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View Full Version : Why go backwards gameplaywise?



ArielSira
02-21-2015, 12:31 AM
So many things we've had since as early as AC2 but for some reason are absent from ACU. My rant list:

- Whistling; very neat in the past few games. In ACU not only are you unable to make noise to lure guards, most guards don't even come near hiding places.

- Instant kills with smokebombs; normally when you'd use a smokebomb you would just stab guards with the hidden blades...now I still have to hit them 2-3 times with my sword. I know that it's still doable if I throw the bomb before getting into combat but...why? It just makes the combat drag for no reason.

- Multiple save slots; I have to relocate my files to start a new game? Wth.

- Skills unlock late; I can't stress how much it annoys me that I have to walk all over Paris multiple times and come across tons of red chests I can't open because I haven't finished chapter 9 yet. As my game keeps crashing when fighting a certain someone in sequence 7.3, I can't advance. Why couldn't it *just* be skillpoints to unlock abilities? Or why not make it a skill you get better at by doing it (such as in TES: Oblivion)? You're just again dragging the game for the wrong reason by forcing us to go back late in the game (when getting some money from chests is irrelevant anyway). Also: chest overkill.

- Double Assassination: this thing fails so many times. In pas AC games when the guards were a bit too far, you'd slide in a way that you could still kill them at the same time. Now it's the opposite; I can't remember now many times I wanted to kill two guards at the same time but only killed one.


If these things were included as before, and the crashes would have been gone, this would have been a nice addition to the AC franchise. As of now it's the only one I can't even finish and thinking of the tons of sidestuff it makes me hesitant to play it again (coming from someone who played and finished nearly all AC games at least 4/5 times).

ACE7492
02-22-2015, 05:03 AM
Very well said. I agree with everything here. I would also add, no timer should be on eagle vision. Maybe Arno isn't as good as the other assassins who didn't need a cool down on that skill. The game makes it looks like he really has to focus to use it unlike all the others who seem to do it at will.

playlisting
02-22-2015, 07:30 AM
Very well said. I agree with everything here. I would also add, no timer should be on eagle vision. Maybe Arno isn't as good as the other assassins who didn't need a cool down on that skill. The game makes it looks like he really has to focus to use it unlike all the others who seem to do it at will.

Agreed. It doesn't make sense to have a timer because those who have EV have it due to their genes that link back to the first civ. They should be able to do it for however long they want to as per all previous Assassin's Creeds.

On another note they need to get shot of the whole 'paying for skills' thing completely. Micro-transactions should be eliminated too (it's a full price game for crying out loud. How greedy can you get?) Only one currency and nothing else. None of that helix points or sync points BS. Allow us to recruit people to the brotherhood as per ACB - AC3. Make the game completely self-contained, no content is locked behind anything. And for the love of God Ubisoft, optimise this one for ALL systems. Don't repeat Unity.

VoldR
02-22-2015, 08:42 AM
Agreed. It doesn't make sense to have a timer because those who have EV have it due to their genes that link back to the first civ. They should be able to do it for however long they want to as per all previous Assassin's Creeds.

About EV, didn't realise got timer. May not notice even if I played, as I don't bother with it... Even in old games..
But I like the idea, I think people abuse it and yes I think even for story reason. Special abilities like these should be effort required... They're not machines that can on and off or like mutants that cant off it without control.

Especially when new to it. The more they use "more exp" then should last longer if not non-stop lost control... :D

YazX_
02-22-2015, 11:49 AM
Agreed and also would like to add the lack of chain kills and boring combat system ported from AC1. however, IMO the whole skills system doesnt fit with this series since all skills are essential and necessary, simply cannot be locked as it breaks game mechanics or at least breaks what we have been used to in the past 7 games.

VoldR
02-22-2015, 12:00 PM
What I would like for skill system is have side missions or main mossions to "learn" those skills.
Rather then point system and make it story related.

YazX_
02-22-2015, 12:09 PM
What I would like for skill system is have side missions or main mossions to "learn" those skills.
Rather then point system and make it story related.

Excellent way, as long as there is no points system and you can unlock them anytime then this seems a great way to do so.

playlisting
02-22-2015, 06:28 PM
Agreed and also would like to add the lack of chain kills and boring combat system ported from AC1. however, IMO the whole skills system doesnt fit with this series since all skills are essential and necessary, simply cannot be locked as it breaks game mechanics or at least breaks what we have been used to in the past 7 games.

It feels like they locked those skills up just for the hell of it. I shouldn't have to spend anything to be able to sit on a bench or blend with a crowd. It's plain silly.

I disagree on the combat. It's much slower now and more challenging. Countering actually takes timing. I prefer it to the combat of AC3/4 where you can slaughter guards by the hundreds. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1x3RjtMPAU)

ACE7492
02-22-2015, 07:49 PM
Hey I think a lot of people agree that combat was a bit too easy in 3 and 4, I totally agree. But it worked at its core. Unity's combat is slow and sluggish, yes it is harder and I get what they are trying to accomplish, but the function of combat is broken in this game. I think combat should be difficult but also sharp and precise. It just feels too sluggish. And all the difficulty is taken out of the combat system with a simple smoke bomb. If combat was sharp with no delays I think a lot of people would like it more.

I still find myself playing defense and waiting for them to strike so I can parry, so it isn't that much different apart from the fact that the parry response is slower and it takes more hits to kill the guys.


What gets me so worked up about this game is they had so many templates for success, and they already have a database full of knowledge of what we as players like and dislike about their games. And they ignored it . I Liked the idea to add armors and weapons and points to special skills like group heal or cache or disguise. But not to core assassin skills, I mean really sitting quietly without drawing attention to blend in should not be a skill you need to train.

VoldR
02-23-2015, 11:09 AM
Excellent way, as long as there is no points system and you can unlock them anytime then this seems a great way to do so.

Or make it the way u accomplish a mission u'll get a certain skill. Say opening a lock chest.
U can either choose to grab the tools "picks" or a heavy object or crowbar nearby and open it..

If u choose picks ur stealthier but slower like haythem / connor
bashing it will make noise but quicker like Edward Kenway

If

wichking
02-23-2015, 03:56 PM
why noone likes the unity combat. it is great. sometimes its bit buggy i agree and lacks abit of possibilities like throw guards. The combat at all is good in its way. Its harder and gets more easy as you progress. no man escpeailly an assassin should be able to slash through hordes. besides that its still possible if you have enough smoke bombs or flash bombs. Just use your tools in order to win. Stealth should be the easier way since its the core of assassins creed.
I just dont like that you cant whistle and push and throw guards. Also i dont like the creed points system. It kinda encourages you to kill in open comabt sicne stealth kills gve you almost nothing. besides that non lethal kills give you nothing.... i hope it gets removed. About the skill point system.. well i agree that lock picking was bit ******ed. I would love to have the chance to upgrade it when i want to as with the other skills. Ubi should add special missions to it to train them which unlock after another.


overall i think Ubisoft removes stuff just in order to implement it back and say: this game is better now. if we compare Ac 3 and AC4 for example. Comabt is almost similar but Ac3 had abit better mechanics like jägers could only be charged with parry and disarm while in ac4 you only have to press parry.. same about the fist fights. in Ac4 they are just to easy. and what we see? in rogue the fist fights seem to be abck at Ac 3 basis.
Snow is removed aswell. on a future ac it will be then again a revolutionary feature...
This game branche evolves and goes always some steps back sadly. Every game of AC was not a total improvement over the last.

YazX_
02-23-2015, 04:24 PM
why noone likes the unity combat. it is great. sometimes its bit buggy i agree and lacks abit of possibilities like throw guards. The combat at all is good in its way. Its harder and gets more easy as you progress. no man escpeailly an assassin should be able to slash through hordes. besides that its still possible if you have enough smoke bombs or flash bombs. Just use your tools in order to win. Stealth should be the easier way since its the core of assassins creed.
I just dont like that you cant whistle and push and throw guards. Also i dont like the creed points system. It kinda encourages you to kill in open comabt sicne stealth kills gve you almost nothing. besides that non lethal kills give you nothing.... i hope it gets removed. About the skill point system.. well i agree that lock picking was bit ******ed. I would love to have the chance to upgrade it when i want to as with the other skills. Ubi should add special missions to it to train them which unlock after another.


overall i think Ubisoft removes stuff just in order to implement it back and say: this game is better now. if we compare Ac 3 and AC4 for example. Comabt is almost similar but Ac3 had abit better mechanics like jägers could only be charged with parry and disarm while in ac4 you only have to press parry.. same about the fist fights. in Ac4 they are just to easy. and what we see? in rogue the fist fights seem to be abck at Ac 3 basis.
Snow is removed aswell. on a future ac it will be then again a revolutionary feature...
This game branche evolves and goes always some steps back sadly. Every game of AC was not a total improvement over the last.

your basing your opinion on stealth fact which is not necessary true , AC is not pure stealth game, people would like to believe so, the way this series is built since AC1 is based on your combat skills, yes there is some stealth for certain extent and Ubisoft kept evolving this aspect of the game for people who like stealth, now getting to the part on why people dont like this new combat system is the simple fact "its not a stealth game" , for the past 7 games, we are used to jump in kill everyone and get out, even in AC1 which had similar combat system to ACU, you can notice this by MOST of missions in previous games when you had to kill someone and then all of the guards turn against you, if you didnt have fast paced combat system then it would make the game impossible to enjoy.

now with ACU, this game is forcing you to be stealthy by adding more mechanics to stealth aspect and removing most of good things in combat, thus people who dont like stealth and playing like before are getting so much frustrated by that, the system is flawed COMPARED to what we have been used to, this combat system is nothing new, its the same as AC1 but with guns, though you have smoke bombs and other tools to overcome that.

however, combat system has been greatly evolving since AC1 based on community feedback as the vast majority of the community found it too slow and time consuming for a game like AC, when Ubisoft introduced chain kills in ACB, it was great new thing and got alot of positive feedback from the community, hence Ubisoft kept building on that system. Now AC3 changed some mechanics but the core thing is kept the same, some people started to complain about how easy the new system was although its almost the same as previous games but i can tell you its not the system itself rather new people are jumping into the series and asking for challenging combat.

ACE7492
02-23-2015, 04:30 PM
wichking said "This game branch evolves and goes always some steps back sadly. Every game of AC was not a total improvement over the last"



I agree that each game has its own high and low points. But in my opinion, no assassins creed game to date including the first one, had as many low points as Unity. That being said, Unity does do some things right or better, but in many ways it is a giant step backwards. Fans of this series expect quality, not quantity. But we got a lot of unfinished, unpolished, broken, half done, and incomplete things in this games release, and after 5 patches its just now beginning to look like the game I had hoped for. I don't think AC fans should settle for less, and reading these forums proves it. It's up to us to let them know what we want, and after seeing some of the changes implemented just through patches, like removing app restrictions, opening up some gear, and making changes we are asking for, they are listening. Better late than never.

wichking
02-23-2015, 05:02 PM
your basing your opinion on stealth fact which is not necessary true , AC is not pure stealth game, people would like to believe so, the way this series is built since AC1 is based on your combat skills, yes there is some stealth for certain extent and Ubisoft kept evolving this aspect of the game for people who like stealth, now getting to the part on why people dont like this new combat system is the simple fact "its not a stealth game" , for the past 7 games, we are used to jump in kill everyone and get out, even in AC1 which had similar combat system to ACU, you can notice this by MOST of missions in previous games when you had to kill someone and then all of the guards turn against you, if you didnt have fast paced combat system then it would make the game impossible to enjoy.

now with ACU, this game is forcing you to be stealthy by adding more mechanics to stealth aspect and removing most of good things in combat, thus people who dont like stealth and playing like before are getting so much frustrated by that, the system is flawed COMPARED to what we have been used to, this combat system is nothing new, its the same as AC1 but with guns, though you have smoke bombs and other tools to overcome that.

however, combat system has been greatly evolving since AC1 based on community feedback as the vast majority of the community found it too slow and time consuming for a game like AC, when Ubisoft introduced chain kills in ACB, it was great new thing and got alot of positive feedback from the community, hence Ubisoft kept building on that system. Now AC3 changed some mechanics but the core thing is kept the same, some people started to complain about how easy the new system was although its almost the same as previous games but i can tell you its not the system itself rather new people are jumping into the series and asking for challenging combat.

Well i i get your point but such gameplay never fittet for assassins creed. I mean the title says Assassins. So we should play liek an assassin. i dont see a bad point to force ppl to be stealthy. Besides that unity doesnt force you to go stealthy in total. if you keep using your tools you can finish every mission the hard way. most ppl ar ejust used to take one weapon and parry and coutnerkill anything that tries to hit. I never liekd this game principe and tried to avoid it. Only plus of it was it looked fancy and badass to see all those moves. But the game should try to keep on its initial course and try to encourage stealth, Yes Unity stealth is abit... unrefined. But thats the point. it has to evolve abit to be better. its their first try to make it really stealthy.

The fight mechanic is based on Ac 1 ye but Ac1 was also bit more challenging then the upcomming games. guards could even break your defence. after ac1 no guard could ever break your defence. You just stay and wait them to strike you. some ppl maybe have fun with this easy peasy mode but well lets do the favor for both ppl and make a difficulty setting. Like that everyone is kidna happy. I would love to see the game become more assassin like instead of a one man army.

YazX_
02-23-2015, 05:24 PM
Well i i get your point but such gameplay never fittet for assassins creed. I mean the title says Assassins. So we should play liek an assassin. i dont see a bad point to force ppl to be stealthy. Besides that unity doesnt force you to go stealthy in total. if you keep using your tools you can finish every mission the hard way. most ppl ar ejust used to take one weapon and parry and coutnerkill anything that tries to hit. I never liekd this game principe and tried to avoid it. Only plus of it was it looked fancy and badass to see all those moves. But the game should try to keep on its initial course and try to encourage stealth, Yes Unity stealth is abit... unrefined. But thats the point. it has to evolve abit to be better. its their first try to make it really stealthy.

The fight mechanic is based on Ac 1 ye but Ac1 was also bit more challenging then the upcomming games. guards could even break your defence. after ac1 no guard could ever break your defence. You just stay and wait them to strike you. some ppl maybe have fun with this easy peasy mode but well lets do the favor for both ppl and make a difficulty setting. Like that everyone is kidna happy. I would love to see the game become more assassin like instead of a one man army.

but the game is not based on stealth, that is, if this is the first game in the series, yes it would be based on this concept, but after 7 games changing all core mechanics to force stealth is not right, yes im happy that stealth fans finally got what they are asking for but what about the rest which is the vast majority?!

IMO the game should gave the player the option to enable/disable chain kills and shield or a difficulty option which enable/disables these mechanics, then it would be perfectly fine and everyone can play the way he wants or used to.

According to break defense, sorry but in all AC games there is some guy who can break your defense, (forgot the names of those guys) in AC2 there was those with long weapons who can hit you on your legs and you fall down , also those who throw sand into your eyes and guys with the yellow armor and heavy weapons, in ACB had the same, in ACR there was the janissaries who counter and strike when attacked and only a multiple counters would kill them, so if you are jumped with group of them you will not survive the fight without using bombs. after that in AC3 and later there is no defense, so there are several enemies who cannot be attacked and you have to counter then attack. but yes i will not deny the AI fact as there is a huge delay between attacks.

wichking
02-23-2015, 06:10 PM
but the game is not based on stealth, that is, if this is the first game in the series, yes it would be based on this concept, but after 7 games changing all core mechanics to force stealth is not right, yes im happy that stealth fans finally got what they are asking for but what about the rest which is the vast majority?!

IMO the game should gave the player the option to enable/disable chain kills and shield or a difficulty option which enable/disables these mechanics, then it would be perfectly fine and everyone can play the way he wants or used to.

According to break defense, sorry but in all AC games there is some guy who can break your defense, (forgot the names of those guys) in AC2 there was those with long weapons who can hit you on your legs and you fall down , also those who throw sand into your eyes and guys with the yellow armor and heavy weapons, in ACB had the same, in ACR there was the janissaries who counter and strike when attacked and only a multiple counters would kill them, so if you are jumped with group of them you will not survive the fight without using bombs. after that in AC3 and later there is no defense, so there are several enemies who cannot be attacked and you have to counter then attack. but yes i will not deny the AI fact as there is a huge delay between attacks.

i would be fine with this difficullty toggle on off stuff, Everyone would be happy

about the defence break ok you are right but its not like in AC1. in Ac 1 they break defence and make an attack which you can only dodge by dodging immidtaly(jump back) in ac 2 the spear soldiers could knock you down but thats all you stand up and can press defence and nothing happens. The golden brutes had one heavy attack but that attack could be blocked. it just disbaled your sword and after it you can just block with your hands everything. AC B you had the same with sand and the spear guys. only diffrence was heavy weapons couldnt be blocked by normal attacks. but i dont count it as a defence break, ok the only defence break that really denied your parry were the janissary. when they hit ya in the balls.


to the fact that the majority prefers easy mode.. well i dont know it it the majority. Most ppl sicne ACB complained about the chainkills and the easyness. i dont mind keeping the comabt similar to Ac3 but you need to encourage ppl to use their tools and that you can kill guards not always the same way. Ac4 just simplified AC3 combat and made you took mroe dmg. if they would keep ac3 combat and increase dmg dealt it would be more fun. ( oh and remove the human shield ofc and make the rifles of the enemy more accurate)
to human shield every guard out of nowhere is just wrong. if you would need to disable him first so he is in a unsecure position or shocked by a counter it would be awesome. besides that smokebobms and rolls prevent bullets pretty easy

YazX_
02-23-2015, 09:30 PM
i would be fine with this difficullty toggle on off stuff, Everyone would be happy

about the defence break ok you are right but its not like in AC1. in Ac 1 they break defence and make an attack which you can only dodge by dodging immidtaly(jump back) in ac 2 the spear soldiers could knock you down but thats all you stand up and can press defence and nothing happens. The golden brutes had one heavy attack but that attack could be blocked. it just disbaled your sword and after it you can just block with your hands everything. AC B you had the same with sand and the spear guys. only diffrence was heavy weapons couldnt be blocked by normal attacks. but i dont count it as a defence break, ok the only defence break that really denied your parry were the janissary. when they hit ya in the balls.


to the fact that the majority prefers easy mode.. well i dont know it it the majority. Most ppl sicne ACB complained about the chainkills and the easyness. i dont mind keeping the comabt similar to Ac3 but you need to encourage ppl to use their tools and that you can kill guards not always the same way. Ac4 just simplified AC3 combat and made you took mroe dmg. if they would keep ac3 combat and increase dmg dealt it would be more fun. ( oh and remove the human shield ofc and make the rifles of the enemy more accurate)
to human shield every guard out of nowhere is just wrong. if you would need to disable him first so he is in a unsecure position or shocked by a counter it would be awesome. besides that smokebobms and rolls prevent bullets pretty easy

i dont know man, if we keep talking about this we will not reach a resolution since you are a fan of stealth and i'm a fan of one man army, but at least we both agree that there should be some difficulty or combat options to please everyone.

strigoi1958
02-24-2015, 01:07 AM
Unity has both hence the Heists for stealth making the rewards greater for being undetected and the missions earn points with more kills.... it is designed to appeal to both sets of players or me ... as I enjoy both... sneaking (I've earned millions from being undetected on a huge number of heists... ) and a lot of creed points by running riot through the missions killing everyone... and their friends... family lol

I find my own difficulty by killing in a particular way... now there is no whistle it is very difficult to get guards near hiding spots... so I try to kill as many as I can that way... or I might try to air assassinate as many as possible... (you can air assassinate even if you are just on 1 step above a guard or on a table) or you can make it easy with smoke bombs and hidden blade or berserk and poison gas...:D

Unity does supply lots of options which adds to the variety of gameplay.