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airplanekiller
05-10-2004, 05:10 AM
I have been trying to fly the FW190 against various bombers and fighter planes in AEP. I am having a very difficult time diving down or turning to line up shots becuase of the bad visibility out of the cockpit. Was it really this bad in real life? I amazed that German pilots could do anything other than a shallow shot from below with the FW190.

airplanekiller
05-10-2004, 05:10 AM
I have been trying to fly the FW190 against various bombers and fighter planes in AEP. I am having a very difficult time diving down or turning to line up shots becuase of the bad visibility out of the cockpit. Was it really this bad in real life? I amazed that German pilots could do anything other than a shallow shot from below with the FW190.

mr.keith
05-10-2004, 07:11 AM
I agree with you...it's a terrible plane to fly.I've almost given up on it....but it looks so good

TgD Thunderbolt56
05-10-2004, 07:17 AM
Like most things, it IS possible to get used to it and experience some level of success.

The view suXorz...yes, but it won't be changed...period. The dive capabilities, and firepower are quite good though.

Remember this. The Butcherbird is the penultimate "team" dogfighter. If you fly a "loose deuce" type of sortie, it is THE bird of choice...be sure.



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VW-IceFire
05-10-2004, 07:18 AM
In a FW190 you HAVE to be an amazing deflection shooter to score kills. The other option is to have the MK108's installed in the wings and fire blindly at shorter ranges...that also can work.

In terms of manuvering always have the altitude and energy advantage. Some quick tips:

- Set your prop pitch to manual and set it to 85%
- Set radiator/cowl flaps to 4 or 6
- Use WEP when at all possible

There are some limitations to the FW190's forward visibility in terms of looking below. If you've flown a La-5FN or a P-47 it isn't too much different...however, you have awesome side and rear vision so I suppose it makes up for it. Adapt your tactics...use the lag pursuit and make sure you drop behind...

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LuftLuver
05-10-2004, 07:19 AM
This comparison report (http://www.geocities.com/slakergmb/id88.htm)should put more light into the 190s limited DIRECT FORWARD view. The 190 tested even had the gunsight removed.

Perhaps Oleg is right by saying, "You is wrong." http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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Venom079
05-10-2004, 08:42 AM
some good pointers here (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=962101993) from an earlier post...

Huckebein_UK
05-10-2004, 09:18 AM
Just a case of getting used to it methinks - don't fool yourself into thinking the poor visibilty makes the Focke-Wulf an inferior fighter... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif

Avert your eyes, young Steve.

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NorrisMcWhirter
05-10-2004, 10:09 AM
Hi,

Quite simply:

a. Avoid combat unless you have a height advantage. This is almost always true and certainly so for the 190.

b. Don't think that poor vis = poor fighter. Yes, the view is **** and yes, it makes life more difficult.

c. The 190 has excellent firepower, irrespetive of AEP porking, and is well suited to spray and pray tactics.

d. Remember that, for the most part, the 190 will sustain much more damage than the 109 (apart from the gunsight falling off) so don't be too afraid to take a certain amount of risk in an engagement.

e. The 190 is fast. Extend. Disengage if necessary.

The bottom line is that there is simply nothing more satisying, with that limited view, then blindly firing into space only to have it filled by a plane just at the right moment because of a wicked deflection shot. Simply sitting up someone's **** spraying away because you are manoverable enough to do so is a poor substitute.

Cheers,
Norris

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F19_Ob
05-10-2004, 10:11 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by airplanekiller:
I am having a very difficult time diving down or turning to line up shots becuase of the bad visibility out of the cockpit. Was it really this bad in real life? I amazed that German pilots could do anything other than a shallow shot from below with the FW190.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



No the visibility was better in RL. Just by moving your head 10-20cm back or forward or any direction alows the pilot to see easily behind the bars ( u can test this in a car, just lean forward a few cm and look past the bars).

These headmovements arnt posible to achive effectively on sims, hence different aids like no cockpit, zoomfunctions and padlock.

So planes with thick ckpitbars are a real challange to fly since only a fraction off the "air" is visible.

cheers

WooHooToYou
05-10-2004, 10:14 AM
My best FW190 tip is to choose something else (like a Yak3).

Korolov
05-10-2004, 10:48 AM
The Fw-190 flies best when nobody sees you coming. This means, as Icefire already said, you fly as a team with another Fw, or you fly on a server with near max difficulty.

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faustnik
05-10-2004, 11:01 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WooHooToYou:
My best FW190 tip is to choose something else (like a Yak3).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's not right. The 190 requires more discipline than any other a/c to be successful, but, if you follow a few simple rules you can do very well with it. It seems like only a few are willing to take the time to learn it.

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Hunde_3.JG51
05-10-2004, 02:02 PM
Here are some pointers (some mentioned already):

-Full-switch servers benefit the Focke Wulf, the 190 is a great plane to bounce others in because it has good speed, high speed handling, and firepower.

-Gain altitude whenever you can. Engage with an advantage, disengage if you lose it or get jumped. Split-s works great as climbing will get you shot and other planes will out-turn you. Keep the fight at high speed where your plane handles as good as anyone's, if not better.

-Learn high speed gunnery, it is much different that TnB gunnery. Learn to anticipate more while your opponent is maneuvering rather than following. I recommend setting up a QMB with a couple A-5's against a bunch of Hurricanes. This will teach you about gunnery at high speed against a slower opponent.

-Use rudder corrections alot, it is part of high speed gunnery. If your opponent changes direction at the last moment you can kick your rudder at the last second and get a burst on him. This takes practice but with time it will be done unconciously and will make you a much better shooter. And after awhile you will not even notice "the bar," I swear.

-Find your opponent first and stalk him. Don't fly straight at him as soon as you see him. Try to determine where he is heading and sneak in on him. Try to imagine what he sees and where his blind spots are. When diving in on him get as low as possible to stay out of sight, but don't sacrifice your speed advantage.

-Use wingman and friendlies, I can't emphasize this enough. The 190 is not a lone wolf plane but is an excellent 4 vs. 4 plane. Often you can simply out-run pursuers and let your buddies pick them off of you. As long as energy is equal or to your advantage, speed and high speed handling will keep you alive. If you don't have advantage, work to at least even it out then disengage (see link posted above by Venom to my previous post).

-Don't use "auto" prop-pitch, use between 80-100% manual.

-Know other planes strengths, where they are faster and where you are faster. For example, drag a Mustang to the deck or up to 5,000m or so, in between around 3,000m he will be stronger. Knowing where planes are stronger takes alot of time and testing, but it is very useful if you want to employ tactics properly, especially if you want to disengage.

-I like to trim the nose down a good bit from start, I fly the 190 at high speed more often than not and I don't need the nose pulling up on me, this can really effect your gunnery if not accounted for, especially flying at 600-700km/h.

-Fire at very close range, don't fire from far off and alert your opponent prematurely during your attack run. In some, more maneuverable planes you want to scare them and force them to maneuver, not in the 190. Be accurate.

-When attacking an opponent do not follow unless they are making gentle turns. If you are lining him up and he banks hard, simply break off and climb away. He has now lost energy and you have increased your advantage. Try to force him to evade and bleed energy. Not great for Hollywood movies but very effective at gaining an advantage.

-Always keep in mind that almost every plane will out-turn you in sustained turns, and almost every plane will out-climb you in sustained climbs. Never think you can out-turn someone, unless flying at very high speeds but this is more for defensive than offensive value. Never rely on climb either, with the Dora it is more acceptable.

-If you do try to climb away, do so at higher speeds than in most planes. The 190A likes to climb at around 350 or so km/h, don't climb below that speed. Remember also that above 2,000m your climb will start to fall off even more, though speed will increase. The 190 seems to like it around 1,500m and below, and between 4,500m and 6,000m.

-Head-ons are acceptable in the FW-190A, maybe the only plane in the game where this is the case. You should come out the victor in a head-on attack because of your excellent firepower and engine durability. More importantly your opponent often will be less than willing to go head-on and will take evasive action, so you simply climb up and use his maneuver against him. When going head-on I usually aim slightly high because the bullets/rounds will drop and because I want to force him down or to the side. This is one case where it is good to fire from farther out, don't worry about wasting ammo you have plenty.

-Evasive maneuvers can be very effective at high speed. You should be going fast anyway, but if not dive, jink, and gain speed. Severe maneuvers when an opponent is behind you, even to the point of blackout as long as you are aware of angle the blackout is induced at, can be effective because if he wants to follow chances are he will blackout also. Try to ride the edge and not black-out, this takes experience. If blacked-out make subtle maneuvers because you will often still have minor control of your aircraft.

-FW-190 has more range than say, a 109. Don't take 100% fuel if you don't have too. On most online maps 50% is enough.

-I prefer to set convergence for cannons at 500m, the rounds/bullets leave your aircraft at a much flatter angle than say at 200m, keeping them more level in your gunsight and making deflection shooting easier. At 200m your rounds actually leave the aircraft at a slight downward angle, you don't need four cannons to hit in the same spot anyway. 500m also gives you a bigger hitbox, or more "spread."

I'm forgetting some stuff I'm sure but my hands are getting tired.

Again, you really don't notice the view after awhile so don't give up on her.

Hope this helps.


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[This message was edited by Hunde_3.JG51 on Mon August 16 2004 at 11:56 PM.]

Venom079
05-10-2004, 02:47 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gifman, great pointers Hunde! You seem to have the focke-wulf down to a science, good stuff! I have been lured slowly but surely into becoming a butcher pilot...Even though i'm a big lover of all a/c but US a/c in particular being a US native, i gave up on the jug as a fighter...Other fellas can handle her with no sweat but she isn't the right bird for my style after hours and hours of getting pounded. I'll stick with using her as a fighter/bomber a/c and focuss my attention on the 190's primarily for D/F.(Atleast maybe until the .50's are fixed...lol) I have had a lot better success with the A-9 loaded with those nasty 108 cannonshttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/icon_twisted.gif and can tell a significant difference in combat maneuvers...These pointers that you have laid out on the table are greatly appreciated(by me atleast) and admire your knowledge of the "butcher bird"!

LuftLuver
05-10-2004, 05:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hunde_3.JG51:
I took the time to learn it, and I feel honored to be among the "few" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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"All your bases are belong to us."

Venom079
05-10-2004, 05:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LuftLuver:
"All your bases are belong to us."
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

all your bases are?http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

Baltar
05-10-2004, 05:39 PM
If you are playing in a LAN game, I recommend unplugging your opponent's network cable http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Hunde_3.JG51
05-10-2004, 07:18 PM
Luft, it was just a joke concerning the post before mine. I removed it for you. I post numerous tips to help out and you concentrate on that http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif.

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LuftLuver
05-10-2004, 07:37 PM
Grrrr Hunde,

I don't ever grab the right icon. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif

I think you're wacky for that line. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

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"All your bases are belong to us."

WOLFMondo
05-11-2004, 01:06 AM
I just started flying the FW190 online a bit more and its a very satisfying plane when you get a kill. Its a plane that require patience though unlike turn and burn planes. Its like a P47 but lighter.

The way I look at it is never attack a plane thats the same alt or above, run away and gain height and energy and then attack. If you pick a target and head down for it and you miss keep going, don't turn, climb just look back and watch the guy struggle to follow you.

I have to agree with using wingmen. 2 FW190's can take down 2 of any other aircraft you could fly against.

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Naval
05-16-2004, 06:50 AM
Bump

Matz0r
05-16-2004, 09:23 AM
double post

Matz0r
05-16-2004, 09:23 AM
I've yet to figure out a good defensive against the P51D. Only thing I've found relatively effective is diving all the way to the deck going faster than 800 kph making the P51 break off. Any tips?

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WWMaxGunz
05-16-2004, 10:04 AM
If you steep dive and pull out to run, your enemy can dive less steeply and have a good chance to catch you close enough to shoot. Most efficient manuevers are the ones least drastic.

Jinking:
The FW's are better at rolling than anything else in general (I think maybe speed and alt will affect this...) so barrel roll (very hard to hit and keep shots on) a random amount usually to a side and or down and then do a not hard jink.
If the other tries to follow you in the roll then he will be longer getting to the bank you took off on. If he stays level then he will have to initiate but where you do turn, he may be quicker following than if he tried to roll with you. You might roll multiple times before peeling off.
Don't turn hard. You will lose speed and he may be doing a high yoyo that will leave you truely screwed.
As long as you start your turn first you are effectively turning quicker. He will not only be late but have to pull more turn to get back on your tail. That gives you time to use. If you have enough and speed too then you can rise, wingover and be coming back at him before he can do more than start to react, but don't count on it -- look first even if you have to sideslip or roll up for a moment.

This works with any plane with a good edge in roll over the other. The more difference, the more time/distance you can gain. Don't play his game, don't just bank and turn. If you do then don't blame your plane if you lose.


Neal

Yum_Yum
05-16-2004, 11:29 AM
Hello airplanekiller http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif,

A good time for attack would be when your enemy is pre-occupied by something else!. This may be when they are attacking another friendly aircraft and become fixated, or they may be running from other friendly aircraft trying to avoid thier fire!.

You can see shooting long before you see an actual plane, so watch to see where shooting is taking place and approach the area with caution because everyone in it will be very alert!.

If you want to get into a better position remember the colours of the shots being fired, usually blue and yellow = Axis aircraft, red and green = Allied, this is useful because it tells you who is doing the running and who is the chaser!. If you spotted a line of red shots being fired .. you can make a good asumption that an allied plane is at the end of it long before you see the plane itself.

Using such information you can plan your attack before you see the actual aircraft you want to shoot at. If you decied to attack, make best speed and try to line up a shot, only make slight corrections as you run in, weather you hit or miss mainting you speed is of more importance, cut through the dogfight and move away to safety before repeating the process.

There will be lots of advice, tips and practices and I especially agree with what NorrisMcWerter and Hunde_3.JG51 have wrote.

Don't be disheartend by the view from the cockpit, the Focke Wulf requres lots of paitence and practice and demands every bit of your atension before you get the rewards, After which you will be writing tips on threads like for this for others http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

[This message was edited by Yum_Yum on Sun May 16 2004 at 11:48 AM.]

TooCooL34
05-16-2004, 12:44 PM
Make Hunde's post sticky.

It's a best answer for Luftdummies.
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karost
05-17-2004, 02:36 AM
you'er right Hande,in Full switch host, 190 is danger for spit5
I try to learn to improve my skill in 190 but, same like our friends here said, 190 like a lady, she need gentle and discipline in energy-rule and sometime very boring me when spit5 behind me, it's take long time to extend and re-enter.

and thanks for rudder corrections trip , this trip is very good for 4x20mm like 190 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif



when I stay on P-51 I like to stay over 6,000-7000meter to looking 190 below coz, I know that 190 will looking target below him and I wait him climb up atfer he finish his bussines then then I will finish him http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
so airplanekiller , when you apply BnZ or hi-speed attack, make sure no one drive behind and over you.

S!

Bartsimpson-
05-17-2004, 08:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
I just started flying the FW190 online a bit more and its a very satisfying plane when you get a kill. Its a plane that require patience though unlike turn and burn planes. Its like a P47 but lighter.

The way I look at it is never attack a plane thats the same alt or above, run away and gain height and energy and then attack. If you pick a target and head down for it and you miss keep going, don't turn, climb just look back and watch the guy struggle to follow you.

I have to agree with using wingmen. 2 FW190's can take down 2 of any other aircraft you could fly against.

http://bill.nickdafish.com/sig/mondo.jpg
http://www.wolfgaming.net<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Run away!!!!! ? lol http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Odranoel1
05-18-2004, 02:25 PM
I am a FW 190 fan (no ace!). Back in the pre 1.2 days this was a terrific BnZ plane (especially the A9) and I learnt a lot from some of the FW190 experts here (Hi Yum_Yum http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif)

Sadly, after being patched and patched, this aircraft is now crippled in my view http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif (and I dont even run AEP!)
The climb rate is frustrating. by the time you get to a decent alt, you need 5 minutes to cool down http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif. If you ever get caught without a significant alt advantage, you're dead or must dive and run away until the other opponent gets bored, then another 10 minutes to regain alt and cool down the engine http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif. grrr
So yes, it is for patient pilots...
The other day, I bumped into a 190 pilot I highly respect, I was in a Ki 84. He flew perfectly, but it was an easy kill, twice. I felt sorry for him. Even an ace in a FW190 stands no chance against an average Ki84 or LA 7 pilot, unless the fighting field is in favor of the FW... I have not even mentioned the amazing er... noise of the Mk 108. The only thing amazing left of it...

Can we please have the Mk 108 back? and maybe a fair relationship in terms of climb rate and E-preservation vs the other 1944 planes? Oh and if it were possible to rivet the wings back in place so they dont break off every time a 7.62 bullet flies by...

Butcher bird got butchered http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

MrOblongo
08-06-2004, 10:41 PM
Ok, the Fw190 might not be the very best turner but come on!, the Fw190 turn like a cow...the other day had problems "dogfighting" a B17! (Not Joking), and have that horrible flight characteristic flying below 300km/h (always shaking and about to stall), i can say is the most unstable plane in the game (maybe im wrong :P). Anyway, Bf109 Rules. and the best tactic to fly a Fw190 is do it with teammates and if if u get an enemy at the same level as you, bail out http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.
Hehe.

julien673
08-06-2004, 11:00 PM
In doghtfight.. its easy to kill the enemy whit the FW190... roll rate and B&Z tactic...isn t like the la7 or the yak3....

This plane is like the P47... but much better http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif strong... good firepower.. good dive speed

You must have some different tactic for each plane http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif