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Sauhatz
06-21-2004, 05:50 AM
Will there be deep water in Pacific Fighters or the same fake water as in IL2 / FB / AEP ?

I would love to see diving submarines, sinking ships and planes...please...

The water in IL2 / FB / AEP sucks. Please make a better job in Pacific Fighters.

( And if someone could answer my question it would be very nice ! )

P.S: Sorry if this has been asked before, I'm in a hurry and don't have the time to search the forum...

P.P.S. O.K. Ships do already sink in IL2-FB-AEP, sorry.

[This message was edited by Sauhatz on Fri June 25 2004 at 02:56 PM.]

Sauhatz
06-21-2004, 05:50 AM
Will there be deep water in Pacific Fighters or the same fake water as in IL2 / FB / AEP ?

I would love to see diving submarines, sinking ships and planes...please...

The water in IL2 / FB / AEP sucks. Please make a better job in Pacific Fighters.

( And if someone could answer my question it would be very nice ! )

P.S: Sorry if this has been asked before, I'm in a hurry and don't have the time to search the forum...

P.P.S. O.K. Ships do already sink in IL2-FB-AEP, sorry.

[This message was edited by Sauhatz on Fri June 25 2004 at 02:56 PM.]

Flygflottilj16_Sulan
06-21-2004, 07:21 AM
I don´t understand your question, Ive seen ships sink and planes too.
No submarines diving tho http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif, (cant be done)......


What do you mean? (not that I´d have an answer)

Sauhatz
06-21-2004, 09:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Decent-:
I don´t understand your question, Ive seen ships sink and planes too.
No submarines diving tho http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif, (cant be done)......


What do you mean? (not that I´d have an answer)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No matter if I crashland in a pond, a stream or in the middle of the ocean, my plane won't sink deeper than this:

http://www.nekkekamistormcrow.de/images/scheisswasser1.bmp

This happens to every aircraft I see crashlanding on water in IL2-FB-AEP. So I guess the water just isn't deep enough, it's just an illusion.
There's also this "Jesus is back" issue, every time the pilot ejects the cockpit he makes a short sprint on the water surface and jumps, instead of trying to swim.
And another thing, when your aircraft is burning and you crash into water, the fire grows bigger and bigger instead of going out.
Can't be that hard to change these issues... ?

Considering the submarines, what use is a submarine if it cannot dive ? What pleasure do you have when sinking a submarine that cannot escape ? Right, none.
IL2 is no Silent Hunter, but it cannot be impossible to program it in a way that the player sees a submarine, goes for it, misses it, and the submarine dives away...or what ?

[This message was edited by Sauhatz on Mon June 21 2004 at 08:40 AM.]

Chuck_Older
06-21-2004, 10:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sauhatz:


Considering the submarines, what use is a submarine if it cannot dive ? What pleasure do you have when sinking a submarine that cannot escape ? Right, none.
IL2 is no Silent Hunter, but it cannot be impossible to program it in a way that the player sees a submarine, goes for it, misses it, and the submarine dives away...or what ?

[This message was edited by Sauhatz on Mon June 21 2004 at 08:40 AM.]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In FB, sinking a submarine that "cannot get away" is actually not easy. The defensive fire that a sub in FB puts out is actually many times more accurate than the real thing, did you know that at one point Donitz required that subs be escorted in convoys so as to mass defensive fire and make it effective? A sub is a lousy AAA platform.

It may be difficult to make a sub submerge in FB. As you yourself point out, this isn't SIlent Hunter http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

*****************************
The hillsides ring with, "Free the People",
Or can I hear the echoes from the days of '39?
~ Clash

Sauhatz
06-21-2004, 11:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>In FB, sinking a submarine that "cannot get away" is actually not easy. The defensive fire that a sub in FB puts out is actually many times more accurate than the real thing, did you know that at one point Donitz required that subs be escorted in convoys so as to mass defensive fire and make it effective? A sub is a lousy AAA platform.

It may be difficult to make a sub submerge in FB. As you yourself point out, this isn't SIlent Hunter. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It may be difficult, it may be hardcore hard, but I pray they find a way to make it happen...

"Denn die Hoffnung stirbt zuletzt..."
("'cause hope is the last thing that dies...")

Greetings, Sven

P.S. The other points might be a lot easier to fix..

* deeper water would do the trick to allow water-crashlanded aircraft to sink,

* a few extra animations for a swimmer instead of a runner,

* a code to make a difference between fire on land / fire in water.

FI.Spitsfire
06-22-2004, 07:00 AM
Why not just use submerged subs?
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://www.endlager.net/fis/pix/banners/fis_banner_10.gif

McCallaway
06-22-2004, 07:24 AM
Well, actually I think the water has no depth at all, and that a plane landing on water is allowed to go through it a bit.

I always saw the planes in water not touching the bottom be rather floating a bit. Suits me well. The flames don't seem to be unrealistic since burning fuel will burn wether it is on water or not. As for the pilot, I could care less...

To sum it up, it would be cool eye candy to have what you proposed indeed, but I'd rather have so many way more important things before.

On the subs though, you've got a point. A sub trying to escape an air attack by diving would be a worthy addition. As well, it would be neat if ships sunk near the coast rested on the bottom with their structures out of the water, or if damaged ships tried to get on the coast before sinking.

Woodrow79
06-23-2004, 01:18 AM
I also think this would be a very good addition to the game. Attacking a sub trying to submerge, and seeing into the water say to a depth of 30ft. It appears this is something beyond current 3d pc gaming and might have to wait another 2 years or so, but along the spectrum of bringing reality to simulation, modeling depth and transparency in water has to be on the horizon. By the way, SH3 is due out in the fall I think, for anyone who also is a sub enthusiast. I am.


VF15_Hicks

Ruy Horta
06-23-2004, 01:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Woodrow79:
I also think this would be a very good addition to the game. Attacking a sub trying to submerge, and seeing into the water say to a depth of 30ft. It appears this is something beyond current 3d pc gaming and might have to wait another 2 years or so<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why do people continue to think up excuses for their favorite developer?

Just try to come up with a feasible alternative...

To make a Submarine submerge would be easy enough, not much more difficult than coding a flying boat's landing sequence. And here in lies the answer as well.

Include a strong wake animation while diving.

This way you attack the wake and calculate the approximate position of the submarine.

Apart from the dive sequence its no new tech for FB.

You'll have to create suitable bomb models tho, model their underwater (damage) effect to some extend that's good enough for rough ASW, as in limited but better than subs that stay on the surface regardless of what happens.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif
Ruy Horta

Woodrow79
06-23-2004, 02:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Why do people continue to think up excuses for their favorite developer?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A better question would be, why do people read their own negative biases into others conversations?

Relax Horta. People just having a conversation here. You feel free to leave your opinion, allow others to do the same without adding a negative. Yes?

If you have an easy answer to what is being discussed, by all means code it and send it to 1C so we can see it in the game. I'm behind you brother!

VF15_Hicks

Ruy Horta
06-23-2004, 02:52 PM
I am not a programmer, so for me it is not easy, but I know that it would be relatively easy to use the wake effect as a means of target acquirement.

Nothing to do with negative bias, actually I am providing a positive (potential) solution to the issue...instead of discussing the limitations of today's hardware.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif
Ruy Horta

Sauhatz
06-23-2004, 05:00 PM
A mighty Bump!for Ruy Horta!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> You'll have to create suitable bomb models tho, model their underwater (damage) effect to some extend that's good enough for rough ASW, as in limited but better than subs that stay on the surface regardless of what happens. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yup, right now the effect of bombs detonating in water is quite strange...I've been practicing submarine hunting with a Me-110 G in the last days in my free time.

I was quite surprised that two SC-500 Sprengbomben detonating one or two meters from a surfaced submarine don't cause any damage to the sub. On the other hand, if you fly too low, for example at a height of 90m, your aircraft is blown to pieces by the detonation...http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Only direct hits destroy the target...strange stuff...The development team should take a look at this issue, many Pacific Fighters scenarios will include ships...

[This message was edited by Sauhatz on Thu June 24 2004 at 03:28 PM.]

eobet
06-24-2004, 08:04 AM
Well, water in the locations of the old Sturmovik titles wasn't that clear, so you really didn't need to map out the sea floor (I bet it was an optimization as well).

However, a lot of islands in the Pacific ocean are coral islands, aren't they? And thus surrounded by very shallow water, which is also very clear, and thus the bottom should be visible.

I don't think that they can use the flat plane of water everywhere anymore, and here's another reason:

What about carrier landings in bad weather? I've seen the ocean getting pretty stirred up in documentaries, and it would be very nice to have ships move up and down in it, and also to be able to see the waves in full 3D!

I am going to be very disappointed if Pacific Fighters lack this.

Sauhatz
06-24-2004, 04:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by McCallaway:
...
As for the pilot, I could care less...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wouldn't it be nice if the pilots / crews had a chance of surviving a bail-out over water / escape from a sinking aircraft ? Right now this means instant death, with no chance of survival at all ... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif

A few more words about the accuracy of sub anti-aircraft fire in IL2-FB: Just lousy. I've been "training" to bomb a sub for a few days now ( the russian type with the two 45mm cannons ), and in more than thirty attacks my aircraft didn't suffer any hits from the sub.

I'm still trying to take a good screenshot of the effect of two SC-500 bombs detonating two meters near a sub (=zero damage to the sub)...

Sauhatz
06-25-2004, 01:22 PM
O.K., how about this:
http://www.nekkekamistormcrow.de/images/U-boot3.bmp

The sub takes no damage at all by the nearby detonations. Two SC-500 bombs = 2x270kg explosives. I'm no expert, but I guess in reality the sub would be heavily damaged by such a nearby pressure blast.

What do you think about this ?

VW-IceFire
06-25-2004, 02:32 PM
Happens with ships too. Sort of annoying that the proximity blast of a powerful bomb doesn't count towards anything at all.

This may have been worked on for PF.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

Sauhatz
06-25-2004, 03:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> This may have been worked on for PF. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yea, I hope so!

Just another idea that came to my mind:

How about an oil carpet or something like that to mark the grave of a ship ? In IL2-FB-AEP ships just sink and that's it. There's not a single visible sign for a sunken ship.
I'm not asking for survivors (http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-172Survivors.jpg) struggling for their lives / rescue boats / floating wreck parts...just a simple oil carpet or a burning oil carpet for sunken tankers...please ? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif

Edit: Example:

THE TELL-TALE PATCH OF OIL THAT SHOWS A U. BOAT HAS MADE THAT FINAL DIVE AFTER FATAL DEPTH CHARGING. (http://www.cyber-heritage.co.uk/cutaway/pic17.jpg)

[This message was edited by Sauhatz on Fri June 25 2004 at 02:54 PM.]

Ruy Horta
06-27-2004, 12:43 AM
Would be nice to have (both by effect and placed) debries and like you said...oil stain.

Which inspires the followup idea...oil trail for damaged ships.

If PF were able to contain S.A.R., it would be great to have some sort of human survivor model too, although not in the hundreds of course since it would kill the fps.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif
Ruy Horta