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View Full Version : The Campaign Model of SH3 / Multiplayer wolfpack engagement



Willey
05-21-2004, 07:03 AM
As SH3 is still in development, 4 months to the planned release, maybe we can affect it a bit. We want the best one we can get. An Aces Campaign is beyond the horizon for now, maybe it can be done as a mod if SH3 is open enough. But the campaign, as advertised seems to be quite restricting your decisions as a commander. First, I list what I know about how it's going to be:

- The campaign consists of several scripted missions, filled with...
- random events like single ship encounters, airplane encounters and convoy encounters
- There will be wolfpack attacks as well as replenishing fuel, food and weapons
- The campaign is structured like a tree, and you'll select one of 3 missions each time, having up to 24 missions per campaign
- You'll have to be successful to go on in the campaign (min. tonnage for completing mission? 3 times nothing sunk and you're beeing retired? Don'T know exactly)
- You'll drive to your patrol zone via a predefined route in a high rate of time compression, aborted by random contacts which will start the actual sim
- you'll be able to save anytime unless you've been detected by enemy units (= in fight)

OK, now that's not what most players want to have, me included http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif. What can they do about making it better? They obviously can't make an open, dynamic, random campaign like Aces had, but maybe we can convince them to make thier campaign model more open. I think, it has enough randomness already, the biggest bummer about it is that you just sit there and wait until something comes up. So the primary issue is to make it just more open, to give the player a wide area of decisions which are realized as you're sailing your route. The travel map though is a good idea for a higher time compression. Remember Aces had 4096x max, and SH2 2048x max, so perhaps SH3 could manage even less due to all those calculations that run in the background. So here are some suggestions:

- The most important of it, let us choose our route freely. It can be done with some waypoints, just like in Aces or SH2
- You've got 3 assigned patrol zones (= missions), which of one is taken randomly, and not by the player's choice. You don't have to go there, but you could risk your job by going elsewhere too often (if they know about it; normally you could fool them by just radioing wrong position data http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif)
- As there's quite some randomness in each mission, there should be the possibility for an intercept order by the BdU, if a contact is beeing shadowed close to your route or position
- The player should be able to deactivate the travel mode (high time compression on Travel Map) at any time
- The travel mode should be deactivated by several events like visual and audio contacts, engine damages and other problems and radio messages like the intercept order or contact reports.
- The player should be able to define a range of parameters for the travel mode:

* Drive with diesel engines only, and set speed setting
* Drive dieselelectric, using the diesel engines just for charging the batteries to conserve fuel, and set speed setting
* Drive surfaced, at snorkel depth, submerged/surfaced or submerged/snorkel (set depth, 60m for example) in dieselelectric mode and surfaced or at snorkel depth in diesel mode
* frequency in minutes for listening dive to make out convoys earlier and at higher distance (= higher probability)
* frequency in hours for readjusting the torpedo gyros (= affecting the dud probability)
* amount of crash dive training in 24 hours, point(s) of time choosen randomly; this should raise the skill of the crew, but it shouldn't make a top crew in 3 patrols if used frequently http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
* repair teams/priority
* torpedo replacement (moving torpedoes from the stern room to the bow room or from the external stores to the rooms, changing a T I for a T III etc)
* and some other things that don't come into my mind right now http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
* All those parameters should affect the crew morale in a certain way. Longer travels should drain more, as well as very frequent dive action and torpedo works

For the multiplayer part it would be interesting to extract the campaign encounters as MP missions. This would work like this:

- You just play your campaign, as you encounter a convoy you radio the information to the BdU, waiting for other U-Boats close to your location to organise a wolfpack attack
- As soon as one ore more AI U-Boats arrive the convoy and have either contact to the convoy or another U-Boat having contact to the convoy (including your's), you can either go on offline and tell the BdU that you're ready to engage, or you save the game and interrupt offline play...
- then you load up the game in MP mode, get some players and attack the convoy with them. As you host your own mission, the campaign goes on as you're attacking the convoy (planes, ships, convoy moving along their routes, radio messages etc)
- When you're done, you just save the game again and load it in SP carreer mode again to continue.

With that one you could combine a offline campaign with multiplayer action which should be interesting especially for for players that like to play both SP and MP. Also it could raise your survival chances because your mates are better than the AI http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif. If there'll be an addon featuring playble destroyers for multiplayer, players could even man these in the engagement, making your carreer campaign even more thrilling. That's some kind of playing a campaign online BTW, cutting off those long travel routes as synchronous time compression (especially high rates like 1024x) may be quite problematic online.

With these changes, the campaign should be quite open, though with scripted missions. This should be doable IMHO, and maybe the devs have some open ears for it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif. Thunak could forward this to the devs. And, SH3 would be a winner with it, without having a real dynamic campaign http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Willey
05-21-2004, 07:03 AM
As SH3 is still in development, 4 months to the planned release, maybe we can affect it a bit. We want the best one we can get. An Aces Campaign is beyond the horizon for now, maybe it can be done as a mod if SH3 is open enough. But the campaign, as advertised seems to be quite restricting your decisions as a commander. First, I list what I know about how it's going to be:

- The campaign consists of several scripted missions, filled with...
- random events like single ship encounters, airplane encounters and convoy encounters
- There will be wolfpack attacks as well as replenishing fuel, food and weapons
- The campaign is structured like a tree, and you'll select one of 3 missions each time, having up to 24 missions per campaign
- You'll have to be successful to go on in the campaign (min. tonnage for completing mission? 3 times nothing sunk and you're beeing retired? Don'T know exactly)
- You'll drive to your patrol zone via a predefined route in a high rate of time compression, aborted by random contacts which will start the actual sim
- you'll be able to save anytime unless you've been detected by enemy units (= in fight)

OK, now that's not what most players want to have, me included http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif. What can they do about making it better? They obviously can't make an open, dynamic, random campaign like Aces had, but maybe we can convince them to make thier campaign model more open. I think, it has enough randomness already, the biggest bummer about it is that you just sit there and wait until something comes up. So the primary issue is to make it just more open, to give the player a wide area of decisions which are realized as you're sailing your route. The travel map though is a good idea for a higher time compression. Remember Aces had 4096x max, and SH2 2048x max, so perhaps SH3 could manage even less due to all those calculations that run in the background. So here are some suggestions:

- The most important of it, let us choose our route freely. It can be done with some waypoints, just like in Aces or SH2
- You've got 3 assigned patrol zones (= missions), which of one is taken randomly, and not by the player's choice. You don't have to go there, but you could risk your job by going elsewhere too often (if they know about it; normally you could fool them by just radioing wrong position data http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif)
- As there's quite some randomness in each mission, there should be the possibility for an intercept order by the BdU, if a contact is beeing shadowed close to your route or position
- The player should be able to deactivate the travel mode (high time compression on Travel Map) at any time
- The travel mode should be deactivated by several events like visual and audio contacts, engine damages and other problems and radio messages like the intercept order or contact reports.
- The player should be able to define a range of parameters for the travel mode:

* Drive with diesel engines only, and set speed setting
* Drive dieselelectric, using the diesel engines just for charging the batteries to conserve fuel, and set speed setting
* Drive surfaced, at snorkel depth, submerged/surfaced or submerged/snorkel (set depth, 60m for example) in dieselelectric mode and surfaced or at snorkel depth in diesel mode
* frequency in minutes for listening dive to make out convoys earlier and at higher distance (= higher probability)
* frequency in hours for readjusting the torpedo gyros (= affecting the dud probability)
* amount of crash dive training in 24 hours, point(s) of time choosen randomly; this should raise the skill of the crew, but it shouldn't make a top crew in 3 patrols if used frequently http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
* repair teams/priority
* torpedo replacement (moving torpedoes from the stern room to the bow room or from the external stores to the rooms, changing a T I for a T III etc)
* and some other things that don't come into my mind right now http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
* All those parameters should affect the crew morale in a certain way. Longer travels should drain more, as well as very frequent dive action and torpedo works

For the multiplayer part it would be interesting to extract the campaign encounters as MP missions. This would work like this:

- You just play your campaign, as you encounter a convoy you radio the information to the BdU, waiting for other U-Boats close to your location to organise a wolfpack attack
- As soon as one ore more AI U-Boats arrive the convoy and have either contact to the convoy or another U-Boat having contact to the convoy (including your's), you can either go on offline and tell the BdU that you're ready to engage, or you save the game and interrupt offline play...
- then you load up the game in MP mode, get some players and attack the convoy with them. As you host your own mission, the campaign goes on as you're attacking the convoy (planes, ships, convoy moving along their routes, radio messages etc)
- When you're done, you just save the game again and load it in SP carreer mode again to continue.

With that one you could combine a offline campaign with multiplayer action which should be interesting especially for for players that like to play both SP and MP. Also it could raise your survival chances because your mates are better than the AI http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif. If there'll be an addon featuring playble destroyers for multiplayer, players could even man these in the engagement, making your carreer campaign even more thrilling. That's some kind of playing a campaign online BTW, cutting off those long travel routes as synchronous time compression (especially high rates like 1024x) may be quite problematic online.

With these changes, the campaign should be quite open, though with scripted missions. This should be doable IMHO, and maybe the devs have some open ears for it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif. Thunak could forward this to the devs. And, SH3 would be a winner with it, without having a real dynamic campaign http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Kejotikk
05-21-2004, 10:57 AM
Good luck getting them to listen. They've shown that they don't care the slightest about what the end users want and they'll make their little u-boat arcade game no matter what.

RedTerex
05-28-2004, 03:10 PM
This how it will go.....

"ships spotted..like er 5 of em ! "
" Ok dude fire dem torps"
" yeah man fired em off"
"ok chill till dey it de ships n nat"
Boom boom boom boom boom
"yeah man owz-zat "
" 5 of um gone dude "
" cool Capn Cool, far out ! way to go wahooo"
"now lets get back to our pad n chill wiv beers n nat"

Or rather we hope not !

RedTerex