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heywooood
04-06-2004, 11:08 PM
Ok - If you are familiar with FMB try this

Use any map - I used Kuban -and select a base near coast (for atmosphere)
Select the Brewster Buffalo (atmosphere)
select a vehicle - I used a willys jeep cause its small- you have assign waypoints so give it one - you want it parked near the end of the runway right at the turnout.
Takeoff or air start and fly an approach

When you get to about a quarter mile press Shift f5 or map a key to the j/stick - I did

the red triangle should "capture your jeep/LSO .. If it were an LSO figure you should be able to see him at this range..
I imagine that you could turn off the Red Triangle after you get proficient.. but for now its good ..
If a few simple motions by "paddles" were simulated (especially "cut" or waveoff) this will be cool..

Best to shoot touchand go's here even if you nail the touch point - just add power and go around again.. you will see marked improvement over a short time..

Keep playing with the point at which you toggle the LSO.. try to do it closer to the field each time and only use zoom view with it the first look (farthest away)

Think you will be able to see him?

heywooood
04-06-2004, 11:08 PM
Ok - If you are familiar with FMB try this

Use any map - I used Kuban -and select a base near coast (for atmosphere)
Select the Brewster Buffalo (atmosphere)
select a vehicle - I used a willys jeep cause its small- you have assign waypoints so give it one - you want it parked near the end of the runway right at the turnout.
Takeoff or air start and fly an approach

When you get to about a quarter mile press Shift f5 or map a key to the j/stick - I did

the red triangle should "capture your jeep/LSO .. If it were an LSO figure you should be able to see him at this range..
I imagine that you could turn off the Red Triangle after you get proficient.. but for now its good ..
If a few simple motions by "paddles" were simulated (especially "cut" or waveoff) this will be cool..

Best to shoot touchand go's here even if you nail the touch point - just add power and go around again.. you will see marked improvement over a short time..

Keep playing with the point at which you toggle the LSO.. try to do it closer to the field each time and only use zoom view with it the first look (farthest away)

Think you will be able to see him?

Tully__
04-07-2004, 08:09 AM
That LSO is going to be hard to see!!

Looking forward to a real carrier, this is going to be a very satisfying challenge to master http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

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heywooood
04-07-2004, 09:18 AM
yes - but - realistically so, I think.

also -the deck of the carrier is elevated 100' or so above the surface (sea) where these airfields are on the surface - so that might help.

Plus - you are really flying the approach on your own and dont really need the LSO - he will only be there as an immersion factor.. so this feature is really an option only.. most of us will only want to see the "cut" or "wave off" from him at the last second so we can cut power or firewall it and go 'round, right?

And when you set up this test in FMB - dont forget to enable padlocks - forgot to say that above.

Fliger747
04-07-2004, 12:30 PM
This is more or less like the "deck landing practice" used by the USN prior to going to "sea" for carrier qualificataion. An spot on the field corresponding to the landing area on a carrier was marked off and a LSO positioned portside, aft to both assist and evaluate the student pilots in this transition. It is good practice in spot landing and will greatly assist in aquiring this skill.

Even the primitive LSO in CFSII is of considerable assistance in fine glide path control. Especially when much of the view of te deck is blocked by the cowl or gunsite. A thing not modeled well is the ability for a pilot to crane his head to port to look more down the side of the cowl, improving the view of the LSO and the deck. This is a classic technique used in any "taildragger".

heywooood
04-07-2004, 02:02 PM
Fliger..

Did you think you would be able to see an LSO there?.. I used a jeep, but focused on the driver as i got closer..

Also - i tried to fly a curved approach from the LSO side ofthe deck - to keep that port wing low.. and maintain visual.. did you try that as well?..

And it felt like quality practice as i flew it over and over w/ touch n' go's - felt tlike i got better at it quickly

[This message was edited by heywooood on Wed April 07 2004 at 01:11 PM.]

Fliger747
04-07-2004, 11:46 PM
The real problem is that our screen resolution would not get us through any concievable flight physical! I expect that a lifesize LSO would be too small for utility.

An interesting concept, one that deserves some beta testing. If I get some time (won't happen soon) I'll try out YOUR idea to see how that looks.

A curved approach to the carrier helps with spatial orientation and is much easier to judge than a straight approach. Visibility f the carrier and the LSO is much better as well. I like to do full stop landings followed by a takoff and a close pattern. Repeat this for perhaps 8-10 traps and you will start to "get it". There are some "carrier squadrons" for CFS2 which have some good advice and info on how to fly a correct pattern.

heywooood
04-08-2004, 12:30 PM
Fliger -

I would love to know the results of any beta testing on this..

and if whether or not you are in favoer of the Manut Bol idea for LSO scale?.. you know a bigger and taller LSO to aid this method?..

(only slightly bigger than true scale) to minimize the Whinefactor

RAAF-IL2_Shark
04-08-2004, 10:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fliger747:
Even the primitive LSO in CFSII is of considerable assistance in fine glide path control. Especially when much of the view of te deck is blocked by the cowl or gunsite. A thing not modeled well is the ability for a pilot to crane his head to port to look more down the side of the cowl, improving the view of the LSO and the deck. This is a classic technique used in any "taildragger".<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oleg has the German "offset Gunsight" view already in FB, it must be possible to have a "crane head to port" view for carrier aircraft??I would probably use it on normal landings too from time to time. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
It would need to be a toggle function so you can flick back to normal view easily.

Hay LUTHIER how bout it!!!!!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif

heywooood
04-08-2004, 10:34 PM
You know - that is a headlean isnt it ?..

because the gunsite doesn't move when you use it.. hmmm

Good one.

heywooood
04-09-2004, 11:23 AM
After seeing the Avenger in the update I'm goint to switch from a Brewster to a P47 for these practice landings -

I suggest that if you are not already doing so - that you all begin working on your carrier approaches.. otherwise the whine will be deafening on opening day of PF..

The Brewster has really good low speed handleing BtW - a natural first choice for these practice hops.. or carrier quals. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

IV_JG51_Razor
04-10-2004, 07:42 AM
Heywoood, great idea! Unfortunately, I'm on the road with only a laptop so I can't try it. I thought of another thing you might take a look at. Try putting the jeep at the end of the runway(off to the side of course), and giving it a waypoint at the other end of the runway, and set the speed to something equivilant to 25 kts. Give your plane an airstart a click or two off the end of the strip with about 300m altitude. Now fly alongside the runway watching the jeep simulating the carrier deck. Pass by the jeep and give yourself a three or five count before initiating a left break to the downwind. See what it would look like to have the "deck" moving along at 25 kts, and planning your approach to touch down on the runway alongside the jeep!

I can't wait to get home to try this for myself. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Razor
IV/JG51 Intelligence Officer

"Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from poor judgement"

heywooood
04-10-2004, 09:24 PM
Razor your a friggin scientist.. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Gonna try that right now...

This setup as is, all stationary and whatnot, isn't easy.. each hop and approach is different with regard to my proficiency.. its easy to be too high http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gifor too low..etc.

trying to nail an approach and touch down in the right spot is tough..

Also - does anyone else have trouble executing a three-point landing?..

The planes dont like to settle in a nose high attitude, at least, in my experience..it is kinda hard to snag a wire when your tailhook isn't able to reach it.

If that is the case, and i feel pretty good about my flying, will it be adjusted in PF?

heywooood
04-10-2004, 09:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fliger747:
The real problem is that our screen resolution would not get us through any concievable flight physical! I expect that a lifesize LSO would be too small for utility.

An interesting concept, one that deserves some beta testing. If I get some time (won't happen soon) I'll try out YOUR idea to see how that looks.

A curved approach to the carrier helps with spatial orientation and is much easier to judge than a straight approach. Visibility f the carrier and the LSO is much better as well. I like to do full stop landings followed by a takoff and a close pattern. Repeat this for perhaps 8-10 traps and you will start to "get it". There are some "carrier squadrons" for CFS2 which have some good advice and info on how to fly a correct pattern.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Looks like the resolution issue might be addressed for spotting ships - maybe it will help the LSO visibility issue as well..?

IV_JG51_Razor
04-12-2004, 01:53 AM
How did you do Heywoood? I'm still out on the road, but I'm dying to get back home and try some of these "FCLPs"

I think that you will find it to be much easier if you establish a set of parameters such as altitude, airspeed, and configuration (gear, flaps, prop pitch, etc) for your landing approach (through a lot of trial and error) and then try to always be within those parameters for every landing.

Consistantly pass by yhe airfield at such xxx altitude, at xxx airspeed, with gear and flaps in such n such position. Make your turns in the same place relative to the "boat", at the same altitude and airspeed.

Besides learning how to make a successful carrier approach, you might even find that you're a better pilot for it! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Razor
IV/JG51 Intelligence Officer
www.jg51.net (http://www.jg51.net)

"Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from poor judgement"

heywooood
04-12-2004, 04:24 PM
Razor -

This is very difficult to master.

Just being consistently at the right alt. and speed on downwind - base and final legs over and over is a real challenge... I can see why carrier pilots look forward to deployment.. they get to stop practicing http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif..right.. do you guys even have time for d/f training or is it all about traps?

Seriously - I hope everyone is working on this or these boards are gonna be flooded with complaints about the difficulty..

Oh and BtW - yes my landings and overall control of the various types has improved much.

you know - another byproduct of these tests is that I am still playing with the keymapping to get the right flight controls where I want-em.

[This message was edited by heywooood on Mon April 12 2004 at 05:20 PM.]

[This message was edited by heywooood on Mon April 12 2004 at 06:43 PM.]