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Mr.Black24
03-17-2015, 11:54 PM
I remember that many people would like to play Assassin's Creed in a Viking theme era. But than it got thinking: How and why Vikings? If I recall, these ruthless warriors would go after other tribes for conquest. They were nomadic people, who's interests were only to be kept to themselves or expanding their territories. Plus there isn't much of an urban area for an Assassin to move about, which is something that is part of the Assassin's Creed experience, people like going to big cities and urban areas. If I recall, a big chunk of people hated AC3 because it wasn't "exotic" and it was "very neat and linear" Many others didn't like the frontier too (How is that possible?) How can Assassins move about? I can see Assassins using them as allies, perhaps a few of their numbers in there with them, but after that, not much else.

I'm not totally against it, just wondering how would that work?

wvstolzing
03-18-2015, 12:10 AM
I'd welcome a Viking/Norse themed AC, since I find the myth & folklore very intriguing -- admittedly, those aspects don't count for much, nowadays; but if they were to amp up the 'First Civ/hidden history' aspect of the series, interesting things could come out.

There's the myth of the Sword of the Volsungs (featured in a 'Subject 16' puzzle in AC2), for instance; the 'apples' of Freya; Odin as the Wanderer, his 'hybrid' children, and so on.

I used to be a Wagnerite, back in the day(*); so obviously my examples all have some relation to the Ring des Nibelungen -- but suppose you have an AC with ancient Norse *as well as* 19th C. German historical portions. You could include Wagner himself, his nutjob of a wife, and the young Nietzsche. Suppose Wagner's late fascination with the 'Holy Grail' (that resulted in Parsifal; of which the Christian mysticism was one reason for Nietzsche's disillusion with him) has to do, somehow, with his exposure to a PoE. The historical portion could go back and forth between Wagner et al., and whoever the historical inspiration for the Saga of the Volsungs, Sigurd/Siegfried, Brunnhilde/Kriemhild, et al., were.

Hell, now that I think of it, the same template could work for Mozart and his final 'Singspiel', the Magic Flute. It's famously full of freemasonic themes and imagery, and dear old Wolfgang was himself a freemason. What if he was also implicated with the Templars?

(* - my username here is fashioned after the lead character in Wagner's 'Meistersinger von Nürnberg', Walther von Stolzing)

Namikaze_17
03-18-2015, 12:36 AM
I personally find it unique with a lot of interesting battles and such.

Sure, it's not as urban, but so wasn't Black Flag.

I'm willing to give anything a chance honestly.

Matknapers18
03-18-2015, 01:15 AM
Because Vikings are awesome and everyone loves Vikings.

On a serious note, I completely understand your concern for an Viking AC game, the same points have come across my mind aswell. The reason I'd love a Viking AC point is just due to how fantasised the era is. Our perception of Vikings is built entirely from the perspective of western media and culture, which has tainted the historical accuracy that is pretty much unfamiliar with most of us. We hear the words 'Viking' and we think of Iron helmets with horns on them, Skyrim and How to Train a Dragon. Its a perfect opportunity for Ubi to enlighten gamers on the real history behind the era, as oppose to the romanticised interpretation most people have. Thats one of the reasons why I loved AC4. Pirate history is just contaminated by the likes of Pirates of the Caribbean and other western simplifications, and Ubisoft told us what it was all about.

As far as gameplay is concerned, you have a valid argument with the lack of urban playgrounds. But does there really need to be a huge city in order to for be Assassin's? Realistically, are we suggesting that Assassin's only operate in urban centres? That outside of villages and towns, The assassin/templar conflict is just non-existent? Sure free running is a core element of the AC experience, but that doesn't mean Ubi can't manipulate it to function in rural areas. They already did with the Ac3 tree running. I feel like Ubisoft just needs to take a risk to establish their intentions as remaining as one of the big contenders in the industry. They need to change the formula, because in my opinion its getting a but stale. Having this rustic countryside to explore gives Ubisoft so many opportunities to introduce new mechanics and gameplay elements. Take Shadow of Mordor for example. Also has a crucial parkour element, yet the game still works perfectly in what is basically a barren wasteland of nothingness.

It opens a door for countless gameplay elements, many of which appeared in AC3's frontier but were not executed to their full potential. A meaningful hunting system that is more than just QTE's and actually assists the player, allowing them to upgrade equipment and your Viking long ship. Horse riding would make a return as well as a full weather system including snow, rain,day-night cycle storms and the seasons.

Plus, lets not fool ourselves into thinking that 8th century scandinavia is just a vast expanse of trees, fields and snow. There were actually a few big Norse settlements. Take Hedeby for example, an important trading settlement in the Danish-northern German borderland during the Viking Age.


http://i60.tinypic.com/9h4ehd.jpg
http://i62.tinypic.com/2dgudzt.jpg

"Roofs of houses nearly met across the narrow, wood paved roads. Within the town, in addition to trade facilities, were manufacturing facilities. Iron, precious metals, leather, wood, textiles, and bones were worked inside the walls of Hedeby. A semicircular earth and timber wall surrounded and protected the town. The wall was 1.3km (0.6 miles) around, and 5.1m (16 feet) high. The only entrances to the town were through the two gates to the north and south, and from the harbor on the fjord. The harbor had several causeways and a semi-circular palisade for defense. The wall enclosed an area of approximately 24 hectare (60 acres)."

This sounds pretty darn good to me. And there were multiple towns like this. Plenty to populate an 'empty' map. Imagine sailing though the rough, icy ocean and seeing a bustling town like this appear through the fog, all the while listening to the chants of your badass viking crew. That brings me round to naval. For me, the Viking Age is the perfect setting to revive the well received naval gameplay for current gen systems. Im no Vikings historian but i don't think there would much naval combat/warfare. As an alternative, the new naval gameplay is your new means of transport. You could argue that it is replacing the urban parkour that is missing from the traditional AC equation. I haven't played Windwaker but Im pretty sure that it function in a similar manner, the sailing allowing you to get from place to place.

Viking longboats were not designed for open seas, so this fits in with the natural progression of exploring the map. Instead of instantly throwing everything in your face, players go at their own pace. In order to survive the harsh, rough open seas, your boat must be more durable. Upgrade your boat and you can venture further across the ocean. If you don't upgrade, you ship is going to get ripped to shreds by the unforgiving ocean. Players feel immersed, exploring the unexplored uncharted locations, fogged out by the map. As oppose to AC4 which was more like "Here's a massive, awesome map, here are all the collectibles, go have fun." Here the player feels like they are just part of this world, not like the world was designed for them.

If that didn't persuade you, maybe these will.

http://i61.tinypic.com/59ycnr.png
http://i61.tinypic.com/2ytqpa8.jpg
http://i58.tinypic.com/ofo70n.jpg

Imagine Holding a button causing your character to shout shout 'shield wall' resulting in the whole viking army making a wall of shields and chanting in response. Not sure how they would implement that, but I'm 90% certain it would give me goosebumps. Like this:
http://i57.tinypic.com/9azm8y.jpg

I want the Viking Age because not only will it wish current gen hardware and technology but i will really push Ubisoft. Push Ubisoft into making new ideas and being original again. I didn't even get started on the whole Viking Gods thing. Thor, Loki, Odin and Freyja would really test the writers as far as First Civ is concerned. That has some very intriguing opportunities. Sorry for being such a boring sod, lol.

Megas_Doux
03-18-2015, 03:28 AM
The case that Matknapers18 makes is rather interesting indeed. However, I prefer having URBAN enviroments preferably mixed with rural ones, but In the end, the recreation of cities is what got me to this francise. We've had three consecutive rural AC´s in a row, I grew weary of it, plus naval l here would be like for exploration only. Besides, having this 1:1 buildings technology on a setting like this would be WASTE, since these villages were pretty much that, just villages....

AC IV is my favorite game in the franchise, but I kinda see it now almost as an spin off due to its HEAVILY naval themed, hence why MANY "casuals" love it. Being honest, if I were in charge, I would take a break -Not happening I know- to improve boh the "normal" stealth and social stealth, make cities even more alive and such. Therefore I say NO to this "Warrior Creed" approach of yours. Ubi could make it work as another franchise based on Naval and such, but I DO NOT want this for AC...

Namikaze_17
03-18-2015, 03:50 AM
lTherefore I say NO to this "Warrior Creed" approach of yours.

What makes you think it would become "warrior's creed" again if it's in a viking setting?

Not getting on you or anything, just curious.

I personally think if done right, it can retain the Assassin feel and all that.

Megas_Doux
03-18-2015, 04:24 AM
What makes you think it would become "warrior's creed" again if it's in a viking setting?

Not getting on you or anything, just curious.
ll
I personally think if done right, it can retain the Assassin feel and all that.

Matknapers wrote his perspective of why the setting would rock based on sailing, hunting, fighting with your badass comrades while pillaging and conquering and that´´s fine. Thing is that I rather improve core mechanics like stealth, AI regarding guards and crowds for instance. I might be a purist, but I would like to take on the original concept and give it the HUGE improvement required instead of going the opposite direction of those "side" elements. However I do acknowledge that Vikings are pretty much on the same league of pirates in terms of being popular romanticized figures of history -although WAY below ninjas- which will attract many that just dont like or got tired of the "boring cities". It´s just that I prefer the "old school" approach.

Dont get me wrong, that setting has ALL the potential of providing great sandbox possibilities that give you variety with relative ease -one of Unity´s main flaws- as the ones matt properly described. But in the end and I´m likely biased for I prefer combination of both rural and huge urban playgrounds with imposing buildings and different styles of architectures - the latter environment being the imperative one, though- instead one that is mostly countryside/sea and villages of variable size because I grew weary of it. You know, despite the fact I prefer rural Scandinavia over Colonial America based on sheer beauty by a HUGE margin, I´m still a city boy at the end of the day.....

Norrin_Radd_1966
03-18-2015, 05:02 AM
This is a bad idea. Why? As a lifelong Minnesota Vikings fan I can tell you from experience that you would never able to complete the last mission and therefore, could not complete the game.

D.I.D.
03-18-2015, 07:34 AM
If people think it would be a pillaging game with mad berserker warriors and swirly tattoos, they've completely misunderstood who the Vikings were.

The most interesting thing about the Vikings is not warfare or even simply travel, but trade. These were sophisticated, worldly people, with a strong interest in aesthetic and ergonomic design who went out seeking novelty. The Vikings travelled out of eastern Europe, some into Russia and then south, but also down through Turkey into the MIddle East. They involved themselves in silk and spice trading all along the Silk Road routes back to their homelands, and were often buried wearing their silks. This was a culture that needed to master communication and they appear to have done so very effectively. Famously, a Viking regiment known as the Varangarians became the official imperial bodyguards for the Byzantine royal family, and they controlled the trade route from the Middle East through Russia and back to Europe. They were sent as an elite fighting unit on sanctioned piracy raids, and as land troops fought in every territory of the Byzantine Empire for two centuries. Their runic language can still be seen carved into the stone in many locations in Istanbul.

That's the more interesting game we ought to see if they make a Viking title, and it'll give you all the densely populated urban areas you could want, plus sea warfare, multiple cities, and economic mini-games.

wvstolzing
03-18-2015, 09:53 AM
Besides...


https://youtu.be/HyKoLNucs7w

Jackdaw951
03-18-2015, 10:46 AM
Because Vikings are awesome and everyone loves Vikings.

. . .

Viking longboats were not designed for open seas, so this fits in with the natural progression of exploring the map. Instead of instantly throwing everything in your face, players go at their own pace. In order to survive the harsh, rough open seas, your boat must be more durable. Upgrade your boat and you can venture further across the ocean. If you don't upgrade, you ship is going to get ripped to shreds by the unforgiving ocean. Players feel immersed, exploring the unexplored uncharted locations, fogged out by the map. As oppose to AC4 which was more like "Here's a massive, awesome map, here are all the collectibles, go have fun." Here the player feels like they are just part of this world, not like the world was designed for them.

The thread's title immediately got me thinking of how cool a new seafaring AC or offshoot might be. I'd hate for Black Flag and Rogue to be a dead end in the series, in terms of gameplay. I'd love to sail some longboats with my squad of mates to conquer some new lands. If they give us some rich history along the way, so much the better, as long as what I get to do is as thrilling as the naval outings in BF.

Hans684
03-18-2015, 04:48 PM
Why limit AC's unlimited potential? All places and eras comes with their own unique stuff that separate each AC from each other.

Shahkulu101
03-18-2015, 08:44 PM
Who doesn't love pillaging, raping, long hair and Beards?

I would LOVE Viking era.

http://i.imgur.com/tZOS8.gif

Democrito_71
03-19-2015, 01:11 AM
Who doesn't love pillaging, raping, long hair and Beards?

I would LOVE Viking era.

Actually, that's not completely true. Vikings had restrictive laws that forbid Vikings to rape women who were free. Raping a free woman were considered as a serious crime although, the vikings were allowed to rape thralls/Slaves which is horrible

On the topic I would love a Viking setting. Assassins Creed doesn't require to visit huge cities like Paris and London. This franchise is so diverse that we can visit all time periods if we want to and with a Viking setting we can visit multiple villages, norse towns, towns in Britain, parkour through deep forests, sail in rivers and in the sea, pillaging villages, shield wall combat, multiple weapons like short axes- heavy axes- swords- daggers- spears- bow & arrows- and of course shields, infiltrate towns while the town people are confessing at the local church(Yeah, vikings actually used this tactic to sneak into towns during day time), sneak into enemy camps while the enemies are sleeping and put their tents on fire, improved stealth & faster crutching, improved tree- & cliff climbing etc.

I don't understand the fans who don't think this setting would work just because Vikings didn't have huge cities and such.
Was there a problem with the smaller cities like Kingston or Nassau in Black Flag?

I found no problem with those 2 cities being smaller than AC3s New York. I think a Viking setting can work perfectly without huge cities and I think if we had huge cities like Paris in every game, the franchise would become stiff imo. :cool:

Mr.Black24
03-19-2015, 01:30 AM
My thought is how would the plot flow? How can an Assassin/Templar conflict affect a bunch of Vikings? I mean Assassin's Creed is centered around Urban areas, because for the sole reason of political events. The American Revolution, the Renaissance Era, the Third Crusades, what they all have in common is the shift in power. Power that both Assassins and Templars are after for their own goals. These events would affect society in a large magnitude. What would the Assassins and Templars want with a bunch of tribes and villages? They had no empire, no state, no influence over other empires other than fear, only a Chieftain as leader, which is to make sure their villages are tended and to take from other enemies, and thats pretty much it.

"pillaging villages": Assassins don't do that since its forbidden to harm innocents. They're trying to create peace through freedom after all.

Plus thinking about it now, the Assassin Order hasn't been established yet until around 1090. Its been said too that the Assassins have been around longer, however not in an organized form until the founding in Persia and Syria. They were psndo-Assassins, the ideals were there, but a solid foundation was not yet formed.

pirate1802
03-19-2015, 01:33 AM
http://i.imgur.com/tZOS8.gif

Lol, EXACTLY what I thought when reading that sentense. Nah, I won't like pillaging, given what it is historically accompanied with

Namikaze_17
03-19-2015, 03:24 AM
It´s just that I prefer the "old school" approach.

I´m still a city boy at the end of the day.....

I suppose that's understandable.

But like Hans, I believe AC has that potential to become what it pleases and not a specific format.

However, I agree completely that the core mechanics come first( along with recent AC's) which is why I can wait a bit longer for the setting if it ever comes.

Democrito_71
03-19-2015, 02:28 PM
My thought is how would the plot flow? How can an Assassin/Templar conflict affect a bunch of Vikings? I mean Assassin's Creed is centered around Urban areas, because for the sole reason of political events. The American Revolution, the Renaissance Era, the Third Crusades, what they all have in common is the shift in power. Power that both Assassins and Templars are after for their own goals. These events would affect society in a large magnitude. What would the Assassins and Templars want with a bunch of tribes and villages? They had no empire, no state, no influence over other empires other than fear, only a Chieftain as leader, which is to make sure their villages are tended and to take from other enemies, and thats pretty much it.

"pillaging villages": Assassins don't do that since its forbidden to harm innocents. They're trying to create peace through freedom after all.

Plus thinking about it now, the Assassin Order hasn't been established yet until around 1090. Its been said too that the Assassins have been around longer, however not in an organized form until the founding in Persia and Syria. They were psndo-Assassins, the ideals were there, but a solid foundation was not yet formed.

Before 1091, the Assassins did not fight for freedom. They fought for peace so my plot idea would be that the British Assassins pays and support the Norwegian Vikings(Ragnar maybe??) to invade and raid England of it's gold & treasures to weaken the Templars influence economically over England. So, the British Assassins pays the Norwegian Vikings to raid their own Country to pillaging villages and towns and sees this as a necessary evil to weaken the Templar influence so the Assassins can establish their version of peace.

Or, the Norwegian Vikings just decides randomly to sail west, ends up in England, pillaging their villages & towns and comes across in between the Assassin/Templar conflict, the Vikings steals one or 2 sorts of pieces of Eden from a monastery, this attracts the attention from both the Assassins and the Templars so the Vikings decides to fight against both orders :cool:

Mr.Black24
03-19-2015, 06:58 PM
Before 1091, the Assassins did not fight for freedom. They fought for peace so my plot idea would be that the British Assassins pays and support the Norwegian Vikings(Ragnar maybe??) to invade and raid England of it's gold & treasures to weaken the Templars influence economically over England. So, the British Assassins pays the Norwegian Vikings to raid their own Country to pillaging villages and towns and sees this as a necessary evil to weaken the Templar influence so the Assassins can establish their version of peace.

Or, the Norwegian Vikings just decides randomly to sail west, ends up in England, pillaging their villages & towns and comes across in between the Assassin/Templar conflict, the Vikings steals one or 2 sorts of pieces of Eden from a monastery, this attracts the attention from both the Assassins and the Templars so the Vikings decides to fight against both orders :cool:
Peace by using Freedom has always been the Assassin's goal.

However, reading the rest, it does show some interesting possibility.

Democrito_71
03-19-2015, 07:18 PM
Peace by using Freedom has always been the Assassin's goal.

However, reading the rest, it does show some interesting possibility.

Both orders had the same goals though they used different measures to achieve peace before 1191. The Assassins vision of peace through freedom have been their highest goal and ideal since Altairs time, they also had other ideals & goals at various points in history including justice and knowledge. Then after the fall of Al Mualim in 1191, Altair renewed the Creed by changing it's ultimate goal of peace by absolute freedom so the ideals have changed from time to time and the current goal is today peace through freedom so the statement that freedom has always been the Assassins main goal is incorrect.

On the topic; Thank you for liking my story ideas :cool:

RADAR__4077
03-19-2015, 07:41 PM
What if you play as a viking, you go on a raid and stumble upon some templars. The templars drive the Vikings out with a poe and you are left behind believed to be dead.

The assassins find you, help you recover from your injuries, train you, and tell you about the templars.

Then you find your tribe when they return for revenge, but the templars have moved on.

Then... Something... Something.,.

Maybe you follow your tribe on raids to break away for a mission from the assassins.
Or maybe you want the poe to use as a weapon. Idk :p

I'm just thinking out loud.

I would definitely like to see a variety of weapons and the ability to set things on fire.

Matknapers18
03-19-2015, 07:49 PM
"pillaging villages": Assassins don't do that since its forbidden to harm innocents. They're trying to create peace through freedom after all.


But this is why it is perfect. This line here can set up a whole story. Perfect chance for the writers to introduce a personal conflict within the protagonist. Having this kind of personal dilemma or clash of ideals is perfect in a story. Perhaps our assassin is uncomfortable with these pillages, guilty for the harm he has brought to innocents, yet he cannot relate to any of the other vikings due to their bloodthirsty nature. He is socially isolated. The Assassin's, on the other hand, accept him, as he is welcomed and embraced into the brotherhood, the tenants sympathising with his ideals.

Could even implement this into gameplay. Our protagonist could be like the Oscar Schindler of the Viking Age. Attending the pillages, deceiving his brothers into thinking he has a desire to kill and raid innocents. Yet, upon arrival, he silently vacates from the group, saving and helping civilians, betraying his comrades. Could work nicely with the stealth. All the action of the pillages, the murder, the assault, the theft, can be occurring around you, as you sneak your way around the settlements taking out any viking threats as you go. The protagonist then has the personal conflict of lying to his friends and family. The individual clash of killing his companions and then sharing a drink with their relatives after. Not to mention that our protagonist would be disobeying and defying the gods. The gods who played such a significant part in Viking life at the time. Our character would constantly be questioning his decisions, ashamed and remorseful, terrified by the punishments that the gods have planned for him. All this integrated with the templar conflict could lead to an emotional struggle that we are yet to see in AC. This would probably lead to a penultimate scene in which the vikings hear of your disloyalty. Although that maybe too predictable.

Too clarify, I'm certainly not writer. Just trying to express how our protagonist doesn't necessarily have to be involved in the pillaging.

ze_topazio
03-19-2015, 07:49 PM
An Assassin joins a gang of Vikings undercover for reasons, as the story progresses the protagonist starts losing his way and embracing the vikings more brutal ways without even noticing.

RADAR__4077
03-19-2015, 08:06 PM
But this is why it is perfect. This line here can set up a whole story. Perfect chance for the writers to introduce a personal conflict within the protagonist. Having this kind of personal dilemma or clash of ideals is perfect in a story. Perhaps our assassin is uncomfortable with these pillages, guilty for the harm he has brought to innocents, yet he cannot relate to any of the other vikings due to their bloodthirsty nature. He is socially isolated. The Assassin's, on the other hand, accept him, as he is welcomed and embraced into the brotherhood, the tenants sympathising with his ideals.

Could even implement this into gameplay. Our protagonist could be like the Oscar Schindler of the Viking Age. Attending the pillages, deceiving his brothers into thinking he has a desire to kill and raid innocents. Yet, upon arrival, he silently vacates from the group, saving and helping civilians, betraying his comrades. Could work nicely with the stealth. All the action of the pillages, the murder, the assault, the theft, can be occurring around you, as you sneak your way around the settlements taking out any viking threats as you go. The protagonist then has the personal conflict of lying to his friends and family. The individual clash of killing his companions and then sharing a drink with their relatives after. Not to mention that our protagonist would be disobeying and defying the gods. The gods who played such a significant part in Viking life at the time. Our character would constantly be questioning his decisions, ashamed and remorseful, terrified by the punishments that the gods have planned for him. All this integrated with the templar conflict could lead to an emotional struggle that we are yet to see in AC. This would probably lead to a penultimate scene in which the vikings hear of your disloyalty. Although that maybe too predictable.

Too clarify, I'm certainly not writer. Just trying to express how our protagonist doesn't necessarily have to be involved in the pillaging.

I like it. Potential for first civ/poe, and an assassin who actually cares about the creed. Actually there could be many layers to the story. Throw in a good MD and I think we have a winner.

wvstolzing
03-20-2015, 12:14 AM
Not sure where this notion of 'peace as the end goal' comes from.

For the Assassins, freedom is an end in itself.

For the Templars, order, or at least the rule of a self-appointed elite is the end -- if peace comes as a byproduct of that, they might welcome it; but otherwise, they don't shy away from instigating conflict and war, to make sure their guys hold power.

HiddenKiller612
03-20-2015, 01:02 AM
An Assassin joins a gang of Vikings undercover for reasons, as the story progresses the protagonist starts losing his way and embracing the vikings more brutal ways without even noticing.
like The 13th Warrior....

ze_topazio
03-20-2015, 01:10 AM
Now that you mention, it sounds similar to the plot of that movie, lol

HiddenKiller612
03-20-2015, 01:13 AM
Which is why I brought it up :rolleyes:... not that it's bad to have a similar story as The 13th warrior.... it's all about how you make it your own. Love the movie, still need to read the book.