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View Full Version : Let's face it: The Templars were always right



DangerDrago2015
03-14-2015, 05:18 PM
I realize freedom seems more preferable than world domination, but let me tell you something...

My secondary school irish teacher once said that we shouldn't really get in trouble for leaving our homework at home, however, some of the more lazy and indilligent people in my class would obviously use this as an excuse to not do their homework (same for leaving books at school, etc.).

My point is, there are some that would misuse freedom, ie. to cause chaos, do as they please.
And even at that, freedom is really just an illusion. The French revolution was fought in the name of freedom, but the leaders it put in power, was just as if not more tyrannical than King Louis. Another example is the USA. America was founded on free speech and general freedom and what not, but their government practically has a CCTV camera in ever building. Freedom can never really exist in human culture. Peace can, but only through means some may deem unsavory.

As humans, some of us can act without reason. Because there's probably more good than bad people in the world, the dellusion exists that humanity would make the best of freedom, but most of our leaders are generally power hungry, so a world with no control, if it could even exist, would likely be chaotic. And if you think the modern world is free, and are trying to preserve that society, well then you probably dont know the kind of things happening in the middle east. No one is perfect, we just need to accept it. True peace can really only be achieved through total domination. It's just the truth.

So yes, I for one would join the Templars, for the above reason and because I find their open - combat style more honorable. What are your thoughts on this?

Come to think of it, are the Assassins trying to believe the liberty that already exists in the world, or are they trying to bring more freedom?

Sushiglutton
03-14-2015, 05:54 PM
It's not really a binary choice of either having freedom or not. There are degrees. Just because there's no such thing as a state with full freedom doesn't mean a dictatorship is preferable/necessary. Many of the most peaceful countries on earth have a high degree of freedom for their citizens.

If you take the middle east as an example I don't think the issue is too much freedom and/or adherence to liberal principles.

Shahkulu101
03-14-2015, 05:56 PM
Yeah cause dictatorships work out just fine.

The key is moderation - the magic word for everything. Absolute freedom/control - doesn't matter. Both bad things, no need to take sides. But it's important to remember the Assassin's aren't Anarchists, while the Templar's are totalitarian.

Hans684
03-14-2015, 06:08 PM
Control isn't the Templar goal, peace is and it's have to be archived trough control. Totall control, tyranny, dictatorship and all isn't the how to reach peace since it forced and enguriges uprising against people that abuse power for their own ends. None of it achieves peace, only more pointless wars, how is that order?

EmbodyingSeven5
03-14-2015, 06:10 PM
the Assassin's aren't Anarchists, .

THANK YOU. so many people act as though the assassins want complete anarchy which makes no sense because they have their own creed and follow it strictly. they also replace governments and politicians. not completely destroy them.

SixKeys
03-14-2015, 06:14 PM
Assassins don't advocate for complete freedom. They advocate for freedom with responsibility. They recognize that the world needs leaders, they just want those leaders to act responsibly.

Defalt221
03-14-2015, 06:24 PM
I realize freedom seems more preferable than world domination, but let me tell you something...

My secondary school irish teacher once said that we shouldn't really get in trouble for leaving our homework at home, however, some of the more lazy and indilligent people in my class would obviously use this as an excuse to not do their homework (same for leaving books at school, etc.).

My point is, there are some that would misuse freedom, ie. to cause chaos, do as they please.
And even at that, freedom is really just an illusion. The French revolution was fought in the name of freedom, but the leaders it put in power, was just as if not more tyrannical than King Louis. Another example is the USA.Freedom can never really exist in human culture. Peace can, but only through means some may deem unsavory.

As humans, some of us can act without reason. Because there's probably more good than bad people in the world, the dellusion exists that humanity would make the best of freedom, but most of our leaders are generally power hungry, so a world with no control, if it could even exist, would likely be chaotic. And if you think the modern world is free, and are trying to preserve that society, well then you probably dont know the kind of things happening in the middle east. No one is perfect, we just need to accept it. True peace can really only be achieved through total domination. It's just the truth.

So yes, I for one would join the Templars, for the above reason and because I find their open - combat style more honorable. What are your thoughts on this?

By freedom they (Assassins) don't mean that the people should be free to break any social and political law that protects human rights. But they mean that the people should be free from "mental domination". Templars oppress and mock the city laws and the peaceful rules of governments and especially the religious beliefs because they believe that all these rules and teachings make humans ignorant and that humans can never proceed to a peaceful world. They think they should rather enslave the humans and FORCE peace to them by making them obey what they think is right. That's why Hakim (A Templar from AC1) tried to burn all the religious and social books that people read and Silvia (i think that was his name from AC2) took control of all human bbeings in Florence and rebuild the world.. Imagine if someone feeds you an illusion where you're living in a dream world enjoying your time in heaven while in reality you're just a mind slave to Templars in a broken world seeing the illusion of freedom. That's why the assassins believe "Nothing is true and everything is permitted." Altair said to Al Mualim that those who transcend the illusion of freedom and open their eyes see the truth and finds peace in themselves.

The thing is Templars believe that humans can never be intelligent and they are always ignorant. That god doesn't exist and they are the ones who should rule people. They believe that hope for a better future is foolishness. Look at Haytham and Connor's final conversations when they fight each other and you'll see what assassins believe by freedom.



Come to think of it, are the Assassins trying to believe the liberty that already exists in the world, or are they trying to bring more freedom?
The Assassins are trying to believe the liberty that already exists in the world. No they AREN'T trying to bring MORE freedom. Else they'd try to kill all rulers and governments over the world and make humans roam freely like animals.
In short,Templars are trying to destroy the freedom that exists normally. The assassins are trying to stop that and let the world be as it is. That's why you hear the templars always talking about a 'Unified NEW WORLD'. That's why you see that the Templars going after the world's people and the assassins kill the Templars to prevent that.


America was founded on free speech and general freedom and what not, but their government practically has a CCTV camera in ever building.
Yes the CCTV cameras are there but those aren't doing anything more than watching the people do in their lives and try to stop crime whenever it happens. Those CCTV cameras are there to see if people are breaking any law and doing evil. If they do that the CCTV will record that and the people will be judged for their actions. But the cameras aren't screaming out loud,"STOP! Don't do that". So,no the CCTV aren't stopping the freedom but only invading privacy to see what people do when they have freedom.

Farlander1991
03-14-2015, 06:28 PM
It's been long since I've studied and researched this area, so I may not remember all the details, but anarchism as a political philosophy isn't about absolute freedom or lack of rules, but about willful cooperation. (Of course, with ****tons of branches in anarchism and the fact that a lot of people misinterpret the ideology akin to Altair misinterpreting the Creed, it's not what we associate anarchism with). So Assassins are anarchists, because they want everybody to think for themselves, and live in peace and cooperation.

Hans684
03-14-2015, 06:28 PM
The war between the order and their goals can easly be confused as freedom vs control. Freedom isn't the assassin goal and control isn't the Templar goal. It's how they want to reach peace.

VestigialLlama4
03-14-2015, 08:53 PM
I realize freedom seems more preferable than world domination, but let me tell you something...

My secondary school irish teacher once said that we shouldn't really get in trouble for leaving our homework at home, however, some of the more lazy and indilligent people in my class would obviously use this as an excuse to not do their homework (same for leaving books at school, etc.).

My point is, there are some that would misuse freedom, ie. to cause chaos, do as they please.

That analogy strikes me as strained. Homework is more a matter of how students respons to instruction and syllabus and training than any metaphor for freedom and chaos.


And even at that, freedom is really just an illusion. The French revolution was fought in the name of freedom, but the leaders it put in power, was just as if not more tyrannical than King Louis.

Someone has been playing an appallingly nasty piece of s--- right-wing propaganda called UNITY. The Real French Revolution introduced universal male suffrage, gave rights to Protestants, Jews and also legalized homosexuality. During the Reign of Terror, they abolished slavery for the first time, this was all considered "extreme" at the time but contemporary notions of human rights and what we understand of democracy was first practised in the French Revolution.


So yes, I for one would join the Templars, for the above reason and because I find their open - combat style more honorable. What are your thoughts on this?

The problem is that the Templars as we see them in the game is very different from the Templars the fans think of, that is the Platonic Conception of Templars dedicated to "the greater good". The Templars we see in the game are a pack of psychos and scumbags. If left to the Templars in the AC world, the Renaissance wouldn't have happened, America would not become a republic or win its war, kill Copernicus before he makes his important theories and of course let the 2012 catastrophe we see. So given the evidence of what we see in the game, I hardly think the Templars represent any sane alternative.

cawatrooper9
03-15-2015, 04:53 AM
If there's any message that the series is trying to convey, I'd think that it's rather obvious that the philosophies of the Templars and the Assassins both contain a mixture of some truth and some BS. The same goes for the organizations themselves, who have both been shown to be susceptible to corruption.

A Templar dominated world would not be perfect. Neither would an Assassin one. As tragic as it is, their war actually brings balance to the world.