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View Full Version : Request for future add-on



Triple_AA
09-02-2004, 12:03 PM
Oleg, please consider an add-on, (One that I would gladly purchase) for the off liner players.

As you know, many of us don't play "on-line," only off-line. The reasons may vary, but it's clear this is the case.

What I'm suggesting is an add-on along the lines of Pacific fighters, but aimed solely at improving the "ai" game play.

Smarter ai, more maneuvers, more control of the ai by the user etc. would be great.

As an example, I'd like to be second in a command of a flight that loses it's leader, and then have the option to control the remainder of the flight. Something that can't be done at the present time.

It would also be nice to have the ai in your flight call out a bandit and stay in formation until orders from the user are given. Currently they just fly away, and at times you don't even know they're gone! All you can do is call them back, a command that isn't always obeyed.

One other thing that would be nice would be the ai engaged in combat using a wider variety of maneuvers to escape a pursuer. They're pretty predictable now.

There are dozens of other examples that have been brought up over the past few years, and I'm sure you've heard them all and have a few of your own.

The resources that would have to be committed as well as whether or not there would be enough interest would be something you'd have to consider. I know you currently have a lot on your plate. Perhaps the idea could be used on one of your future endeavors.


I realize that FB has been geared more towards on-line play, I assume that's because adding in all kinds of complicated ai code would make for a very large a sim. But if the the above mentioned "enhanced ai package" were the subject of a new add-on, I'd sure buy it. I'm sure others would too and we'd all enjoy much more challenging off-line play.

Just a thought. Thanks.

Forgotten Battles Chatter Packs
Chatter Files (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/flightsims/oberstguncam/SoundFiles/)

Triple_AA
09-02-2004, 12:03 PM
Oleg, please consider an add-on, (One that I would gladly purchase) for the off liner players.

As you know, many of us don't play "on-line," only off-line. The reasons may vary, but it's clear this is the case.

What I'm suggesting is an add-on along the lines of Pacific fighters, but aimed solely at improving the "ai" game play.

Smarter ai, more maneuvers, more control of the ai by the user etc. would be great.

As an example, I'd like to be second in a command of a flight that loses it's leader, and then have the option to control the remainder of the flight. Something that can't be done at the present time.

It would also be nice to have the ai in your flight call out a bandit and stay in formation until orders from the user are given. Currently they just fly away, and at times you don't even know they're gone! All you can do is call them back, a command that isn't always obeyed.

One other thing that would be nice would be the ai engaged in combat using a wider variety of maneuvers to escape a pursuer. They're pretty predictable now.

There are dozens of other examples that have been brought up over the past few years, and I'm sure you've heard them all and have a few of your own.

The resources that would have to be committed as well as whether or not there would be enough interest would be something you'd have to consider. I know you currently have a lot on your plate. Perhaps the idea could be used on one of your future endeavors.


I realize that FB has been geared more towards on-line play, I assume that's because adding in all kinds of complicated ai code would make for a very large a sim. But if the the above mentioned "enhanced ai package" were the subject of a new add-on, I'd sure buy it. I'm sure others would too and we'd all enjoy much more challenging off-line play.

Just a thought. Thanks.

Forgotten Battles Chatter Packs
Chatter Files (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/flightsims/oberstguncam/SoundFiles/)

XyZspineZyX
09-02-2004, 02:36 PM
Heh, MUCH easier said than done.

AI is an incredibly tricky beast, and the IL-2/FB/AEP AI does well, all things considered.

But, even for all that, there are times when you can readily see the "seams" of the AI.

For every time you encounter an AI plane and find you couldn't tell it wasn't human, you encounter times when the AI "cheats" to perform other functions, like unattainable climb rates to meet predetermined waypoint schedules, impossible turns to stay with human wingmen, and the ever present "overaccurate" AI gunners.

But, to be fair to the dev team, nobody has yet to replicate faithfully human behavior, even on huge supercomputers. Let alone in a $40 boxed game.

Triple_AA
09-02-2004, 03:24 PM
So true Stiglr. But wouldn't a "Pay for add-on" for Enhanced AI, (Specificaly for "off-liners") that solves things like "ai cloud sonar" etc. be a welcome thing?

Of course you right when you say that we couldn't ever get 100% realism, but wouldn't you take 45% over 25%? I'd even settle for 35% or 40%!That would be a major improvement!

Would that be acheivable with a specfic "enhance the ai" add-on? For that matter, could such an add-on include an on-off switch in case the off-liner wanted to try "on-line play?

Only Oleg and other programmers could say. I'd sure like to see them try.

Forgotten Battles Chatter Packs
Chatter Files (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/flightsims/oberstguncam/SoundFiles/)

XyZspineZyX
09-02-2004, 03:44 PM
I guess what I'm saying is, there is not a linear relationship between "time put in" and "realistic results" when it comes to AI.

I'm wondering if it's even POSSIBLE for the dev team to dramatically improve upon the AI.

Frankly, they have enough to do with the flight and damage models to get THEM to be accurate enough for the human players.

LEXX_Luthor
09-02-2004, 07:20 PM
Stiglr:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I'm wondering if it's even POSSIBLE for the dev team to dramatically improve upon the AI.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes! I was told a Miro "Jamm0r" Torrielli crafted for the Rowan BoB flight sim some AI that could not see through clouds. If true, I don't know if this was original Rowan programming or later Modd. Anybody know of any other flight sim that had AI that could not see through clouds?


Developers have to know that flight simmers are Desperate for dramatically improved AI. Its possible they don't even know, bizzare as it may sound. And here we must watch our language, as "improved AI" can something simple like AI not seeing very well at night or AI being blinded by the sun--the 1994 Flanker 1.0 jetsim had heat seeking missiles that could be distracted by the sun. Such AI environmental awareness should be as possible today as it was in 1994 on an old DOS game made for 486 cpu.


When I was a little squish, I built 1/48 scale models of Zero, Wildcat, and Devastator. These and reading about the Pacific war with the pictures in books gave my young childish mind an association of huge bulging towers of puff with Zero, Wildcat, and Devastator too -- but mainly the fighters. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif



Request for BoB and Beyond.... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif

http://www.chitambo.com/clouds/cloudsimages/low/towercu_saopaulo_mar02.jpg
~ http://www.chitambo.com/clouds/cloudshtml/calvus.html#Anchorcal1



Astonishing wide view that P~51 and Fw~190 pilots saw outside their cockpits while looking for each other's contrails...

~~~&gt; http://vortex.plymouth.edu/psc_cb_schmitz.jpg



Cumulus cloud gift mugs from http://www.giftmugs.com/ http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://www.abitmark.com/Giftmugs-Images/Backgrounds/BG101-Cumulus-Clouds-up-down.jpg
~ http://www.giftmugs.com/sampler/backgrounds/Cumulus-Clouds-Sky.htm



__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack ( AEP )

"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

p1ngu666
09-02-2004, 11:50 PM
your trollin for a mug luthor ? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif


http://premium.uploadit.org/pingu666/luthercloud1.jpg

oleg musnt forget the overcast for BOB

http://premium.uploadit.org/pingu666/overcast.jpg

http://premium.uploadit.org/pingu666/sunset2.jpg

pictures are from my garden http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif taken by myself http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg
&lt;123_GWood_JG123&gt; NO SPAM!
&lt;badsight&gt;pingu - the Anitchrist of Combat Flight Simmers

LEXX_Luthor
09-03-2004, 12:01 AM
NOOOO

When they see that, they will ask for flowers across the land in BoB.

On the LOMAC forum some Noob asked for grass waving in the wind. Told him to get Lawnmower Sim.

That was back when SkyChimp had a lawnmower sig (why I don't know), and that made me think of simming lawnmowers.

__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack ( AEP )

"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

p1ngu666
09-03-2004, 12:46 AM
http://premium.uploadit.org/pingu666/sadflower.jpg
the flower is http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

id thought u would want flower because u will see them close up when u do this...
http://premium.uploadit.org/pingu666/acoolimageforluthor.jpg

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg
&lt;123_GWood_JG123&gt; NO SPAM!
&lt;badsight&gt;my name is tracy and pingu is the Anitchrist of Combat Flight Simmers

LEXX_Luthor
09-03-2004, 12:50 AM
STOP MUGGING THE THREAD

__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack ( AEP )

"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

p1ngu666
09-03-2004, 01:05 AM
hehe indeed http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
ill take that as ive won response http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
like when a american has run out of illentigence and decides to resort to violence, which is funny when its in HL http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif.

btw, do u like that biplane pic? i took it for u http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg
&lt;123_GWood_JG123&gt; NO SPAM!
&lt;badsight&gt;my name is tracy and pingu is the Anitchrist of Combat Flight Simmers

p1ngu666
09-03-2004, 01:08 AM
with clever selective quoting like this, i too can be a newspaper reporter! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg
&lt;123_GWood_JG123&gt;NO SPAM!
&lt;badsight&gt;my name is tracy and pingu is the Anitchrist of Combat Flight Simmers
&lt;lexx_luthor&gt;flowers across the land in BoB