem to take place well into the mission -- do they become more likely as your fuel runs low?, 3) I have not yet suceeded with the re-start technique -- any further tips on this one?

I now go to relax for a while flying the Brewster -- as Juutilainen said, it is the "gentleman's travelling plane."

Many Thanks Comrades!
CantabCommie

LEXX_Luthor
01-16-2004, 08:29 PM
CantabCommie:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I have not yet suceeded with the re-start technique -- any further tips on this one?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes. Sometimes I have to try restart several times. Also, watch the engine guages, as it takes time for the engine to get running again it seems. Make sure you do restart at speeds faster than 200km/hr, and you can just do test flying in QMB to find the minimum airspeed for restart.

Also, try closing throttle first and then restarting. I *may* (or may not) have noticed that makes a difference, not sure though because I have not experimented mainly because I usually don't have a problem re~starting, although, again, sometimes I have to try a second time and wait a few seconds and watch the guages. Its acutally one of the things that make the I-16 kinda fun. I-153 and Hurricane cuts out too sometimes. Hurricane seems to re-start much easier, and restarting is not speed dependent in Hurricane (it is for I-153).

What Patch are you using?

__________________
RUSSIAN lexx website http://www.lexx.ufo.ru/members.shtml
Stanly is a moron, kai is a walking dead beet, Xev just want sex.

CantabCommie
01-17-2004, 08:30 AM
Lexx -- I just tried in QMB. You really have to torture the I-16 to get the engine to cut-out in QMB (maybe there is something to fuel levels playing a part in this). Anyway, I tried with open & closed throttle, starting at 5000m so I had lots of altitude to play with. I did this on several reflys as well. No go on restarts at speeds up to 420kmh. Also no go flying level, and no go in different dive attitudes. It is the Ignition key I'm supposed to be hitting right? Should I be doing anything else? In the meantime I am perfecting my I-16 dead stick belly-landing technique...http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Re. patch. To my shame I must admit to flying sans patch. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif After playing the original IL*2 offline for a year, I only upgraded to FB in November (shortly thereafter I started logging on to the forum).The original IL*2 ran very smoothly on my machine. FB was a nightmare to keep from stuttering, but eventually I got it running smooth by fiddling with virtual memory and changing a driver. Seeing threads where people talk about having stutter problems after upgrades I have held-off from downloading (especially since very few of the marked changes in the ReadMe doc have to do with planes I fly). Still, the new paid add-on will probably make me bite the bullet (and upgrade my meager 256mb of RAM).

CantabCommie
01-17-2004, 09:53 AM
I just got finsihed reading N. G. Goldonikov's pretty extensive interview on the flying characteristics of the I-16 (interview part.1, accessed via: http://airforce.users.ru/lend-lease/english/index.htm ).

He does not mention any problems with engine cut-outs, but he stressed that: "It could fall into a spin at the slightest overhandling of the stick." This seems to me to be a different issue.

Rather, there is another comment which is of more interest. He puts I-16 endurance at 20-35 minutes (if in combat), or 40-45 minutes (cruising only). This takes me back to theory number one: engine cut-outs relate to nearly being out (or really being out) of fuel.The mission times where the engines cut on me are all 30minutes+ (that is if you don't count the QMB tests, where I had to alternately red-myself-out and black-myself-out repeatedly in order to get the engine to cut).

Also interesting to note in this interview (part 1) is that he says I-16 pilots did not mess with prop pitch during combat (they would ease off prop pitch slightly before engaging and then use throttle only during the fight).

Heavy_Weather
01-17-2004, 09:56 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

"The wise man is often the man who plays dumb."

LEXX_Luthor
01-17-2004, 10:29 AM
PATCH, there ya go. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

No air restart for I-16 and I-153 before Patch 1.11 I do Believe. Make a copy of your FB installation, yes its that simple, call folder C:\FB2 or something, and download Patch 1.21 if you can or ask somebody to send a Patch on CD (the new addon CD will come with latest Patch I think) and APPLY PATCH OVER THE COPY FOLDER and you can experiment without messing up your basic install of FB.

__________________
RUSSIAN lexx website http://www.lexx.ufo.ru/members.shtml
Stanly is a moron, kai is a walking dead beet, Xev just want sex.