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View Full Version : Combat flaps and other dogfighting advice needed



Luftkilla
05-10-2004, 02:31 AM
First off I notice that my combat flaps scrub off alot of speed. They do however seem to give me a tighter turning radius when i bank and pull back on the stick to turn. Just wanted some advice as to wheather or not i should use my combat flaps while dogfighting. I usually fly German planes which i know dont turn as tight and should use boom and zoom techniques. I'm trying to perfect this but its very difficult to accuratley put enough rounds into an enemy fighter or bomber while having such a short window of firing oppurtunity. It would seem to me that using combat flaps would not be good for this technique because of all the speed they scrub off. So ultimatley it boils down to wheather i should give up on the boom and zoom and try and engage at lower speeds giving me tighter turning radius but also making me more engageable. Or stick with the Boom and Zoom and not really use my combat flaps. (unless combat flaps are decent for this technique and i dont know about it) Any advice from any of you expert pilots out there would be greatly appreciated

Luftkilla
05-10-2004, 02:31 AM
First off I notice that my combat flaps scrub off alot of speed. They do however seem to give me a tighter turning radius when i bank and pull back on the stick to turn. Just wanted some advice as to wheather or not i should use my combat flaps while dogfighting. I usually fly German planes which i know dont turn as tight and should use boom and zoom techniques. I'm trying to perfect this but its very difficult to accuratley put enough rounds into an enemy fighter or bomber while having such a short window of firing oppurtunity. It would seem to me that using combat flaps would not be good for this technique because of all the speed they scrub off. So ultimatley it boils down to wheather i should give up on the boom and zoom and try and engage at lower speeds giving me tighter turning radius but also making me more engageable. Or stick with the Boom and Zoom and not really use my combat flaps. (unless combat flaps are decent for this technique and i dont know about it) Any advice from any of you expert pilots out there would be greatly appreciated

SirJinks
05-10-2004, 05:28 AM
While I'm certainly no expert but I'm happy to impart what little knowledge I have.

Employing flaps in combat is a rather contentious issue and varies dpending upon situation and indeed person flying. You should only employ flaps in a turn when you are at your corner velocity (CV) which is basically the slowest speed that your machine can pull max G (this will vary depending upon plane type and altitude). Try to avoid using flaps either much above or below your CV as they will normally have effects detrimental to what you want to achieve (eg, too much speed reduction for not much of an increase in turn rate). Now the tricky bit is knowing when to employ flaps in a turn or not. If you are in a 1-on-1 turn fight on your opponents tail and hes turning tighter than you, you might decide to either keep your flaps up, retain your energy and disengage to take a better position and another pass or you could decide to risk bleeding your speed through engaging flaps and trying to turn inside your opponent to take a shot. If you are in a multiple bogey furball then bleeding speed usually makes you an easy target and hence most people will do everything they can to keep an energy advantage and use flaps as little as possible.
Always work with your planes advantage. The luftwaffe planes (as a very general rule of thumb)normally perform better in dives and climbs than their counterparts and hence flyers stick to "boom and zoom" fighting. By all means try "turn and burn" but you may be at a distinct disadvantage. In the end it is probably a question of practice, practice and more practice.

Bearcat99
05-10-2004, 05:49 AM
One of the keys to using flaps in combat I have found is to use them only at the beginning of the turn and then only for a few seconds..then raise them back up. If deployed to the full position they may jam.

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F19_Ob
05-10-2004, 09:48 AM
Combatflaps on and off work is frequent during my combats. I leave flaps on "combat" for smaller circle or if I need to bleed speed faster in a turn. As soon I need extra speed I turn flapps off.
During climbs after enemies I can start the climb without flaps and add some when speed decreases, and when speed is almost gone I use the rudder to swing my nose to aim or draw deflection ( yes, sideways ). So by adding flaps later in the manouver I can gain a bit more hight.

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4000 m is a good altitude for many fighters. The aces often have atleast 3000 and/or higher to begin with and then descend while searching and spotting.


A good trick if u spot an unsuspecting enemy below, is to dive down quite far below his tail where he cant see u and use the extra speed gained to zoom up , but remember to level out so u dont overshoot. If U have a wingman he will stay 4-500m behind and below your tail to avoid detection and be prepared for a secondary atack if u for som reason fail to finish the enemy off.

In a 109 I normally climb up and level out about when Im 100-200m from his tail sometimes less. With the 109 I prefer to end up at same speed as the foe on the end of my climb to his tail to ensure as many hits with that single cannon as possible.

With the fw190 wich have many cannons I prefer high speed and start firing from longer distance.

In my opinion 200 m convergence is to little for the fw190. 300 or more is better. But then everyone will have their style and needs.

On the later 109s convergence doesnt matter much since the guns are concentrated in the nose. but I have it set to 300 anyway.


If the enemy spots me in the bouncerun I climb away in the fw190 and go for longdistance deflectionshots in the 109.
In the 109 I often convert my speed in to turning power , preferably a descending turn wich makes it as sharp as possible = I keep the speed at best turn speed = I can keep on pulling hard. Usually it lasts for one single hard turn and nowadays thats enough to draw deflection and hit.

So for me it is mixed tactics with the 109 and BnZ with the fw190.

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Now and then I post onlinetracks from GG With explanations and tactics. I noticed I had still one available on the web.... feel free to take a peek.
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=380104843

[This message was edited by ob_swe on Mon May 10 2004 at 08:57 AM.]

[This message was edited by ob_swe on Mon May 10 2004 at 08:59 AM.]

LilHorse
05-10-2004, 10:55 AM
For the 109s I would advise against using them in all but the most urgent situations. BnZ is the way to go unless you're up against P-51s, P-47s or P-38s. And even then I wouldn't advise sticking around and mixing it up.

BnZ takes patience and discipline. And you have to understand that the point of it is not only to try to shoot down enemy a/c, but to survive the engagement as well. Get in, shoot, get out.

In typical DF servers most flyers are all about zipping around in ridiculous furballs trying to shoot each other down to rack up points. Hardly reflective of actual aerial combat (especially when you're doing it by yourself). Most kills in WWII were as a result of the bounce. Dropping down and blasting the enemy a/c before he even knows what's happening. Not an easy thing to do in a server with icons enabled. Go to more FR type servers and you can use BnZ techniques. Are you gonna pile up a big score doing it? Probably not. But then you're using a technique that has more a realistic application than for a DF server. In reality even those pilots in planes that TnB'd well would not have been happy to be turnfighting for their lives. They'd get out of the fight as soon as they could too.

LilHorse
05-10-2004, 10:57 AM
For the 109s I would advise against using them in all but the most urgent situations. BnZ is the way to go unless you're up against P-51s, P-47s or P-38s. And even then I wouldn't advise sticking around and mixing it up.

BnZ takes patience and discipline. And you have to understand that the point of it is not only to try to shoot down enemy a/c, but to survive the engagement as well. Get in, shoot, get out.

In typical DF servers most flyers are all about zipping around in ridiculous furballs trying to shoot each other down to rack up points. Hardly reflective of actual aerial combat (especially when you're doing it by yourself). Most kills in WWII were as a result of the bounce. Dropping down and blasting the enemy a/c before he even knows what's happening. Not an easy thing to do in a server with icons enabled. Go to more FR type servers and you can use BnZ techniques. Are you gonna pile up a big score doing it? Probably not. But then you're using a technique that has a more realistic application than for a DF server. In reality even those pilots in planes that TnB'd well would not have been happy to be turnfighting for their lives. They'd get out of the fight as soon as they could too.