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phoenix-force411
03-01-2015, 07:14 AM
My best antagonist would have to be Haytham Kenway with Al Mualim as second to that. As for my worst antagonists, it would have to be Francois-Thomas Germain with Cesare Borgia as second worst.

What are yours?

Sabutto
03-01-2015, 07:25 AM
HMM

Best would have to be Haytham Kenway and Thomas Hickey

Worse would have to be Charles Leee < Dude was all talk. Chevaliers < Hated him as a person

Shahkulu101
03-01-2015, 07:28 AM
Exact same as you OP. :cool:

Namikaze_17
03-01-2015, 07:29 AM
Same as you, OP.

Fatal-Feit
03-01-2015, 07:44 AM
I'm assuming best means favorite?

Mine are Haytham Kenway and Pierre Bellec. Ironically, both are of opposite factions but are boss fights that ends with pressing X.

I don't really think about the worse, but if I had to choose, it might be... Prince Ahmet and Rodrigo Borgia.

SixKeys
03-01-2015, 07:44 AM
Best: Al Mualim and Vidic.

Worst: Thomas Hickey and Baron de Valois.

Shahkulu101
03-01-2015, 07:49 AM
Baron De Valois was hilariously cartoony, beyond even the levels of Cesare. I mean that as a good thing, gave me some laughs.

He even had an evil mustache, and if I'm not mistaken he actually twisted it.

Fatal-Feit
03-01-2015, 07:55 AM
^ Exactly why I neglected Brotherhood's antagonists. They are so beyond mustache twirling to the point they became comical relief and I had fun with that.

SixKeys
03-01-2015, 07:56 AM
I don't hate the baron, I just found him too silly even by ACB standards.

Namikaze_17
03-01-2015, 07:59 AM
Ah, him...

I honestly did nothing but laugh during his assassination & death speech.

I'm probably cold for saying that but whatever.

VestigialLlama4
03-01-2015, 08:11 AM
My best antagonist would have to be Haytham Kenway with Al Mualim as second to that. As for my worst antagonists, it would have to be Francois-Thomas Germain with Cesare Borgia as second worst.

What are yours?

Well in terms of Main Villains:
Best : Black Bart and King Washington
Worst: Francois-Thomas Germain and Cesare Borgia.

In terms of Deputy Villains:

Best: Robert de Sable and Thomas Hickey (with a commendation for Pierre Bellec)
Worst: Charles Lee and Marie Levesque (and nearly all the Unity Templars).

In terms of missions:
Best: Hochmeister Sibrand and John Pitcairn.
Worst: Haytham Kenway(who should have had a proper boss-fight to take him out) and Governor Torres.

Fatal-Feit
03-01-2015, 08:13 AM
I'm going to replace one of my worse antagonists with RO Achilles.

Xangr8
03-01-2015, 08:47 AM
The best antagonist? Hmmm... HAYTHAM! I loved his way of doing this. So British :3
The worst would be Marie Levesque if she counts. Oh, boy! Her assassination mission, she could've easily become the Templar Grand Master if she'd want to. Otherwise, other than Marie, it's Madeleine de l'Isle, you know it, she was stupid and annoying.

phoenix-force411
03-01-2015, 09:08 AM
Well in terms of Main Villains:
Best : Black Bart and King Washington
Worst: Francois-Thomas Germain and Cesare Borgia.

In terms of Deputy Villains:

Best: Robert de Sable and Thomas Hickey (with a commendation for Pierre Bellec)
Worst: Charles Lee and Marie Levesque (and nearly all the Unity Templars).

In terms of missions:
Best: Hochmeister Sibrand and John Pitcairn.
Worst: Haytham Kenway(who should have had a proper boss-fight to take him out) and Governor Torres.

Torres and Cesare were very absent antagonists within their games which made it less exciting when it came to killing them.

Fatal-Feit
03-01-2015, 09:13 AM
The best antagonist? Hmmm... HAYTHAM! I loved his way of doing this. So British :3
The worst would be Marie Levesque if she counts. Oh, boy! Her assassination mission, she could've easily become the Templar Grand Master if she'd want to. Otherwise, other than Marie, it's Madeleine de l'Isle, you know it, she was stupid and annoying.

Do you have a 2nd best antagonist?

Xangr8
03-01-2015, 09:18 AM
Do you have a 2nd best antagonist?
Hmmm...Regniald Birch. He inducted the son of a Master Assassin into the Templar Order, I mean that's pretty badass. If Reginald doesn't count as an antagonist then, Bartholomew Roberts. He was an influential Sage with a lot of resources.

Fatal-Feit
03-01-2015, 09:24 AM
Hmmm...Regniald Birch. I mean he inducted a son of a Master Assassin into the Templar Order, I mean that's pretty badass. If Reginald doesn't count as an antagonist then, Bartholomew Roberts. He was an influential Sage with a lot of resources.

OP wasn't specific so Reginald is fine. I would have preferred a 3 part DLC for Haytham where he confronts him, ending with Connor finding Haytham's novel and reading it over ToKW in AC3.

Xangr8
03-01-2015, 09:29 AM
OP wasn't specific so Reginald is fine. I would have preferred a 3 part DLC for Haytham where he confronts him, ending with Connor finding Haytham's novel and reading it over ToKW in AC3.

Yeah, that'd have been better than ToKW.

Shahkulu101
03-01-2015, 09:31 AM
Oh damn I forgot Roberts - Black Bart all the way he's way better than Al Mualim. So:

-Bart Roberts.
-Haymitch

Xangr8
03-01-2015, 09:40 AM
Oh damn I forgot Roberts - Black Bart all the way he's way better than Al Mualim. So:

-Bart Roberts.
-Haymitch

I know you've done that on purpose but, on a side note, everytime some says Haymitch, it's Hunger Games that comes to my mind XD

GunnerGalactico
03-01-2015, 10:21 AM
Best- Haytham & Al Mualim

Worst- Prince Ahmet & Savonarola

king-hailz
03-01-2015, 10:32 AM
Best would have to be Al Mualim and Rodrigo Borgia worst would probably be charles Lee and that guy from unity... so forgettable...

VestigialLlama4
03-01-2015, 10:45 AM
OP wasn't specific so Reginald is fine. I would have preferred a 3 part DLC for Haytham where he confronts him, ending with Connor finding Haytham's novel and reading it over ToKW in AC3.

A three-part DLC where Haytham finds out that he was a puppet to his father's murderer who also sold his sister to sexual slavery and then decides to continue being a Templar even if it was all based on lies...the Tyranny DLC is plenty more satisfying thank you very much. Seriously, that part of Forsaken never made sense to me, all part of the incoherence of Haytham as a character.

Fatal-Feit
03-01-2015, 11:06 AM
I don't want to be rude, but you're on my ignore list for a reason. Dunno if you're breaking forum rules, but you might be.

Farlander1991
03-01-2015, 12:05 PM
Black Bart is my favourite antagonist (also, just in case, he's the main antagonist of AC4, not Torres). He's such an interesting character and such a perfect foil for Edward.
And Haytham too.

dimbismp
03-01-2015, 12:15 PM
Best:Haytham and Torres (Honorable mention:Roberts and Germain)
Worst: De Sable and Lee

Xstantin
03-01-2015, 12:29 PM
Best: Haytham and Roberts
Worst: Cesare and Baron de Valois

Defalt221
03-01-2015, 12:37 PM
my best antagonist would have to be haytham kenway with al mualim as second to that. As for my worst antagonists, it would have to be francois-thomas germain with cesare borgia as second worst.

What are yours?

where is charles lee?!

Hans684
03-01-2015, 12:51 PM
Best: Henry Kenway & Ahmed (Honorable mentions: Torres & Adèwalè)

Worst: Anyone from Unity, Brotherhood or 2.

ze_topazio
03-01-2015, 01:23 PM
As far as I'm concerned Haytham is the protagonist of AC3 so Connor is the best antagonist.



joking


sort of...

Hans684
03-01-2015, 03:01 PM
As far as I'm concerned Haytham is the protagonist of AC3 so Connor is the best antagonist.



joking


sort of...


Connor would have been a great future antagonist/villain.

SpiritOfNevaeh
03-01-2015, 05:26 PM
Best: Haytham (Hickey is very close) and Al Mualim
Worst: Cesare and Vidic


Connor would have been a great future antagonist/villain.

I'm VERY curious to know why :)

Kaschra
03-01-2015, 05:55 PM
Best: Haytham Kenway & Bartholomew Roberts (honorable mention: Al Mualim)

Worst: Cesare & pretty much everyone from AC2 (not so honorable mention: Germain)

Hans684
03-01-2015, 07:07 PM
I'm VERY curious to know why :)

Not in AC3 but it's who he is that would make it interesting. He's a good guy right(but a lot of bad choices(but that's another discussion entirely))? So being let's say a Templar just as good but his good work goes against Connor's good work. Things would play out in a different way compared to other "villains", it can go like this:

"Shay returns as Grand Master and builds a new order in the shadows containg of Assassin Hunters after hiding the precursors box in Europe. Some time during his later years as an old Grand Master, he returns to the homestead some time after March 1804 and plans to make peace with Connor and his brotherhood. While his daughter has her children located in a safe location away from both Assassins and Templars in case of conflict, she later was sent by Shay to make peace with Babatunde Josèphe and Eseosa's brotherhood in Saint-Domingue.
Eseosa and Babatunde kill the daughter of the man who killed their grandfather/father and that in turn causes enough chaos for the peace attempt with Connor to fail. As an Assassin Hunter trained by Shay your job will be to rescue him since he has become a hostage at Devenport due to the failed peace attempt."

Not a Revenge story with a protagonist with family loss, not black and white story with cartoon villains. I love gray stories so having Connor as an antagonist would force that. Then again it's "forced" and "unrealistic" with gray stories so they must make Connor a cartoon villain.

Democrito_71
03-01-2015, 07:19 PM
Best Antagonists; Roberts(AC4) and Haytham(AC3)
Both Roberts and Haytham had a lot of depth and their beliefs were neither black or white.
Their beliefs were so gray that even if you disagree with their opinions, you still can understand why they believe as they do

Worst Antagonists; Prince Ahmet(Revelations) and Cesare(Brotherhood)
Prince Ahmet were barely there and his actions didn't have an impact to the story to even count as a villain(He were just annoying talker imo) and Cesare was a cliché, typical cartoonish evil villain with no depth. Though, I still enjoyed killing him off :cool:

VestigialLlama4
03-01-2015, 08:03 PM
Not a Revenge story with a protagonist with family loss, not black and white story with cartoon villains. I love gray stories so having Connor as an antagonist would force that. Then again it's "forced" and "unrealistic" with gray stories so they must make Connor a cartoon villain.

The problem is that schema you suggest is still a story of revenge, Eseosa kills Shay's daughter to avenge Adewale's death, its entirely a street-gang vendetta without anything larger in ideology or history at stake. It's only when you focus on history or philosophy that it becomes gray like in AC1 or AC3. I think ROGUE did a good job with making the Assassins gray villains who aren't evil, even if it soft-stells and white-washes (on every level) Shay's involvement with the Templars by never having do the outright evil things earlier Templars did.

I personally can't see any reason why Connor or Shay would have any peace. I mean Shay respected Haytham and to him, Connor would be a fanatic Assassin who committed Patricide rather than follow peace, that's how all Templars(and even Assassin like Bellec) see Connor in the AC-world and Shay sees the Assassins as blind killers by the end of ROGUE. It would have to be Connor who tries to make peace (not unrealistic since he offers Templars a fair hearing out in AC3 before they spit on his mercy) but why make it with someone who betrayed the Brotherhood.

Hans684
03-01-2015, 08:52 PM
The problem is that schema you suggest is still a story of revenge, Eseosa kills Shay's daughter to avenge Adewale's death, its entirely a street-gang vendetta without anything larger in ideology or history at stake.

Makes sense from their perspective, it's a never ending war so revenge/vendettas regarding family is something happening all the time. Doesn't stop it from having ideology or history at stake. The kill of her simply is the begging of the chain of event.


It's only when you focus on history or philosophy that it becomes gray like in AC1 or AC3.

As said, it doesn't change the fact that those can be in the game. People related to each other is gonna die either way, it's AC we're talking about.


I think ROGUE did a good job with making the Assassins gray villains who aren't evil

You wouldn't say that if the Templars accidentally destroyed two cities. Just putting things in perspective.


Even if it soft-stells and white-washes (on every level) Shay's involvement with the Templars by never having do the outright evil things earlier Templars did.

Not all Templars are the same, just like not ever Muslim is a terrorist.


I personally can't see any reason why Connor or Shay would have any peace.

Both want peace, Connor tried but broke it and Shay have suggested it but was in a far to low rank as an Assassin to actually be able to do it. Him being a GM is his golden operturnity.


I mean Shay respected Haytham and to him, Connor would be a fanatic Assassin who committed Patricide rather than follow peace.

Speculation, we don't know how he views him but we will when he research him.


That's how all Templars(and even Assassin like Bellec) see Connor in the AC-world

Connor would be viewed as a legend by the Assassin, he is up there in their pedestals along with Altaïr, Ezio and Adéwalé. The Templar would view him as a treat, just as any other big Assassin that has done something big.


Shay sees the Assassins as blind killers by the end of ROGUE.

Because of his "cold" kill, it's no different than any other cold kills by previous protagonist. As for his view, he just a fully committed Templar and cares for the people.


It would have to be Connor who tries to make peace (not unrealistic since he offers Templars a fair hearing out in AC3 before they spit on his mercy)

Haytham suggests a truce(he aimed for peace) and Connor agree, so they hunt for Benjamin together and get the supplies. After that they deliver the intel to good ol' Georgy and Haytham reveal his plan on attacking his tribe and what he did years before that. Shocked Connor threatens both and breaks the truce before saving his tribe.....
Sometime later he plans on hunting Charles Lee who is said to be at the Templar stronghold in New York but there is no trace of his father, so he makes a deal with someone from the French navy so he can get their ships for his attack on the stronghold. His idea is to kill Charles then make peace with his father, after getting the ships he sneaks in to the stronghold and signals the ships to fire before looking for Charles Lee. Surprisingly he finds his father and gets attacked, a little family drama and fighting and out of the blue in the mids of the destruction and fighting he created he offers his father peace in exchange of Charles. So Connor breaks the truce, attacks their stronghold and expects peace? Yeah the Templars surely "spit" on his "mercy".


But why make it with someone who betrayed the Brotherhood.

Doesn't really matter who of them but peace is highly possible. It makes sense since their characters is similar, both cares about the people.

Altair1789
03-01-2015, 10:31 PM
Best: Achilles and Chevalier

Worst: Robert de Sable and Charles Lee

Namikaze_17
03-02-2015, 12:27 AM
make Connor a cartoon villain.

Oh, no. Anything but that.

I'm digging the idea, but Connor being that cartoon villain crap would kill him for me.

Hans684
03-02-2015, 05:40 AM
Oh, no. Anything but that.

I'm digging the idea, but Connor being that cartoon villain crap would kill him for me.

Wasn't serious, more of a reference to gray stories being "forced" and "unrealistic". If that's true he'd have to be that but it isn't.

Namikaze_17
03-02-2015, 06:24 AM
Wasn't serious, more of a reference to gray stories being "forced" and "unrealistic". If that's true he'd have to be that but it isn't.

Oh, yes. I know you weren't serious.

I just forgot to insert emotes. ^__^

LoyalACFan
03-02-2015, 08:43 AM
My two favorites are Al Mualim and Haytham. I'm having a hard time coming up with my two least favorite though, because IMO a bad antagonist is not one you hate, it's one you're indifferent about, and that describes the entire Templar cast of Unity. They barely even qualify as characters. I honestly would have preferred the over-the-top stereotypical villains of ACB. Sure they're cheesy, but at least they were halfway memorable.