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View Full Version : Feature request: realistic skip-bombing



A.K.Davis
02-18-2004, 12:20 AM
Would like to see bombs with delay work on water targets, so that we can perform realistic "mast-top" attacks on shipping. Would also like to see restrictions implemented on torpedo use. Hopefully both will be in the code in time for Luthier's add-on.

--AKD

http://www.flyingpug.com/pugline2.jpg

A.K.Davis
02-18-2004, 12:20 AM
Would like to see bombs with delay work on water targets, so that we can perform realistic "mast-top" attacks on shipping. Would also like to see restrictions implemented on torpedo use. Hopefully both will be in the code in time for Luthier's add-on.

--AKD

http://www.flyingpug.com/pugline2.jpg

KG26_Alpha
02-18-2004, 04:41 AM
Hi
Skip bombing is fairly accurate once you have a pattern set out.
Stuka D3 300kph 3000m 90'dive into 20' attack flatten under flak 300kph delay set 2 sec you get 2 bounces from all 3 bombs maintaining 300 kph, its possible for a short time only.
FW190 500kph 4000m 70' dive into 20' attack flatten under flak 600kph delay set 2 secs you get one bounce from bombs. I find accelerating into 20' gives you a chance against the ships flak but the release point is critical as I flatten into bomb release i take about 2 secs to get them away or flak kills you normally.
Having a mental release point for distance from the ship is important.

These are the only 2 planes i ever attempt it in as they work well, you have to adjust the speed for your release point i usually count in my head as approaching the shipping the bomb delay + speed altitude etc. A hit right in the middle of the ship usually sends it down.

WhiskeyRiver
02-18-2004, 06:17 AM
can u post a track of this. I have been trying to skip bomb and can't seem to get it to work.

To kill me you've got to hit the heart Ramon--Clint F*cking Eastwood

XyZspineZyX
02-18-2004, 11:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WhiskeyRiver:
can u post a track of this. I have been trying to skip bomb and can't seem to get it to work.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
In my tracks folder I have an *.ntrk called "Top Mast". I believe is is a default track. It shows a P-40 skip bombing a cruiser.



http://www.il2airracing.com/images/IL2AirRacing.gif
http://www.il2airracing.com/

Fennec_P
02-19-2004, 02:58 AM
Skip bombing is possible as long as you do not set a bomb delay.

Setting any delay will cause the bomb to do no damage. Bomb delay must be 0.

I suggest apporaching at 600km/h at water level, release at about 300m range, and pull up quickly so the blast doesn't kill you.

A.K.Davis
02-19-2004, 11:15 AM
Skip-bombing should work with delay. That is why it is not realistic. Historically, skip-bombing was carried out by twin-engine medium bombers releasing their loads at mast-top height, sometimes skipping the bombs, sometimes putting them right into the ships and often barely clearing the superstructure of the target vessel to exit the area at high speed. The only way this could be done safely was with delay on the bombs to allow the attackers to clear the blast.

1. The speeds necessary to clear the blast from mast-top height in FB are not feasible in a medium bomber.

2. To pull a low-level skip-bombing attack off in any aircraft in FB, you have to pull back hard after releasing your bombs. This would never be done in real life. Why? Losing a bunch of speed and gaining altitude right over the target area would be about the worst thing you could do.

3. Conclusion: skip-bombing is not realistic in FB, although the bombs do skip.

--AKD

http://www.flyingpug.com/pugline2.jpg

[This message was edited by A.K.Davis on Thu February 19 2004 at 10:48 AM.]

A.K.Davis
02-19-2004, 11:47 AM
Russian diagram of A-20 mast-top attack profiles (both skip and direct):

http://www.bellabs.ru/51/Photos/AttackScheme-02.gif

B-25s attacking at mast-top height:

http://www.grafixnpix.com/wwii/b25atak1.jpg

another skip-bombing attack:

http://www.grafixnpix.com/wwii/formosa1.jpg

http://www.grafixnpix.com/wwii/formosa2.jpg

500lb. bomb tumbling over Japanese destroyer during skip-bombing attack:

http://www.grafixnpix.com/wwii/eshpdstd.jpg

view from B-25 after skip-bombing a frigate:

http://www.grafixnpix.com/wwii/amatsu1.jpg

more B-25s skip-bombing:

http://www.exkiap.net/contributors/pennefather/ww2/k01.jpg

http://www.exkiap.net/contributors/pennefather/ww2/k03.jpg

another rear-view:

http://www.exkiap.net/contributors/pennefather/ww2/sp040.jpg

http://www.exkiap.net/contributors/pennefather/ww2/sp052.jpg

Here bombs skip into ship:

http://www.exkiap.net/contributors/pennefather/ww2/spr103a.jpg

then explode as attacker clears area:

http://www.exkiap.net/contributors/pennefather/ww2/spr103b.jpg

another sequence of release and skip into ship, followed by explosion:

http://www.exkiap.net/contributors/pennefather/ww2/wk01b.jpg

http://www.exkiap.net/contributors/pennefather/ww2/wk01c.jpg

B-25s passing low over shipping, bomb-bays open:

http://www.exkiap.net/contributors/pennefather/ww2/wk27.jpg

--AKD

http://www.flyingpug.com/pugline2.jpg

VF-17_Jolly
02-19-2004, 11:56 AM
Skip bombing with a delay works on static targets like bridges but i guess the deeper water softens the explosion too much so if you reduce the delay you might get a hit that does some damage (though i have tried with out success myself) the basic principal does work i think the blast effect in water may need looking at

http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/ModelArticles/Grinberg/spit5/orig_spit5vvs.jpg

WWMaxGunz
02-19-2004, 01:03 PM
If the effects of water and ship hull below teh waterline were modelled at all then bombs going off after a 2 second drop would be more effective by far than bombs going off on the surface. The bomb underwater is a tamped charge with much stronger shock effects on the hull. Water does not compress so the blast is lessened only by the increase in surface area of the expanding shock sphere and any losses due to water being blown free of the surface. The one on the surface loses much of the potential to the air which is many times less resistant to the pressure of the blast. Air blasts lose power at a much greater rate with time and distance than underwater blasts.

No... it is not modelled or even roughly simulated. Does a bomb bursting below the surface even make a spray above? Perhaps M-80's and the like were not part of the development teams childhoods.


Neal

VF-17_Jolly
02-21-2004, 09:17 AM
bump with torpedos as well

http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/ModelArticles/Grinberg/spit5/orig_spit5vvs.jpg

Willey
02-21-2004, 11:58 AM
http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/diverses/b_8.jpg

There's even a bug with ice. On winter maps, all the water is frozen. I played a mission where there were some ships (quite logic DOH, but anyway...). Dropped bombs with timer. No damage http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

ElAurens
02-21-2004, 09:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fennec_P:
I suggest apporaching at 600km/h at water level,<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No aircraft that I regularly fly can go 600kph at sealevel.

_____________________________

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BlitzPig_EL

chris455
02-21-2004, 09:46 PM
Thanks for posting the great pics AK!
THAT'S MY FIFTH AIR FORCE, BABY!!!!!!
S!

http://members.cox.net/miataman1/P47.jpg