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92SqnGCJimbo
08-27-2004, 04:35 PM
right i have a associate who assures me that he was speaking to a german bob veteran that says that his me 109 had 2 cannon in the cowling where the mg15's were..
i know this is wrong but he wont beleive me.
please set him straight

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0RwAAAKYUV9WohzlTekrEej5FgrwxWyQ0S3cejYO2W5yCX7kWI qN7NAF5NXMr5DiDrxaAeMyIENpTJL8fBCRH3F0Q*37BNoLmDuO BgZw7pgA/dhm2110.jpg?dc=4675481137574892891

92SqnGCJimbo
08-27-2004, 04:35 PM
right i have a associate who assures me that he was speaking to a german bob veteran that says that his me 109 had 2 cannon in the cowling where the mg15's were..
i know this is wrong but he wont beleive me.
please set him straight

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0RwAAAKYUV9WohzlTekrEej5FgrwxWyQ0S3cejYO2W5yCX7kWI qN7NAF5NXMr5DiDrxaAeMyIENpTJL8fBCRH3F0Q*37BNoLmDuO BgZw7pgA/dhm2110.jpg?dc=4675481137574892891

horseback
08-27-2004, 06:23 PM
Sounds like a language based misunderstanding. The most common types of 109 flown in the Battle of Britain were the E-3 and E-4, and they both featured a couple of MG 17s in the cowling (did this German BoB vet speak enough English to understand that 'cowling' doesn't mean 'wing?) and a MG FF 20mm cannon in each wing.

Some 109F-0s and F-2s made it into the late stages of the BoB (and remember, German historians count the 'Night Blitz' of the winter of 40/41 as part of the Battle)and these had the 15mm MG 151 cannon firing through the prop, but not on the cowling.

cheers horseback

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944

p1ngu666
08-27-2004, 07:34 PM
hm
theres no deffinition of cannon
so he means the mg really but calls them cannon

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<123_GWood_JG123> NO SPAM!

Covino
08-27-2004, 07:42 PM
Were there any field mods to install larger caliber weapons in the cowling?

meh_cd
08-27-2004, 08:12 PM
Galland installed 131s in the cowling of his Freidrich, but I don't think the E had many modifications such as that.

Fw-190D-9
08-27-2004, 09:28 PM
Well, I know the some Bf-109F's that Glanad had were modified to carry Mg151, and I think MGff in the wings.

As for having cannons in the cowling, nope that didn't happen, I doupt there was the room to do so.

F19_Ob
08-28-2004, 12:15 AM
Horseback may be right.
Language based misunderstandings are not uncommon in transcripts or audio or videointerviews. Not translations either.

German vets generally say 3cm cannon instead of 30mm cannon. They also often use the word "gun" as "weapon".
Old Germans often mistake the sound 'thirty'= 30 and 'thirteen'=13.
So sometimes they say they had a 2cm 'gun' in the nose and two "thirty" mm 'guns' in the cowling.

A person who says the above naturally means he had a 20mm cannon in the nose and two 13mm mg's in the cowling.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Oh... and usally they use 'cm' about cannons, but about the 15mm cannon in the bf 109F2, they often say "15mm 'gun'in the nose" instead, wich for us nonGermans means he had a 15mm machinegun in the nose. This was a bit confusing the first time I heard G√ľnther Rall say it.

They usually say "on top of the engine" or more like "on the engine" instead of cowling.

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Explanation of Bf109 weapons, or what we usually say
-Bf 109's have cannons in either wings or shoot through the propeller hub, or better to say, 'enginemounted'cannon, or 'in the engine'. Sometimes we say 'nosemounted' or cannon in the nose aswell.
-Machineguns are mounted on top of the engine (not in) or as we NonGerman say,' in the cowling'.
He,he ...Its quite easy to see how this 'generally' generates broblems for different language origins.

Salute

[This message was edited by F19_Ob on Fri August 27 2004 at 11:51 PM.]