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View Full Version : 2 things AC3 did well but then vanished



pacmanate
03-18-2015, 05:17 PM
Rock climbing and Tree running!

I just looked back at some AC3 videos and the rock climbing was such a great addition, finally they weren't obstacles, we could traverse them.

Same goes for Tree running, also a great addition.


AC Unity ruined the latter. I don't know if you guys noticed, but they simplified it a tonne. Firstly, the only trees present are Y shaped trees. Second, if you are at the bottom of the Y, you just do the scramble movement, exactly the same as the one you do on buildings. There is no kick back like in AC3 or specific movement for it and it doesnt even look right.


I really hope both of these make a proper return in Victory in some form because they took traversal in an interesting direction with their addition. I just have a hard time wondering why rock climbing, all that time and effort spent on it, was used in one game.

ze_topazio
03-18-2015, 05:39 PM
I quite missed rock climbing in AC4 and Rogue, and pole climbing is also gone from those games.

JustPlainQuirky
03-18-2015, 06:08 PM
To be fair, Paris wasnt a place for tree or rock climbing.

though ACIV didnt have much of an excuse for lack of rock climbing IMO. There were rocks everywhere

VestigialLlama4
03-18-2015, 06:12 PM
Rock climbing and Tree running!

I just looked back at some AC3 videos and the rock climbing was such a great addition, finally they weren't obstacles, we could traverse them.

Same goes for Tree running, also a great addition.


Well it's not just that, the whole natural landscape they built for AC3 in the Frontier and the Homestead is gone in Black Flag and Rogue. Compare the jungle missions in Black Flag to the Frontier environment, say in the William Johnson Assassination mission or the Forts. The BF jungle missions feel like video game levels, fun and actually pretty well made but the AC3 ones actually make you feel that you are in nature. Black Flag at least has the excuse of being located on the Caribbean with a bunch of islands scattered around and making open-world sailing a reality, the trouble is the polygons for the vast stretches of ocean overtake the one for land based gameplay. The end result is all the island landmasses feel pretty flat on the whole, with say one or two exceptions. Like the islands with Mayan architecture are especially obvious in their use of ruins, though I do like Tulum. ROGUE however has no excuse or justification. It pales next to the Prologue of AC3 (set in the same era) in terms of graphics and visual presentation.


I really hope both of these make a proper return in Victory in some form because they took traversal in an interesting direction with their addition. I just have a hard time wondering why rock climbing, all that time and effort spent on it, was used in one game.

Well, the obvious answer is that Paris is not a mountainous and rocky area and neither is London for that matter. Rock climbing and the like should ideally have been there in BLACK FLAG and especially Freedom Cry since the landscape there supports it. The rock and tree based gameplay was only there in the first place because Colonial America did not support the run-and-climb building gameplay of AC1-ACR, so they had to go a different direction and went to make Parkour in Natural environments.

SpiritOfNevaeh
03-18-2015, 06:21 PM
I agree that those were fun elements in AC3.

But from what I've seen and heard, Paris wasn't the place for tree climbing/rock climbing and such.

The only way they can bring that back properly is in a setting similar to the frontier.

Shahkulu101
03-18-2015, 06:24 PM
Those will return in future, if the setting is suitable. We don't know if they've 'vanished' or not. Although if they are sticking with the whole "back to the roots" thing - we may not see a rural setting for quite some time.

Fatal-Feit
03-18-2015, 06:36 PM
Paris and Versailles aren't suited for neither tree climbing or rock climbing, and there were actually, surprisingly, more climbable trees present and suited for navigation flow than in Boston and New York.

I'm more peeved about the rock climbing. It's the one mechanic that have been inconsistent since AC3. And even AC3 didn't nail it. They removed most of it in Black Flag, which was a fantastic location for it, limiting the players to specific walls suited for the current sequence. In Rogue, it has become this weird, almost immersion breaking, mechanic where you can only climb certain rocks that are highlighted in white chalk. It's gone in Unity, but again, the setting doesn't ask for it.

Sushiglutton
03-18-2015, 06:43 PM
Agree, thought both were well made. I also think M made a good point on the podcast about how much the rural/city dynamic adds to an OW game. It gives you two very different flavours. When you get tired of one you can do the other and the entire feel of the game shifts. That was one of the greatest strength of AC3.

After AC3 I interpreted the feedback as people really liked the frontier in principal, but thought it was a bit empty in terms of activities (the butchered hunting mechanics didn't help ofc. Also the lack of systemic enemy setups (were a couple of caravans, but not enough interesting stuff happened)). When people said "back to basics" I never took that as meaning "city only", but rather "assassin activities mostly".

I like the idea of the protagonist having an "occupation" besides the assassin activities. Like Edward being a pirate and Connor a fur tradesman. However in the former case the activity was fun, in the latter it sadly wasn't.

pacmanate
03-20-2015, 12:43 AM
I'm not saying that I wanted lots of trees in Paris. Just that i wanted proper animations for it.

As for Rocks climbing, I think Darby said in AC4 they wanted rocks to be obstacles. That's fine and all, but on the land areas why not? Rogue bought it back but simplified it greatly by using the normal building structure verticle climb animations.

All i'm saying is that if tree running is a thing in Victory, just give us animations made for it instead of it looking odd, and if there are rocks, let us scale them.

HiddenKiller612
03-20-2015, 01:06 AM
Just imagine an entire group of assassin's in trees.... then you see a templar caravan below... and just as the templars are beneath them... they descend and attack.

SixKeys
03-20-2015, 02:35 AM
I agree that rock-climbing in AC3 was fantastic. I liked it more than tree-running. It felt like a natural evolution of AC1-style parkour, which was the idea that anything that looked climbable could be climbed, and it looked completely believable.

I doubt we'll see it back anytime soon, though. Not many mountains to climb in Victorian London or the surrounding countryside.

Shahkulu101
03-20-2015, 02:41 AM
That reminds me to ask.

Are the any possible rural/forest-y areas that could feature in Victory or is it all just barren, flat countryside on the outskirts of London?

Namikaze_17
03-20-2015, 03:07 AM
That reminds me to ask.

Are their possible rural/forest-y areas that could feature in Victory or is it all just barren, flat countryside on the outskirts of London?

I'm thinking the latter, my friend.

Though rural/forest areas would've been cool to see.

VestigialLlama4
03-20-2015, 05:20 PM
That reminds me to ask.

Are the any possible rural/forest-y areas that could feature in Victory or is it all just barren, flat countryside on the outskirts of London?

Maybe the hero can go rock climbing off the white cliffs of Dover, you know white limestock rocks if they bring Tombs. Maybe we can also visit Stonehenge. The real mountainous regions are in Scotland. Within mainland England, since its an Island nation, the coasts have a lot of hilly terrain and cliffs. London was pretty urbanized by the 19th Century.

Shahkulu101
03-20-2015, 05:37 PM
Maybe the hero can go rock climbing off the white cliffs of Dover, you know white limestock rocks if they bring Tombs. Maybe we can also visit Stonehenge. The real mountainous regions are in Scotland. Within mainland England, since its an Island nation, the coasts have a lot of hilly terrain and cliffs. London was pretty urbanized by the 19th Century.

I'd bet on Stonehenge being some sort of precursor sight.

Visiting Scotland, now that I'd love to see. I have a tiny bit of hope that Victory will feature multiple cities in the UK, Glasgow or Edinburgh being one of them.

ze_topazio
03-20-2015, 05:44 PM
I wouldn't bet on multiple cities, they're probably going for the Unity approach with one single large city.

Shahkulu101
03-20-2015, 05:51 PM
I wouldn't bet on multiple cities, they're probably going for the Unity approach with one single large city.

Yah I know, hence the 'tiny bit of hope' part.

I'd actually prefer multiple cities, each of them with a little less detail and graphical fidelity than say, Paris, to compensate. It's nice to have a little variety, Paris was varied but multiple locations that have their own look and feel is nice to have. So I'd rather the cities not be quite so spectacular, so we can visit different places.

STDlyMcStudpants
03-20-2015, 06:14 PM
How bout hunting?
I've said it once and I'll say it again... AC3 is the Red Dead Redemption of Assassin's Creed ... infact IM ALMOST POSITIVE that the game was modeled around the idea of that game.
I miss rock climbing of course... but i miss the world feeling alive...
AC3 did right with its world what RDR did right... it took emptyness and brought it to life....
Sure if you spend as much time with AC3 spawn points become apparent..
But during your first experience with the frontier and the homestead, the world feels so alive and real... animals feel living instead of spawned
AC4 they became painfully spawned... ACRo was a joke as well...
AC4, ACRo, and ACU all had a world that felt spawned...
To me the aliveness is the most important thing AC1-AC3 did well that vanished...

To be fair though.. I kinda like the idea of the rock climbing and tree swinging being a Connor thing as a native american...
Connor was an aggressive hunter more than a silent stalker...
He wasnt used to the best of his ability.. but it makes him unique

VestigialLlama4
03-20-2015, 06:35 PM
I'd actually prefer multiple cities, each of them with a little less detail and graphical fidelity than say, Paris, to compensate. It's nice to have a little variety, Paris was varied but multiple locations that have their own look and feel is nice to have. So I'd rather the cities not be quite so spectacular, so we can visit different places.

Well, personally they didn't get Paris (or Versailles) right at all in UNITY. It's just an interactive google map that's overdecorated with item markers, but it doesn't feel as vibrant as Istanbul does. I mean if you read about the actual Paris, it was a city so badass that French Kings avoided stepping into it if they could avoid it. Whole sections of the city were self-governing and the like. None of that comes in the game because Arno is an anti-Revolutionary and we are supposed to see the Revolutionaries as evil poor scum who have no business asking for rights.

I like multiple cities too. Even in AC3, there's a great deal of differences between New York and Boston. Boston is a pro-Revolutionary city, while New York (during the Haytham sections) is occupied by the English, so there's a degree of difference there. Although I feel that New York is a waste without the Great Fire that they planned to include but scrapped ultimately.

Ideally, they should never have gone to Victorian London. They should have gone to Elizabethan England. The London of Shakespeare and Marlowe and Elizabeth and Walter Raleigh, fighting the Spanish Armada, dealing with Francis Drake (definitely voiced by Nolan North) as a slaveowning pirate who massacred Irishmen. There was also Mary Stuart of Scotland and Grace O'Malley an Irish Pirate Queen, you could have had open world sailing along the channel, all the islands, to Scotland and toured everything. You could have had London and several small towns (including Stratford) as key cities. Now that's a goldmine they passed.

GunnerGalactico
03-20-2015, 06:39 PM
To be fair though.. I kinda like the idea of the rock climbing and tree swinging being a Connor thing as a native american...
Connor was an aggressive hunter more than a silent stalker...
He wasnt used to the best of his ability.. but it makes him unique

I kinda wish that he was a good combination of both.

Xstantin
03-20-2015, 06:50 PM
I kinda wish that he was a good combination of both.

You could try here and there until the guards hivemind gets in a way :D that's why I still like "Hostile Negotiations" memory

LoyalACFan
03-20-2015, 06:54 PM
I was blown away by the rock climbing and how natural it looked, but honestly the tree-climbing didn't impress me that much. It was basically just an extension of the beam-running that's been around since AC2 (technically AC1 but Altair could only do that awkward squat-jog on beams). I really wish it were more like the tree-running in the target CGI gameplay video, where the limbs bounce and there are denser tree paths to traverse. It would at least make it look better than a forest of perfectly horizontal branches. Yes, it would be fairly linear, but honestly, the tree-running in AC3 was already basically linear anyway. Most of the limbs were so tall you had to find one specific spot to enter the canopy, and from there, you were mostly stuck to one or two distinct paths. I'm sure the devs would have ideally liked the tree-running to look more like the target video as well (that was their original concept, obviously) but didn't have the time/technology to do it.

Xstantin
03-20-2015, 06:59 PM
I really wish it were more like the tree-running in the target CGI gameplay video, where the limbs bounce and there are denser tree paths to traverse.

Remaster time :D

the_don7684
03-20-2015, 07:00 PM
There were a lot of good things about this game. Those two definitely stick out. Loved running through the trees hunting animals or Templars.... lol

LoyalACFan
03-20-2015, 07:20 PM
Remaster time :D

Truly. If any AC game deserves a remake, it's AC3.

SpiritOfNevaeh
03-20-2015, 11:30 PM
Truly. If any AC game deserves a remake, it's AC3.


Remaster time :D

I second this!!