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Multimetal
08-31-2004, 08:35 PM
OK, I've been playing this series of games since the old IL2 version 1.0, and I've never gotten this. When the AI calls out bandits for the first time, say for example at 5 o'clock, you can look back to 5 o'clock and see enemy ac there. (Frustrating that you can't call them out to your AI squad if you see em first!) But anytime after that, especially in the middle of a fight, when they call out bandits are they talking about them in relation to their position or mine? I've had them call out bandits at 1 o'clock that are nowhere near either my or their 1 o'clock. Same goes for headings, either back to base or during navigation-do the headings they call out relate to the compass bearing, or the number of degrees that we need to turn to find a new bearing? For example, say I'm flying around looking for home, and I radio to ask for a vector to base, the number that they give me to follow is usually nowhere near the number of the compass heading I need to follow or the number of degrees I need to turn to get on the right heading. I have a good understanding of navigation and situational awareness, but I'm stumped on these two. Can anyone help me out here?

Multimetal
08-31-2004, 08:35 PM
OK, I've been playing this series of games since the old IL2 version 1.0, and I've never gotten this. When the AI calls out bandits for the first time, say for example at 5 o'clock, you can look back to 5 o'clock and see enemy ac there. (Frustrating that you can't call them out to your AI squad if you see em first!) But anytime after that, especially in the middle of a fight, when they call out bandits are they talking about them in relation to their position or mine? I've had them call out bandits at 1 o'clock that are nowhere near either my or their 1 o'clock. Same goes for headings, either back to base or during navigation-do the headings they call out relate to the compass bearing, or the number of degrees that we need to turn to find a new bearing? For example, say I'm flying around looking for home, and I radio to ask for a vector to base, the number that they give me to follow is usually nowhere near the number of the compass heading I need to follow or the number of degrees I need to turn to get on the right heading. I have a good understanding of navigation and situational awareness, but I'm stumped on these two. Can anyone help me out here?

BlakJakOfSpades
08-31-2004, 10:36 PM
good question about that navigation and vectors, makes my head spin http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif but i find the vector back to base is usually accurate, i am flying aces 2.04 though

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wayno7777
08-31-2004, 10:41 PM
I usually ask for directions every couple of minutes cause sometimes you are just vectored to the holding area. I do this when I haven't a visual on the airfield yet.

p.s. the guy that keeps saying 315 degrees is driving me http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

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Any landing you can walk away from is a good one!

Tully__
08-31-2004, 10:41 PM
The enemy calls are relative to the target aircraft, but the messages aren't always directed at you. If someone else in your flight (or another flight) has an enemy near them you'll often hear an AI voice warning them of it.

As for the headings, same deal, you hear headings and altitudes called for all flights, not just your flight leader calling you. Also, sometimes (often??) the headings are 180 degrees out (them to you rather than you to them). This is something that EAW handled much better than IL2 does IMHO. The only time you heard bearings directed at you in EAW was when you specifically requested them. They were not exact headings, being rounded off to the nearest 30 degrees, but that's plenty close enough to get you within visual range provided you ask for updates occasionally.

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WTE_Galway
09-01-2004, 01:02 AM
the offline AI chat has always been an annoying and I would have thought easily fixed problem

the glitches that are the most annoying are:

- all flight commanders use the same voice and do not identify themselves so you never know if a vector or time to target refers to your flight or someone other flight entirely
- the nav vectors are sometimes 180 degrees out
- the nav vectors are referenced to the flight commanders current vector which if he happens to be turning at a way point can be meaningless
- AI commands to other AI to "return to base" etc seem to be generally ignored and are theerfore pointless

DD_NL
09-01-2004, 01:12 AM
I agree. There are two things in this game that are not done very well;
the sound (dont start a flame-war please)
and the AI-communication/chat. This was done way better in Jane's WWII Fighters.

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Cosmin666
09-01-2004, 02:07 AM
Hy guys and to all pilots out there !

i m an avid player of the original IL 2 STURMOVIK, but still i do not understand this ,,vector'' issue ...

suppose i m flying a single mission, just myself, i have just blasted my opponent out of the sky, and while the remains of his plain are falling, i m looking for a way home ...

if the tower says a vector, how do i follow it ? is there a gauge that shows the vector ?

shortly : what are the components of ,,vector'' ?

this way i might get some answers ...

PLEASE explain as you would to a person with little knowledge air navigation , in PLAIN ENGLISH ...

thanks a lot and hope to soon join you on the server !

Cosmin666
09-01-2004, 02:13 AM
Oh ... i forgot : while i m playing the original IL 2, i noticed the the human player has a very limited choice of aircrafts compare to the AI pilot in options tab ...(in Quick Builder)

How can i make it so that the human player also has at aleast as many options as the AI players regarding choice of aircrafts ?

Also, in Object Viewer (Main menu where you look at the planes, tanks etc) i noticed that the types of aircrafts are considerably much more numerous that even the options of AI pilots ... for instance, the human player has a choice of, let's say 10 models, the AI has a choice of 20 models, but in object viewer there are much more !!!!!

anybody any ideas ?!?

THANKS IN ADVANCE !!!

Tully__
09-01-2004, 02:28 AM
Vectors are compass headings. 0/360 is north, 90 is east, 180 is south and 270 is west. If the plane you're flying is one of those in which the compass is obscured, the current heading also shows in the speedbar (red numbers in the bottom left of the screen).

The aircraft flyable by the player are limited (in offline play) to those that have cockpit internals modelled in detail. If you have downloaded and installed all the patches, you've done as much as you can to make all flyable aircraft available. The patches you need for the original Sturmovik game can be found at 3DGamers' (http://www.3dgamers.com/games/il2sturmovik/) ILS Sturmovik page. You need:

il2upgrade_1.1a.exe (73.4MB)
il2upgrade_1.2.exe (28.4MB)

Optional extra: il2upgrade_1.2ov.exe (38.1MB) allows the use of 3rd party or modified voice files for AI pilots. Only install this if you have the other two patches.

In online play you can fly the aircraft available to the AI, but only from the external view in dogfight servers using specially modified mission files.

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michapma
09-01-2004, 03:09 AM
Cosmin, please note that the order of patches given by Tully are only valid if you have not already installed other patches, that is, you should only install patch 1.1a and then 1.2 if you are using version 1.0. IL-2 patches are rather complicated...

To be very basic, the compass/vector headings are represented from a top-down view of the aircraft, as you would view them on a map. As Tully said, they go through the 360 degrees of a circle, starting with 0 deg at the north heading, through to 360 deg, which is also the north heading. So when you want to follow a heading of 45 degrees (or 045), you should turn your aircraft until the compass reads halfway between 40 and 50 degrees, and you will be heading exactly northeast. The compasses are implemented differently in the various aircraft according to how they were historically implemented. Check the instrument reference chart that comes with the game (there is a PDF on the CD if you don't have a printed version) to see what the compasses (in some cases the repeater compasses) may look like. In some aircraft, the compass is obstructed from view; then you have to rely on the speed bar for headings, which is the three lines of red text at the bottom left-hand corner of the screen. The heading is the three-digit number on the line labeled HDG.

There are also clock positions: these however are not fixed but rather relative to your aircraft. The clock positions are also seen from a top-down view of the aircraft (unless the aircraft is inverted!). They start with the twelve o'clock position, which is straight on behind the prop, and go (logically enough) clockwise, or to the right from the pilot's perspective. The three-o'clock position is directly to the right, and the six o'clock position is directly behind you... hence the phrase "check six." So if an AI calls out enemy fighters, 10 o'clock high, you should look a bit forward of directly to the left, and up. (In the USAF brevity system, a left or right was added before the clock position, so that it goes "Left, 10 o'clock high," or "Right, 4 o'clock low.") The complaint is, that the bandits probably won't be there, since the comms are not always very useful. They're far more useful (hopefully) when you are flying with humans. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

So to make it clear (or confuse you more, whichever), if you are on a heading of 270, your 9 o'clock position happens to be on the 180 heading, and your 3 o'clock position is on the 0 (or 000 or 360) heading. If you turn through 30 degrees to the right you will be following heading 300, and your 3 o'clock will be the 030 heading and your 9 o'clock will be on heading 210. That's not something you normally need to calculate, just an exercise to make sure you understand it.

Using the headings is essential for tracking your own position, which for me is necessary since I love to go for immersion and don't use any icons. Course reversals are often needed quickly. If you are on a "major" heading such as 180 or 270, knowing a 180 course reversal is trivial, but what is the the opposite heading of 152? I use this shortcut to calculate headings to calculate 180-degree course changes: first add or subtract 200 (whichever gives you a number between 0 and 360), and then subtract or add 20 to that (depending on whether you added or subtracted before). Actually, I reduce it to a two-digit problem, so I would not calculate from 152, but from 150, and pop the 2 back on the end when finished. 15 plus 20 is 350, minus 2 is 330, so the course reversal is on heading 332. Same trick for 90 degree course changes, only I use 100 (actually 10) instead of 200.

Cheers

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michapma
09-01-2004, 03:15 AM
I forgot to mention, sometimes compasses only show two digits, and sometimes only one digit. 18 on a compass means heading 180, and heading 4 would mean 40 degrees, heading 040. I find it better to always add the 0 before a heading to avoid confusion. Modern-day aviation uses this convention. Airstrip headings by today's conventions are always only given as two digits, rounded to the nearest 10-degree increment, so a runway aligned along 243 would be runway 24, and along 57 degrees would be runway 06.

See this excellent site for (LOTS) more information on modern navigational practice:
http://www.navfltsm.addr.com/index.htm

I warn you, it's fascinating. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/) | Forgotten Skies (http://www.forgottenskies.com/)
But we are all that way: when we know a thing we have only scorn for other people who don't happen to know it. - Mark Twain, Personal Recollections of Joan of Arc

Cosmin666
09-01-2004, 06:29 AM
I would like to thank everybody who helped me ...

Finally, now i havea chance to understand how orientation works ...

just for you guys, i m going to take a 1943 plane VS 2 1943 enemy planes ... i hope to live to tell you the story :-)

Dasvidania ...

Cosmin666
09-01-2004, 07:03 AM
Just a short fast question >

do any of these add ons allow me to fly a Me 262 ? that cool nazi jet fighter ...

and if they do not allow me that, do you know how i could fly it ?

DASVIDANIA

Tully__
09-01-2004, 07:11 AM
To fly the Me262 you'll need to buy IL2:Forgotten Battles. I'd suggest that if you choose to do so you buy the Gold Pack, that way you get Ace Expansion Pack at the same time (with even more available flyable aircraft http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif)

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michapma
09-01-2004, 09:07 AM
If more flyable aircraft is what you're after, Forgotten Battles and the AEP are definitely the right thing for you.

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The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/) | Forgotten Skies (http://www.forgottenskies.com/)
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lil_labbit
09-01-2004, 09:39 AM
Look at it this way:

there is no other fun flightsim online but IL-2 series http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Best money I ever spend http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

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Answer: I didn't know they had a reverse...

Multimetal
09-01-2004, 01:26 PM
Just to be clear: I'm currently playing AEP 2.04, and I understand navigation and the clock system. So when the AI calls out bearings and enemy A/C positions, they are referring to them in relation to themselves, and not to me? And the bearings to home base are sometimes 180 degrees reversed? It would be great if someone who knows more about programming than me could get into the audio system of the game and change the flight leader voices so they are specific to each flight, so you know when to pay attention!

WTE_Galway
09-01-2004, 05:32 PM
multimetal ..

almost but not quite

the AI vector bearings are indeed the current height and direction the AI plane making the call are flying at that point in time and the plane making the call might or might not be your own flight leader

if the vector called out matches the bearing of one of the courselines between waypoints on your mission map there is a good chance it is your own flight

vectors to home base are relative to your position i have not noticed these to be out by 180 degrees but it should be reasonably obvious if they are

now .. enemy plane sightings are different .. sometimes these do seem to relate to your own position and sometimes to anotehr position, its hard to tell

another hint about navigation .. the map squares are 10km across when expanded out and a square takes roughly 3 minutes to fly across at 300kmh

Cosmin666
09-02-2004, 01:24 AM
HY PILOTS !

ONCE AGAIN THANKS FOR THEH ELP WITH VECTOR ... NOW I GOT IT !

i HAVE INSTALLED ONLY THE INITIAL VERSION OF IL2 ...

IN ORDER TO HAVE THE FULL SET OF EACH AND EVERY AVAILABLE

FEATURE THERE IS TO IT ... WHAT SHOULD I GET AND IN WHAT ORDER ?

ARE THOSE PATCHES ENOUGH ?

THANKS AND GOOD WINDS ...

WTE_Galway
09-02-2004, 01:29 AM
what Tully said:

il2upgrade_1.1a.exe (73.4MB)
il2upgrade_1.2.exe (28.4MB)

Optional extra: il2upgrade_1.2ov.exe (38.1MB) allows the use of 3rd party or modified voice files for AI pilots. Only install this if you have the other two patches.

Cosmin666
09-02-2004, 04:46 AM
But the add on Forgotten Battles and Ace Expansion Pack (AEP) don t they already contain all these upgrades ?

If i install only them, i no longer need any other patch, right ?

Tully__
09-03-2004, 08:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cosmin666:
But the add on Forgotten Battles and Ace Expansion Pack (AEP) don t they already contain all these upgrades ?

If i install only them, i no longer need any other patch, right ?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

AEP brings FB up to 2.0, but you'll still need 2.01 and 2.04 to come completely up to date. Both of those were released after AEP.

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oddglob
09-03-2004, 08:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>- all flight commanders use the same voice and do not identify themselves so you never know if a vector or time to target refers to your flight or someone other flight entirely
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And it's even worse when they say "mission accomplished" and you spend five minutes working out if it actually is or not.

I have to say this is one of the biggest issues I have with this sim. At first it did not occur to me the voices I were hearing were for other flights, and consequently I finished missions completely disorientated - both positionally and in terms of what I was even supposed to be doing.

Now I just have to take a guess as to whether the instructions are for me or not.

Is there any way around this at all? Are all the leader voices Actor # 1?

Cosmin666
09-04-2004, 05:42 AM
IL2 STURMOVIK FORGOTTEN BATTLES is an add-on to the original game or is it a stand-alone game ???

does it require me to have the original or not ...???

The order is : Forgotten Battles, Ace Expansion Pack, 2.01 and 2.04 ... right ?


P.S&gt; : what is 2.01 and 2.04 ? please tell me their full name so i know what to look for ... thanks

Tully__
09-04-2004, 09:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cosmin666:
IL2 STURMOVIK FORGOTTEN BATTLES is an add-on to the original game or is it a stand-alone game ???

does it require me to have the original or not ...???

The order is : Forgotten Battles, Ace Expansion Pack, 2.01 and 2.04 ... right ?


P.S&gt; : what is 2.01 and 2.04 ? please tell me their full name so i know what to look for ... thanks<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That order is correct. 2.01 and 2.04 are patches for FB + AEP. They can be obtained from 3DGamers (http://www.3dgamers.com/games/il2sturmovik2/) among other places. You want the files listed at under the "Files for Mission Packs" heading with the names:

patchil2_aep_201.exe
aep_patch204.exe

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