PDA

View Full Version : Salvaging AC Victory [necessary steps for a potentially brighter future]



JustPlainQuirky
02-20-2015, 04:36 AM
Many concluded in my previous AC Victory Transmedia thread (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1013321-Chances-of-content-locked-behind-transmedia-in-Victory) that transmedia that locks in-game content behind it will be dropped in AC Victory.

Under this presumption, I would like to speculate the potential quality of the next installment 'Victory' and why I feel it has potential for being a solid AC game.

Now for those who read my AC Unity review (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/974979-Breaking-Assassin-s-Creed-Unity-Apart-In-depth-Analysis-Review-Spoilers-Ahoy-Forums), you know my biggest gripes with the game was the transmedia and the story. Well, the transmedia is no longer a necessity now so the game just got 50% less tedious. This mainly leaves the story which differs in quality game to game regardless of the number of developers behind it. So basically it's ever-changing for better or for worse. Which also means there's no guarantee it will be lackluster again and it might actually be good.

With that it mind, this means (assuming Victory drops transmedia) one major annoyance from the previous installment will be gone and the other annoyance has a 50% chance of not being a problem at all.

So where does that leave us?

To the small hindrances, really. Would I say nitpicks? No, because some of these lesser annoying but notable design choices still arguably hinder the gameplay experience (at least in my personal opinion).

So basically here is a list of small changes I feel Victory needs in order to realize its full potential as an AC game. I have a thousand more preferences and ideas I would gladly include but those are just, as I said, preferences. What I list below are IMO necessary changes to make the game generally more enjoyable to the majority.

Follow along carefully because I'm going subject by subject.

Overarching Narrative/ Modern Day

Starting off, yes I just said the narrative differs game to game but the structure of the modern day and pacing of overarching narrative progress tends to have a formulaic process between sagas. It's highly probable AC Victory will share the same modern day (structurally) as Unity.

Though lead writer Darby McDevitt said on two accounts that "Unity's Modern Day is not the final form of Modern Day."

Those tweets were then suspiciously deleted.

But that doesn't matter. What matters is Unity's modern day is not a suitable modern day structure for the AC franchise. Yes, it is condensed for the casual gamers but it is to such a large degree that it is virtually insignificant and might as well not be included at all. Everyone knows the joke ending where Bishop is just like "Oh, nevermind. We didn't actually have to do any of that. Sorry. You're done pal." What an insult that was.

I showed my concerns about the minimal inclusion of modern day but I tried hard to keep an open mind. In the end I was not impressed with its execution.

If the modern day is going to be this insignificant, it might as well not exist at all. So change it to have more passion or drop it.

(this is one of the more highly debated topics so I figured I'd get this one out of the way)

Excessive Collectibles

This issue is more mutually agreed on. Too. Many. Collectibles.

2348234987 chests 23049823098420 cockades 32423 artifacts

Seriously guys, chill. It took me 3x the time to collect all the cockades than to complete the entire campaign. That's insane.

Way, waaaay too many. And what happened to context? In AC2, Ezio collected feathers to help his in-shock mother. In AC3, Connor collected chalices to get information on a treasure. Why the hell is Arno collecting 456456456 cockades and 546456456 floating hats? It makes zero sense and is an annoying reminder that "hey, this is a videogame!" which is very immersion breaking.

Convoluted skill point system

This is something I excluded from my Unity review as I had not bothered to get the skill points when I wrote it. And boy is it strange. There are four different point systems in Unity if i recall. paris currency, helix credits, creed points, and sync points. creed points increase rank and upgrade items. paris currency buys items. helix credits buy and upgrade items. sync points upgrade skills. woah. talk about overwhelming the player. why so many different points? why use creed points to upgrade a weapon? why not just use money? why are creed points and skill points not the same thing? why do i have to go to specific locations in co-op missions and collect floating abstergo symbols to allow arno to sit on benches or shoot a second phantom blade in a row? its all just overly complex and unnecessary. but my main problem is skill points shouldn't be in the form of collectibles. that prevents players from upgrading their assassin at their own pace. and how collecting an item correlates to arno learning an unrelated skill is beyond me. this is just something that bothered me from both a logic and progressive standpoint. please just drop sync points entirely and stick to creed points.

Notradamus Enigmas

This one is short and sweet.

Had trouble with these puzzles. Asked around and not alone.

Some of the locations are horribly obscure to some.

Not saying to remove it (as much as I'd personally like to see it gone) but at least offer a helpful hint system for those of us who are not good with recognizing locations or solving convoluted riddles.

Soundtrack

Also short.

No recycling main themes.

Make it fit the time period/setting too.

It needs that sense of identity and music is a prime factor.

Helix Rift Missions

Gameplay-wise, these missions are understandable. The dev team probably wanted to do more with the parkour so they added these data collecting missions.

But this- along with the initiate name calling and time anomalies- really just break the character immersion.

Nothing is worse than playing as an assassin who just lost his loved one and has to track down his killer and is about to find him when BAM you're pulled out of the story and are reminded "yo you're playing a videogame"

It's like, really?

For the company that defended "you as the protagonist" as being immersive, this is pretty immersion-breaking.

And I know I am not the only one who held this feeling. I've seen complaints on this both in and outside the forums on countless occasions.

It's something that needs to be rectified.

Murder Mysteries and Side Assassin Missions

Murder mysteries are arguably the best part of the game. And admittedly, I had a lot of fun with some of them. That being said they could be better. For example, the NPCs. Some are so lifeless and dull. Many were anticipating Charollete Corday's appearance in Unity and she ended up having like two lines before you accuse her of being the obvious killer. Some cutscenes would do nicely. Or anything that would make the characters a bit more alive. I would reference LA Noire for possible influence but that's a fully fleshed out game and it's understandable why Ubi wouldn't go that far in-depth. Still, a little more life is all I ask.

Also get rid of those annoying pop ups. Pop ups overlap other pop ups and its annoying. Fix that. Make the interface less of a mess.

Same applies for the assassin missions. The gameplay was relatively good and fun. But there was hardly context or development at times. Just a sentence explanation and arno goes off to kill people. Like brotherhood or AC3, cutscenes would do nicely.

I also miss the long side quests. The ones with story and multiple phases. These all felt like short bursts of sheer gameplay. While not bad, having some strong meaning behind each action would only heighten the value of said missions.

Well, that's it. Feel free to share with me your thoughts on my concerns/conclusions or post what you feel needs to be included/removed/changed to make Victory an overall more enjoyable experience.

Note: these are the steps I deem necessary to make a solid AC game. Not a great AC game mind you for in order to be great you have to go beyond the norm for a full innovative compelling experience. But before you can do that, it's important to get the basic issues/inconveniences out of the way first. Just food for thought.

DemonLord4lf
02-20-2015, 04:42 AM
https://kitchenoverlord.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/deadpool-awesome1.jpg?w=726

Namikaze_17
02-20-2015, 04:45 AM
Nice post.

Hopefully with these improvements over areas you mentioned, Victory can be a solid game.

DemonLord4lf
02-20-2015, 04:48 AM
Nice post.

Hopefully with these improvements over areas you mentioned, Victory can be a solid game.

One teensy little problem... If AC Victory is as far along as they would like us to believe, its going to be hard for them to implement these ideas if they haven't already done so and still make the annual release deadline >.>

Altair1789
02-20-2015, 05:02 AM
One teensy little problem... If AC Victory is as far along as they would like us to believe, its going to be hard for them to implement these ideas if they haven't already done so and still make the annual release deadline >.>

But that's the thing- they don't usually take ideas from people like forumers alone. They might already be doing this because, I think it's safe to say, the vast majority agrees with most of this, but if they hadn't considered it then stumbled upon this thread it'd make no difference. Still though, this is a pretty accurate representation of most fans

DemonLord4lf
02-20-2015, 05:12 AM
But that's the thing- they don't usually take ideas from people like forumers alone. They might already be doing this because, I think it's safe to say, the vast majority agrees with most of this, but if they hadn't considered it then stumbled upon this thread it'd make no difference. Still though, this is a pretty accurate representation of most fans

We'll see... Ubisoft really stung me and many other fans with ACU...

GoldenBoy9999
02-20-2015, 05:18 AM
*Applause*

Spot on Quirky, I agreed with every word. I honestly think that Victory can be an amazing game if it takes these very necessary steps.

Perk89
02-20-2015, 05:44 AM
I for one hope they don't bring back Murder Mysteries just "because." It seems like Ubisoft finds a feature that is well-liked, we get it without context, explanation, or real purpose in the next few games (See Cafe Theatre) It'll probably end up being back because of the notable killer the time period has (you know who I mean) so I suppose if murder mysteries is changed from a random assortment of murders into a fully fleshed out "on the trail of Jack the Ripper" type thing, then I'll be okay with it. But only if it's given it's proper due. As you said, give it proper plot development that feels essential to the protagonist's story as a whole, give us lengthy cutscenes and important dialogue. All the things that make a narrative driven game good. Not to mention, improve on the experience itself. As a guy who did play LA Noire, it felt like a horribly watered down version of that. As you said, you can't really go all the way in reaching that standard, but if it's going to be in the game-then make sure it's worth being in the game.
Frankly, I'm not sure how I feel about random side content in this series anyways, but we will see.


I don't think there is any way I won't like game. The setting is going to be too amazing for me to not like it, as anyone who played the Belle Époque helix rift can see (the tutorial one, not those annoying data harvest missions) But without the improvements you mentioned, it'll certainly hold the game back in a year where it needs a really strong showing.

Also, I hope they do away with skill points altogether. I understand the logic behind it-customize the way you play so you can play through differently various times. But it's poor in practice. Nobody wants to have to wait until sequence 9 or whatever to do basic Assassin techniques. (Or wait any amount of time to do the,, especially given how short the campaign is) And if you take out all the cool Assassin techniques, then there's really no interest in what's left (Assassin Cache, etc)

Just do away with the system and let a trained Assassin be a trained Assassin. Our Assassin improving throughout the course of the game is reasonable, but make it more like Ezio at the training grounds at Montterriggioni rather than the system used for Unity.

DemonLord4lf
02-20-2015, 05:52 AM
I for one hope they don't bring back Murder Mysteries just "because." It seems like Ubisoft finds a feature that is well-liked, we get it without context, explanation, or real purpose in the next few games (See Cafe Theatre) It'll probably end up being back because of the notable killer the time period has (you know who I mean) so I suppose if murder mysteries is changed from a random assortment of murders into a fully fleshed out "on the trail of Jack the Ripper" type thing, then I'll be okay with it. But only if it's given it's proper due. As you said, give it proper plot development that feels essential to the protagonist's story as a whole, give us lengthy cutscenes and important dialogue. All the things that make a narrative driven game good. Not to mention, improve on the experience itself. As a guy who did play LA Noire, it felt like a horribly watered down version of that. As you said, you can't really go all the way in reaching that standard, but if it's going to be in the game-then make sure it's worth being in the game.
Frankly, I'm not sure how I feel about random side content in this series anyways, but we will see.


I don't think there is any way I won't like game. The setting is going to be too amazing for me to not like it, as anyone who played the Belle Époque helix rift can see (the tutorial one, not those annoying data harvest missions) But without the improvements you mentioned, it'll certainly hold the game back in a year where it needs a really strong showing.

Also, I hope they do away with skill points altogether. I understand the logic behind it-customize the way you play so you can play through differently various times. But it's poor in practice. Nobody wants to have to wait until sequence 9 or whatever to do basic Assassin techniques. (Or wait any amount of time to do the,, especially given how short the campaign is) And if you take out all the cool Assassin techniques, then there's really no interest in what's left (Assassin Cache, etc)

Just do away with the system and let a trained Assassin be a trained Assassin. Our Assassin improving throughout the course of the game is reasonable, but make it more like Ezio at the training grounds at Montterriggioni rather than the system used for Unity.

You dont want them back just because? Thats stupid. I loved the murder mysteries. However, I actually prefered the ones they had during the Dead Kings DLC. Those felt a lot more real. I do hope they continue using those since it does break away from the usual, go here, kill this guy, thing they did in the past. I will agree they need to elaborate on them. Throwing them back in just because people enjoyed is isn't a good reason.

I also agree with you on the whole trained Assassin thing. I loved the training sessions we had in Uncle Mario's villa. (I'm not even going to try to spell that city's name :p)

Perk89
02-20-2015, 05:53 AM
Additionally, bring more outfits back. Including ones we can outright purchase. I get that customizable equipment probably isn't going away any time soon, but unique outfits are a traditional part of the AC experience. (And should stay that way, unlike homesteading ((and the like)) which has been in every game since AC2 whether it made sense or not) It doesn't have to be an insane amount, in fact I don't want it to be, but AC4 got it right.


Oh, and while I'm on the matter, this is another topic I've found most everyone agrees on: Let gear be usable at any level. An Assassin's signatures robes are one of the series "IT"moments, and Arno's become pretty much worthless a quarter of the way through the game. Frankly I wish we'd go back to purely cosmetic changes, as the idea of some pair of cloth robes providing 500% more health than another pair of cloth robes is as gamey as game can get! but sadly I doubt that's going away soon, so let's at least think of a workaround to make all wearable gear viable.

TexasCaesar
02-20-2015, 05:56 AM
Overarching Narrative/ Modern Day

Starting off, yes I just said the narrative differs game to game but the structure of the modern day and pacing of overarching narrative progress tends to have a formulaic process between sagas. It's highly probable AC Victory will share the same modern day (structurally) as Unity.

Though lead writer Darby McDevitt said on two accounts that "Unity's Modern Day is not the final form of Modern Day."

Those tweets were then suspiciously deleted.

But that doesn't matter. What matters is Unity's modern day is not a suitable modern day structure for the AC franchise. Yes, it is condensed for the casual gamers but it is to such a large degree that it is virtually insignificant and might as well not be included at all. Everyone knows the joke ending where Bishop is just like "Oh, nevermind. We didn't actually have to do any of that. Sorry. You're done pal." What an insult that was.

I showed my concerns about the minimal inclusion of modern day but I tried hard to keep an open mind. In the end I was not impressed with its execution.

If the modern day is going to be this insignificant, it might as well not exist at all. So change it to have more passion or drop it.

(this is one of the more highly debated topics so I figured I'd get this one out of the way)

The modern-day plot was worse than useless on account of it interrupting the main story (which I'll probably criticize in a future thread or post). I'd say that we're (sadly) do for a reboot already. Just... reboot the modern-day segments. They've kind of written themselves into a corner.



Excessive Collectibles

This issue is more mutually agreed on. Too. Many. Collectibles.

2348234987 chests 23049823098420 cockades 32423 artifacts

Seriously guys, chill. It took me 3x the time to collect all the cockades than to complete the entire campaign. That's insane.

Way, waaaay too many. And what happened to context? In AC2, Ezio collected feathers to help his in-shock mother. In AC3, Connor collected chalices to get information on a treasure. Why the hell is Arno collecting 456456456 cockades and 546456456 floating hats? It makes zero sense and is an annoying reminder that "hey, this is a videogame!" which is very immersion breaking.

Agreed. I don't mind collectibles, but they sure as heck aren't a substitute for actual content. I need a story justification for collecting them and a gameplay reward for doing so. The worst collectibles, though, would be the little suns from Black Flag. Cockades are, at least, historically relevant. Maybe there should be a mechanic, like Far Cry 4, where your collectibles are tied into what you're doing (Far Cry 4 had propaganda posters to tear down)? Other than that, common sense would tell a designer that the collectibles should not be marked on the map, since the point of them has, traditionally, been to find them on your own and encourage exploration.

At least Unity had the chests (usually) be defended by guards, implying that you were stealing funds from your enemies (instead of people literally just leaving money all over the place).



Convoluted skill point system

This is something I excluded from my Unity review as I had not bothered to get the skill points when I wrote it. And boy is it strange. There are four different point systems in Unity if i recall. paris currency, helix credits, creed points, and sync points. creed points increase rank and upgrade items. paris currency buys items. helix credits buy and upgrade items. sync points upgrade skills. woah. talk about overwhelming the player. why so many different points? why use creed points to upgrade a weapon? why not just use money? why are creed points and skill points not the same thing? why do i have to go to specific locations in co-op missions and collect floating abstergo symbols to allow arno to sit on benches or shoot a second phantom blade in a row? its all just overly complex and unnecessary. but my main problem is skill points shouldn't be in the form of collectibles. that prevents players from upgrading their assassin at their own pace. and how collecting an item correlates to arno learning an unrelated skill is beyond me. this is just something that bothered me from both a logic and progressive standpoint. please just drop sync points entirely and stick to creed points.

Just goes to show that AC works better as a normal open-world game than an RPG. I would rather just have my abilities be given to me throughout the game, with story justification, than to have to choose how I'm going to handicap myself. The multiple currencies didn't bother me much. You've got money, skill, and bribes - the only odd one is Creed Points, which truly is useless, and would be better off as part of the Brotherhood system.



Notradamus Enigmas

This one is short and sweet.

Had trouble with these puzzles. Asked around and not alone.

Some of the locations are horribly obscure to some.

Not saying to remove it (as much as I'd personally like to see it gone) but at least offer a helpful hint system for those of us who are not good with recognizing locations or solving convoluted riddles.

I like the idea of these, but I found it way too hard. There's too many locations in the game to reasonably check them all and see what might match up with the riddle.



Helix Rift Missions

Gameplay-wise, these missions are understandable. The dev team probably wanted to do more with the parkour so they added these data collecting missions.

But this- along with the initiate name calling and time anomalies- really just break the character immersion.

Nothing is worse than playing as an assassin who just lost his loved one and has to track down his killer and is about to find him when BAM you're pulled out of the story and are reminded "yo you're playing a videogame"

It's like, really?

For the company that defended "you as the protagonist" as being immersive, this is pretty immersion-breaking.

And I know I am not the only one who held this feeling. I've seen complaints on this both in and outside the forums on countless occasions.

It's something that needs to be rectified.

I'll talk about this more when I create my review thread, but let's just say that they squandered a good idea by making the missions very repetitive. I think the Digital Trips from Watch_Dogs would have been a better model for the Helix Rifts; take a specific aspect of the gameplay and bring it into the spotlight while also putting it in a different setting. WD had combat (NVXN), running (Coin Run), driving (Madness), stealth (Alone), and then two with completely unique mechanics.



Murder Mysteries and Side Assassin Missions

Murder mysteries are arguably the best part of the game. And admittedly, I had a lot of fun with some of them. That being said they could be better. For example, the NPCs. Some are so lifeless and dull. Many were anticipating Charollete Corday's appearance in Unity and she ended up having like two lines before you accuse her of being the obvious killer. Some cutscenes would do nicely. Or anything that would make the characters a bit more alive. I would reference LA Noire for possible influence but that's a fully fleshed out game and it's understandable why Ubi wouldn't go that far in-depth. Still, a little more life is all I ask.

Same applies for the assassin missions. The gameplay was relatively good and fun. But there was hardly context or development at times. Just a sentence explanation and arno goes off to kill people. Like brotherhood or AC3, cutscenes would do nicely.

I also miss the long side quests. The ones with story and multiple phases. These all felt like short bursts of sheer gameplay. While not bad, having some strong meaning behind each action would only heighten the value of said missions.

Well, that's it. Feel free to share with me your thoughts on my concerns/conclusions or post what you feel needs to be included/removed/changed to make Victory an overall more enjoyable experience.

Note: these are the steps I deem necessary to make a solid AC game. Not a great AC game mind you for in order to be great you have to go beyond the norm for a full innovative compelling experience. But before you can do that, it's important to get the basic issues/inconveniences out of the way first. Just food for thought.

There definitely needs to be cutscenes for side activities. The Murder Mysteries also tended to vary between incredibly obvious or obtuse, and messing it up had no impact on the outcome (whereas one news source I read claimed that you could arrest the wrong person, and wouldn't know). I think it would have fit the theme of criminology better by having the player find evidence on their own, and then have to link it together to explain why a given party is guilty. And you could still get the wrong answer!

The side activities could have done with more variety, and that's not even counting the lack of minigames (like the tavern betting games of III and IV). I did some brainstorming on what kind of activities I would have included (as creative director with 20/20 hindsight), and they included:
Scarlet Pimpernel missions - Rescue innocent nobles (and, later, Girondists) from the guillotine.
Looting - Kind of like a plantation raid, except you're competing against Jacobins. You could also think of it as a single-player heist.
Assassinations - Seems silly having to say this, but assassinations in which you take down corrupt figures.
Outposts - Using the Brotherhood to fight monarchists and, later, Jacobins for control of the districts.
Catacombs - WHY wasn't this in the game, when III's NY and Boston had it?
Court Espionage - Sneaking around Versailles in search of political information.
Ballooning - It wouldn't have a real purpose, it just would have been nice to fly around Paris.

Perk89
02-20-2015, 06:03 AM
You dont want them back just because? Thats stupid. I loved the murder mysteries. However, I actually prefered the ones they had during the Dead Kings DLC. Those where felt a lot more real. I do hope they continue using those since it does break away from the usual, go here, kill this guy, thing they did in the past. I will agree they need to elaborate on them. Throwing them back in just because people enjoyed is isn't a good reason.

I also agree with you on the whole trained Assassin thing. I loved the training sessions we had in Uncle Mario's villa. (I'm not even going to try to spell that city's name :p)

What I mean by that is that I don't want to see the endless recycling of popular side features for no reason. It feels like an obvious goodwill attempt and would in this case be EXTREMELY forced given that being a detective isn't exactly an Assassin thing (wow! What a coincidence that the last four protagonists we've played as have all aided local police forces in the capture of murder suspects!)

I used the cafe theatre example. It made sense in AC2, and in ACB and ACR it was there, but not as prominent and it also made sense. It also made sense in AC3, and was different enough from Monteriggioni that it didn't feel too recycled, as was the Great Inagua. But Rogue and Unity stepped over the line and it's become ridiculous. Shay was literally like "wow such house much nice" and kept his mansion (which played absolutely no part in the game at all and was there just to give the player a feature that "had" to be there)
And the Cafe Theatre in Unity wasn't much better, with the only good will being that at least it was original.

Frankly I hope Victory's protagonist is indeed the poor schmo this forum has said he is (though I know it's just a fan made rumor)

Anyways, that's what I mean. I don't want them to put it in just because it was the one thing in Unity that didn't people didn't collectively hate.

phoenix-force411
02-20-2015, 06:08 AM
Make pre-order DLCs actually memorable and worth it. Black Flag was the beginning of laziness with the pre-order DLCs, because no lore or story is tied to them and Unity's were just as bad even if they were a memory. Unity lacks a lot of cinematic cutscenes, and I would prefer they bring back at least 3 hours cutscenes. Up to date ACIII has the most cutscenes.

DemonLord4lf
02-20-2015, 06:10 AM
What I mean by that is that I don't want to see the endless recycling of popular side features for no reason. It feels like an obvious goodwill attempt and would in this case be EXTREMELY forced given that being a detective isn't exactly an Assassin thing (wow! What a coincidence that the last four protagonists we've played as have all aided local police forces in the capture of murder suspects!)

I used the cafe theatre example. It made sense in AC2, and in ACB and ACR it was there, but not as prominent and it also made sense. It also made sense in AC3, and was different enough from Monteriggioni that it didn't feel too recycled, as was the Great Inagua. But Rogue and Unity stepped over the line and it's become ridiculous. Shay was literally like "wow such house much nice" and kept his mansion (which played absolutely no part in the game at all and was there just to give the player a feature that "had" to be there)
And the Cafe Theatre in Unity wasn't much better, with the only good will being that at least it was original.

Frankly I hope Victory's protagonist is indeed the poor schmo this forum has said he is (though I know it's just a fan made rumor)

Anyways, that's what I mean. I don't want them to put it in just because it was the one thing in Unity that didn't people didn't collectively hate.

Ah, on that I agree with ya. I do hope they put it back in because it was fun, but I hope they give it more context. Maybe make the first Murder Mystery be a main mission, and allow you to decide whether or not you want to continue to do them. Maybe while looking for clues as to the whereabouts of your target you run into a murder scene and the detective asks for your help. Something like that would make the Murder Mysteries a lot more fun and not feel forced and put in just because. If they do put them in and don't make any sort of change to them, then I'll be on these forums with ya complaining about them.

Hans684
02-20-2015, 06:31 AM
I'd want yo run into a Murder Mystery where we are the killer, we kill all over the place and Unity ignored that.

DemonLord4lf
02-20-2015, 06:33 AM
I'd want yo run into a Murder Mystery where we are the killer, we kill all over the place and Unity ignored that.

Kinda ruins the point though... you're there to solve the murder... you're not really going to want to solve a murder you did >.>

The_Kiwi_
02-20-2015, 06:41 AM
Everyone thinks that Murder Mysteries would be great in Victory because then we'd get to see Jack the Ripper, but his identity is still a mystery :rolleyes:

Anyway, I agree with your thoughts, Quirky.

The point I agree with the most is the collectibles, it's almost as if Ubisoft realised how short the story was, but instead of just adding more to it, they just added pointless collectibles
And giving the collectibles meaning is definitely important
As you explained with AC2 and AC3, ACB also had meaningful collectibles; removing Borgia Flags was to help remove the Borgia's influence. Even though collecting them didn't actually change the influence of the Borgia, at least it had meaning behind it.
Same with AC4; Edward collected treasure maps and bottled messages, because pirates :rolleyes:
Even Shay collected ancient artifacts in order to obtain better equipment

DemonLord4lf
02-20-2015, 06:50 AM
Everyone thinks that Murder Mysteries would be great in Victory because then we'd get to see Jack the Ripper, but his identity is still a mystery :rolleyes:

Anyway, I agree with your thoughts, Quirky.

The point I agree with the most is the collectibles, it's almost as if Ubisoft realised how short the story was, but instead of just adding more to it, they just added pointless collectibles
And giving the collectibles meaning is definitely important
As you explained with AC2 and AC3, ACB also had meaningful collectibles; removing Borgia Flags was to help remove the Borgia's influence. Even though collecting them didn't actually change the influence of the Borgia, at least it had meaning behind it.
Same with AC4; Edward collected treasure maps and bottled messages, because pirates :rolleyes:
Even Shay collected ancient artifacts in order to obtain better equipment

Speaking about meaning, in AC2, what was the reason behind the feathers? What was the reason his brother was collecting them for?

The_Kiwi_
02-20-2015, 06:58 AM
Speaking about meaning, in AC2, what was the reason behind the feathers? What was the reason his brother was collecting them for?

He was sick
He was confined to his house
Feathers represented freedom, at least in his eyes

And what else is he going to do with his life? :rolleyes:

DemonLord4lf
02-20-2015, 07:04 AM
He was sick
He was confined to his house
Feathers represented freedom, at least in his eyes

And what else is he going to do with his life? :rolleyes:

Well....

http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/9f/c8/66/9fc86634da787cae8da17b5c0804663c.jpg

Namikaze_17
02-20-2015, 07:18 AM
Everyone thinks that Murder Mysteries would be great in Victory because then we'd get to see Jack the Ripper, but his identity is still a mystery :rolleyes:

I'd like if he got a murder mystery that led into an epic chase scene.

The funny part is we don't catch him. :cool:

DemonLord4lf
02-20-2015, 07:20 AM
I'd like if he got a murder mystery that led into an epic chase scene.

The funny part is we don't catch him. :cool:

You know they could say we killed Jack the Ripper, but because he was a prince or something, we never revealed it. So we let everyone think that Jack the Ripper vanished.

The_Kiwi_
02-20-2015, 07:24 AM
I'd like if he got a murder mystery that led into an epic chase scene.

The funny part is we don't catch him. :cool:

And then Sam makes this face when Ripper gets away:
http://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lpnw6bUzcP1qm6oc3o1_500.gif

TexasCaesar
02-20-2015, 07:50 AM
There wasn't anything wrong with the idea of a Cafe Theatre system, it just wasn't implemented well. Really, I expect AC games to have some sort of resource management mini game since, well, II, and the cafes were the perfect choice for one set in Revolutionary Paris.

The difference? The other games actually had you do stuff with your business. In Brotherhood, for example, you got to choose where to renovate businesses, and renovating businesses was necessary in order to gain access to medicine, ammunition, weaponry... there was a strong impetus to participate in it, and I felt very engaged because I was reshaping Rome to suit my needs.

III brought the series to new heights by introducing some human drama to the mix, and it was a much more hands-on and complex system. Unfortunately, it was also kind of broken; crafting just wasn't worth the effort in comparison to selling Miriam's pelts. You could still role-play it, though, selling goods to meet (imaginary) demands in other towns. I'd pretend to be an arms manufacturer, for example, shipping artillery, weapons, and uniforms to the Continental Army.

Black Flag took a step backwards by keeping the action away from us, and merging it with the Brotherhood mechanics, but it still was functional and it had enough flavor text to keep it interesting.

Unity is literally paying money to get more money. Oh, and paying money so you can do more missions. And that's a shame, because it could have been a fine restaurant simulator! Having to manage your supplies, staff, providing entertainment and dolling up your cafes to appeal to the audience... I would have liked to have been able to have a more direct role in how the businesses were run.

Namikaze_17
02-20-2015, 07:51 AM
You know they could say we killed Jack the Ripper, but because he was a prince or something, we never revealed it. So we let everyone think that Jack the Ripper vanished.

Nah, just have him move like an Assassin and escape.

Simple as that.

The first time someone outclasses a Master Assassin in a chase. :rolleyes:

Or just have Ripper get lucky by fading into a huge crowd or fog. :p

DemonLord4lf
02-20-2015, 07:53 AM
Nah, just have him move like an Assassin and escape.

Simple as that.

The first time someone outclasses a Master Assassin in a chase. :rolleyes:

Or just have Ripper get lucky by fading into a huge crowd or fog. :p

Or they could do what LA Noire did and just have him be some random dude that we kill, but gets swept under the rug due to political mumbo jumbo.

Namikaze_17
02-20-2015, 08:11 AM
Or they could do what LA Noire did and just have him be some random dude that we kill, but gets swept under the rug due to political mumbo jumbo.

Haven't played much of LA Noire so I can't really say on that.

DemonLord4lf
02-20-2015, 08:46 AM
Haven't played much of LA Noire so I can't really say on that.

You remember the Black Dahlia murder right? They say it was the work of the lipstick murderer. Well in LA Noire you find the guy responsible, after a very lengthy investigation, hunt him down and kill him. However, once you do that, your boss tells ya that no one will ever know about it because the guy was the son of some politician. Their are rumors that Jack the Ripper was some Duke or Prince or something... They could go off of that.

Namikaze_17
02-20-2015, 09:13 AM
You remember the Black Dahlia murder right? They say it was the work of the lipstick murderer. Well in LA Noire you find the guy responsible, after a very lengthy investigation, hunt him down and kill him. However, once you do that, your boss tells ya that no one will ever know about it because the guy was the son of some politician. Their are rumors that Jack the Ripper was some Duke or Prince or something... They could go off of that.

Oh. Well if done right, it can make perfect sense.

Though that's only a rumor about him but **** it right? :p

DemonLord4lf
02-20-2015, 09:14 AM
Oh. Well if done right, it can make perfect sense.

Though that's only a rumor about him but **** it right? :p

Yea exactly. They can do whatever they want and say that it got swept under the rug. There, problem solved :D

VestigialLlama4
02-20-2015, 12:22 PM
Feel free to share with me your thoughts on my concerns/conclusions or post what you feel needs to be included/removed/changed to make Victory an overall more enjoyable experience.

Personally if they wanted to do a good AC game, they should never have gone to Victorian England, its not a setting that works well for Assassin's Creed. I would have preferred Elizabethan England because there it would make way more sense.

I personally have very low expectations with Victory and considering how far it is in development cycle, I doubt that it can be "salvaged". I expect a hatchet job, and who knows lowered expectations might yield better than great ones.

I am sure we are going to get London Side Stories, though this time with some cutscenes and the like, we might or might not get Tombs and Jack the Ripper will be a Sage.

m4r-k7
02-20-2015, 02:41 PM
Personally if they wanted to do a good AC game, they should never have gone to Victorian England, its not a setting that works well for Assassin's Creed. I would have preferred Elizabethan England because there it would make way more sense. .

I too would have preferred Elizabethan England. They could have done so much with that era.

Namikaze_17
02-20-2015, 03:25 PM
She was in one of the glyphs in AC2.

Plus with time anomalies, I'm sure we'll probably see something from that era.

But I know you guys mean as a setting of course.

VestigialLlama4
02-20-2015, 04:01 PM
I too would have preferred Elizabethan England. They could have done so much with that era.

It could have recaptured the Ezio magic. Think of how many people were there in that time. You had Francis Bacon, Walter Raleigh, John Dee (the original 007), Christopher Marlowe (who is quite obviously an Assassin) and of course William Shakespeare.

dimbismp
02-20-2015, 04:21 PM
A non-revenge/redemption and bigger story.

Evolution of the blackboxes.

Story based side missions,like the Templar Hunts for example(+assassination contracts)

Decent MD or nothing at all.

AMM

TO_M
02-20-2015, 04:49 PM
Make pre-order DLCs actually memorable and worth it. Black Flag was the beginning of laziness with the pre-order DLCs, because no lore or story is tied to them and Unity's were just as bad even if they were a memory. Unity lacks a lot of cinematic cutscenes, and I would prefer they bring back at least 3 hours cutscenes. Up to date ACIII has the most cutscenes.

Almost everything you say is wrong.
I don't want to miss out on potential story or lore just because I didn't pre-order the game, if it's just extra costumes/weapons/characters (multiplayer) then it's fine but not actual lore/story missions.

And the way AC3 handled cutscenes was atrocious, almost every missions consisted of long cutscene intro, doing something, cutscene, taking 5 steps, cutscene, etcetera. Most of the assassinations in AC3 were damned cutscenes. I prefer to play a game, not watch some interactive movie.
The amount of cutscenes in Unity were fine imo, though I personally prefer the way AC1 did it, having complete control over your characters almost all the time but having the option to go into "cutscene" mode at the press of the button.

YodaySunrider
02-20-2015, 05:14 PM
I feel like most of the systems and activities they added in Unity are sound concepts that worked well, but just need some refinement. I agree that while the Paris Stories were fun, they needed a bit more production to them. I wouldn't expect them to add cinematics to all of them though, as those must cost a fortune to produce, but a few more lines of dialog per mission would go a very long way. I could even see them doing a full cinematic treatment for a couple of the more noteworthy missions. The Helix missions probably need the most work of all of the content. The Helix missions just felt slapped together and not very fun. I personally only did them for because I had to for 100% sync.

Sync points and the skills system is IMO the single biggest issue with Unity, and I really hope they realize just how damaging that system was. I actually like the idea of a skill tree and leveling system in AC, but the system they put together doesn't make any sense. The biggest problem with the system is that putting points into a skill tree should make a player feel like they are improving their character, and the system the designed made putting points into the system was only working to make us less awful. So many crucial skills were in the skill trees that most of the people that play Unity will never get to know the full range of combat and stealth that the game has to offer. On top of some people not getting core abilities at all, those that do are never properly instructed on how to use the abilities, or why they are important. I am a firm believer that core player abilities should never under any circumstance be locked behind a system where players can choose not to have them, and Unity is a perfect example of this. I didn't get the staggering strike or heavy strike abilities until long after I finished the main story because of a focus on stealth and a lack of skill points. The fact that a player can get all the way through the main story without getting abilities as crucial as those is absolutely insane, and I really have to question the designer responsible. This problem is only compounded by the awful way that skill points are distributed. I am shocked every time I think about the fact that a very large number of the skill points are hidden inside of co-op missions, it's just utterly baffling. Having skill points be hidden collectibles is a bad enough decision, but to lock them to a mission type that a significant number of players won't even go into is just plain crazy.

I would love to see a well implemented skill and leveling system, but they really do need to go back to the drawing board with it. First and foremost is that the actual skills have to be things that alter or improve existing abilities in some kind of meaningful way. They could do things like improving the damage done with quick shot, automatically highlight enemies within the smoke screen, or add a chance for berserked enemies to infect targets. There are a ton of cool effects that they could integrate into a skill system that make the player feel like they are making fun and meaningful choices. On top of this, skill points as a thing you have to collect in the world in any way needs to be completely done away with. They have an XP system in the form of creed points, and they have a rank system in place already. Use those systems and make ranking up actual mean something by granting skill points instead of serving as nothing more than a meaningless title. A simple skill point per rank system would also allow players to earn skill points by doing the things that they like doing instead of forcing them to hunt them down in a game type that they may have no interest in.

GunnerGalactico
02-20-2015, 05:41 PM
Great post Quirky!

I especially agree 100% on the skill points system.

Perk89
02-20-2015, 05:49 PM
They better not mess it up, this setting is going to be glorious. It's an ideal place for an AC game and it's going to be amazing skipping across a snowy rooftop and seeing the crackle of illumination from electrical lights before taking a leap of faith down to a roaring, smokey, underground train.


This is a setting the fanbase has wanted for years, I'm more excited about this AC than I have for any one since AC3, and so I hope they make sure it's incredible.

Hans684
02-20-2015, 05:55 PM
Kinda ruins the point though... you're there to solve the murder... you're not really going to want to solve a murder you did >.>

No it wouldn't, it would introduce a new kind missions where you either frame someone else, make it look like an accident or a fight between them. Covering your own tracks. As for wanting to solve the mystery, well they are killers so...

Fatal-Feit
02-20-2015, 06:12 PM
Additionally, pop-ups such as hints and updates need to be readjusted.

Every time you gain Creed Points, undertake a Murder Mystery, or just turn off your HUD, the pop-up is very excessive. The messages takes up a middle chunk of your screen and stays for about 5 seconds each, intruding your gameplay, especially during a Murder Mystery. I can't tell you how many times I've stopped participating in Murder Mysteries because every time I find a clue/hint, the update pop-up hovers over the texts I was reading.

A solution I think would be ideal is if they brought back Assassin's Creed 3's quests/item log which pops up at the top right of the screen and quickly updates you all at once.

Xstantin
02-20-2015, 06:19 PM
A solution I think would be ideal is if they brought back Assassin's Creed 3's quests/item log which pops up at the top right of the screen and quickly updates you all at once.

Agreed. Looking back at it I think ACIII had a better onscreen display layout.

GoldenBoy9999
02-20-2015, 06:46 PM
With the side missions, I think quality over quantity is more important. They were billed as the "Thousand stories of Paris", and yes, there were a lot of them, but they weren't as fun for me to play as the side missions of the past. I am on a 100% run at the moment and the missions almost seem like chores instead of entertainment. A quick cut scene would be nice, and if they reduced the amount of the side missions each side mission could be lengthier and more filled out.

I really liked the murder mysteries and I hope they are improved upon. I've played 3-4 and none of them really made me think twice except for my most recent one (The Decapitated Warden). Although, I have guessed the suspect on the first try every time. I would recommend bumping the difficulty up on these. Not as much as your Nostradamus Enigmas though. We need a balance of the two.

And please maintain the amount of history you put in Unity. Yes, the main campaign was lacking in it but the database entries, monuments/buildings, and side mission history were all spot on. History is one of the biggest reasons I play AC. Not everything in the games are 100% accurate, but it gives a starting point for people like me to delve into the topic more if they so please. An example is the minor but interesting character, Vidocq, from the murder mysteries. Some may not think twice about him, but yesterday I looked him up and was pleasantly surprised to find a whole Wikipedia article on him, which I then read in its entirety. Keep that stuff up.

Democrito_71
02-20-2015, 07:38 PM
This is something I excluded from my Unity review as I had not bothered to get the skill points when I wrote it. And boy is it strange. There are four different point systems in Unity if i recall. paris currency, helix credits, creed points, and sync points. creed points increase rank and upgrade items. paris currency buys items. helix credits buy and upgrade items. sync points upgrade skills. woah. talk about overwhelming the player. why so many different points? why use creed points to upgrade a weapon? why not just use money? why are creed points and skill points not the same thing? why do i have to go to specific locations in co-op missions and collect floating abstergo symbols to allow arno to sit on benches or shoot a second phantom blade in a row? its all just overly complex and unnecessary. but my main problem is skill points shouldn't be in the form of collectibles. that prevents players from upgrading their assassin at their own pace. and how collecting an item correlates to arno learning an unrelated skill is beyond me. this is just something that bothered me from both a logic and progressive standpoint. please just drop sync points entirely and stick to creed points.

I completely agree with you on this. This Point system is too overwhelming and complicated plus I think it's ridiculous why Creed points and sync points aren’t the same.

Instead of having;
1. Sync points to buy skills
2. Creed Points to upgrade weapons, outfit parts and buy color settings
3. Helix credits (micro transactions duh) to buy all these stuffs with in real life currency and
4. Paris currency to buy outfits and weapons

I think there is a better solution for a Point system for future games than Unity’s complicated Point systems

First of all, get rid of the sync point system and unlock all skills from the beginning. It was very annoying in Unity not being able too sit on benches, throw money pouches, do a roll recovering, double assassinations + Aerial double assassinations etc. if you haven’t bought these skills with sync points.

Second remove the stats on the outfit parts and weapons completely. I want to choose my favorite outfit parts and weapons due too it’s designs and not for what stats it has.

Thirdly, Remove the Helix system completely.

And fourthly, keep the Creed points and changes it so you buy stats upgrades for the main character specifically instead using it to buy weapon upgrades, outfits upgrades and to buy colors pallets.

Creed Points should be used as a way to buy stats upgrades after these:

Melee –
A. Increases the weapon speed
B. Increases the weapon damage

Stealth –
A. Increase the time to blend in crowds
B. Increases the blend fade time
C. Reduces restricted area detection
D. Reduces falling noise
E. Reduces running noise

Health –
A. Increases the health points
B. Reduces the amount of taken damage
C. Reduces the damage from falling.

Range –
A. Increases the amount of different bombs
B. Increases the amount of throwing knifes
C. Increases the amount of ammunition
D. Increases the range distance for range weapons such as pistols, rifles, bows, crossbows and throwing knifes
E. Increases the damage for range weapons such as pistols, rifles, bows, crossbows and throwing knifes

The Paris currencies should be used to buy outfit parts, weapons, color palettes and to replenish your tools, ammunitions and medicines from shops.

The Helix credits which I sadly believe will be kept for the nearest future. I thoroughly dislike micro transactions in games in general and especially the Helix system in Unity. Why pay with real life currencies for unlocking stuff earlier in the game when those stuff are already on the disc?? Micro transactions only makes me pissed off. I think it should be removed completely. Assassins Creed is foremost a Single player game and Micro transactions shouldn’t be a part of it at all.

So for future Assassins Creed games, I think there only should only be;

The in Game Currency; used for buying outfit parts, weapons, color palettes and to replenish your tools, ammunitions and medicines from shops.

The Creed Point System; to buy stats upgrades for the main character specifically.

SixKeys
02-20-2015, 08:26 PM
A solution I think would be ideal is if they brought back Assassin's Creed 3's quests/item log which pops up at the top right of the screen and quickly updates you all at once.

Please no. AC3's interface was the start of excessive updates. Cons. Tant. Ly. I don't care that I have a new e-mail every 10 seconds, I'm not going to get out of the Animus, all right?! And I don't care that I just moved five steps forward and "ENTERED HUNTING GROUND: KANIENKE:HA". Backtrack five steps again and "ENTERED HUNTING GROUND: LEXINGTON". That system was way worse than Unity's.

Perk89
02-20-2015, 08:29 PM
Stupid pop ups showing up over important information CONSISTENTLY may just be the worst part of Unity and that's really, really saying something

Fatal-Feit
02-20-2015, 08:48 PM
Please no. AC3's interface was the start of excessive updates. Cons. Tant. Ly. I don't care that I have a new e-mail every 10 seconds, I'm not going to get out of the Animus, all right?! And I don't care that I just moved five steps forward and "ENTERED HUNTING GROUND: KANIENKE:HA". Backtrack five steps again and "ENTERED HUNTING GROUND: LEXINGTON". That system was way worse than Unity's.

That's what I thought until I tried some Murder Mysteries. I just found AC3's to be less intrusive. Something I love to do in Unity is turn off the HUD and take snap shots of something but the god damn hint-to-turn-it-back-on refuse to disappear.

But yeah, they're both bad. They should bring back AC3's quest/item log and make it a lot better. Or be like Black Flag and leave most of the notifications to the pause/start menu.

aL_____eX
02-20-2015, 08:54 PM
The HUD pop-ins in murder mysteries are really annoying. I know everytime I wanted to access the map or a specific entry for the evidence I just found, another thing popped up and I got redirected to something entirely different.

JustPlainQuirky
02-20-2015, 09:18 PM
The HUD pop-ins in murder mysteries are really annoying. I know everytime I wanted to access the map or a specific entry for the evidence I just found, another thing popped up and I got redirected to something entirely different.

Glad I wasn't the only one with this issue

Xstantin
02-20-2015, 09:29 PM
^Same here.

JustPlainQuirky
02-20-2015, 09:30 PM
Since it's a mutual issue, i'll edit it in the OP

glad to see the thread have support

SixKeys
02-20-2015, 10:31 PM
That's what I thought until I tried some Murder Mysteries. I just found AC3's to be less intrusive. Something I love to do in Unity is turn off the HUD and take snap shots of something but the god damn hint-to-turn-it-back-on refuse to disappear.

But yeah, they're both bad. They should bring back AC3's quest/item log and make it a lot better. Or be like Black Flag and leave most of the notifications to the pause/start menu.

AC4 had a great UI overall. It still had too many notifications for my liking, but at least they were easy to ignore in the pause menu.

TexasCaesar
02-20-2015, 11:33 PM
The interface has been fine for the most part. I wish, though, that they'd go with a theme appropriate to the time periods, instead of the high-tech "Animus" look; maps that look like actual maps on paper, HUDs that look like they were carved from wood, and so on.

Only big complaint I have about the HUD is the dang Murder Mysteries. Every time you investigate something, it throws a notification over the actual text, making it tedious to search a room.

DemonLord4lf
02-21-2015, 02:46 AM
No it wouldn't, it would introduce a new kind missions where you either frame someone else, make it look like an accident or a fight between them. Covering your own tracks. As for wanting to solve the mystery, well they are killers so...

http://a405.idata.over-blog.com/300x235/4/24/99/10/Humour/face_palm_super.jpg

Fatal-Feit
02-21-2015, 03:00 AM
Can you start a debate or give reasons as to why you disagree rather than post a facepalm pic? Thank you.

DemonLord4lf
02-21-2015, 03:11 AM
Can you start a debate or give reasons as to why you disagree rather than post a facepalm pic? Thank you.

Why would an assassin need to cover up their own kill? To put that into the game would show that you're a lousy assassin. A good assassin can kill someone and cover his/her tracks. Now for killing the Templars, The Templars already know who killed the person and don't want the authorities getting involved since it'll probably mean they'll found out about the Templars.

That enough of a reason? :p

Or should i have just done this?

http://www.troll.me/images2/skeptical-baby/what-are-you-talking-about-fool.jpg

Fatal-Feit
02-21-2015, 04:04 AM
I can gifs use make and sense no like too you.

In other words

http://new3.fjcdn.com/comments/Jgingtroll+rolled+a+random+image+posted+in+comment +5572744+at+_afdc2277023beebc3975198a1d265bfd.png

DemonLord4lf
02-21-2015, 04:06 AM
I can gifs use make and sense no like too you.

In other words

http://new3.fjcdn.com/comments/Jgingtroll+rolled+a+random+image+posted+in+comment +5572744+at+_afdc2277023beebc3975198a1d265bfd.png

I'm sorry

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view5/3212193/joker-crying-o.gif

Fatal-Feit
02-21-2015, 04:11 AM
Dats oke, we forgive u.

DemonLord4lf
02-21-2015, 04:15 AM
http://i.imgur.com/zh9uuSe.png

Sabutto
02-21-2015, 06:48 AM
I hope they keep the 23453445 collectibles. imo

DemonLord4lf
02-21-2015, 06:49 AM
I hope they keep the 23453445 collectibles. imo

Why such a small number man?

Sabutto
02-21-2015, 06:54 AM
Cause there wont be enough viewpoints for me to synch so i can unlock more *sadface*

DemonLord4lf
02-21-2015, 06:56 AM
Cause there wont be enough viewpoints for me to synch so i can unlock more *sadface*

http://www.troll.me/images/sad-sad-face/sad-sad-face.png

Hans684
02-21-2015, 11:15 AM
http://a405.idata.over-blog.com/300x235/4/24/99/10/Humour/face_palm_super.jpg

http://pdxretro.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Tommy-Lee-Jones-no-country-for-old-men.jpg

Still don't change the fact we kill all over the place and never gets a MM where we are guilty.

Shahkulu101
02-21-2015, 03:03 PM
http://pdxretro.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Tommy-Lee-Jones-no-country-for-old-men.jpg

Still don't change the fact we kill all over the place and never gets a MM where we are guilty.

You've said it yourself, when we go on killing sprees in-game it's just an Animus simulation. For all we know, his assassination targets from the main missions and Paris stories were the only people he killed. Oh and those from optional objectives, and even then the 'extremists' in the game are portrayed as horrible people. You're never required to kill the actual police force.

And since the story lacks ambiguity, the people he killed are asshats and won't be missed.

Hans684
02-21-2015, 03:41 PM
You've said it yourself, when we go on killing sprees in-game it's just an Animus simulation.

It would still be true even with a more reactive world.


For all we know, his assassination targets from the main missions and Paris stories were the only people he killed.

That sounds highly unlikely.

To deal with the main targets the open world can have rumors, speculation, false leads/theories etc... of a guy in a robe that killed them, so no cleaning missions for those. But as a reaction to what we do in the side missions there can be react mission of sorts. A reactive world that shows what you do won't go unnoticed.


Oh and those from optional objectives, and even then the 'extremists' in the game are portrayed as horrible people. You're never required to kill the actual police force.

I know.


And since the story lacks ambiguity, the people he killed are asshats and won't be missed.

Agree.

Shahkulu101
02-21-2015, 04:05 PM
So you agree he never killed anybody that wasn't 'bad' so to speak. Sure, everyone deserves an investigation, but Arno doesn't kill innocents - so it's not a contradiction that he investigates the murders of ordinary people and want's to bring their killers to justice.

Hans684
02-21-2015, 04:23 PM
So you agree he never killed anybody that wasn't 'bad' so to speak. Sure, everyone deserves an investigation, but Arno doesn't kill innocents - so it's not a contradiction that he investigates the murders of ordinary people and want's to bring their killers to justice.

I agree. As for himself, the rest of the word don't know of Templars or Assassins so investigating those "normal" people would make sense, unless your part of their system without knowing. Having everything we do pass by without any reaction doesn't make it feel as alive.

DemonLord4lf
02-21-2015, 08:09 PM
I agree. As for himself, the rest of the word don't know of Templars or Assassins so investigating those "normal" people would make sense, unless your part of their system without knowing. Having everything we do pass by without any reaction doesn't make it feel as alive.

Well, in that case, perhaps something like Hitman. If you do a sloppy job of the kill, the news will report it. Say something like you have a beard or blue eyes or brown hair. In that sense, I would see what your going for.

JustPlainQuirky
02-22-2015, 05:41 PM
This one is more opinion but

I forgot to add they need to go back to setting-appropriate fully-original main themes.

Unity suffered from boring non-french-esque music and Rogue suffered from 100% recycled main theme

I-Like-Pie45
02-22-2015, 05:48 PM
Mayrice you are a recycled main theme

TGPomy9795
02-23-2015, 05:44 AM
Unity also had clunky combat and animations. Playing Black Flag, Rogue, and AC3 makes me want that fluidity back, big time. Also, the weather effects in Unity are laughable compared to those games.

Other gripes: WHY no hidden blade/unarmed combat?!, horse riding needs to come back, whistling to attract enemies, dual hidden blades, ambient free-roam music.

Boom, add these features to the intense customization and graphics of Unity - I just created a solid AC gameplay-wise.

DemonLord4lf
02-23-2015, 05:46 AM
Unity also had clunky combat and animations. Playing Black Flag, Rogue, and AC3 makes me want that fluidity back, big time. Also, the weather effects in Unity are laughable compared to those games.

Other gripes: WHY no hidden blade/unarmed combat?!, horse riding needs to come back, whistling to attract enemies, dual hidden blades.

Boom, add these features to the intense customization and graphics of Unity - I just created a solid AC gameplay-wise.

People wanted harder combat... though im pretty sure thats not what they meant >.>

TGPomy9795
02-23-2015, 05:47 AM
People wanted harder combat... though im pretty sure thats not what they meant >.>

Once I went back to the old combat system, I don't know if I can go back to Unity. It just feels so "off." Harder yes, but almost to a frustratingly annoying degree. And the animations just don't seem to match up most of the time. I'm really hoping that Victory doesn't have the same combat.

DemonLord4lf
02-23-2015, 05:48 AM
Once I went back to the old combat system, I don't know if I can go back to Unity. It just feels so "off." Harder yes, but almost to a frustratingly annoying degree. And the animations just don't seem to match up most of the time.

Yea. I wouldn't mind a harder combat system, but it still needs to be fun and fluid.

Xstantin
02-23-2015, 06:41 AM
Other gripes: WHY no hidden blade combat?!



Well, the hidden blade combat was getting silly though. Pivot blade, yeah maybe.

DemonLord4lf
02-23-2015, 06:42 AM
Well, the hidden blade combat was getting silly though. Pivot blade, yeah maybe.

They still shouldn't have gotten rid of it. Change it up, make it different.

The_Kiwi_
02-23-2015, 12:12 PM
Mayrice you are a recycled main theme

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120507183659/glee/images/7/7f/Testify_in_church.gif

TGPomy9795
02-23-2015, 04:27 PM
Well, the hidden blade combat was getting silly though. Pivot blade, yeah maybe.

Unreasonable, yes. Fun/epic, Absolutely. I'd take the fun over realism in that case.

Megas_Doux
02-23-2015, 05:36 PM
Unreasonable, yes. Fun/epic, Absolutely. I'd take the fun over realism in that case.


I would include it, even though I have a dislike for it. However I would make it, as it should be, the weakest and least effective weapon as it was in AC I. The sames goes for the hand combat, there are silent take downs in Unity, though.

Gotta say, I like the direction of Unity´s combat. I was tired of that 5 years old difficulty and even if I still find easy, this no Dark Souls for instance, finally there´s somewhat of a challenge....

Shahkulu101
02-23-2015, 05:49 PM
I'd accept hidden blade combat, if we couldn't deflect attacks and instead had to rely on dodge. It should also do the least damage out of all the weapons but compensate for that by being the fastest.

Namikaze_17
02-23-2015, 05:57 PM
I don't mind HB combat, but a small blade blocking a giant axe makes me question the realism a bit.

Sure, the series is unrealistic in itself but still...


EDIT: Ah, I agree with Shahk.

Xstantin
02-23-2015, 06:46 PM
I'd accept hidden blade combat, if we couldn't deflect attacks and instead had to rely on dodge. It should also do the least damage out of all the weapons but compensate for that by being the fastest.

Something like that.

TGPomy9795
02-23-2015, 06:53 PM
All of that said, I have faith in AC Victory to be honest. I'm excited to see some gameplay, because I think it will be a refined version of Unity but with some additions from previous titles that fans want. (whistling, HB combat, etc..)

If they do that, at least Victory should be solid gameplay-wise. Then it is just up to them to make a good story.

ze_topazio
02-23-2015, 07:16 PM
I want Hidden blade combat like in AC1/2/Bro/Rev, fast and accurate one hit kills and not the hack and slash fest of AC3/Lib/4/Ro, that's not how you use a badass Assassin concealed weapon.

SixKeys
02-23-2015, 07:27 PM
I would include it, even though I have a dislike for it. However I would make it, as it should be, the weakest and least effective weapon as it was in AC I. The sames goes for the hand combat, there are silent take downs in Unity, though.


Weakest and least effective? The hidden blade is the only weapon in AC1 that can counter-kill everything as long as you get the timing right. It's also the only (reliable) way to take down Templar knights - the toughest enemy type - early in the game.

m4r-k7
02-23-2015, 08:13 PM
You could kill the final boss in AC 1 with a hidden blade counter lol those were the days :D

Megas_Doux
02-23-2015, 08:54 PM
Weakest and least effective? The hidden blade is the only weapon in AC1 that can counter-kill everything as long as you get the timing right. It's also the only (reliable) way to take down Templar knights - the toughest enemy type - early in the game.

Well, I wrote it thinking about the timing, which was less easier than the rest of the weapons, but your are right haha xD


You could kill the final boss in AC 1 with a hidden blade counter lol those were the days :D

Yep, true.

JustPlainQuirky
02-24-2015, 01:16 AM
Other gripes: WHY no hidden blade/unarmed combat?!, horse riding needs to come back, whistling to attract enemies, dual hidden blades, ambient free-roam music.


Hidden blade was never meant to be an open combat weapon.

its impractical.

Namikaze_17
02-24-2015, 01:22 AM
Did Altaïr even make that okay?

Or did later Assassins just adopt to it?

Fatal-Feit
02-24-2015, 01:27 AM
Hidden blade was never meant to be an open combat weapon.

its impractical.

Besides the pivot blade somewhat, it's technically impractical as a whole. That said, using them as a main melee weapon to parry/counter is beyond ridiculous.

The games that used them the best in combat was AC1, AC3, and Unity, IMO.

In AC1, you could only counter with them in combat or use it to stab the the targets on the ground.

In AC3, the pivot blade is practical because it can become a dagger which is durable.

In ACU, like Connor, Arno occasionally uses it to swipe the enemies during a combo.

JustPlainQuirky
02-24-2015, 01:28 AM
I never heard of the pivot blade.

i figured the blade in ac3 was just a weird hidden blade

Fatal-Feit
02-24-2015, 01:29 AM
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_md2xzmUFlL1r56pdzo1_500.jpg

JustPlainQuirky
02-24-2015, 01:31 AM
the hidden blade engineers must be bored out of their minds to come up with all those hidden blade variations

Fatal-Feit
02-24-2015, 01:36 AM
Some of them are clever and fitting, like the Pivot Blade, but sometimes I just roll my eyes at the stuff like Shock, Trident, and Poison and Shoe Blades. =p

JustPlainQuirky
02-24-2015, 01:37 AM
Shoe blades were an actual thing in china werent they? Or maybe Im crazy.

I still want my hidden flamethrower.

Maximum stealth.

Fatal-Feit
02-24-2015, 01:42 AM
U watch too much movies.

JustPlainQuirky
02-24-2015, 01:44 AM
i watch like at most 2 movies a year

on-topic

Prediction:

Victory will be meh

Not bad like Unity initial launch

but meh

#ProphetConfirmed

Fatal-Feit
02-24-2015, 01:53 AM
That's what everyone says when there's a new AC.

JustPlainQuirky
02-24-2015, 02:13 AM
well aside from black flag, they wouldn't be wrong.

i'd say ac3 too but thats arguable

Fatal-Feit
02-24-2015, 02:28 AM
AC3 started the trend. The first Ubisoft title that stole people's hype virginity.

JustPlainQuirky
02-24-2015, 02:31 AM
Brotherhood
Revelations
Liberation
Unity
Rogue

all meh to me

coincidentally all the subtitled ones, lmfao

Shahkulu101
02-24-2015, 02:33 AM
Brotherhood
Revelations
Liberation
Unity
Rogue

all meh to me

coincidentally all the subtitled ones, lmfao

Bish u no even play BH side missions

That's the main reason it's so goo'.

TGPomy9795
02-24-2015, 05:26 AM
Besides the pivot blade somewhat, it's technically impractical as a whole. That said, using them as a main melee weapon to parry/counter is beyond ridiculous.

The games that used them the best in combat was AC1, AC3, and Unity, IMO.

In AC1, you could only counter with them in combat or use it to stab the the targets on the ground.

In AC3, the pivot blade is practical because it can become a dagger which is durable.

In ACU, like Connor, Arno occasionally uses it to swipe the enemies during a combo.
I don't recall seeing any combos in which Arno uses the hidden blade to swipe enemies. Do you have any footage of this?

On a side note, I feel like AC3 had the best weapon choices. Every weapon choice seemed to make sense and the animations were so fitting, in my opinion.

JustPlainQuirky
02-24-2015, 05:28 AM
Bish u no even play BH side missions

That's the main reason it's so goo'.

i'll play it when I finally get a PC in the year 32094209

Fatal-Feit
02-24-2015, 05:30 AM
I don't recall seeing any combos in which Arno uses the hidden blade to swipe enemies. Do you have any footage of this?

It happens during a combo with the sword (and maybe the mace). Just like how he sometimes kick, Arno would swipe the enemies with the hidden blade similar to how he swings around and assassinates.

I don't have any recordings but you can try finding it through YT combat videos.


On a side note, I feel like AC3 had the best weapon choices. Every weapon choice seemed to make sense and the animations were so fitting, in my opinion.

Agreed, aside from the daggers, which looked ridiculous sometimes because it reuses the Tomahawk's animations. =p

The_Kiwi_
02-24-2015, 05:32 AM
Bish u no even play BH side missions

That's the main reason it's so goo'.

I hated Brotherhood, it pretty much only existed because of the flaws in a mediocre character

Victory needs to learn from the flaws of past protags, and make someone fresh and unique
Like a 45 year old father

JustPlainQuirky
02-24-2015, 05:33 AM
Like a 45 year old father

http://i48.tinypic.com/2urrqip.png

DemonLord4lf
02-24-2015, 05:34 AM
http://i48.tinypic.com/2urrqip.png

I thought you were obsessed with Shay... Also, aren't you a member of the Instruments of the First Will?

JustPlainQuirky
02-24-2015, 05:36 AM
I was making a reference as to how Haytham is a 45 year old father protagonist.

And I love him and Shay equally

DemonLord4lf
02-24-2015, 05:37 AM
I was making a reference as to how Haytham is a 45 year old father protagonist.

And I love him and Shay equally

But your avatar is that of the Templar order o.o

Shouldn't it be of Lady Juno?

JustPlainQuirky
02-24-2015, 05:38 AM
No.

DemonLord4lf
02-24-2015, 05:38 AM
No.

But....

TGPomy9795
02-24-2015, 05:39 AM
Another side note: To anyone here who has played Rogue, is it better than AC3 or ACIV?

Trying to decide if I should get it for PC when it releases.

JustPlainQuirky
02-24-2015, 05:42 AM
Yes and No.

Inferior plot to AC3. Inferior overworld/gameplay to ACIV.

It's like an inbetween, however.

Better gameplay than AC3 and better AC-related story than ACIV.

Worth the money but lackluster overworld gameplay and overarching narrative.

But that's way off-topic mate.

The_Kiwi_
02-24-2015, 05:43 AM
Another side note: To anyone here who has played Rogue, is it better than AC3 or ACIV?

Trying to decide if I should get it for PC when it releases.

Better than 3, just below 4

If you play Rogue before playing 4, you'll like a lot more

TGPomy9795
02-24-2015, 05:51 AM
Back on topic; Does anyone else hope Victory has better weather effects? They looked pretty poor in Unity.

Fatal-Feit
02-24-2015, 05:52 AM
It will have better lighting effects to accommodate the dark atmosphere, that's for sure.


Another side note: To anyone here who has played Rogue, is it better than AC3 or ACIV?

Trying to decide if I should get it for PC when it releases.

Gameplay-wise, Rogue is the best of both worlds. It's better than 3 (in terms of navigation, stealth, and exploration), but weaker than IV.

Narrative-wise, Rogue is the weakest of the 3, but that isn't to say it doesn't have a good story.

JustPlainQuirky
02-24-2015, 05:53 AM
Weather effects werent that bad.

they were just kept at a minimum.

there was rain and that's about it IIRC

DemonLord4lf
02-24-2015, 05:54 AM
Back on topic; Does anyone else hope Victory has better weather effects? They looked pretty poor in Unity.

I hope they have more weather and that the weather actually influences our abilities. Example being, if its raining and we go into a building, we'll leave wet foot prints which would alert the guards to our presence or at least make them suspicious.

TGPomy9795
02-24-2015, 05:58 AM
I hope they have more weather and that the weather actually influences our abilities. Example being, if its raining and we go into a building, we'll leave wet foot prints which would alert the guards to our presence or at least make them suspicious.

I just missed the thunderstorms while free-roaming. Taking out guards in the darkness so that when the lightning struck there were bodies there all of the sudden. So epic. It would be preferred if clothing/buildings got wet again, too.

DemonLord4lf
02-24-2015, 06:00 AM
I just missed the thunderstorms while free-roaming. Taking out guards in the darkness so that when the lightning struck there were bodies there all of the sudden. So epic. It would be preferred if clothing/buildings got wet again, too.

Dude that would be epic! You kill a bunch of guards and leave them near the target. Lightning strikes nearby and lights up the area revealing all the dead bodies. Scare the hell outta the target who tries to run away, but instead runs straight into a trap you set up.

Xstantin
02-24-2015, 06:21 AM
Fog is a given
I kinda do want bloodstains to be noticed so they alert the guards but it's a bit too much to ask for XD

pirate1802
02-24-2015, 11:43 AM
Fog is a given
I kinda do want bloodstains to be noticed so they alert the guards but it's a bit too much to ask for XD

Nah, then you would have people complaining about how they get detected too often.

The way AC is now, as a franchise, as a mainstream popular entertainment product, I think we should scale back our expectations of it. Yes, there will be a few improvements here and there, like there was in Unity, so that they can say 'look h4rdc0r3 fans! we care for you', but by and large the series will remain as piss easy and infuriating. I mean look around the forums and see how often the argument is thrown around that the player doesn't feel like a badass assassin anymore because he cannot murder 134134 guards in a second. You cannot honestly hope Ubisoft will strive to pander to this very demographic and still keep their games challenging and interesting.

It will never be what it once was meant to be, because somewhere along the lines it got famous.

TO_M
02-25-2015, 03:57 AM
Nah, then you would have people complaining about how they get detected too often.

The way AC is now, as a franchise, as a mainstream popular entertainment product, I think we should scale back our expectations of it. Yes, there will be a few improvements here and there, like there was in Unity, so that they can say 'look h4rdc0r3 fans! we care for you', but by and large the series will remain as piss easy and infuriating. I mean look around the forums and see how often the argument is thrown around that the player doesn't feel like a badass assassin anymore because he cannot murder 134134 guards in a second. You cannot honestly hope Ubisoft will strive to pander to this very demographic and still keep their games challenging and interesting.

It will never be what it once was meant to be, because somewhere along the lines it got famous.

This is the sad truth.