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ouston
09-17-2004, 05:49 PM
Some years ago I came across the term "Winchester" in the voice chatter in EAW with a rather excited RAF type shouting "I am going Winchester". I have subsequently found the term "Winchester" in John Roberts' "The fighter pilot's handbook" as meaning "I am out of ammunition." In many years of avid reading of WWII memoirs I had not found the expression. Is it a WWII term, especially a piece of RAF slang, and can anybody tell me what the derivation is? Does it have anything to do with the various Winchester firearms?

Pip pip

Ouston

ouston
09-17-2004, 05:49 PM
Some years ago I came across the term "Winchester" in the voice chatter in EAW with a rather excited RAF type shouting "I am going Winchester". I have subsequently found the term "Winchester" in John Roberts' "The fighter pilot's handbook" as meaning "I am out of ammunition." In many years of avid reading of WWII memoirs I had not found the expression. Is it a WWII term, especially a piece of RAF slang, and can anybody tell me what the derivation is? Does it have anything to do with the various Winchester firearms?

Pip pip

Ouston

Bloodyclaws
09-17-2004, 05:51 PM
I know this won't help a WHOLe lot, but I recall hearing the term alot in American movies such as Top Gun" and "flight of the Intruder" so I believe it's a fairly modern term, but I am sure I am totally wrong.

On this same topic, I'd like to know why "Bingo" is the preferred term for out of fuel. Origin?

Oh what bitter,cold bite of steel shall a man make.

PBNA-Boosher
09-17-2004, 06:00 PM
correction, Bloodyclaws.

The term "Bingo" in modern military aviation means that your fuel is below the critical point, or, you've reached the maximum amount of distance you can travel, and only have enough fuel for the trip back. The fuel measurment is different for each aircraft, but the concept is the same.

Boosher
_____________________________
"So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you..."
-Gandalf

Bloodyclaws
09-17-2004, 06:12 PM
Techniclly, I knew that, I just didn't think it mattered as to the question as hand.

Oh what bitter,cold bite of steel shall a man make.

ouston
09-17-2004, 06:22 PM
Thanks for the comments. The term "Bingo" does seem to mean having only enough fuel to get home although why that word should be applied is not clear. "Bingo" in British English normally means something like "we've got it" or "we've solved it". It does not seem to relate to a pretty dicey situation when one may not get home. It has probably evolved through many, many beers in a lot of bars to mean something else.

Anybody care to discuss "Gone for a Burton" - RAF slang for dying. Again maybe a beer related derivation and who's against that? Burton-on-Trent is a centre for splendid beer and maybe it has something to do with somebody slipping off for a beer, never to come back. There is supposed to be a set of adverts from the 1930s where there is a football team or other group missing a man who is supposed to have gone off for a Burton. Myth, legend or nonsense?

All the best

Ouston

Zyzbot
09-17-2004, 06:29 PM
"Salty Dog Talk: The Nautical Origins of Everyday Expressions" by Bill Beavis and Richard G. McCloskey (Sheridan House; originally published in London in 1983): "Gone for a burton - Popular amongst airmen of World War II to describe those missing or killed in action. It is one of several expressions which transferred from the navy when its air wing was merged into the RAF in 1918. There are two derivations, each of them plausible. The first refers to a 'Spanish Burton' which was an ingenious but complicated pulley arrangement made up of three blocks. Indeed so complicated was the Spanish Burton, and so rarely used that hardly anyone could remember how to do it. Thus it became the standard answer to anyone in authority enquiring the whereabouts of a missing member of a working part 'he's gone for a burton'. The other explanation comes from the term 'a-burton' an unusual method of stowing wooden casks or barrels sideways across the ship's hold. The advantage of this was that they took up less space and were individually more accessible than when stowed in the fore-and-aft line. The disadvantage, however, and the reason why it was rarely employed, was that the entire stowage could easily collapse. Hence the implication of knocking a man over."

heywooood
09-17-2004, 06:38 PM
Burton was a cigarrete brand.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v250/heywooood/sair.jpg
"the real slim shady"

Captain_Avatar
09-17-2004, 06:42 PM
I remember this discussion on the EAW message boards way back when. The expression came about AFTER WW2.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ouston:
Some years ago I came across the term "Winchester" in the voice chatter in EAW with a rather excited RAF type shouting "I am going Winchester". I have subsequently found the term "Winchester" in John Roberts' "The fighter pilot's handbook" as meaning "I am out of ammunition." In many years of avid reading of WWII memoirs I had not found the expression. Is it a WWII term, especially a piece of RAF slang, and can anybody tell me what the derivation is? Does it have anything to do with the various Winchester firearms?

Pip pip

Ouston<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ouston
09-17-2004, 06:44 PM
Wow! What a quick answer! Thanks Zybot. Who knows what the real derivation is if indeed there is one. The first one sort of reminds me of when I was doing my ward training with the Royal Army Medical Corps they sent my younger and much more innocent oppo down to the maternity ward for a Fallopian tube. They were in the middle of a pretty traumatic crisis so did not appreciate the joke.

All the best

Ouston