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XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 03:26 PM
I'm sorry, but I don't understand the level of righteous indignation over FB.

For forty bucks I got a nice bit of software that runs very well (no DTD, no system locks, runs smoothly), does a very good job in simulating flight, and is challenging.

It isn't perfect, but I wouldn't call it bug-ridden as much as quirky. Bug-ridden would be where, due to a clipping error, planes are stuck in the ground (most FPS games, for example, have clipping errors that effect game play).

I've definately gotten my money's worth, and since it's infinately replayable, am continuing to. It's not like most games that are pretty much done once you finish them.

The fact that those few things that do have a minor impact on playability are going to be adjusted with a patch makes it all the better. Just a touch more energy bleed and I'll be very happy - it will be fun to induce stalls easier.

Before you blast me, know that A) I fly both on and offline, B) fly FR (with padlock and speedbar), C) have been flying flight sims since I had a 286, and D) don't have hours and days and years to pour over climb rate charts and detailed blue prints. For every "dog" plane is a pilot that excells in it, for every "uber" plane is someone that spins it into the ground. It's the man, not the machine.

So while many of you are offended on a personal level to some peculiarities, I'm having fun in my MiG.

XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 03:26 PM
I'm sorry, but I don't understand the level of righteous indignation over FB.

For forty bucks I got a nice bit of software that runs very well (no DTD, no system locks, runs smoothly), does a very good job in simulating flight, and is challenging.

It isn't perfect, but I wouldn't call it bug-ridden as much as quirky. Bug-ridden would be where, due to a clipping error, planes are stuck in the ground (most FPS games, for example, have clipping errors that effect game play).

I've definately gotten my money's worth, and since it's infinately replayable, am continuing to. It's not like most games that are pretty much done once you finish them.

The fact that those few things that do have a minor impact on playability are going to be adjusted with a patch makes it all the better. Just a touch more energy bleed and I'll be very happy - it will be fun to induce stalls easier.

Before you blast me, know that A) I fly both on and offline, B) fly FR (with padlock and speedbar), C) have been flying flight sims since I had a 286, and D) don't have hours and days and years to pour over climb rate charts and detailed blue prints. For every "dog" plane is a pilot that excells in it, for every "uber" plane is someone that spins it into the ground. It's the man, not the machine.

So while many of you are offended on a personal level to some peculiarities, I'm having fun in my MiG.

ZG77_Nagual
07-08-2003, 03:29 PM
Support for you point of view!

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michapma
07-08-2003, 03:32 PM
Of course, you're right. Don't worry, "this too shall pass."

Mike

<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10"><tr valign="middle" bgcolor="#3e463b"><td height="40" colspan="3" align="center">The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide project (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/)</a></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#515e2f"><td width="40%">FB engine management:
Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)</td><td align="center">

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Flight Simulation Performance Analyzed (http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_062a.html)
Building a home-made throttle quadrant step by step (http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zkavv)
Sound Can Be Hazardous for Games (http://www6.tomshardware.com/game/20030405/index.html)</td></tr></table>

XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 03:36 PM
I agree, it is a great product and I have faith it will only get better.
There are too many nit picky whiney kids giving their one-sided 2c.



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XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 03:45 PM
Yeah, I've been flying flight sims since 1988. Whinning has been taken to a new level with this community. In the meantime my patience will be rewarded with an excellent flight model and bug patch.

To all Luftwhinners, the 8 .50 cals on my Jug will see you soon. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 03:46 PM
BA_Dart, you and I must have ESPN because I feel the same way.

I look back at how far flightsims have come and, even though I also get annoyed at the odd quirks, I think FB is one the best flightsim to date, bar-none. At the risk of sounding patronizing, I think that most the guys who can remember 16 color ega and 7 fps averages, are fortunate because they can remember back to how arcane flight sims used to be.



Friends don't let friends use MSSQL

XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 04:14 PM
Monguise wrote:
I think that most the guys who can remember 16 color
- ega and 7 fps averages, are fortunate because they
- can remember back to how arcane flight sims used to
- be.

AMEN!
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Message Edited on 07/08/0308:14AM by UCLANUPE

XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 04:17 PM
I totally agree.

More I play FB less I miss this great flight sim called Il-2!

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XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 04:23 PM
Yep.

XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 04:24 PM
I completely agree, FB is a great game and I have gotten many times my money worth out of it already.

My negative commments on this board have completely been because of UBI's complete lack of communication and crappy customer service.

Therefore:
FB great!
UBI bad!

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 04:56 PM
Tall_Canuck wrote:
- I completely agree, FB is a great game , . . . .
- . . . My negative commments on this board have completely
- been because of UBI's complete lack of communication
- and crappy customer service.


Amen Brother! I believe that this sim was worth twice what I paid for it, even without a patch! I somehow feel that even our buddy Oleg is being jerked around by Ubi. My question is the same as everyone else's: We are your customers, so why have you stopped talking to us?

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XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 07:03 PM
Dear Mr. Dart,


Perhaps myou could repost you excellant paper on the Doctine of AI Pilots to boost this boards positive energy a bit & share that with those who haven't seen it ??
I think I saw it over at SimHQ (?)

Oh & a pic for you Sir:

http://www.freeflights.net/takeoff/boxart/icm_mig3.jpg



& a YAK plug.
This is a Yak 9 You can tell by the sturdy build.

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XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 07:48 PM
Thanks for the MiGs and the kind words!

I (heart) my MiG!

The thread you're talking about is this one:

http://oldsite.simhq.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=98;t=000384

Where I show that if you think of AI patterns as a doctrine of flight and tactics rather than simple routines you can overcome and beat them.

This actually can be built on, as the AI acts in particular manners based on their altitude, both above the earth and in relationship to you. Hmmm, think I'll add on to it and bump it on up.

LOL, I didn't think anybody had actually read that thread over at SimHQ, as it got slim response.

XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 08:52 PM
Oh yeah I got a real kick out of that thread, and learned a thing or two also!


Please do add on to it, provides excellant training material, & something to think about when I'm trying to avoid the dulls.

Perhaps someone could examine the ethics of using your AI team mates for bait ? Or of sneaking into the target area from a different direction. Does this make me a selfish git ?

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"Anytime you have an opportunity to make things better and you don't, then you are wasting your time on this earth." -Roberto Clemente

XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 09:26 PM
BA Dart , you nailed it brother !
This sim rocks !!!
I started out on CFS 1 (yuk).
Then went on to CFS 2 (not bad compared to CFS 1, but still yuk).
Then I read in Flight Journal magazine about this wonderful new sim that was coming out called "Il-2 Sturmovik"
???????
What's a Sturmovik ?? LOL /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
So I waited .
And waited .
And finally Christmas rolled around and Santa gave it to me .
I WAS BLOWN AWAY !!!!!!
And this sim , Forgotten Battles ?
EVEN BETTER !!!!!
Sure there are some small issues (very small IMHO) , but as we all know Oleg and his team will deal with them and fix what needs to be (just like in Il-2) .
I have gotten so much pleasure out of this sim , it was $40.00 well spent (even if it was Santa's money) . The aircraft are a joy to fly (hell , they're a joy just to watch). The cockpits are the BEST ! The ground scenery ,...
well you catch my drift .
This sim really rocks !!! And it's only going to become better .
People just don't have any patience , it's a fast-food mentality culture that we live in where everyone wants their cookie RIGHT NOW .
No waiting .
No patience .
If the patch never came out , I still wouldn't be disappointed .
However , it will .
And then it's really gonna ROCK !
Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Haaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwww !!!!!!!!!


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XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 01:56 AM
I think I've figured out part of the problem, i.e., the source of some of the discontent being expressed by some on these boards. When I first got IL-2 way back when, I was fresh off of several other abortive attempts to find a decent/fun flight sim, and I was completely blown away and amazed by IL-2, because it was so far (light years) ahead of the competing flight sims. And with each Patch (which came with fair regularity), it actually got even better.

Then I got FB. While it is still light years ahead of the competing flight sims, its NOT really all that much better (not stunningly so, anyway) than IL-2. That's not to say it doesn't have some cool new stuff (mostly new content) - I'm enjoying it immensely and do not regret at all having spent the money for it. However, it just was not nearly as much of a leap forward compared to IL-2 as IL-2 was compared to its predecessors (IMHO).

If most of the folks here are like me, and haven't flown anything but IL-2 (and now FB) since IL-2 came out (what would be the point??), I can see that the tendency might be for folks to stop comparing FB to other flight sims (which would generally result in major kudos to FB), and instead to start comparing FB to "real life" or at least their perception of real life (which, regardless of how good FB is, is a comparison that is likely to lead to a perception that FB is full of problems/inaccuracies/faults).

Maybe everyone wanting to complain about some problem or other with FB (other than purported unresponsiveness by UBI, which is another matter all together and really has nothing to do with FB itself) should be required first to reload and fly one of the other flight sims out there - I suspect that would cut down greatly on the level of dissatisfaction with the game that we see so often around here.

Wir sind die schwarzen Husaren der Luft,
Die Stukas, die Stukas, die Stukas.

... "Stuka-Lied"

XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 04:06 AM
I concur...(with civ II voice)

<center>

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XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 07:50 PM
lol

XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 08:58 PM
Amen, Dart.

Thanks for saying it. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

S!

tttiger

"I want the one that kills the best with the least amount of risk to me."

-- Chuck Yeager's Description of "The Best Airplane."



Message Edited on 07/09/0309:58AM by tttiger

XyZspineZyX
07-09-2003, 09:12 PM
hi ba dart,

You`re completely right.

I play sims since the comm.c64 and amiga 500/1200.

Since i bought il2/il2 fogotten battles i don`t play
anything else. I read this forum every day and i`m
learning each day something more.

I certenly know much more about the airwar above
russia during WWII.

This game is almost perfectly perhaps after the
patch.

I had bought cfs3 but plays it once. I gave
it away.

Oleg deserves a statue.

rgds
martin van vuuren
rotterdam/holland
(hornetsting)

XyZspineZyX
07-10-2003, 05:44 PM
hornetsting wrote:


- Since i bought il2/il2 fogotten battles i don`t play
- anything else. I read this forum every day and i`m
- learning each day something more.
-
- I certenly know much more about the airwar above
- russia during WWII.
-
- This game is almost perfectly perhaps after the
- patch.

I agree! Very interesting to learn something new! It also makes me question the impact the impending cold war had on western reports about Eastern Front. The US Army questioned Germans about fighting the Russians & I think we accepted many German prejudices against the Russians. Our history books over-simplified the conflict in the East & of course the Stalinist state was a source of little info & much mis-information. All very interesting. Good info just now becoming available.

The game is very good & will be greatly improved by the patch IMO. Oleg & crew are very diligent & I am happy to see attention for the planes, pilots & others who fought in the vast lands of the old Soviet Union.

Also very happy that some people of different nationalities will share their thoughts with those of us who only speak English,er or American /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


"Anytime you have an opportunity to make things better and you don't, then you are wasting your time on this earth." -Roberto Clemente

XyZspineZyX
07-10-2003, 06:39 PM
Well said BA Dart! I've posted the same general sentiments on some of the whiner threads to try to bring back some sanity, but alas, to no avail.

Let's see... before I bought IL2, I had WW2 Fighters, EAW, CFS2, and Crimson Skies all on my hard drive. Within a month I had stopped regularly playing all of these, and only CFS2 (for Pacific War variety) and Crimson Skies (for odd-ball planes and zeppelins) have stayed on my hard drive. After getting FB on the first day of its release, I haven't even thought about playing another combat flight sim.

FB is without any doubt the most ambitious WW2 flight sim ever, in terms of plane variety, graphics, FM, DM, and offline experience. It is definitely not just an add-on and was well worth the $40 USD I paid. Considering all that it has attempted, I would have expected it to have more problems than it does. For most people, it works out of the box, and compared to other graphically intense games, it seems to require surprisingly little computer power to provide an outstanding experience. Most of the whining is from people who IMHO have been spoiled by IL2 and IC Maddox's willingness to do add-ons and patches, and now expect near perfection from everything. I suspect the majority is also from online players who, judging from what I read on this board, are very competitive and picky folks! Every so often I read posts by people who say they can't even get the game to work. I'm sure that happens and I really sympathize there (unlike console games you sometimes run into odd compatibility issues with even the most stable games and seemingly typical computer set-ups). I had to wait for 2 years and a whole new computer to get Crimson Skies to work right. Sometimes, you just have to bite the bullet.

Anyway, if you don't like FB, that's your right. Just quicherbichin and go play CFS or WW2 fighters and leave the rest of us alone.

XyZspineZyX
07-10-2003, 08:03 PM
Just came in here for a breath of fresh air!
totally agree /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

PS- just checked out that AI "doctrine" thread at Simhq- good read (link in posting above).


Message Edited on 07/10/0307:14PM by Cold_Gambler

XyZspineZyX
07-10-2003, 08:54 PM
Until Oleg, Eastern Front was the blank terrain beyond the West European map.



Best Quote, ever...

How many WWII flight sims even mention Soviet aircraft, let alone model them, even when depicting action in 1945? Eastern Germany might as well be the sea, or at a minimum a hazy region with a label that says "Here be dragons."

~ BA_Dart

XyZspineZyX
07-10-2003, 08:56 PM
LOL LEXX! I totally agree, and Il2 is a great game in itself just by dealing with the "here be dragons" land!

XyZspineZyX
07-10-2003, 10:14 PM
Dart you are right on point and have echoed my sentiments exactly..... I dont know how many of you are history nuts but with the purchase of IL2 a whole new area of fascinating history opened up for me. This sim is hands down the best overall, underall, period..flight sim out. Even without the patch it runs rings around any other sim. Those folks who complain about it being so unplayable and what not are just being un reasonable IMO. There are no better FMs on any WW2 planes that I know of and the German planes in this sim are the only ones I could even tolerate to any degree.

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