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adadaead
05-14-2004, 10:22 PM
What are the "1+~" and staff like that on german planes what are they mean. And sometimes they appear on russian but only one those red icons that tell you how many meters the plane is from you and what kind of plane is that.

Actualy this sign from eric hartman plane.



Only in the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter aircraft, no matter how highly developed it may be.

adadaead
05-14-2004, 10:22 PM
What are the "1+~" and staff like that on german planes what are they mean. And sometimes they appear on russian but only one those red icons that tell you how many meters the plane is from you and what kind of plane is that.

Actualy this sign from eric hartman plane.



Only in the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter aircraft, no matter how highly developed it may be.

StabJG51_TOE
05-14-2004, 10:58 PM
The + ~ - | represent wich particular Staffel (group) an aircraft belongs to in a Jagdgeschwader (Sqaudron)

For a full description of the differant markings take a look here:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~rhorta/jgmark.htm

VW-IceFire
05-15-2004, 06:59 AM
Trust me...I have reference books that go over it in detail and its still a little bit confusing. Even so, this sim seems to do it very well!

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

Blottogg
05-15-2004, 09:51 AM
Like IceFire said, it's a system of distinguishing Staffels within a Jagdgeschwader (or JG), and individual aircraft within a Staffel, and I'm not real smart on it either. JG were actually closer to Allied Wings than Squadrons (though size and organization were a little different), and were destingushed by crests or symbols (like the "Green Hearts" of JG54.) These often changed during the war, sometimes frequently (tracking JG77 is a real pain.) The symbol behind the cross (~, -, | etc.) signifies the Staffel within the JG, while the one in front shows the aircraft's position within the Staffel. For example:

< shows the Staffel commander's aircraft, << the Geschwader commander (sometimes <<< )

<o shows the Staffel Technical Officer

1,2,3 etc. are for the flunkies in the Staffel, though pilots sometimes switched aircraft, or kept "lucky numbers" when they were promoted to commander

If you're interested in getting even more info, as well as utilities for modifying the markings in the game, here are a couple of links:

http://www.leigh-kemp.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/MATfiles.htm

http://magnum-pc.netfirms.com/mudmovers/Sims/FB/fb_essential_files.htm

Il-2 Mat and Mat Manager, and Il-2 Stab are both good utilities, though I'm still wrestling with Mat Manager trying to get it to work (it's more powerful, but more complicated, than Il-2 Stab.)

Blotto

"Speed is life." - Anon
"Sight is life. Speed is merely groovy." - "Junior"

edit out cute smiley face thing

Stefan-R
05-15-2004, 10:18 AM
Don't mix up "Gruppen" and "Staffeln"!

At the outbrake of the war a "Geschwader" had a "Geschwaderstab"(Geschwader-Staff)and 3 "Gruppen".
Each "Gruppe" had a "Gruppenstab" (Gruppen-Staff) and 3 "Staffeln".
The Staffs had arround 4 a/c's and each "Staffel" had about 12 a/c's (only theoretical numbers)

The "Gruppen" had roman numbers: I., II., and III.
The "Staffeln" had the numbers 1., 2., 3. (these were in "I. Gruppe"), 4., 5., 6. (these were in "II. Gruppe"), 7., 8., 9. (these were in "III. Gruppe").

To mark the a/c's of the different "Staffeln" and "Gruppen" the Luftwaffe used a system with colours and symbols:

Note: X is the individual a/c number of the "Staffel" (theoretical 1-12) and + the "Balkenkreuz".

I. Gruppe: X+
II. Gruppe: X+-
III. Gruppe: X+~ (somtimes X+|)

1. Staffel: white markings
2. Staffel: red markings
3. Staffel: yellow markings

4. Staffel: white markings
5. Staffel: red markings
6. Staffel: yellow markings

7. Staffel: white markings
8. Staffel: red markings
9. Staffel: yellow markings


Some examples:

Yellow 1+- is the first a/c of 6. Staffel, II. Gruppe

White 5+ is the fifth a/c of 1. Staffel, I. Gruppe

Red 3+~ is the third a/c of 8. Staffel, III. Gruppe


Some Geschwader used different colours and symbols.

_VR_ScorpionWorm
05-15-2004, 10:38 AM
Hey Blottogg, the newer version 1.51 of IL2Mat manager is easier to install than the previous versions. You just have to make sure you uninstall any older version completely.

"Soldiers, Sailors, and Airmen of the Allied Expeditionary force: You are about to embark upon a Great Crusade toward which we have strived these many months. The eyes of the world are upon you. Good Luck! And let us all beseech the blessing of Almighty God upon this great and noble undertaking" - Gen. Dwight D. Eiseinhower-Supreme Allied Commander.

www.vultures-row.com (http://www.vultures-row.com)