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Bansai Potato
08-05-2004, 10:23 AM
What will happen to an aircraft after a succesfull landing? (in a coop mission for example)

Will the aircraft just remain where the pilot stopped it, will it disappear completely leaving the deck clear for the next guy, or by far the best option, after the pilot has come to a succesful halt, will some sort of automated procedure kick in that represents the ground crew shuffling all of the aircraft to the far end of the deck, and putting up the safety wires to protect them from landing aircraft? this indeed would be very cool and could make for some interesting landings for the last guy knowing that your entire squadron is sat on the other end of the deck praying that you dont screw up.

Also will pilots be able to step out of their aircraft once shut down, rather than stupidly jettisoning their canopy twenty feet into the air then bravely diving teeth first into the deck, before takeing a running dive overboard (based on current pilot modelling on the ground)

http://homepage.hispeed.ch/Ede_EAF92/EAF/24890632.92EastIndiaSquadronpersonnel.jpg

Bansai Potato
08-05-2004, 10:23 AM
What will happen to an aircraft after a succesfull landing? (in a coop mission for example)

Will the aircraft just remain where the pilot stopped it, will it disappear completely leaving the deck clear for the next guy, or by far the best option, after the pilot has come to a succesful halt, will some sort of automated procedure kick in that represents the ground crew shuffling all of the aircraft to the far end of the deck, and putting up the safety wires to protect them from landing aircraft? this indeed would be very cool and could make for some interesting landings for the last guy knowing that your entire squadron is sat on the other end of the deck praying that you dont screw up.

Also will pilots be able to step out of their aircraft once shut down, rather than stupidly jettisoning their canopy twenty feet into the air then bravely diving teeth first into the deck, before takeing a running dive overboard (based on current pilot modelling on the ground)

http://homepage.hispeed.ch/Ede_EAF92/EAF/24890632.92EastIndiaSquadronpersonnel.jpg

Fennec_P
08-05-2004, 11:53 AM
Your plane will be pushed over the side.

Rhavin_
08-05-2004, 12:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fennec_P:
Your plane will be pushed over the side.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

While mine sits serenely upon the deck, a crowd gathered about it awestruck at my kill tally. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

EmbarkChief
08-05-2004, 12:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rhavin_:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fennec_P:
Your plane will be pushed over the side.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

While mine sits serenely upon the deck, a crowd gathered about it awestruck at my kill tally. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

....then pused it over the side....

LeadSpitter_
08-05-2004, 03:14 PM
lol fennec

http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v43/leadspitter/LSIG1.gif

BSS_Vidar
08-05-2004, 03:41 PM
You'll have to taxi out of the wires up to the bow and park it.
Kinda like this:

http://www.blacksheep214.com/screenshots/cfs2/Butch%20on%20Final.jpg

We just need to get these developer guys to realized WE NEED DIFFERENTIAL TOE BRAKING! For precission taxiing in a flight deck environment. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

BSS_Vidar

Latico
08-05-2004, 04:47 PM
Vidar,

Currently you can hold the brake (B key) and throttle up while holding the rudder to one side and you plane will pivot on one wheel, as if you were holding an independant brake.

IV_JG51_Razor
08-05-2004, 07:16 PM
"You'll have to taxi out of the wires up to the bow and park it.
Kinda like this:"

http://www.blacksheep214.com/screenshots/cfs2/Butch%20on%20Final.jpg

It looks like Butch is in for a big suprise! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif

Razor
IV/JG51 11/12 Staffelkapitan
www.jg51.net (http://www.jg51.net)
Forgotten Skies Online War
http://www.forgottenskies.com/ForgottenWars/default.aspx
"Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from poor judgement"

BSS_Vidar
08-05-2004, 08:36 PM
Latico:
Not precise enough for carrier deck ops M8. How do you slow the swing side without loosing the pivot point??? U can't with this braking system. Space is not a luxury. U have to be able to hold that pivot point and slow the swing side indiviually or the plane rolls out of position.

Razor:
Butch made that pass just fine. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Our record in CFS2 was 12 aircraft on deck. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
If you look at Butches pass closely, you'll see he's in the arched approach just about to roll wings level for touchdown. The Blacksheep perform actual carrier ops patterns like real pro's.

We have new members being trained for carrier ops in FB. The standing order is to perform a carrier brake over the field after each sortie. We'll be ready! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/sonar.gif

BSS_Vidar

Robert Edwards
08-05-2004, 10:54 PM
In real carrier deck ops the planes were parked faceing into the wind at the foward end of the deck.Once all ac had landed then the last plane to land was pushed to the starboard aft end of the deck and the other ac followed untill all the ac were respoted aft. The problem here is you can`t back up the ac that land.

Bobhegf

Robert Edwards
08-05-2004, 10:56 PM
What does the carrier brake look like?

Bobhegf

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2004, 11:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BSS_Vidar:
You'll have to taxi out of the wires up to the bow and park it.
Kinda like this:

http://www.blacksheep214.com/screenshots/cfs2/Butch%20on%20Final.jpg

We just need to get these developer guys to realized WE NEED DIFFERENTIAL TOE BRAKING! For precission taxiing in a flight deck environment. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

BSS_Vidar<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And not so touchy brakes at that.


Oh, oh boys, looks like we'd better get Betty ready

Fliger747
08-05-2004, 11:51 PM
Break?

IV_JG51_Razor
08-06-2004, 12:35 AM
"Razor:
Butch made that pass just fine. Our record in CFS2 was 12 aircraft on deck.
If you look at Butches pass closely, you'll see he's in the arched approach just about to roll wings level for touchdown. The Blacksheep perform actual carrier ops patterns like real pro's.

We have new members being trained for carrier ops in FB. The standing order is to perform a carrier brake over the field after each sortie. We'll be ready!"

BSS_Vidar

Well, if you say so Mr Vidar, but it sure looks to me like the LSO would have been waving his paddles like mad with a plane in the groove like that WITH NO LANDING GEAR, FLAPS, OR HOOK DOWN!!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

EDIT: I realize that the limitations of the sim might "distort" reality when it comes to screen shots. It's just that he looks like he's really about to make a big splash on deck! LOL!

Razor
IV/JG51 11/12 Staffelkapitan
www.jg51.net (http://www.jg51.net)
Forgotten Skies Online War
http://www.forgottenskies.com/ForgottenWars/default.aspx
"Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from poor judgement"

BSS_Vidar
08-06-2004, 12:52 AM
Razor:
It's actually not distorted at all. That's what it's suppose to look like from the deck. Depth percetion in CFS2 sux, and doesn't show flaps deployed on other aircraft. But the hook is visible in close formation. Even the landing gear disappear at a certain distance.

Yo Bob:
Read through this...

http://www.blacksheep214.com/cq/cq.htm

This will explain the carrier brake for you. It even has some screen shots included to show the different positions in the carrier brake pattern. When we get PF, we'll make a Track of a four-plane formation coming in for the carrier brake so everyone can see how it's done.

S!

BSS_Vidar

Bansai Potato
08-06-2004, 01:31 AM
Any officials got any ideas on this subject

http://homepage.hispeed.ch/Ede_EAF92/EAF/24890632.92EastIndiaSquadronpersonnel.jpg

wickedpenguin
08-06-2004, 03:54 PM
I just finished the book "The Jolly Rogers", about one of the first (if not the first) Corsair squadrons to see action in the PTO - VF-17. The author describes carrier operations in good detail, including the patterns used for both arriving and departing aircraft.

According to him, his squadron always used carrier style approaches and landing, even when stationed on land bases. There was a point where they had been stationed ashore for 2 months and then reassigned to the carrier USS Bunker Hill. After 2 months of shore duty, all forty pilots made the carrier trap on the first try.

I guess those in the BlackSheep214 sqauadron who've been practicing their carrier approaches will be nice and prepped for PF.

Pacific Fighters is definitely going to throw many PC pilots for a loop. Usually, in online servers, people just take off and land every which way, careening across forests and down hills. With the nature of carrier ops, people will now be forced to learn proper patterns, procedures, patience, and be willing to swallow their pride and go around instead of killing themselves.

Being a testosterone-packing adrenaline-drinking fighter jock is going to get you nowhere if you kill yourself because you're too impatient to wait for your turn...

"Fear is the mindkiller"
- Dune
----------------------------------
Wicked Penguin Corporation
Web - Flash - Multimedia - DVD Authoring

BSS_Vidar
08-07-2004, 03:42 AM
That's right.
Even when shore based, the Carrier Brake was used to separate a formation. But it was slightly modified for shore base ops. The shore-based brake utilized was called the "Fan Break". The difference in the two is the carrier brake uses time/coordinated aggressive turns to the downwind.
For instance, if the landing pattern was clear of traffic over the carrier. The lead would bring the formation in on the ships heading then brake to the down wind at the bow of the carrier. Each member of the formation would brake in 10 second intervals afterwards all while maintaining the ships heading (Final Bearing) upwind. Another rule of thumb for developing a (Spacing) in a Carrier Brake is to brake to downwind wind when your interval (The guy ahead of you in formation or the pattern) achieves a 45 deg. behind your left wingtip. This gives ample separation to get into the wires, taxi out, and clear the landing area while the next guy is rolling in on final. Touchdown for each aircraft is around a 30-40 second interval.

Now the Fan-Brake over a land base is a bit different. A flight of 4 would enter over the field in right-echelon. The lead would call the brake and all four turn to the downwind together. Separation of the formation takes place by timing power settings to idle from one aircraft to the next. The last plane (dash 4) goes to idle immediately. Dash 3 idles 10 seconds later, Dash 2 the next 10 seconds, then the lead is the last to go to idle in the down-wind. The whole formation from the ground appears to spead out in the brake like a.... You guessed it, a "FAN". Keep in mind the planes all dirty-up (deploy flaps and gear) as V speeds allow. This insures nobody closes the gap, or interval distance. The Fan Brake has the dispersion of the formation still quite close in trail to each other, so it is standard to assign the even dashes, i.e. Dash 1(Lead), and Dash 3 one side of the runway from center line, and the even dashes, (Dashes 2, and 4) to the other side of the runway. In real life ops, the odd dashes would land on the downwind side of the runway which has any cross-wind component. This prevents the even dashes from flying through their vorticies.

Since their is no wind in the game, you can assign either/or.

The whole big trick to all this is knowing how to fly GOOD DICIPLINED formation first.

S!

BSS_Vidar

Tully__
08-08-2004, 03:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BSS_Vidar:
Latico:
Not precise enough for carrier deck ops M8. How do you slow the swing side without loosing the pivot point??? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ease up on the rudder. That adds brakes to the swing side without releasing any on the pivot side. Only if you go past rudder centre will you lose brakes on the pivot side.

Edit: Download a demo track (http://members.optusnet.com.au/tully_78th/deckstack.ntrk)

=================================================


http://members.optusnet.com.au/tully_78th/sig.jpg

Tully's X-45 profile (SST drivers) (http://members.optusnet.com.au/tully_78th/fb.zip)

Salut
Tully

[This message was edited by Tully__ on Sun August 08 2004 at 02:32 AM.]

h009291
08-08-2004, 09:55 AM
Guaranteed --&gt;

There will be more carrier deaths and crashes than that to the enemy :P

http://www.medals.org.uk/united-kingdom/images/uk654.jpg

BSS_CUDA
08-08-2004, 01:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Robert Edwards:
What does the carrier brake look like?

Bobhegf<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

SHEESH its the pedal on the left dont you know anything??????????

*****************************
BSS_CUDA
Co-Founder of my family
Black Sheep Executive Officer
USN retired

http://img42.photobucket.com/albums/v129/CUDA97045/CUDA_.jpg
blacksheep214.com (http://blacksheep214.com)
That was some of the best flying I've seen yet! right up to the part where you got killed.
you NEVER NEVER leave your wingman.

Jester : TopGun

Robert Edwards
08-08-2004, 06:36 PM
Yes I do know which one it is,what I should have said was where do you make the brake.What I am trying to find out is what the carrier landing pattern looked like that the Navy used during WWII along with speeds and alt.BSS_CUDA, comments like that don`t help much when someone is trying to get some info.Besides how much real flying time do have in small ac.

Bobhegf

BSS_Vidar
08-08-2004, 07:23 PM
Don't mind him Rob... He's OLD. ;-)

Take a look at the Blacksheep Carrier Ops/ Formation Guide. The standard Case-1 recovery (VFR Ops) used today is the landing pattern used back then.
To answere your question "When to brake?" That all depends on the pattern's traffic. If no one in in the pattern, you brake at the bow. If someone is in the down-wind, you brake when that plane is 45 degrees behind your left wing tip. If someone has beaten you to the pattern and is still up-wind in front of you, you wait till he brakes to down-wind and follow the same rule for a plane established down-wind.
This sets up what is called intervals. These rules of thumb generate the proper traffic separation to allow 30 to 40 seconds between aircraft in the wires, and enough time for them to raise the hook and taxi out of the landing area.

This is all a big timing/coordination effort between all aircraft. If you don't have good dicipline for generating good intervals in the pattern, you'll get a nasty gaggle in the pattern. Wave-offs will be called and people will be crawling up each others elevators.

We will be holding training sessions for carrier ops in our PURE PF server for anyone who wishes to learn how to do it right.
Just be familiar with the Blacksheep CQ/Form Guide and have Teamspeak.

S!

BSS_Vidar

BSS_CUDA
08-15-2004, 07:10 AM
first off no insult intended I was just being a smartass. its a spelling thing with me.

definiton of BRAKE
Function: noun
Etymology: perhaps from obsolete brake bridle
1 : a device for arresting or preventing the motion of a mechanism usually by means of friction
2 : something used to slow down or stop movement or activity &lt;use interest rates as a brake on spending&gt;
- brake‚∑less /'brA-kl&s/ adjective

definition of a BREAK
Main Entry: 1break
Pronunciation: 'brAk
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): broke /'brOk/; bro‚∑ken /'brO-k&n/; break‚∑ing
Etymology: Middle English breken, from Old English brecan; akin to Old High German brehhan to break, Latin frangere
transitive senses
1 a : to separate into parts with suddenness or violence.
to disrupt the order or compactness of &lt;break ranks&gt;

again just being a smartass no insult intended. just trying to edgimacate here http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif

*****************************
BSS_CUDA
Co-Founder of my family
Black Sheep Executive Officer
USN retired

http://img42.photobucket.com/albums/v129/CUDA97045/CUDA_.jpg
blacksheep214.com (http://blacksheep214.com)
That was some of the best flying I've seen yet! right up to the part where you got killed.
you NEVER NEVER leave your wingman.

Jester : TopGun