PDA

View Full Version : some new images...



Martin Sabran
07-10-2004, 09:28 AM
Hi there!
Here are some links to new images released and a new review of a recent press coverage done in France for the European market.

Article (in french only) here :
http://www.gamekult.com/tout/actus/articles/A0000035079.html

new images links:
http://www.gamekult.com/tout/actus/articles/A0000035079_2.html

http://www.gamekult.com/tout/actus/articles/A0000035079_3.html

http://www.gamekult.com/tout/actus/articles/A0000035079_4.html

http://www.gamekult.com/tout/actus/articles/A0000035079_5.html

http://www.gamekult.com/tout/actus/articles/A0000035079_6.html

http://www.gamekult.com/tout/actus/articles/A0000035079_7.html

--
cheers

Martin Sabran
CG Lead Artist | Myst IV Revelation | UBISOFT Montreal

Martin Sabran
07-10-2004, 09:28 AM
Hi there!
Here are some links to new images released and a new review of a recent press coverage done in France for the European market.

Article (in french only) here :
http://www.gamekult.com/tout/actus/articles/A0000035079.html

new images links:
http://www.gamekult.com/tout/actus/articles/A0000035079_2.html

http://www.gamekult.com/tout/actus/articles/A0000035079_3.html

http://www.gamekult.com/tout/actus/articles/A0000035079_4.html

http://www.gamekult.com/tout/actus/articles/A0000035079_5.html

http://www.gamekult.com/tout/actus/articles/A0000035079_6.html

http://www.gamekult.com/tout/actus/articles/A0000035079_7.html

--
cheers

Martin Sabran
CG Lead Artist | Myst IV Revelation | UBISOFT Montreal

monsieurdavid
07-10-2004, 03:41 PM
Well how perfectly vile: this site presents Revelation not as a simultaneous Macintosh and PC release, but as strictly a PC release -- complete with a Windows logo! What is the problem! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Patchallel
07-10-2004, 05:05 PM
Good grief, man, we're deluged by dozens of fantastic, mouth-watering images and you are upset that Macs are not mentioned in the article?
I, for one, Martin, are very gratified that you've passed this along. Thanks!

Patchallel (Tom O'Leary)
http://news.patchallel.com

Martin_Sabran
07-10-2004, 06:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by monsieurdavid:
Well how perfectly vile: this site presents Revelation not as a simultaneous Macintosh and PC release, but as strictly a PC release -- complete with a Windows logo! What is the problem! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mmm...defenatly an error on their part... but you dont have to be mad about it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Be sure that the marketing are doing all they can to publicise that it is also on the Mac and personnally im proud of that.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

--
Martin Sabran
CG Lead Artist | Myst IV Revelation Team

[This message was edited by Martin_Sabran on Sat July 10 2004 at 05:34 PM.]

matt myat
07-10-2004, 06:32 PM
wow! new images!!! new images!!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

matt myat
07-10-2004, 07:15 PM
sorry to post again but:

it looks AMAZING!!!!!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif
Stunning imagery!!

monsieurdavid
07-10-2004, 08:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Good grief, man, we're deluged by dozens of fantastic, mouth-watering images and you are upset that Macs are not mentioned in the article? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Excuse me? What do dozens of fantastic, mouth-watering images have to do with the misrepresentation of this game being PC-only? Do n o t get me started.

Boshettee
07-10-2004, 08:59 PM
Thanks Martin, Those are really great! Looking forward to more and the release of the demo.

The misrepresentation thread is behind door #1 or door #3? Oh, it's just next door? Thanks!

Patchallel
07-10-2004, 09:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by monsieurdavid:
Excuse me? What do dozens of fantastic, mouth-watering images have to do with the misrepresentation of this game being PC-only? Do n o t get me started.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
First, my dislike of the word "vile" to describe the issue.
Vile: 1 a : morally despicable or abhorrent &lt;nothing is so vile as intellectual dishonesty&gt; b : physically repulsive
While, yes, it is frustrating to see Mac users treated as second citizens (i, too, am a Mac user) it could never be termed "vile."
Second, double-check the remaining reviews on the site. They never mention Macs in any review, not Riven, not Myst not Exile. The people on this site are morons.
Third, Martin was kindly presenting us AVIDs with some really good press on the game and some really good shots. Your response seemed to spit in his face. Quite rude.
Not meaning to flame, but I think your comments were misplaced.

Patchallel (Tom O'Leary)
http://news.patchallel.com

Srikandi
07-10-2004, 09:46 PM
Wow wow wow wow wow.

Some thoughts:

All those closeups of Yeesha -- bet we get to interact with her!

I suspect a puzzle involving the birdfeeder!

Concept art (p 4): taxidermy?! Do we get to stuff an animal?!!!

Cat-creature? (p 5) Haven't seen any renders of that! But maybe that's what evolved into the monkey.

Human figures on Page 6 must be those famous Sisters of the Temple. I wonder if the other scenes on that page are from the same Age?

Pics on page 7 make it look like Tomahna is bigger than I realized.

COOL box art! Love the reflecton of Yeesha.

Temple door closeup (p 4) shows some interesting symbols...

Sri's Relto (http://members.cox.net/srikandi/Uru/)

Jerle
07-10-2004, 10:32 PM
Awesome images, thanks for posting them!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Wonderful work, guys! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif

http://jerle.bahro.com/avatars/signature01.jpg (http://linguists.bahro.com/)
Co-Administrator/Webmaster ~ D'ni Linguistic Fellowship
MYSTcommunity Administrator ~ Community Manager (http://myst.chucker.rasdi.net/board/index.php)
MYSTerium.ch is back! (http://www.mysterium.ch)

monsieurdavid
07-11-2004, 06:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> First, my dislike of the word "vile" to describe the issue. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Never seen anyone get upset over the word "vile", which is a silly word in this context, and was meant to be so.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Your response seemed to spit in his face. Quite rude. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
This interpretation is just a trifle extreme; I believe Mr. Sabran's reaction was slightly more appropriate.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> The people on this site are morons. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
And I'm rude?

Now before someone else says it, let's get back to the pictures. Thanks.

Pat_09
07-11-2004, 07:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>They never mention Macs in any review, not Riven, not Myst not Exile. The people on this site are morons.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't worry about the mac version, it is just an oversight on their part not to mention it in the article. Mac is on track for a simultaneous release. In fact, even the demo is currently fully playable on Mac (and it was shown at the press event!!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif)

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

monsieurdavid
07-11-2004, 09:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Don't worry about the mac version, it is just an oversight on their part not to mention it in the article. Mac is on track for a simultaneous release. In fact, even the demo is currently fully playable on Mac (and it was shown at the press event!!! ) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thanks for the clarification and vote of confidence. However, once is an oversight, consistently omitting references to the Mac platform is prejudice. (And whereas I will use the word "v*le" to describe prejudice, I will continue to avoid the use of the word "m*ron" ;-)

Pat_09
07-11-2004, 09:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Thanks for the clarification and vote of confidence. However, once is an oversight, consistently omitting references to the Mac platform is prejudice. (And whereas I will use the word "v*le" to describe prejudice, I will continue to avoid the use of the word "m*ron" ;-) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Suit yourself,I'm off to play the mac version right now, ciao! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

monsieurdavid
07-11-2004, 11:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> http://www.gamekult.com/tout/actus/articles/A0000035079_7.html
"Pics on page 7 make it look like Tomahna is bigger than I realized." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Do you think the fully rendered shot with the structure imbedded in the pink rock cliffside is intended to be the outside of the chamber we first land in on Tomahna in Exile, and hear Catherine say, "Breathtaking, isn't it!" (or something like that)? None of the other shots I've seen make Tomahna look as arid as it seemed in Exile, but of course we only saw that one view.

Jerle
07-11-2004, 01:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pat_09:
I'm off to play the mac version right now, ciao! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Evil. Pure.... evilnessitude, you brat. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/cry.gif

http://jerle.bahro.com/avatars/signature01.jpg (http://linguists.bahro.com/)
Co-Administrator/Webmaster ~ D'ni Linguistic Fellowship
MYSTcommunity Administrator ~ Community Manager (http://myst.chucker.rasdi.net/board/index.php)
MYSTerium.ch is back! (http://www.mysterium.ch)

Martin_Sabran
07-11-2004, 04:36 PM
if that's evil... i wonder what you are going to say to that:

" its sunday, yes i am going back to work even if its so nice outside... to do what? Well working on Myst IV to finish the zone im working on right now that it so difficult to send to rendering...and while im waiting my rendering i might just try this new thing we received by mail. what is it? it our MYST IV PC demo off course."

hehe... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif

Cheers

--
Martin Sabran
CG Lead Artist | Myst IV Revelation Team

Jerle
07-11-2004, 06:21 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

*Goes to start a poll entitled "Who is more evil, Pat or Martin?"* http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/icon_twisted.gif

*Goes to play SPIDER SOLITAIRE* http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/cry.gif

Yer both brats, all of y'all. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://jerle.bahro.com/avatars/signature01.jpg (http://linguists.bahro.com/)
Co-Administrator/Webmaster ~ D'ni Linguistic Fellowship
MYSTcommunity Administrator ~ Community Manager (http://myst.chucker.rasdi.net/board/index.php)
MYSTerium.ch is back! (http://www.mysterium.ch)

matt myat
07-11-2004, 06:49 PM
argh... if only i was working on a game, i'd have better things to do than surf the rev forums when i'm rendering! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif

stunning graphics you and your team have produced Martin!! a real source of inspiration!

(i noticed some racines de champignon on your site aren't active yet, have you got some work on the web somewhere?)

[btw Jerle - will the poll have a "both" option http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif]

Martin_Sabran
07-11-2004, 07:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by matt myat:
...(i noticed some racines de champignon on your site aren't active yet, have you got some work on the web somewhere?)...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hehe...you were investigating... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif
For now my site is very much in construction, in fact because of Myst IV... I still can't show anything that i've worked on because it have to stay secret until the game is released in stores.
I would like to show what we work on for the past 3 intensive years but for now the images that the marketing are releasing will have to do.

Until then i'll go back rendering once more... (it never ends these days...) Oh! Am i complaining here... No, i'm just in the process of becomming more crazy....ahgagableble...and so on... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif Martin

matt myat
07-11-2004, 07:54 PM
haha, yeah, just passing another round of twiddling fingers myself (i've rendered this segment nine times now - there's always something wrong isn't there?! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif)

meanwhile looking forward to seeing all this fantastic imagery in Myst IV! so keep up the sitting-there-waiting-for-the-computer-to-do-all-the-work http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Coronagold
07-11-2004, 09:48 PM
Jerle, you can go into Options & set Spider Solitaire to 4 suits: Difficult. It'll be just like Riven. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

http://www.dnijazzclub.com/mwsc/bnr006.gif (http://store.ubi.com/item.jsp?item=008888682028&category=PC)

Eat_My_Shortz
07-11-2004, 11:54 PM
OMG You guys have created a masterpiece.

Although I don't like that word after what "Myst Masterpiece" did to it.
When I say Revelation is a masterpiece I refer to the original definition of the word http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Anyway, lovely artwork. I can't wait to play the demo. When's it coming out?

Also, I think we've got to see Yeesha up a lot closer this time. She looks great (if you recall there was a lot of speculation about her when that first shot came out, but she looked worried and heaps of people said they didn't like her.)

Well anyway that little girl's got a tough performance to beat, after the stunning portrayal by Audrey Uhler in Myst III, and lets not forget crazy 3D Yeesha in Uru! (Who I must point out was voiced very well by Rengin Altay.)

Also, there are now a lot of Tomahna Day shots! This is a surprise. I thought the original ONE Tomahna day was a test, and it was only night.
This means either there are 2 sections with Tomahna, one day one night (like sunny cleft, rainy cleft), or there IS a day/night cycle! (WOW)

Summary: Nice. Very very nice.

_______________________________________________
The Gathered Will Tell the Path of the Shell. Well TELL ME ALREADY!

earthangell
07-12-2004, 01:14 AM
WHEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!! NEW PICS!!!!!!!!!!! thankyouthankyouthankyou!!!!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/heart.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/heart.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/heart.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif

----------------------------
Lei'arra in URU

To dance is to breathe...to breathe is to live....to live is to dance....

Srikandi
07-12-2004, 01:22 AM
Very interesting thread (http://www.uruobsession.com/forum/index.php?act=ST&f=68&t=12202&s=07c912a7ac8752bf2f8b7e369cfd7521) on UO about the bird picture;

http://img.gamekult.com/photos/00/00/47/55/ME0000475577_2.jpg

To sum up, this picture illustrates "depth of field", where objects away from the center of attention become blurred. According to Pat, in M4 this (optional) feature will work in EVERY SINGLE NODE in M4... the object under the cursor will be in sharper focus than the background.

I've never seen that done in a game... amazing.

Sri's Relto (http://members.cox.net/srikandi/Uru/)

earthangell
07-12-2004, 01:32 AM
now that is really cool!!! makes it a bit more movie like, which i like!

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/353.gif does anyone know where i can get that WARCRAFT WORLDS pic of the nightelf featured on that french site? i absolutely love it!

----------------------------
Lei'arra in URU

To dance is to breathe...to breathe is to live....to live is to dance....

matt myat
07-12-2004, 03:40 AM
wow! depth of field in any node???! now that's clever!!! if it's got that, i'm betting we're gunna see a lot more depth effects than just blurring! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

a day/night cycle would take this sort of thing to whole new level, but i wouldn't be surprised!!

Eat_My_Shortz
07-12-2004, 05:31 PM
Yes it IS very cool but to me it seems like a bit of a distraction! I may be totally wrong, it really depends how it feels in the game. But its a lovely feature anyway.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I've never seen that done in a game... amazing.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Actually (I'm not sure) my brother got Prince of Persia: Sands of Time made by... guess who (Ubisoft Montreal) and I *think* it had blurring. It definitely had motion blur. Not sure about focal blur.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/353.gif does anyone know where i can get that WARCRAFT WORLDS pic of the nightelf featured on that french site? i absolutely love it!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Nope. I checked all the Blizzard sites. They don't got it. And its "World of Warcraft" not "Warcraft Worlds."

_______________________________________________
The Gathered Will Tell the Path of the Shell. Well TELL ME ALREADY!

Eat_My_Shortz
07-12-2004, 05:33 PM
I also love the new Tomahna day images. Now its looking a lot like the Cleft we love from Exile/Uru.

_______________________________________________
The Gathered Will Tell the Path of the Shell. Well TELL ME ALREADY!

jetuserX
07-12-2004, 06:39 PM
will the subtitles work (assuming that someone will be talking in the demo) for the demo game?

CAGrayWolf
07-12-2004, 06:48 PM
Well ... at least you all can see what I was referring to in my review. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://jerle.bahro.com/avatars/wolfyMc.jpg (http://www.greetersguild.com/home.html)

earthangell
07-13-2004, 02:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Eat_My_Shortz: Nope. I checked all the Blizzard sites. They don't got it. And its "World of Warcraft" not "Warcraft Worlds."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

thanks, EMS.... i tried World of Warcraft, too, just misplaced the wording when i typed here....


i'm totally excited about all the features and pics and everything we've seen so far!!! don't know if i'll play the demo, but i'm counting down the days until Sept.!!!!!!!!!

----------------------------
Lei'arra in URU

To dance is to breathe...to breathe is to live....to live is to dance....

[This message was edited by CAGrayWolf on Tue July 13 2004 at 04:03 PM.]

Eat_My_Shortz
07-13-2004, 10:02 AM
Whats the date? I have Sept 23 in my head but that might be Star Wars. Anyone know the date (or if there is one?)

Btw http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/353.gif if you haven't heard about Star Wars the original trilogy is coming out on DVD in September. Unfortunately it will be overshadowed by a game... a very very cool game... probably the greatest....

_______________________________________________
The Gathered Will Tell the Path of the Shell. Well TELL ME ALREADY!

Devokan80
07-13-2004, 10:50 AM
ya my two favorite things are coming out in September. Myst and Star Wars, in that order. And that's saying a lot cause I grew up on Star Wars...*needs to start saving up so the wife won't yell at him when he can't pay September bills*

earthangell
07-13-2004, 03:52 PM
i thought Star Wars was already out on DVD (the IV, V, and VI trilogy)..... my husband got them for his birthday or Christmas a couple of years ago from his parents.......goes over to media center and checks..... yup, we got them! oh, wait a sec, these are the remastered editions of IV, V, and VI trilogy.

----------------------------
Lei'arra in URU

To dance is to breathe...to breathe is to live....to live is to dance....

[This message was edited by earthangell on Wed July 14 2004 at 12:09 AM.]

Martin_Sabran
07-15-2004, 07:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Eat_My_Shortz:
Yes it IS very cool but to me it seems like a bit of a distraction! I may be totally wrong, it really depends how it feels in the game. But its a lovely feature anyway. ...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The depth of field effect will be an option that you will be able to desactivate for your own taste.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif but sometimes, you might to put it on, because it really helps to brake the flat 2d effect that you have of your computer monitor.
This effect heve been much in tweaking to make it more suitable to the public. At first it was too perceptible to the eye and was responding too slowly...but now the effect have been ajusted to a more subtle range.
Personnally at first I wasn't sure about it, but with time... Now i really love it...it give you some more depth into your experience.

You'll see and decide if you want to keep it ON.

--
Martin Sabran
CG Lead Artist | Myst IV Revelation Team

Ze Pedro
07-16-2004, 01:07 AM
OMG!!! This is the game I've been waiting to play since Riven!!! It looks FANTASTIC!!!

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/heart.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/heart.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/heart.gif

matt myat
07-16-2004, 04:34 AM
yeah i gotta echo that!! but i think i'm gunna die of shock and excitement before it comes on the shelves!!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif
argh! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif i wanna seeeeee it! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

earthangell
07-16-2004, 09:42 PM
argh! i wanna plaaaaaaaaaaaaaay it! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/cry.gif

----------------------------
Lei'arra in URU

To dance is to breathe...to breathe is to live....to live is to dance....

Ze Pedro
07-17-2004, 11:32 AM
To Pat & his gang:

Please, make the gameplay last forever. Include LOTS of time-dependent puzzles. Like, POTS multiplied by 10. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Make us wait for plants to grow... 5.. 10... 15 days before we can use them in that microscope. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif Make Sirus take a long nap in a hidden cave before we can find him. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif Make the seasons change as in real life and force us to start our quest only at the end of 3 season cycles... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif

Make the game last forever. I don't want it to be over soon! Thank you.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

matt myat
07-17-2004, 06:32 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

yeah! include optional "infinite gameplay mode"!!
or make sure we can play it differently a million times http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

CAGrayWolf
07-17-2004, 07:16 PM
I have no idea if Ze Pedro is joking or not (though I assume he is) but just in case ...

What ever you do ... PLEASE don't make it like TPotS ... that waiting was almost worse than the puzzles in Schizm ... and I can guarantee you that a good many will cancel there pre-orders if there are any puzzles like what we had to deal with in Ahnonoying.

http://jerle.bahro.com/avatars/wolfyMc.jpg (http://www.greetersguild.com/home.html)