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compass1
02-29-2004, 12:19 PM
Like four colour British roundels on top of wings of White Dakotas! Ground troops fighting in Normandy pre-6 June(BoE) Am I right to want to see correct details or have I become a boring pedantic? I,ve studied a/c markings and built models for 30 years and IL2 is the greatest thing since sliced bread but these things tick me off. Anybody else have a wrong detail that bugs them?

compass1
02-29-2004, 12:19 PM
Like four colour British roundels on top of wings of White Dakotas! Ground troops fighting in Normandy pre-6 June(BoE) Am I right to want to see correct details or have I become a boring pedantic? I,ve studied a/c markings and built models for 30 years and IL2 is the greatest thing since sliced bread but these things tick me off. Anybody else have a wrong detail that bugs them?

oFZo
02-29-2004, 12:27 PM
I usually think something along th elines of "Hey, I couldn't do it better myself." http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

-oFZo

Eurotroll

"I have given you all the seed bearing plants and herbs to use." - The Bible

horseback
02-29-2004, 12:32 PM
Did you spoil the ending of 'Saving Private Ryan" for everyone else in the theater by shouting "Mustangs weren't tankbusters! And those are 78th FG markings and that group didn't get Mustangs until December '44! And they've got fin fillets! No fin fillets 'til September '44! What a ripoff! Spielberg's a moron! I want my money back!"

I didn't either; I did bite my tongue to keep from doing so. Just remember how far plastic models have come from the old Aurora days, and consider how far this medium has come in a much shorter period of time. It'll get better.

cheers

horseback

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944

SeaFireLIV
02-29-2004, 12:36 PM
Well, compass, you`ve studied and built these things for 30 years, so you`re going to be especially tuned to such details. Like me, as an artist I see little errors and mistakes in my work/ other people`s work that other people tend not to notice. It`s normal.

But no, those little details in FB, I simply don`t notice- until someone points them out, and I don`t worry about it as long as it doesn`t ruin the sim for me.

BlindHuck
02-29-2004, 12:45 PM
I live with'em, too. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Haven't personally heard anyone complain of pitot tube on wrong wing of 190 A's and wrong graphic for 109/262 canopy jettison (both 2nd and 3rd elements should fall away). http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif Silly US markings option has been mentioned. I just suck it up and deal http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gif . Great game http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif !!!!

"I race full real exclusively in IL2:The Forgotten Battles." - Mark Donohue

arcadeace
02-29-2004, 12:46 PM
It doesn't spoil my enjoyment. As you become immersed in mission combat eventually you probably won't even care. Then you'll think about other things, much more substantial http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_222_1073167658.jpg

Steaky_361st
02-29-2004, 12:49 PM
I just tell myself that its a game and the point is to have a good time...

-----------------------------------------------
Steaks
Cpt 375thFS
"And you thought the meat last night was tough..."

SeaFireLIV
02-29-2004, 12:51 PM
Hmmm, actually, I would be a little annoyed to notice troops fighting pre-June 6th. Never noticed that bit! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif It could be paratroopers setting things up! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Chuck_Older
02-29-2004, 12:59 PM
One thing that I have to keep reminding myself is that these guys who make the sim aren't neccessarily experts on every detail of WWII or even aviation. They get a whole lot of things right, however, and I keep reminding myself every time I see something wrong (like the tail wheel on the P-51 doesn't spin http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ) that they might have missed a detail or two, but I can't make a flight sim! So I call it more than an even trade. And it just keeps getting better every time it's upgraded, and new skins are always coming, it seems. I have 10 P-51s from the 361st now...Heaven! (Thanks to all the great skinners out there!)

As far as pre- June 6 landings go, that doesn't bug me much- real participants didn't know that Jun 6th would go down in history as "THE Day" before it happened, so if I am putting myself in the shoes OF a participant, it doesn't spoil my immersion. I would know it was coming, but not the exact day, and if May 29th is "THE Day" in a sim like FB, well, - it isn't historically correct, but since it could have been so, I don't sweat it too much. Now, if FB were scripted somehow to be historically accurate in terms of that, I would find that annoying. But in a dynamic campaign, it doesn't even become a factor to me.

*****************************
Did anyone prophesize these people? Only Travis. Come in Travis! ~ Clash

BuzzU
02-29-2004, 01:44 PM
What bothers me the most is same side planes killing each other.

Buzz
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http://img25.photobucket.com/albums/v76/Jamnut/clark19.jpg

Chuck_Older
02-29-2004, 01:49 PM
Buzz-

First, is that Jimmy Clark in that painting? I think it is....at Spa, maybe? I'm a big Clark fan http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Second- do you mean, for example, my wingman cutting my tail off with his guns as he manuevers too closely to me when firing at my target, or the fact that sometimes friendly a/c accidentally miss their targets and hit friendlies that are flying by in general, like, a Yak misses a FW, and the rounds that missed slam into a bomber the Yak was escorting?

*****************************
Did anyone prophesize these people? Only Travis. Come in Travis! ~ Clash

BuzzU
02-29-2004, 01:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
Buzz-

First, is that Jimmy Clark in that painting? I think it is....at Spa, maybe? I'm a big Clark fan http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Second- do you mean, for example, my wingman cutting my tail off with his guns as he manuevers too closely to me when firing at my target, or the fact that sometimes friendly a/c accidentally miss their targets and hit friendlies that are flying by in general, like, a Yak misses a FW, and the rounds that missed slam into a bomber the Yak was escorting?

*****************************
Did anyone prophesize these people? Only Travis. Come in Travis! ~ Clash
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sure is Jim Clark in the Lotus 33. I've been a fan since 1962. My main sim is GPL, and i'm on the beta team for the 65 cars like in the painting.


No, i'm not talking about friendly fire. I mean DF servers that let you fly any plane. I can't stand seeing a P-51 shooting down another P-51.

Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------
http://img25.photobucket.com/albums/v76/Jamnut/clark19.jpg

Platypus_1.JaVA
02-29-2004, 01:55 PM
Well, getting details wrong in movies or games is one thing. It starts me thinking and I look to the whole product. Clearly, Il-2/FB is made with love and much attention for small little details and always with historic accuracy in mind. So, I don't bother about small imperfections. However, the Iron-Eagle movies are just plain bad. They involve alot of flying but, they made the movie, just for making money. They didn't care about getting obvious techical details right (like spawning bombs and rockets load-outs on the F-16's). They where only concerned about their pockets. Well, That made the movie bad.

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge,
ye shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be measured
to you again.

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Chuck_Older
02-29-2004, 02:00 PM
Buzz, GPL is my other weakness...how goes the 65 carset? You must be around on the GPLEA boards, I haven't been there in a while, although I have DL'd many updates. I have all the v.2 cars I think, and I have the Zandy update. I'm a 49 driver (aren't all Clark fans?), but I haven't practised for some time...must be rusty. I'd love to hear progress on the sim's 65 carset or the sim's current status in general. Amazing it's still so good. I don't want to hijack the thread, if you get a chance could you PT me about some of that? I'd appreciate it. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

About the friendly fire...I can see what you mean. I guess that would bug me, too. I'll have to be picky about online games I pick, I guess.

*****************************
Did anyone prophesize these people? Only Travis. Come in Travis! ~ Clash

BuzzU
02-29-2004, 02:11 PM
You need to go to RSC again. A new Lotus 49 was released today. I'm all over the RSC forum. I use my real name there. (Pete Gaimari), and I used to use Jamnut.

btw..The 65 mod is not just a carset. It's completely different physics to match the 65 cars. A complete mod with new menus, setups, 65 rank etc.

Buzz
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http://img25.photobucket.com/albums/v76/Jamnut/clark19.jpg

adlabs6
02-29-2004, 03:07 PM
Howdy Buzz, long time no see.

No, small details like that don't bother me too much. I think that if they were to have paid more attention there, maybe something else would be wrong in its place, hehe.

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Chuck_Older
02-29-2004, 03:10 PM
Thanks Buzz

*****************************
Did anyone prophesize these people? Only Travis. Come in Travis! ~ Clash

SUPERAEREO
02-29-2004, 05:37 PM
I am a bit of a nerd when it comes to historical detail and camouflage and markings, so I tend to pick errors up, but it's something I can happily live with for the sake of this sim.

S!

panther3485
03-01-2004, 02:25 AM
Hi guys!

I mostly agree with Compass1 on this issue - in fact, if anything I'm probably much more anal and pedantic than he is.....

BUT I don't expect others to be the same and I certainly don't expect movie producers or even game/sim makers to get EVERY detail right. If I expected that, I'd be disappointed every time because I've never yet seen a movie or combat sim that was ABSOLUTELY 100% CORRECT in every historical and technical detail.

When I saw 'Saving Private Ryan' at the movies for the first time, I noticed a few technical faux-pas but like the other writer on this thread, I was not siezed by the urge to jump up and shout about what was wrong. On the other hand, I did discuss these points with some of my mates afterwards!

Everybody's different of course, and some people would see me as a pain-in-the-arse perfectionist but to me it's just a reflection of my attitude to most things in life.

I'm pretty much a 'Do it right or don't do it at all' type of guy and if you are going to produce a combat simulation that claims to represent historical and technical reality, every REASONABLE EFFORT should be made to ensure that it's correct in detail as well as in outline.

But this doesn't mean we should expect PERFECTION. Realistically, there needs to be some tolerance for error and we might all have different ideas as to exactly how much error is deemed acceptable.

I too have spent decades around scale models and have judged in many a competition. For things you can actually measure, such as dimensional accuracy, I always apply what I call my 'Three Percent Rule' - that is, if something measures out to within 3% of correct scale, it's good enough for top marks.

I apply a roughly similar benchmark to certain movies and simulations. If they are obviously intended to represent historical and technical reality, they get 'top marks' in my estimation, if the errors are small/insignificant enough to represent what I feel is no more than about '3 percent' of the overall effort. Of course, you can't measure this with any accuracy, it's just my estimation.

It must be said that very few films or combat sims approach this level and just because they don't is no reason to look down on them. If a sim is enjoyable and highly immersive, something like 75-80 percent accuracy is fine by me.

And at this level, most players either wouldn't know or wouldn't care if they did!

Just my thoughts -

So do I allow minor inaccuracies to spoil my enjoyment? No, but I do take note of them and hope for future improvement. I might even post suggestions. Reckon that's all you can do, really.

IL-2 and FB both stack up pretty good in my opinion.

Best regards to all,
panther3485

F19_Ob
03-01-2004, 04:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
Well, compass, you`ve studied and built these things for 30 years, so you`re going to be especially tuned to such details. Like me, as an artist I see little errors and mistakes in my work/ other people`s work that other people tend not to notice. It`s normal.

But no, those little details in FB, I simply don`t notice- until someone points them out, and I don`t worry about it as long as it doesn`t ruin the sim for me.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



I agree with seafire on this. Keepin up an interrest for years makes U a bit of an expert automatically.

But even experts should be able to enjoy things at different levels.
I am also an artist and I make illustrations on many levels and for different reasons and Im very amused with fast scetches wich mostly arnt perfect.

Johann sebastian Bach ( the composer ) was unequaled in his time and he enjoyed to listen to other musicians, even lesser skilled artists and actually got new ideas from people who didnt have any musical skill at all.



Im very happy with FB even if some details are incorrect. I cant find any sim that comes close to it.

Bearcat99
03-01-2004, 07:33 AM
Its just a mild annoyance.... for me the overall quality of the sim overrides any small details like that. Im glad we are getting the B &C Mustangs.... The biggest thing for me in the beginning was having to use Pe-8s in place of B-17s for bomb runs....... this sim has come far in it's first year...

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Oso2323
03-01-2004, 10:55 AM
I'm only bugged if it's a major feature. My pet peeve will be pointy tail Spitfire ix's over Normandy (the RAF had far more standard tail units). That's a big spotting feature, IMHO.

But then again, I often set up relatively small ahistorical battles in QMB. And Extreme One's great BoB campaign is set in Finland - so sometimes you just have to suck it up.

tttiger
03-01-2004, 11:32 AM
I'm pretty picky when it comes to accuracy but, no, I won't refuse to play the sim just because someone got it wrong.

For example, are those really 4th FG colors the Mustangs are wearing in Extreme One's "Real Deal"? Sure looks like Tuskegee Airmen to me. But it's such a great campaign, I wouldn't toss it over that.

When I lived on the mainland (I'm in Hawaii now), restoring old military vehicles was among my hobbies and searching (sometimes for years) for exactly the right fire extinguisher or rifle rack or radio equipment for a particular vehicle was a big part of the fun. Some of that stuff is very rare. I would never put the wrong stuff in and pretend it was the correct equipment. On the other hand, the only vehicle I brought over here was a totally correct M-37CDN 3/4 ton Dodge. When they were shooting "To End All Wars" here on Kauai, they needed a Japanese army truck but there were none on the island. They rented my M-37 (and me as stunt driver; Kiefer Sutherland rode in the back playing a POW and I bounced him around pretty good http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif) and we fixed it (and me) up to look as Japanese as we could. So, sometimes you have to make do...

I have to agree completely with another post: DFs in which Yaks are fighting Yaks and FWs are fighting FWs go waaaay beyond what is acceptable to me. But I tend to look at most DF arenas as completely non-historical anyway and stay out of them. A few, like greatergreen, are the exception.

And I cannot understand people who make fictional skins and post them on IL-2 Skins as "Historical-Near Perfect" when they are just make believe. I refuse to use those. There are too many correct skins out there.

My two cents.

Aloha,

ttt

"I want the one that kills the best with the least amount of risk to me"

-- Chuck Yeager describing "The Best Airplane."

[This message was edited by tttiger on Mon March 01 2004 at 10:42 AM.]