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XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 04:52 AM
Whenever A pilot is killed by bullets but the plane is unharmed, shouldn't the plane go crazy, wouldn't the pilot be slumped over the controls, dead, pushing the stick foward? Whenever the pilots get killed, they instantly freeze up! and the same maneuver gets pulled again and again. Can we at least have it so a killed pilot either stalls out and spins or dives straight into the ground?

It would help realism, wouldnt it? I don't want this implemented any time soon as it would slow up everything, it's just something I saw and wanted to comment on.

Boosher-PBNA
----------------
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XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 04:52 AM
Whenever A pilot is killed by bullets but the plane is unharmed, shouldn't the plane go crazy, wouldn't the pilot be slumped over the controls, dead, pushing the stick foward? Whenever the pilots get killed, they instantly freeze up! and the same maneuver gets pulled again and again. Can we at least have it so a killed pilot either stalls out and spins or dives straight into the ground?

It would help realism, wouldnt it? I don't want this implemented any time soon as it would slow up everything, it's just something I saw and wanted to comment on.

Boosher-PBNA
----------------
<center>Heaven is a place where the French are the cooks, the British are the butlers, the Germans are the mechanics, and the Swiss are the politicians. Hell is a place where the British are the cooks, the French are the butlers, the Swiss are the mechanics and the Germans are the politicians.<center>
<center>Boosher-ProudBirds-VFW<center>
http://proudbirdswing.tripod.com/proudbirds.htm

http://www.escadrila54.com/logo_sm.jpg

<center><marquee><FONT COLOR="RED"><FONT SIZE="+1">"The ProudBirds..Fly High and Proud..~S~"<FONT SIZE> </marquee>

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 05:04 AM
Boosher-PBNA wrote:
- Whenever A pilot is killed by bullets but the plane
- is unharmed, shouldn't the plane go crazy, wouldn't
- the pilot be slumped over the controls, dead,
- pushing the stick foward?

Maybe.

- Whenever the pilots get killed, they instantly
- freeze up! and the same maneuver gets pulled
- again and again.

Sometimes.

- Can we at least have it so a killed pilot either
- stalls out and spins or dives straight into the
- ground?

Let me see if I understand you correctly... All the things out there to worrie about in this sim and this is at the top of your list?

- It would help realism, wouldn't it?

Not necessarily.. Unless you incorrectly belive that every dead pilot resulted in slumping over the controls... As they incorrectly assumed that every dead pilot resulted in frozen controls.. Thiz the thing with probability... just too many to model.. And no mater how many you do model, there will all ways be one you missed that SOMEONE will mention as if they miss it! Simple truth is they are probably more than aware of it, just had better things to do... Note, things they consider to be better... not to imply that I think they are better things to do.. But in this case I cant think of anything this would be better than? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


- I don't want this implemented any time soon as
- it would slow up everything,

Ah.. good, then you wont be passing out from holding your breath or anything like that... right? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

- it's just something I saw and wanted to comment on.

Same here.


TAGERT
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XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 11:17 AM
PK:s usually ended with the pilot pushing/dragging on redder pedals and either slump on control column or "pullup" on it as a last furiuos attempt to evade the hitting bullets.

All tose control inputs make the plane either stall or head to the ground. Now we get planes flying circles and sometimes climbing forever.

It wouldnt be too hard to program a max stick pull-max rudder+pull-max rudder+push etc.

-Possu


PS Tagert doesnt have to comment on this if he is unable to bring something new into the thread. We can all flame and put ppl down but it really doesnt help make this sim any better.

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 03:46 PM
hello!

Plane crashes or keeps flying doesnt matter you re dead http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Would like a fix to the bailing out model so that the pilot croutches together insegad of looking like an extreme sports skydiver http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
And other options like when being injured you loose control of your right arm and stuff like that.
cant use throttle nad flaps etc

but good post about the death model, something that isnt talked about much

CD_Turbo

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 04:13 PM
TurboPorsas wrote:
- PK:s usually ended with the pilot pushing/dragging
- on redder pedals and either slump on control column
- or "pullup" on it as a last furiuos attempt to evade
- the hitting bullets.

Huh.. I guess I dont have the book writen by all the dead discribing what they did just after they died. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

- All tose control inputs make the plane either stall
- or head to the ground.

Maybe.

- Now we get planes flying circles and sometimes
- climbing forever.

Which did happen sometimes.

- It wouldnt be too hard to program a max stick
- pull-max rudder+pull-max rudder+push etc.

Are you a programer?

- PS Tagert doesnt have to comment on this if he is
- unable to bring something new into the thread.

Nothing new, just a pointing out a few FACTS.

- We can all flame and put ppl down but it really
- doesnt help make this sim any better.

We? You have a FRENCH mouse in your pocket?


TAGERT
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XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 05:09 PM
In most cases I've seen a pilot kill result in exactly what I would expect - the plane immediately returns to 1G flight.

For example, I've gotten a pilot kill on an I-16 during a LAN game, and at the time we were both in a high G turn, near the edge of blackout. The instant I hit the pilot his plane stopped the high G turn and continued on with a much less steep 1G turn.

I remember being impressed by it, since I'd read so many accounts from pilots in WW2 where they knew they'd killed the other pilot because the plane stopped maneuvering and just went to 1G, trimmed flight.

Besides, if a pilot is strapped in (as they should be), how could they possibly slump over enough to push on the controls? The same goes with rudder pedals. Those take some effort to push. If the pilot is truly dead, they're not going to be pushing or pulling on anything, and the plane will attempt to return to whatever condition it was trimmed for prior to the pilot's death.

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 03:53 AM
BinaryFalcon wrote:
- In most cases I've seen a pilot kill result in
- exactly what I would expect - the plane immediately
- returns to 1G flight.
-
- For example, I've gotten a pilot kill on an I-16
- during a LAN game, and at the time we were both in a
- high G turn, near the edge of blackout. The instant
- I hit the pilot his plane stopped the high G turn
- and continued on with a much less steep 1G turn.
-
- I remember being impressed by it, since I'd read so
- many accounts from pilots in WW2 where they knew
- they'd killed the other pilot because the plane
- stopped maneuvering and just went to 1G, trimmed
- flight.
-
- Besides, if a pilot is strapped in (as they should
- be), how could they possibly slump over enough to
- push on the controls? The same goes with rudder
- pedals. Those take some effort to push. If the
- pilot is truly dead, they're not going to be pushing
- or pulling on anything, and the plane will attempt
- to return to whatever condition it was trimmed for
- prior to the pilot's death.

Very good point! And now that you mention it, I have seen the same too.. So.. looks like once again, the sim is closer to reality then peoples FEELING will allow them to belive! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



TAGERT
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XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 12:56 PM
tagert wrote:
- TurboPorsas wrote:
-- PK:s usually ended with the pilot pushing/dragging
-- on redder pedals and either slump on control column
-- or "pullup" on it as a last furiuos attempt to evade
-- the hitting bullets.
-
- Huh.. I guess I dont have the book writen by all the
- dead discribing what they did just after they died.


I then again have a nice collection of books written by ww2 pilots and/or from their memoirs.
They do remember how the enemy plane flew after getting hits in the cocpit. Do you even read books?

-
-- All tose control inputs make the plane either stall
-- or head to the ground.
-
- Maybe.


actually they usually do. Go ask another pilot if you do not trust me.


-
-- Now we get planes flying circles and sometimes
-- climbing forever.
-
- Which did happen sometimes.


True, I'm sure sometimes it did. But then a gush of wind or a cloud took the plane off-balance and it started to plummet etc.


-
-- It wouldnt be too hard to program a max stick
-- pull-max rudder+pull-max rudder+push etc.
-
- Are you a programer?


Yes. Are you?


-
-- PS Tagert doesnt have to comment on this if he is
-- unable to bring something new into the thread.
-
- Nothing new, just a pointing out a few FACTS.


Fact is you have difficulty accepting new ideas since you are seemingly unable to produce any yourself. (I meant ideas but I hope for the sake of the us military genepool that you just plain DONT PRODUCE /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif )


-
-- We can all flame and put ppl down but it really
-- doesnt help make this sim any better.
-
- We? You have a FRENCH mouse in your pocket?


No, i meant people in general, then it is customary to use the plural form. For example "We all know fire burns" I know many people in the states suffer from poor education and even the "president" is a functional illiterate. What can we expect from a minion of his? Do not worry though, you might just be annoying and stupid.

-
-
-
- TAGERT

Yeah, we know.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- If WAR was not the ANSWER.. Than what the H was your
- QUESTION?

Maybe you would know if you listened to other people.

XyZspineZyX
08-21-2003, 02:42 AM
TurboPorsas wrote:
- I then again have a nice collection of books written
- by ww2 pilots and/or from their memoirs.

Join the club.

- They do remember how the enemy plane flew after
- getting hits in the cocpit. Do you even read books?

Yes and the one's I have read dont agree with your statements. In that the one's I have read make a point of how important it is to be strapped in.. Which is in direct contrast to your statment of "slump on the control column".

In my reading I have also come across statments where the pilot said he knew he had killed the pilot because the plane stopped manuvering.. ie if making a 2g turn, it suddenly stop turing (pulling g's) as if the pilot stop applying pressure. Which is in direct contrast to your statment of "usually ended with the pilot pushing/dragging on redder pedals".

All of which is not to imply that your exceptions to the rule couldnt have happened, only that they were just that exceptions to the rule. Which is probally why IL2 models spent time modeling the rule instead of the exceptions.

Does that answer your question with regards to things I have read?

- actually they usually do.

Usually? I doubt that. Posiable? Yes, but again an exception to the rule. Oh, and please dont confuse what it is we are talking about.. To be clear.. we are NOT talking about the violent manuvers a pilot may use to evade an attack while alive.. We are talking about what the ac does once he is dead.. Besides the death shank exceptions.. most dead guys dont interact with the controls much once dead. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

- Go ask another pilot if you do not trust me.

No need really. I have books too, see above it you dont trust me.. Or check into Newtons theory about an object in motion will remain in motion thingie.. if you do not trust me.

- True, I'm sure sometimes it did. But then a gush of
- wind or a cloud took the plane off-balance and it
- started to plummet etc.

Oh now we are talking about wind.. I thought your point was what dead pilots did? Oh, just encase you havent noticed, most of the time in IL2.. their aint much wind! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

-- Are you a programer?
-
- Yes. Are you?

Yes.

- Fact is you have difficulty accepting new ideas
- since you are seemingly unable to produce any
- yourself.

Not ture. But you do have difficulty accepting that dead pilots typically dont do much after being dead.. That is to say you can focus on the exceptions to the rule.. but to expect every exception to the rule to be modled is unrealistic.. Thus I can understand why they draw the line.. if they dindt there would be no end.. in that after they did model it the exceptions you requested.. there would be some bright guy pointing out that a rock falling from space could hit the aircraft after the pilot is dead and thus cause it to start falling in yet another direction.. but do we really WANT let alone NEED that much detail?

- (I meant ideas but I hope for the sake of
- the us military genepool that you just plain DONT
- PRODUCE)

And I hope your parents got fixed after your birth! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

- No, i meant people in general, then it is customary
- to use the plural form. For example "We all know
- fire burns" I know many people in the states suffer
- from poor education and even the "president" is a
- functional illiterate. What can we expect from a
- minion of his? Do not worry though, you might just
- be annoying and stupid.

Let me guess.. your parents are french? And you like to paint?



TAGERT
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