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arcadeace
01-23-2004, 12:51 AM
Currently the only game I play is FB and sim enthusiasts are definitely in the minority, games like Lock-On, FB etc. will never be best sellers. Play Station and XBox players are the main stream and PC first person shooter types are much more popular.

My premise is since we demand more realism for the intended challenge, the raw experience needed to achieve adequate skill and thrill requires more disciplined patience, and a higher learning curve developed over months of continuous commitment.

We are a niche. So much so some are intimidated to even try. Generally we have a higher level of interest in associated historical knowledge with many enjoying true facts and particulars simple and complex, sometimes resulting in a higher level of immersion. From my knowledge even the amount of possible accessories, not to mention cost, is second to none.

By "cut above" I don't mean to imply we're better, to each his own. But its my impression as a community we always scrutinize with unending judgment to enhance our commitment, surpassing the remainder of the gaming community.

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_222_1074803366.jpg

arcadeace
01-23-2004, 12:51 AM
Currently the only game I play is FB and sim enthusiasts are definitely in the minority, games like Lock-On, FB etc. will never be best sellers. Play Station and XBox players are the main stream and PC first person shooter types are much more popular.

My premise is since we demand more realism for the intended challenge, the raw experience needed to achieve adequate skill and thrill requires more disciplined patience, and a higher learning curve developed over months of continuous commitment.

We are a niche. So much so some are intimidated to even try. Generally we have a higher level of interest in associated historical knowledge with many enjoying true facts and particulars simple and complex, sometimes resulting in a higher level of immersion. From my knowledge even the amount of possible accessories, not to mention cost, is second to none.

By "cut above" I don't mean to imply we're better, to each his own. But its my impression as a community we always scrutinize with unending judgment to enhance our commitment, surpassing the remainder of the gaming community.

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_222_1074803366.jpg

GoodKn1ght
01-23-2004, 12:54 AM
unless you fly "arcade" then ur not really a "simmer."

"Friends don't let friends fly arcade"

RedDeth
01-23-2004, 12:58 AM
all games online are tough if you play against the best. play unreal tournament online on a pro server and you will never get one kill. ever. and its just an fps game. those games require about 50 times quicker reflexes than FB. flying fb after UT youll feel like your in quicksand and the movie is in slow motion. is a sim a cut above? no. you get owned in any game you dont master. UT has just as many techniques and tactics as FB does. just ask any clan . if you want the definition of a great gamer or simmer its someone that can master 3 or more games simultaneously. trust me its not easy unless your unemployed and live at home

www.fighterjocks.net (http://www.fighterjocks.net) home of the 11 time Champions Team AFJ. 6 Years Flying. http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_120_1065509034.jpg

tenmmike
01-23-2004, 01:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by arcadeace:
Currently the only game I play is FB and sim enthusiasts are definitely in the minority, games like Lock-On, FB etc. will never be best sellers. Play Station and XBox players are the main stream and PC first person shooter types are much more popular.

My premise is since we demand more realism for the intended challenge, the raw experience needed to achieve adequate skill and thrill requires more disciplined patience, and a higher learning curve developed over months of continuous commitment.

We are a niche. So much so some are intimidated to even try. Generally we have a higher level of interest in associated historical knowledge with many enjoying true facts and particulars simple and complex, sometimes resulting in a higher level of immersion. From my knowledge even the amount of possible accessories, not to mention cost, is second to none.

By "cut above" I don't mean to imply we're better, to each his own. But its my impression as a community we always scrutinize with unending judgment to enhance our commitment, surpassing the remainder of the gaming community.

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_222_1074803366.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> i know what your saying ............red is probley right as well but im arrogent enough to believe what you are saying i believe as a whole we (flight simmers )are better then the 13 yr fps guys ..IMHO

http://images.ar15.com/forums/smiles/anim_50cal.gif U.S INFANTRY 1984-1991

Fehler
01-23-2004, 01:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GoodKn1ght:
unless you fly "arcade" then ur not really a "simmer."

"Friends don't let friends fly arcade"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ROFL!!

Oh, I DO like this guy.. LOL

http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/FehlerSig.gif
http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/9JG54.html

Rajvosa
01-23-2004, 01:42 AM
You're flattering youreslf, arcadeace! I play with full real as well, but i'd never try to imply I'm a "higher being" because of that. I enjoy Grand Prix Legends as much as FB (probably because it is way more realistic than any other driving game). I also like good old adventure games like Monkey Island. They're both funny and difficult. Max Payne 1 & 2 are both excellent games as well. My point being is that I'd never look down on anybody. It actually reminds me of nazis: we are the uber race, everything else is crap.



Golf GTI Edition 2.0 16v

Alexi_Alx_Anova
01-23-2004, 01:45 AM
I agree with all here. However, I'd like to see some FPS players investing in hundreds of dollars of HOTAS, pedals, etc.

This is why simmers are going to rejoice at the 1.22 sound engine and gamers are going to whine.

Alexi

-----------------------------
Drug of choice....coffee

http://web.onetel.net.uk/~alx_747/coffee.jpg
-----------------------------

ELEM
01-23-2004, 02:04 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rajvosa:
You're flattering youreslf, arcadeace! I play with full real as well, but i'd never try to imply I'm a "higher being" because of that. I enjoy Grand Prix Legends as much as FB (probably because it is way more realistic than any other driving game). I also like good old adventure games like Monkey Island. They're both funny and difficult. Max Payne 1 & 2 are both excellent games as well. My point being is that I'd never look down on anybody. It actually reminds me of nazis: we are the uber race, everything else is crap.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm with Rajvosa here. I dislike eliteism in all it's forms. You might find those 13 y.o. FPS players are better than US in some other way. Vive la differance!

I wouldn't join any club that would have ME as member!

F19_Orheim
01-23-2004, 02:15 AM
Better?

Elem and Rajvosa, read arcadeace's post one more time. These threads would be half as long if people read the posts thoroughly. That should spare us from many flames as well.

http://www.gbg.bonet.se/bjorta/F19banner.jpg (http://www.f19vs.tk)

Spinne_3.-JG51
01-23-2004, 02:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rajvosa:
You're flattering youreslf, arcadeace! I play with full real as well, but i'd never try to imply I'm a "higher being" because of that. I enjoy Grand Prix Legends as much as FB (probably because it is way more realistic than any other driving game). I also like good old adventure games like Monkey Island. They're both funny and difficult. Max Payne 1 & 2 are both excellent games as well. My point being is that I'd never look down on anybody. It actually reminds me of nazis: we are the uber race, everything else is crap.



Golf GTI Edition 2.0 16v<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


By "cut above" I don't mean to imply we're better, to each his own. But its my impression as a community we always scrutinize with unending judgment to enhance our commitment, surpassing the remainder of the gaming community.


Read the post buddy!

http://www.student.richmond.edu/~vk5qa/images/forumsig.jpg

"Come on in, I'll treat you nice! I used to know your father."

Rajvosa
01-23-2004, 02:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by F19_Orheim:
Better?

Elem and Rajvosa, read arcadeace's post one more time. These threads would be half as long if people read the posts thoroughly. That should spare us from many flames as well.

http://www.f19vs.tk<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your point being what? I read it thoroughly once again and here is what I make of it:
We, the pople that play Il-2 on full difficulty are "better" than Quake players since the Il-2 is way more complex experience. I dissagree with that statement and don't meen to flame or troll or anything. It's called a discussion.
F¶rst¥r du, grabben? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



Golf GTI Edition 2.0 16v

Slush69
01-23-2004, 02:28 AM
We play a computer game. That's it.

It's a very human trait to try to distinguish oneself from others, to establish subgroups that are "a cut above/beside/beyond/whatever" of the rest. But really:

We play a computer game. That's it.

cheers/slush
(Of course that's just my opinion. If it gives you a sense of superiourity to call yourself a 'simmer' instead of a 'gamer', I really couldn't care less.)

http://www.wilcks.dk/crap/Eurotrolls.gif

Cajun76
01-23-2004, 02:39 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by GoodKn1ght:
unless you fly "arcade" then ur not really a "simmer."
[QUOTE]

Why would you only have to fly "arcade" to be a simmer? They are all sorts of simmers, from brand new pilots who have No Stalls and Spins on, to "Full Switch / Full Difficulty" (trademarked by BM357_Raven, I believe) where nothing is off, and they have even edited game files so that messages like "Radiatior Position" isn't even displayed. To each thier own.

As for simmers being a 'cut above'.....

I will have to narrow down this category to flight simmers to discuss it properly. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif FPSers do use strategy, cunning, and anticipation when playing, as well as the twitch/reflex component. Strategy gamers use cunning, tactics, and resource managment. But a flight simmer uses all of these, if they're doing it right. Some examples, and some of these are more than one thing. Your plane, fuel, engine and altitude are resources. Strategy involves what to do during initial engagement, like diving, climbing or turning and combinations of these. Cunning in anticipating the other guys moves, or taking the initiative and dictating the fight, even from an initial disadvantage.

Flight simmers use a great many skills. Just "flying" a virtual plane is beyond some people. Taking that pixel plane to it's coded limits is even harder. Factor in other people, trying to do the same thing, while each struggles to get a gun solution on the other, is not easy for many. Added to this is the investment in time and gear. Ive never heard of a FPSer spending the kinds of sums that very serious flight simmers have been known to.

Even having said all this, dedication is reqired for any serious gamer, so I don't mind throwing someone a S! for being good, whether they are playing a FPS, war strategy or FB (are there any other flight sims?). http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

And a note, at no time does arcadeace say anything like "We, the pople that play Il-2 on full difficulty are "better" than Quake players since the Il-2 is way more complex experience." http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif Where are you people getting this from? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif It's not a discussion if you're misquoting someone. Sheesh. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Good hunting,
Cajun76

F19_Orheim
01-23-2004, 02:43 AM
A first glance maybe but I took notice of his "I don't mean to imply we're better..." ... och ja, jag fattar grabben http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif Read it againhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://www.gbg.bonet.se/bjorta/F19banner.jpg (http://www.f19vs.tk)

SodBuster43
01-23-2004, 02:43 AM
You mean all this time I have been playing a computer game http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

I agree with one comment though, it does take more effort and skill to play with the most difficult settings. A minority of us are willing to make this commitment it seems. The run of the mill sim enthusiast just wants to unwind and blow things up.

arcadeace
01-23-2004, 02:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rajvosa:
You're flattering youreslf, arcadeace! I play with full real as well, but i'd never try to imply I'm a "higher being" because of that. I enjoy Grand Prix Legends as much as FB (probably because it is way more realistic than any other driving game). I also like good old adventure games like Monkey Island. They're both funny and difficult. Max Payne 1 & 2 are both excellent games as well. My point being is that I'd never look down on anybody. It actually reminds me of nazis: we are the uber race, everything else is crap.

Golf GTI Edition 2.0 16v<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've written the post looking for opinions, with an assumption in which I clearly stated my own limited flight sim experience. Maybe like tenmmike I can tend to be arrogent with respect to a lot of kids enjoying their Xbox but I don't think I'm a better human being. I've completely stayed away from other onling gaming FPS challenges, I'm ignorant in regards to their experience. Reddeath's experience is well put and considered, I immediatly learned.

It does seem your post is self-flattering. Implying I'm implying I'm a higher being is almost your 'higher' judment. "It actually reminds me of nazis: we are the uber race, everything else is crap," that's a huge extrapolation. Are you trying to get even, considering our last argument was a couple of days ago and you were rebuked for your anti-American bigotry, having a very hard time composing yourself?

Rajvosa
01-23-2004, 03:08 AM
Don't bring that up! I didn't back off because I felt "beaten" or something, it's just that I didn't feel there was a way to reach a common understanding. I thought we could have a nice, friendly discussion here, but with you, that dosen't seem to be possible. I sencerly hope I'm wrong, since my interest in this forum is purely aeronautical and Il-2 related. That I get involved in some of these less admirable discussions is unfortunate. Like I said I didn't mean to start a fight here, and if you wish so I will not post in this thread anymore, since this is sort of your thread, you started it.



Golf GTI Edition 2.0 16v

arcadeace
01-23-2004, 03:18 AM
"You're flattering youreslf, arcadeace! I play with full real as well, but i'd never try to imply I'm a "higher being" because of that." and "It actually reminds me of nazis: we are the uber race, everything else is crap".

"I thought we could have a nice, friendly discussion here, but with you, that dosen't seem to be possible." and "That I get involved in some of these less admirable discussions is unfortunate."

And you honestly don't know who or what makes them less than admirable?

Rajvosa
01-23-2004, 03:25 AM
Why, it's probably you! What do you want, an excuse? Allright!

Dearest Arcadeace!
I'm sencerely sorry for disagreeng with you on most subjects. I'm not joking! I hate conflicts. I'm getting married in a few months and the only subject that gets my fullest attention is my wife to be. Everything else is a means to make the time go faster until D-Day http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Hope I know what I'm doing! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif



Golf GTI Edition 2.0 16v

arcadeace
01-23-2004, 03:28 AM
I hope your wife to be does http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_222_1074803366.jpg

F19_Orheim
01-23-2004, 03:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rajvosa:
Don't bring that up! I didn't back off because I felt "beaten" or something, it's just that I didn't feel there was a way to reach a common understanding. I thought we could have a nice, friendly discussion here, but with you, that dosen't seem to be possible. I sencerly hope I'm wrong, since my interest in this forum is purely aeronautical and Il-2 related. That I get involved in some of these less admirable discussions is unfortunate. Like I said I didn't mean to start a fight here, and if you wish so I will not post in this thread anymore, since this is sort of your thread, you started it.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cool it guys.

Rajvosa, I think arcadeace reacted on your reference to nazis, and immediately thought you meant him. I am sure that that was not your intention, even though I can understand how that could be misunderstood. Keep it civil guys.

Let's get back to the topic please.

I certainly can understand that there need to be a lot of hours behind successful Counter Strike gamers. What I think is very unique with flight simmmers is the pure interest in aviation.

http://www.gbg.bonet.se/bjorta/F19banner.jpg (http://www.f19vs.tk)

Rajvosa
01-23-2004, 03:30 AM
Well, I think she will appreciate my not being such an a-hole, like you are.



Golf GTI Edition 2.0 16v

Tully__
01-23-2004, 03:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cajun76:
......Ive never heard of a FPSer spending the kinds of sums that very serious flight simmers have been known to.....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I have. Game pads, game voice commercial version, other extras the details of which I don't recall. There's more stuff designed to extract $$$ from fps gamers than there is for flight simmers. It's a bigger market after all http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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Salut
Tully

F19_Orheim
01-23-2004, 03:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rajvosa:
Well, I think she will appreciate my not being such an a-hole, like you are.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ohhh righty then... there went my objective for getting back to topic. See you guys. I suggest you two add eachother on MSN and keep your battles there instead. I for sure do not enjoy rudeness and namecallings. This is NOT what this forum is for. Please show some respect for other members of this forum.

http://www.gbg.bonet.se/bjorta/F19banner.jpg (http://www.f19vs.tk)

Tully__
01-23-2004, 03:35 AM
Wow, having read the rest of the thread, all I can say is "Aren't we sensitive today http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif".

Must be full moon (or something... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif )

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Salut
Tully

arcadeace
01-23-2004, 03:47 AM
O.k.. Congratulations on your up and coming wedding. And remember, if you want your marriage to succeed, "a nice, friendly discussion" with your wife will require constant dedication. No little boy temper tantrums...and of course...sanity.

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_222_1074803366.jpg

Rajvosa
01-23-2004, 03:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by F19_Orheim:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rajvosa:
Well, I think she will appreciate my not being such an a-hole, like you are.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ohhh righty then... there went my objective for getting back to topic. See you guys. I suggest you two add eachother on MSN and keep your battles there instead. I for sure do not enjoy rudeness and namecallings. This is NOT what this forum is for. Please show some respect for other members of this forum.

http://www.f19vs.tk<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Det h¤r andra kukhuvet (du vet vem jag menar) verkar ha n¥t emot mig. M¥ste j¤klas med mig oavsett vad vi talar om. Det ¤r klart man blir f¶rbannad och s¤ger ett och annat. Du ser ju sj¤lv vem som driver detta vidare. S¥ fort jag f¶rs¶ker av****a, s¥ kommer han med n¤sta spydig kommentar. Det ¤r sv¥rt nog att h¥lla sig ifr¥n att s¤ga ett och annat tillbaka.



Golf GTI Edition 2.0 16v

nixon-fiend.
01-23-2004, 03:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GoodKn1ght:
unless you fly "arcade" then ur not really a "simmer."

"Friends don't let friends fly arcade"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I got totally flamed in another thread for suggesting that this guy was disillusioned elitist, hellbent on broadcasting his FR superiority.. But here it shines through again..

I just detest this kind of putting down sentiment... The inference is clear.

I sometimes fly with externals on, it's a game.. It's a choice.

Proberton
01-23-2004, 03:49 AM
You obviously haven't spent any time with professional counter strike players. My friend is aiming to making a living out of online clan based competitions. The level of skill and commitment to training needed to compete at the top level is extremely high. You also have to be a very good thinker and team player to be good at the game. As you would expect when competing against other human players

Rajvosa
01-23-2004, 03:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by arcadeace:
O.k.. Congratulations on your up and coming wedding. And remember, if you want your marriage to succeed, "a nice, friendly discussion" with your wife will require constant dedication. No little boy temper tantrums...and of course...sanity.

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_222_1074803366.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you Ace!

I'll try to temper my "little boy temper" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif



Golf GTI Edition 2.0 16v

arcadeace
01-23-2004, 03:56 AM
Let her spank you once in a while, some soap in the mouth too. Better yet pure bleach. A weekly flush should do wonders Raj.

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_222_1074803366.jpg

Rajvosa
01-23-2004, 03:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by arcadeace:
Let her spank you once in a while, some soap in the mouth too. Better yet pure bleach. A weekly flush should do wonders Raj.

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_222_1074803366.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ouch! I mean the soap bit http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

What really worries me is that she will take away precious time from Il-2. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif



Golf GTI Edition 2.0 16v

F19_Orheim
01-23-2004, 04:00 AM
arcadeace...


You got the final word..... let it be, be happy and chill!!!

private topic Raj

http://www.gbg.bonet.se/bjorta/F19banner.jpg (http://www.f19vs.tk)

arcadeace
01-23-2004, 04:03 AM
Don't let her take your precious time away from the forum. We all have needs.

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_222_1074803366.jpg

WUAF_Badsight
01-23-2004, 04:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RedDeth:
all games online are tough if you play against the best. play unreal tournament online on a pro server and you will never get one kill. those games require about 50 times quicker reflexes than FB. flying fb after UT youll feel like your in quicksand and the movie is in slow motion. is a sim a cut above? no. you get owned in any game you dont master. if you want the definition of a great gamer or simmer its someone that can master 3 or more games simultaneously. trust me its not easy unless your unemployed and live at home <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


omg that so is the point

i couldnt have put it any better at all

i will say this tho ....... FB players do seem to have a great interest in the specs & history of the planes we use

Cajun76
01-23-2004, 06:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tully__:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cajun76:
......Ive never heard of a FPSer spending the kinds of sums that very serious flight simmers have been known to.....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I have. Game pads, game voice commercial version, other extras the details of which I don't recall. There's more stuff designed to extract $$$ from fps gamers than there is for flight simmers. It's a bigger market after all http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

=================================================
Salut
Tully<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, between what you and RedDeath are saying, I suppose there are some extreme examples for FPSers. There's always an exception. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif But I was thinking along the lines of this: Almost identical gaming rigs, with vioce chat, huge moniter (maybe 3) and the works. You can FPS with this very well. Now, add a Cougar, tricked to the max, rudder pedals, TrackIR, 3D glasses, and a custom cockpit in your basement, with all kinds of goodies. I can't see the FPS boys using all that. Then agian, most of us don't either. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

nixon-fiend, if others wish to bury their heads, let them. And I've seen a JG5(?)_Goudnyte, or someone along those lines in "arcade" servers. GoodKn1ght should perform an intervention of the poor chap. "Friends don't let friends fly arcade" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

Good hunting,
Cajun76

CRSutton
01-23-2004, 07:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by arcadeace:
Currently the only game I play is FB and sim enthusiasts are definitely in the minority, games like Lock-On, FB etc. will never be best sellers. Play Station and XBox players are the main stream and PC first person shooter types are much more popular.

My premise is since we demand more realism for the intended challenge, the raw experience needed to achieve adequate skill and thrill requires more disciplined patience, and a higher learning curve developed over months of continuous commitment.

We are a niche. So much so some are intimidated to even try. Generally we have a higher level of interest in associated historical knowledge with many enjoying true facts and particulars simple and complex, sometimes resulting in a higher level of immersion. From my knowledge even the amount of possible accessories, not to mention cost, is second to none.

By "cut above" I don't mean to imply we're better, to each his own. But its my impression as a community we always scrutinize with unending judgment to enhance our commitment, surpassing the remainder of the gaming community.

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_222_1074803366.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Sorry bud, It's just a game. A great one, but just a game all the same.

Cajun76
01-23-2004, 08:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CRSutton:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by arcadeace:
Currently the only game I play is FB and sim enthusiasts are definitely in the minority, games like Lock-On, FB etc. will never be best sellers.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Sorry bud, It's just a game. A great one, but just a game all the same.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Eh, I don't know which post you're reading, but he states it's a game in the very first sentence. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

Good hunting,
Cajun76

F19_Ob
01-23-2004, 08:49 AM
To have the arcade mode in fb is probably a genious idea.

I also get the feeling that many of us serious http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif fb simmers are very interrested in the historical aspects, aerodynamics, engines, guns and all kinds of other subinterrests that comes with it.

But I bet my head on that there are many who gain these "deeper" interests through the arcademode and for them it is just another cool game. With time they discover these other things and maybe even enjoy to participate in the discussions on the board.

so I belive that for fb and all the "serious"http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif simmers these arcadepeople are very important, perhaps it is bcause of the arcaders that we have fb?

TooCooL34
01-23-2004, 09:59 AM
FB is king of computer entertainment.
Believe me. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Uhh, what was the message? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

TacticalSkirmsh
01-23-2004, 10:21 AM
I do know from personal experience, having played a variety of games, that for a newbie combat aviation is certainly a challenge.

There is so much to learn. In IL-2FB, just taking a look at all the possible commands to program certainly does not compare with any games that I personally know.

Then there is the application of aviation theory and terminology. Again, if this is all new to the gamer it is really overwhelming at first. Complex engine management is certainly part of what I am thinking about.

Then there's all the tactics for combat.

I can agree that there are many levels of complexity to this game (and similar games like it) that indeed set it apart. I believe there is a deeper satisfaction for those who can master this type of gaming. Added to this of course is a perceived older gaming community who does take it very seriously.

The other valid point is that practically any game/genre takes skill and committment to excel.

In one particular RTS game, that I still enjoy playing online, I read the strategy book, practiced and practiced, and developed various tactics for various maps. I became very skillful and a tough opponent to beat.

Notwithstanding my experience with strategy gaming (which I still enjoy a lot), this combat flight sim is certainly harder to master.

My 2 cents folks!

Regards

Cossack_UA
01-23-2004, 11:04 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by arcadeace:
Currently the only game I play is FB and sim enthusiasts are definitely in the minority, games like Lock-On, FB etc. will never be best sellers. Play Station and XBox players are the main stream and PC first person shooter types are much more popular.

My premise is since we demand more realism for the intended challenge, the raw experience needed to achieve adequate skill and thrill requires more disciplined patience, and a higher learning curve developed over months of continuous commitment.

We are a niche. So much so some are intimidated to even try. Generally we have a higher level of interest in associated historical knowledge with many enjoying true facts and particulars simple and complex, sometimes resulting in a higher level of immersion. From my knowledge even the amount of possible accessories, not to mention cost, is second to none.

By "cut above" I don't mean to imply we're better, to each his own. But its my impression as a community we always scrutinize with unending judgment to enhance our commitment, surpassing the remainder of the gaming community.

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_222_1074803366.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you think that FB and LOCKON ( dont get me wrong, i love both of the games!) are the only simulations that require a lot of training, knowledge, and commitment, try raicing agains a good driver in F1 2002. I mean if you set everythig to full real. Not only you gotta learn how each individual car behaves on each particular circuite, but also you gotta learn haw to set you suspention, you entine and so on right. Believe me it is much more complex than managing prop pitch, mix, and trim.

And if you'll try a mod for F1 2002 by SimBin called GRT youll be amazed how realistic each car drives and how much skill it required to drive it.

XyZspineZyX
01-23-2004, 11:05 AM
Rajvosa wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I'm sencerely sorry for disagreeng with you on most subjects. I'm not joking! I hate conflicts.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Buddy, if you truly "hate conflict", then don't bother getting married. It's great, don't get me wrong. But to say that it doesn't involve conflict ... not to mention a lot of HARD WORK ... is to be looking VERY optimistically and unrealistically at it.

XyZspineZyX
01-23-2004, 11:10 AM
But back on topic....

It is patently *obvious* that a simmer is "superior" to a FPS player.

Not to say that XBox'ers and FPS players don't have their own skillset...it takes dexterity and imagination to be good at it.

But, often, they are not bound by trying to make their experience mimic anything that is or was real. Because they're not simulating anything, they can cut corners, and their only goal is to make things "fun".

It wasn't until a few years ago that FPS games even stopped "bounding around" with 20 meter high/long jumps and walking over "energy renewal packs". Only recently have they even tried to make the in-game characters behave like "humans carrying heavy equipment and with only one life".

So, yes, flight simmers are "superior" to gamers from OUR perspective that we are *simulating* something AND gaming, while they are only gaming.

Then, of course, we flight simmers have our own pecking order, which includes those who want the full challenge, and those who play "arcade".

[This message was edited by Stiglr on Fri January 23 2004 at 11:01 AM.]

J30Vader
01-23-2004, 11:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tully__:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cajun76:
......Ive never heard of a FPSer spending the kinds of sums that very serious flight simmers have been known to.....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I have. Game pads, game voice commercial version, other extras the details of which I don't recall. There's more stuff designed to extract $$$ from fps gamers than there is for flight simmers. It's a bigger market after all http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Anyone remember the Razor mouse? Designed just for the FPS, it cost as much or more than an X-45. Or the Fragmaster?

Then there was Punkbuster. You and the server had to have it. I liked that software. Someone TKed you, you could kick them off the server for thirty minutes. IIRC there were provisions to auto kick people for language too.

If only FB had something like that.

Bearcat99
01-23-2004, 12:03 PM
Anything that will motivate me to dive headlong into historical and engineering references, hold my attention at an ever increasing rate, prompt me to spend hours learning to use it and spend hundreds of $$ upgrading my computer so I can run it better qualifies as more than a game in my book. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>http://www.jodavidsmeyer.com/combat/bookstore/tuskegeebondposter.jpg (http://tuskegeeairmen.org/airmen/who.html)[/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>vflyer@comcast.net [/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>99thPursuit Squadron IL2 Forgotten Battles (http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat)[/list]
UDQMG (http://www.uberdemon.com/index2.html) | HYPERLOBBY (http://hyperfighter.jinak.cz/) | IL2 Manager (http://www.checksix-fr.com/bibliotheque/detail_fichier.php?ID=1353) | MUDMOVERS (http://www.mudmovers.com/)

tagert
01-23-2004, 12:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by arcadeace:
Currently the only game I play is FB and sim enthusiasts are definitely in the minority, games like Lock-On, FB etc. will never be best sellers. Play Station and XBox players are the main stream and PC first person shooter types are much more popular.

My premise is since we demand more realism for the intended challenge, the raw experience needed to achieve adequate skill and thrill requires more disciplined patience, and a higher learning curve developed over months of continuous commitment.

We are a niche. So much so some are intimidated to even try. Generally we have a higher level of interest in associated historical knowledge with many enjoying true facts and particulars simple and complex, sometimes resulting in a higher level of immersion. From my knowledge even the amount of possible accessories, not to mention cost, is second to none.

By "cut above" I don't mean to imply we're better, to each his own. But its my impression as a community we always scrutinize with unending judgment to enhance our commitment, surpassing the remainder of the gaming community.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Agreed 100%

TAGERT

[Gypsy]
01-23-2004, 01:32 PM
Amen Bearcat...

"Gypsy"

310th FS/380th BG Opps Officer
CO 310th FS Bravo Wing

http://imageshack.us/files/Gypsy%20Sig2.jpg

Black Sheep
01-23-2004, 01:51 PM
Hmmm, my personal view is any game genre that entertains its users is a worthwhile pastime... I've been into sims since the release of EF2000 back in what, 94, 95, yet still thoroughly enjoy games like Vice City, Resident Evil etc. I also work in the games industry and love it to bits.

As for spending and dedication, yes, sims probably top the list - but not combat sims. The highest spending player of IL2 isn't going to come anywhere near the most dedicated of MS Flight Sim users. Same goes, in my view, the dedication to really fly most of these birds - items like PMDG's 737NG series require big investments of time to learn thoroughly. Add in real (online) controllers and etc and you're talking years.

This doesn't, however, mean that FS users are better than FB pilots, just.... different. Same as the relationship between games like FB and the aforementioned FPS's, racing games... and console games.

Just my two penneth.

arcadeace
01-23-2004, 02:40 PM
Yeah, its up to the individual to derive depth of entertainment, whatever the game. I thought auto racing was a blast but after every game I felt like I drank a few cups of coffee, my nerves couldn't handle it.

I have X-Plane still on my drive and on occasion I will fly it with enjoyment. I didn't mean flight simming exclusive to CFS, although with my love for FB it was my main emphasis. As another poster described it well, we are simulating reality and the dedication to perfect flight seems never ending. I hope the joy will never end.

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_222_1074803366.jpg

Black Sheep
01-23-2004, 02:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by arcadeace:
I hope the joy will never end.

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_222_1074803366.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Absolutely.

I got into sims because I've been fascinated by all forms of flight since I was a kid. I can't afford the outlay to fly in real life, besides which there are some kinds of simulation that cover things no one could do irl anyway - such as fly combat missions on the Eastern Front circa 1944.

Here's to sims, long may they continue to be made http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

&lt;IMG SRC=http://mysite.freeserve.com/moo_cows_sigs/images/hurri2.jpg

SeaFireLIV
01-23-2004, 03:04 PM
Well, I have a thing about avoiding pomposity...

But hell, we`re better than them all!

SeaFireLIV...
Slowly mutating into a Hurricane Ordnance Whiner...
http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/littlelaff.jpg

WUAF_Badsight
01-23-2004, 04:08 PM
this has to be the most defining answer



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RedDeth:
all games online are tough if you play against the best. play unreal tournament online on a pro server and you will never get one kill. those games require about 50 times quicker reflexes than FB. flying fb after UT youll feel like your in quicksand and the movie is in slow motion. is a sim a cut above? no. you get owned in any game you dont master. UT has just as many techniques and tactics as FB does. if you want the definition of a great gamer or simmer its someone that can master 3 or more games simultaneously. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


we play a slow moving game that doesnt require as great a reaction skill to play as other games

their is other games with more strategy required

their is other games with more knowledge required