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Dudleigh
06-30-2004, 12:38 PM
Hey Gang: I'm a littles bewildered with the vast array of weapons available for each plane set. Any tutorial or explanation concerning what each weapons does. I am familiar with most British/American but lost on Russian/German

Thanks

Denis <><

Dudleigh
06-30-2004, 12:38 PM
Hey Gang: I'm a littles bewildered with the vast array of weapons available for each plane set. Any tutorial or explanation concerning what each weapons does. I am familiar with most British/American but lost on Russian/German

Thanks

Denis &lt;&gt;&lt;

JG69_Koenig
06-30-2004, 01:00 PM
German guns :
**************

- MG15, MG17, MG81 : small caliber machineguns, equivalent to Browning .303
- MG131 : medium MG, equivalent to .50 cal
- MG/FF : 20mm cannon. Slow ROF. Slow muzzle velocity. Small ammo load. Fitted as standard on BF-109 E series and the FW190 A4 and A5. The zero's cannons are similar to the MG/FF
- MG151 : Cannon. 15mm caliber on Bf 109 F2, 20mm everywhere else. The 20mm version fires HE shells that are a bit less powerful than the Hispano MkII on the Spit. 15mm is AP only
- MK103 : automatic 30mm cannon. usually comes in pods. Shells hurts A LOT but the cannon weighs a ton.
- MK108 : compact automatic 30mm cannon. High ROF. Fires some kind of HE shells (Mine shells) that make great big holes in things. Historically 1 shell was enough for a fighter and 3 or 4 took down a bomber, currently not that strong in the game but it will shred your butt.

German bombs :
**************

The number designates the weight in kilos. there are ~2 pounds in a kilo.

- SC series : general purpose
- AB series : cluster bomb
- SD series : armour piercing
- PC series : runway-wrecking bomb, IIRC useless in game at the moment but fun to have nonetheless

German weird stuff :
********************

- W.Gr 21 : anti-bomber-formation rockets. actually pretty useless.
- BK 3.7 : Massive anti-tank cannon. Fires AP rounds.



Soviet guns :
**************

- ShKAS : light machine gun. fires the infamous "green spray". Very high ROF.
- UBS, UBK, UBT : heavy machine gun. twice as powerful as the Browning .50 cal. yes. feel the pain.
- ShVAK : 20mm cannon. similar to Hispano MkII.
- B-20 : 20mm cannon as good as ShVAK, only half the weight.
- VYa 23 : anti-armour 23mm cannon fitted on the IL2
- NS 37 : 37mm anti-tank cannon. does fine against aircraft too.
- NS 45 : the same but bigger and with slower ROF.



FURTHER INFO
************

This site is a goldmine of information :
http://hipe.uia.ac.be/~gustin/scratch/fgun/fgun-in.html

pcisbest
06-30-2004, 02:18 PM
Hi, I assume by weapons you mean the primary weapons for the aircraft, meaning guns not bombs or rockets. Here is the best I can do from memory.



GERMAN:

Machine Guns:

MG17- Fires a 7.92mm round, lots of ammo and a high fire rate, but does relatively little damage, penetration of armor is very poor. Aim for the cockpit or engine. The early 109s and early 190s carry two of these above engine. Also two in wings of early Stuka variants.

MG15- Same machine gun, only different configuration. Used for rear gunner of StukaB2, and on the different gun stations on He111. Again, relatively weak.

MG81Z- 7.92mm machine gune similar in effectiveness to MG15/17. Fitted in pairs for rear gunner on later variants of Stuka, and I believe also for rear gunner of Bf110 G2.

MG 131/13- 13mm machine gun. Roughly equivelent to an American .50 caliber. Much better velocity and mass than 7.92mm, equates to longer range, better accuracy, and better armor penetration. However, still wont do much to any type of real vehicle armor, and will still bounce off of heavily armored IL-2s. It is still a good tactic to approach as close as possible and aim for an aircraft's vital area. From mid-war onward, 109s and 190s have two of these in engine cowling.

MG 151/15- This is kinda of confusing. Some people classify this a a cannon, but I consider it a large machine gun, as the rounds have no explosive capability. It fires 15mm rounds, relatively good accuracy and penetrative power. However, due to the larger round, rate of fire is slower and ammo reserve less. Furthermore, you will only have one of them (such as on the Bf109 F-2), so it still takes the discipline to get close to the target and good marksmanship to score hits in vital areas. Also, dont expect it to penetrate IL-2 or tank armor. Generally, I find it poor, as it is somewhere in the middle of two types of weapons: it has less ammo and slower rate of fire than a MG, yet noticelby less destructive power than a cannon.

Cannons:

MG FF- A 20mm cannon seen in early 109 and 190 variants. Much better penetrative capability then other weapons. Some aircraft use the MG FFM, M meaning its the "improved" variant. Not to sure how it is improved with regards to the game, but I think the M fires explosive HE rounds. A good weapon, able to reach enemies at longer range then your machine guns and do more damage.

MG 151/20- The more modern German cannon, used through rest of the war, firing AP shots and explosive HE shells. In the game, the F4 variant of the 109 carries one (and is optional to the 30mm cannon in the later 109 variants), and early 190s carry two of them along with two MG FFs. Later 190s, like the A-8 carry 4. Stuka D3(or D5?) carries two of these instead of two MG17s. Good rate of fire, and destructive capability. This cannon is also capable of penetrating tank armor if you get down close enough to the target (about 100 meters), and aim for the weak rear/upper armor. Also, this weapon will be much more effective against bombers then your machine guns. The Bf110 G2 in the game carries a couple of these in the nose along with four machine guns for a high density of fire. Many aircraft, like the 109 G-6 variant onwards, can supplement their standard armament by carrying external gun packs under the wings with this weapon.

Mk. 103- An absolutely devasting 30mm cannon. Few aircraft use this weapon, notably the FW 190 A9 (as gunpacks) and variants of the Me 262. Not only does the round this cannon fires have a relativley large amount of explosives, but is very long ranged and shoots at a high velocity. This allows you to effectively take out bombers from just beyond the defensive gunners' field of fire. On enemy fighters, only 1-2 hits will often be enough to sever wings and destroy engines entirely. Even the IL-2 has trouble bearing it. It can also be used on tanks if need be. The only problems are that the ammo reserve is very small, and rate of fire is reduced, while recoil is heavy. You need to make your shots count, and not spray and pray, but if you can land your shots accurately, you will completley destroy any air target.

Mk. 108- A variant of the powerful MK. 103. The difference is that the 108 fires a "short" round that has a shorter casing and less propellent, albeit the same HE shell, thus firing at reduced velocity. The bad ponts to this are that your effective range is reduced, and the velocity is lower, so the power of each round is also slightly lower then the 103. The good points (and the reason it was adopted more than the 103), are that due to the smaller round, more ammunition can be carried overall, and becaues a shorter round equals a shorter action in the gun mechanism, the rate of fire is increased, although marksmanship is still very importnat with this cannon. The less propellent also meant in real life that less barrel was needed to give the round its proper ballistics, and this combined with some other factors ensured that the 108 package was smaller then the 103. So, you will find more aircraft are capable of using it, for example the 109 G-6 and onward can have one firing through the propeller hub rub instead of a MG151/20, and can also, along with the FW 190A8, carry these weap0ns as external gun packs.

3.7cm Cannon- Based around the ammunition fired in light anti-tank guns, such as the Pak36/37, this huge cannon fires a 37mm round intended to destroy the heaviest Russian tanks. The only flyable aircraft (if I remember right) in the game to carry this is the G-1 variant of the Stuka. This is intended for ground work, but I imagine in a pinch would be very devastating to enemy aircraft as well. When using it to attack tanks, the recoil is very high, so you must ony fire one burst and make it accurate. Also, because the two cannons on the G-1 are spread far apart on either side of the cockpit, you need to make sure your target is more or less exactly in your covergence range, or else the rounds may land to either side of the target.


RUSSIAN:

Machine Guns:

Degatrayev (not 100% sure on spelling http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif) series- The standard Russian machine gun used in the infantry role, known as DP, was also used in tanks (DT), and aircraft (DA). This weapon is more or less like the German MG-15. A small 7.62mm round fired at relatively low velocity. It is possible to spray targets thouroughly and see no results, unless aiming for the cockpit or engine. You will see these used by the rear gunner on the 1941 field modified IL-2, and also in gun stations on larger bombers.

ShKAS- Another 7.62mm machine gun designed purposefully for aircraft use. Most all early war Russian fighters will carry two or four of these in cowling. They have poor range and armor penetration, however, they have a very high rate of fire and large ammo reserve. For this reason, they can be fired in extended bursts, which with the vibrant green tracers the Russians use, allowes you to use them as "hoses" to help correct your aim for the larger weapons you may be carrying. For example, even the last IL-2 variants were equipped with two of them to help facilitate aiming the larger cannons. Generally though, on aircraft in which this is the only armament, such as on the I-153, you need to be very accurate and fire at very close range to see any kind of results.

UBT/UBS/BS series- These are heavy machine guns that fire Russian 12.7mm rounds, which are basically equivalent to the German 13mm or the American .50 caliber. High velocity, with much better range and pentrative capability then the ShKAS or DA machine guns. Most Russian fighters from the mid-war period onward would carry one or two Beresin (BS) machine guns in the cowling, an exapmle being the various Yak fighter variants. The UBT was essentially the same weapon, only it was more akin to the 12.7mm machine gun used by ground troops and is used by the rear gunner in the IL2 from the IL-2M onward. This weapon, like the .50 caliber or 13mm, provides a good balance between ammo reserve, rate of fire, and destructive capability. It is usually used as a supplement on the Russian fighters to the more effective cannons, but none the less is able to cause serious damage to any enemy aircraft is fired accurately, it can also penetrate light armor. Many times after strafing, I have switched to the rear gunner in an IL-2 and managed to fire back and destroy motorcylecs, parked aircraft, trucks and even "open topped" armor like the half track with extended bursts of this weapon. Also, two UBS can be found on the Russian field modification of the Hurricane Mk. II.

Cannons:

ShVAK (includes B-20)- Fires a 20mm round, with armor pentrating and HE rounds. Very effective against enemy aircraft, and also against tanks if you fire at close range and aim for the weak rear/upper armor of the tank. This weapon is also the first one that can do real damage to enemy bombers. Most Russian fighters will be equipped with one of these to supplement their BS or ShKAS armament, while the 1941 series IL-2s and the La-5/La-7 carry two of them. The B-20 is a faster firing variant of this cannon, which is very deadly. The B-20 variant is more rare, and the only aircraft I can recollect that uses it is the later La7, which has 3 placed around the engine cowling. A good all around weapon, on par with the German MG 151/20.

VYa- A 23mm cannon, with improved performance over the ShVAK. While in terms of caliber the VYa is only marginally larger then the ShVAK, shell weight and velocity are vastly larger, making for a much harder hitting cannon. Armor penetration is excellent for a weapon of this caliber, and can easily pierce at least the top armor of all except the heaviest German tanks if fired accurately and at close range. In real life, some Yaks were made to carry these in the field instead of a ShVAK, but as far as I know in the game, only the post-1941 series IL-2s (apart from the IL-2 3M) carry them, with one in each wing.

NS 3.7cm cannon- The Nudleman and Suranov (NS) 37mm cannon is extremely powerful against both enemy aircraft and armor. The dowsides to this weapon relative to the ShVAK or VYa is a reduced ammo reserve, and very large recoil. However, if fired accurately and with discretion, only a couple of hits are needed to completely destroy a target. There are only two aircraft I can think of that use this. One of them is the IL2 3M, with one in each wing, and also the Yak 9 "Tankoviy", or anti-tank version, with a single cannon firing through the propeller hub.

NS 4.5cm cannon- This is the ultimate. A 45mm cannon that will, in a single, well placed shot, blow off aircraft wings, sever fuselages, or knock out even a heavy German tank. The only aircraft to use it is the Yak 9K, I believe K standing for a Russian word denoting the "big caliber" version of the aircraft, with a single one firing through the propeller hub. As you can imagine, ammo reserve is very low (I am not sure exactly, but I think only 20 rounds or so), while recoil is enormous. When you fire it, the aircraft will shudder and the nose with actually rise a foot or two. You have to make sure your shot will hit, as after the first, and definitely the second round, you will be far off target due to the recoil.

jeroen_R90S
06-30-2004, 02:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by pcisbest:
...

VYa- A 23mm cannon, with improved performance over the ShVAK. ... [snippetysnap]

In real life, some Yaks were made to carry these in the field instead of a ShVAK, but as far as I know in the game, only the post-1941 series IL-2s (apart from the IL-2 3M) carry them, with one in each wing.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The new LaGGs series 29 and 35 that came with the patch, als have them as an option, replacing the ShVAK nose cannon. Big fun! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Jeroen

DeBaer.534
06-30-2004, 02:35 PM
good overall description there pcisbest, i just disagree in some cases

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by pcisbest:

MG81Z- 7.92mm machine gune similar in effectiveness to MG15/17. Fitted in pairs for rear gunner on later variants of Stuka, and I believe also for rear gunner of Bf110 G2.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

i personally think the MG81Z is way more effective then the MG15 and MG17 (due to higher firing rate). Also the MG81Z isn't fitted in pairs, but Z means its a pair of MG81. When you're a rear gunner, aim for the enemy planes engine or cockpit, its very powerful that way (i downend many suprised enemies online with those mgs)

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by pcisbest:

Mk. 103- An absolutely devasting 30mm cannon. Few aircraft use this weapon, notably the FW 190 A9 (as gunpacks) and variants of the Me 262.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Me 262 doesnt have it AFAIK, but the Bf109Z has it, and additionally the FW 190 A8.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by pcisbest:

Mk. 108- A variant of the powerful MK. 103. The difference is that the 108 fires a "short" round that has a shorter casing and less propellent, albeit the same HE shell, thus firing at reduced velocity. The bad ponts to this are that your effective range is reduced, and the velocity is lower, so the power of each round is also slightly lower then the 103. The good points (and the reason it was adopted more than the 103),...

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

from what ive read, the MK108 is very different to the MK103. it was adopted mainly because its easier and cheaper to produce. the MK103 was a quality weapon, the 108 a mass production.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by pcisbest:

3.7cm Cannon- Based around the ammunition fired in light anti-tank guns, such as the Pak36/37, this huge cannon fires a 37mm round intended to destroy the heaviest Russian tanks. The only flyable aircraft (if I remember right) in the game to carry this is the G-1 variant of the Stuka. This is intended for ground work, but I imagine in a pinch would be very devastating to enemy aircraft as well. When using it to attack tanks, the recoil is very high, so you must ony fire one burst and make it accurate. Also, because the two cannons on the G-1 are spread far apart on either side of the cockpit, you need to make sure your target is more or less exactly in your covergence range, or else the rounds may land to either side of the target.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Bf110 G2 has it also, as a package under the belly. the difference is, the Stuka fires AP rounds against tanks (dont use it against aircrafts, if your arent aiming exactly for the engine) and the Bf110 fires HE rounds, very effective against enemy bombers.

sorry, not meant as an offence, i just felt like i had to correct these things. your posting is a great reference. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

pcisbest
06-30-2004, 02:46 PM
Thanks for your corrections, I did know that the Z for MG81 means pairs, like "Zwilling", the "two wings" I would imagine right? I should have clarified http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Also, I was sure that at least one variant of the 262 was produced with the 103 cannon, maybe its not in the game, or maybe Im thinking wishfully? Also, good point about the production differences between 103 and 108, but with regards to gameplay, the main difference is in ammunition fired, not production standards.

Finally, thanks for the 110 info, I didnt know it had that fitted, I guess I dont fly the G2 as much as I should http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

Willey
06-30-2004, 05:09 PM
There was indeed one 262 with these guns in the nose:

2x MG 151/20
2x MK 108
2x MK 103

quite much packed in there http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif. It's the Me-262A-1a/U1.

http://www.afwing.com/images/me262/me262a1au1-1.jpg

http://fun.supereva.it/****.freeweb/me262A-1aU1xx.jpg
http://fun.supereva.it/****.freeweb/me262A-1aU1-x.jpg

Damn the language filter kills my links because a-r-s-e is in it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif:

Take this one: http://fun.supereva.it/****.freeweb/Messerschmitt%20Me%20262.html?p
Big load of pics there http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

There was also one with 6 108s, the A-1a/U5 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

JG53Frankyboy
06-30-2004, 05:32 PM
http://free-st.htnet.hr/dvd/

perhaps you will found there some interesting

Dudleigh
06-30-2004, 06:15 PM
Wow gang: ya all wrote a book for me . I will paw through all this info and make some decisions:

Thanks a bunch

Denis &lt;&gt;&lt;