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View Full Version : fluorecent wake and exhaust flame!



Flydutch
06-20-2004, 03:21 AM
just read the "First hand account of japanese attack" posted by Jettexas.

And it made me aware of something importand

The ships would be vissible at night because of the fluorcent wake they leaf when sailing!

Just make the existing wake stand out at night time by turning up the brightnes and colour it fluorecent green!

Very handy for night landings as well!

Now the same method of finding A/C at night would be the blue flame from the engine exhaust, this is commented over and over again in story on the air war at night, also in the above article.

The flames are already used in the many rocket and jet fighters FB features now!

Who does not now the thrilling sight of the high performance piston engines flames when fired up or the long flame when a/c takeoff at night!?

It will give us a even change vs the A.I. pilots who are not botherded by night blindness! (Or Clouds or mist)

During the day you would see the enemy going full throtle because his exhuast would show black smoke also in use already by the Jets and rocket A/C!

Flydutch
06-20-2004, 03:21 AM
just read the "First hand account of japanese attack" posted by Jettexas.

And it made me aware of something importand

The ships would be vissible at night because of the fluorcent wake they leaf when sailing!

Just make the existing wake stand out at night time by turning up the brightnes and colour it fluorecent green!

Very handy for night landings as well!

Now the same method of finding A/C at night would be the blue flame from the engine exhaust, this is commented over and over again in story on the air war at night, also in the above article.

The flames are already used in the many rocket and jet fighters FB features now!

Who does not now the thrilling sight of the high performance piston engines flames when fired up or the long flame when a/c takeoff at night!?

It will give us a even change vs the A.I. pilots who are not botherded by night blindness! (Or Clouds or mist)

During the day you would see the enemy going full throtle because his exhuast would show black smoke also in use already by the Jets and rocket A/C!

Yellonet
06-20-2004, 05:28 AM
I believe that the fluorescence comes from some sort of plankton that is brought to the surface by the whirling water behind the ships.


- Yellonet

VF-17_Jolly
06-20-2004, 06:05 AM
Alright own up who`s been watching Apollo 13.. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://www.skyknights.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/jolly.jpg

GT182
06-20-2004, 08:49 AM
I betting the answer will be.... the gaming engine won't handle flouresent wakes nor the engine flame for startups and night flying.

"GT182" / "Stab/JG51_vonSpinmeister"
www.bombs-away.net (http://www.bombs-away.net)
"Fly to Survive, Survive to Fly"

stansdds
06-20-2004, 12:44 PM
Exhaust flames were added to aircraft in CFS2, but I think they were way over done. I have seen a number of WW II aircraft flying and being started, the flames are not really visible in the daytime, but in CFS2 the blue glow is visible.

taisto_s
06-20-2004, 03:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by stansdds:
Exhaust flames were added to aircraft in CFS2, but I think they were way over done. I have seen a number of WW II aircraft flying and being started, the flames are not really visible in the daytime, but in CFS2 the blue glow is visible.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Have you seen the extra material in the "battle of Britain" movie DVD? It shows a dramatic scene with REAL Hurricanes starting their engines, and one of them releases HUGE start up flames from the exhaust tubes! And it was filmed in daylight.

SkyChimp
06-20-2004, 03:59 PM
Flouresent wakes are neat. I'd never seen on until I started night-fishing on the Cesapeake Bay. The wakes of even a small fishing boat was suprisingly bright.

Regards,
http://members.cox.net/us.fighters/hellsig.jpg

Jettexas
06-20-2004, 10:36 PM
I was wondering when and if anyone would pick up on that little bit of info...and others that I found "sim relevant" in that account ...
Really like the bit about the "Jake" being used as scout, and the flare attacks too...

Kudos
S!

96th_Redfish
(aka Jettexas)

http://home.austin.rr.com/davislanedavis/il2sig4.jpg

McCallaway
06-21-2004, 07:52 AM
Indeed, fluorescent wakes would be a great addition, and way easier to do than say, the pitching of ships (well I don't know the code but it sure look that way).

Exhaust flames are another matter though.

BSS_Vidar
06-21-2004, 09:47 AM
That was one of my favorite quiet times on deployment. I use to go out to the fan-tail during "Darken ship" and watch the wake. It was like watching an intense lighting storm underneith you.

If 97,000 tons rolled over you, you'ld be mad an glow in the dark to. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

BSS_Vidar

Flydutch
06-23-2004, 08:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by stansdds:
Exhaust flames were added to aircraft in CFS2, but I think they were way over done. I have seen a number of WW II aircraft flying and being started, the flames are not really visible in the daytime, but in CFS2 the blue glow is visible.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have seen a Lockheed Super constelation (Four radial piston engine A/C disgned during WWII)take off at night you will be suprised about the huge and bright exhaust flames they look like after burners!
For the night fighters this was the most importand homing device even ifthey where talked or guided by radar towards their victim.
Not for nothing did they carry them selfs flame dampers/covers in order not to be seen by enemy rear gunners or to blind the night fighter crew themselfs!

Fliger747
06-23-2004, 09:59 AM
More than one aviator found his way back to the ship in the dark by spotting the wake, glowing against the sea. Whitecaps glow like that as well, but the plankton glow is a variable thing, depending on the conditions Sometimes you see it, sometimes not.

Night flying over water is instrument flying, I expect even most hard core simers won't be up for it, even Real Naval Aviators of the time were not enthused by the idea.

RCAF_Hawk2
06-24-2004, 09:56 AM
OT: Skychimp im not far off the bay . are you local to the bay

http://www16.brinkster.com/hawkspage/hawkssig.jpg
Your not getting my Buffalo wings

ddsflyer
06-25-2004, 09:56 AM
I have flown several radial engined planes where you can actually adjust your fuel/air mixture by watching the exhaust flame color at night. You use the E.G.T. to get it in the ballpark, then use the color to fine tune it. You try to get all the red out so that you have an all blue flame.

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JG27_Gundog
07-03-2004, 06:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by taisto_s:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by stansdds:
Exhaust flames were added to aircraft in CFS2, but I think they were way over done. I have seen a number of WW II aircraft flying and being started, the flames are not really visible in the daytime, but in CFS2 the blue glow is visible.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



Have you seen the extra material in the "battle of Britain" movie DVD? It shows a dramatic scene with REAL Hurricanes starting their engines, and one of them releases HUGE start up flames from the exhaust tubes! And it was filmed in daylight.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry to bring up this old thread but I just happened to have this picture and felt I should post it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://img32.exs.cx/img32/4546/exhaustflames.jpg

PlaneEater
07-03-2004, 09:43 AM
You know, I have The Battle of Britain on DVD, but I don't remember any extra scenes or deleted scenes or anything. Did I miss them?

Penguin_PFF
07-03-2004, 09:46 AM
Holy sh1t.

That looks almost like it's been Photoshopped...? Is that for real? Wait, I see it's at Airliners.net, I doubt they'd accept faked stuff...

(Anybody remember Eye Candy plug-ins?)

taisto_s
07-03-2004, 12:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PlaneEater:
You know, I have The Battle of Britain on DVD, but I don't remember any extra scenes or deleted scenes or anything. Did I miss them?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lots of great material on special edition DVD disc2!

taisto_s
07-03-2004, 12:10 PM
Its a MGM special edition DVD with a disc full of extra stuff like, Interviews of RAF fighter pilots , 22minutes documentary how the dogfight scenes were made and a original 60´s documentary on BOB starring and narrating Michael Cane! Amazing stuff!

|CoB|_Spectre
07-04-2004, 06:05 AM
"Stack fires" were a possibility during engine startup on those large engined aircraft. That's one reason to have a person on the ground standing "fire guard" with an extinguisher in case the standard procedure of dealing with it from the cockpit did not work. That photo of the Spit does look a bit surreal to me. Exhaust flames for night flying have been discussed from time to time since the debut of IL-2, but ask yourself one question:

Given the current state of muzzle flashes in FB as compared with the original, would you want to take a chance on exhaust flames that probably could not be separately modeled for day or night?

I think you can get some idea of what to expect by looking at the current Me-262 exhaust above 80% power. I don't notice any difference in its visibility in day or night flight. I'd rather see it left out than see aircraft running around in the daytime with a high-vis blue aura around their exhausts, but that's my opinion.

owlwatcher
07-04-2004, 06:16 AM
Flouresent wakes
Was reading;
The Glory of the Solomons by Edwin P Hoyt
Talked about slowing US DDs down to 23 knots so as not to leave the Flouresent wakes .

JG27_Gundog
07-04-2004, 07:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Penguin_PFF:
Holy sh1t.

That looks almost like it's been Photoshopped...? Is that for real? Wait, I see it's at Airliners.net, I doubt they'd accept faked stuff...

(Anybody remember Eye Candy plug-ins?)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, I did photoshop it. I made the original smaller so it would screw up the margines on this thread http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Here is the page where I originally found the photo.. It was taken by Phil Cooke. He has four full pages of aircraft photos there.
http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?&maxres=500&keywords=Phil%20Cooke&keywrange=all&nr_of_rows=68&first_this_page=45&page_limit=15&sort_order=photo_id+DESC&thumbnails=&engine_version=6.0&nr_pages=5&page=;;

http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?&maxres=500&keywords=Phil%20Cooke&keywrange=all&nr_of_rows=68&first_this_page=0&page_limit=15&sort_order=photo_id+DESC&thumbnails=&engine_version=6.0&nr_pages=5&page=;;;

[This message was edited by JG27_Gundog on Sun July 04 2004 at 06:29 AM.]

stansdds
07-10-2004, 08:05 PM
Exhaust flames such as that are not really a good thing. This was the result of unburned fuel entering the exhaust ports and combusting in the exhaust manifolds. Exhaust flames in CFS2 were highly visible in all lighting conditions. The exhaust flames in real aircraft are usually visible only at night or during startup when there is combustion of fuel in the exhaust manifolds.

|CoB|_Spectre
07-11-2004, 06:23 AM
The exhaust "flame" I believe they are talking about is the blue-ish flame visible in most all short exhaust stack engines under night conditions, not the yellow-ish flame associated with a wet start or timing malfunction. Apparently they were visibile enough that dedicated nightfighters usually incorporated some sort of exhaust flame suppression devices to reduce their visual signature.

stansdds
07-11-2004, 12:15 PM
Yes, at night the glow from the manifolds is visible, but not in daylight. In the mods done to CFS2 aircraft, the glow was visible even in bright daylight. When I upgraded aircraft in CFS2 I made sure to turn off that effect.

LeadSpitter_
07-11-2004, 01:15 PM
strange i just made this pic earlier.

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v97/acespace/p40spicture.jpg

http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v43/leadspitter/LSIG1.gif