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Defalt221
02-07-2015, 05:52 PM
So, someone told me there's an Abstergo file in Rogue that says Connor had a messy end. I wonder..do they mean from an Abstergo perceptive that says that Connor killed all Templars but died failing to bring peace. Or does it mean he failed the Brotherhood and got killed by Templars?

Hans684
02-07-2015, 06:07 PM
His blond wife took their kid(s) with her when she left and he died alone.

GunnerGalactico
02-07-2015, 06:17 PM
He didn't die a horrific death. The Abstergo info just implied that he had a messed up life. That is all.


His blond wife took their kid(s) with her when she left and he died alone.

Exactly. I don't exactly see how that is terrible. Sure, I would've liked to have seen him live a happy life and die a content man because of all the things he has been through.

EDIT- But also, this information is from Abstergo and they sometimes like to twist things, and discredit the Assassins.

I-Like-Pie45
02-07-2015, 06:17 PM
Ok, this is what happened:

In 1807, He receives a letter of aid from Shay’s son, requesting his aid.

Shay’s son tells him that his sister has gone missing and his mother was murdered, and he suspects that a vengeful Assassin may have done it, for despite Connor’s order for the Assassins to leave Shay’s family alone, they were never forgiven.

After an investigation, Connor deduces that it was not an Assassin who took Shay’s daughter, but rather an independent party. In New York City, Connor spies a suspicious looking man named Alphonso Nickelston and tails him to his meeting with a corrupt Assassin. Connor assassinates them, and learns from Nickelston that Shay’s daughter is being held hostage in a stately manor in the New Jersey countryside.

Continuing his investigation, Connor learns that the man he seeks is Bryson Wagner, a wealthy but eccentric man who has spent many years abroad traveling the world and returned only in 1800 and that Alphonso was his loyal butler. Connor locates the manor, and with Shay’s son, travels there.

Splitting up in their search, Connor discovers a twisted menagerie of flora and fauna and an armor that Bryson Wagner gathered on his travels. More disturbing is when Connor stumbles on a room containing the corpses of three dead boys in varying states of decay. Meanwhile, Shay’s son discovers a secret stairway that leads to a mysterious structure built into a bat-filled cave, containing Assassin equipment and writings. Shay’s son finds Shay’s daughter, only to be ambushed by Bryson Wagner.

Bryson Wagner, dressed in a bat-like masquerade costume that belonged to his father and wielding a Chinese spear picked up on his travels, attacks Shay’s son and cuts off his hands. Bryson Wagner tells Shay’s son that when he was eight, Shay killed his parents in front of him just because they had given aid to Assassins he was pursuing and orphaned Bryson. Consumed by a desire for vengeance against the Templars, he traveled the world learning the ways of the Assassin from branches around the globe. In time, he learned of the Shroud of Eden, and sought to acquire it in hopes of bringing his dead parents back to life. However, Shay took care of the Shroud of Eden and sent it to places beyond Bryson’s reach, cementing his desire for vengeance against Shay.

However, when Bryson Wagner returned, he discovered that Shay had already been killed by Connor. With his chance for personal revenge gone, he decided to take revenge on Shay’s family by killing his family and indoctrinating his daughter into his personal servant and assistant in his war against the Templars as the ultimate “Assassin.” He reveals that he has already tried to turn three young boys into his aids, but they proved unworthy in training, and he deposed of them which is why he is trying Shay’s daughter, an older female, for a change.

Bryson Wagner kills Shay’s son by disemboweling him with the spear before ramming it through his chest, and drags Shay’s daughter back into the manor. He takes her into his menagerie, where he tells her about the power of bats as a symbol due to superstition. He puts her in front of a cage of vampire bats that he sent home from Central America, and asks if she wants to feed them, telling her it is join or die. He is about to rape her, saying that too much of her blood is dirty cause its Shays but he will put some of him in her to purify her. He declares that he is vengeance, he is the night, he is... However, before he can begin his nefarious deed, he is assassinated by Connor stealthily from behind who drags Bryson towards him with his rope dart before stabbing him with the hidden blade, who comments that Bryson should not leave his weapons out in the open for anyone to take.

The next day Shay’s daughter bids him farewell, and shows some romantic interest in him. Coincidentally, she is a blonde, but Connor tells her that it is not to be for he has already found another. She nods in acceptance, saying that she'll just have to find a man of her own then although she cannot imagine finding one nobler than Connor or her father, and they ride off in their separate ways. Secretly, she did Connor in the night while he was sleeping and is now bearing his bastard child. In the woods, Connor finds a place to sit and holding a feather, reflects on everything from the day his mother died to the day he rescued the daughter of an enemy from a delusional madman. Later, Abstergo takes this scene and heavily manipulates it, distorting it beyond any accuracy.

This was confirmed to me by Corey May himself.

Hans684
02-07-2015, 06:41 PM
Exactly. I don't exactly see how that is terrible. Sure, I would've liked to have seen him live a happy and die a content man because of all the things he has been through.

Can you blame her? Not everyone is going to take it lightly that their husband kills for a living.


But also, this information is from Abstergo and they sometimes like to twist things, and discredit the Assassins.

Nothing to benefit from it.

GunnerGalactico
02-07-2015, 06:47 PM
Can you blame her? Not everyone is going to take it lightly that their husband kills for a living.

No, I certainly wouldn't blame her at all. In AC3, Connor said so himself in one of the Homestead missions that he wouldn't be a good husband because he wouldn't have time to devote to a wife. That's probably what happened. Connor must have been too busy with his "work" and recruiting new Assassins that he did not spend enough time with his family. So his wife was probably like: "It's either me or the Brotherhood". So she packed off and left.

ze_topazio
02-07-2015, 07:52 PM
After his wife left him Connor remarried with a 20 year old smokin' hot Asian lady.


or maybe Patience Gibbs.

SpiritOfNevaeh
02-07-2015, 08:48 PM
After his wife left him Connor remarried with a 20 year old smokin' hot Asian lady.


or maybe Patience Gibbs.

Oh god, no! NO! PLEASE NO! ANYBODY BUT HER! Even Dobby OTL

JustPlainQuirky
02-07-2015, 10:34 PM
Looking at the title of this thread, i expected this thread to go in an entirely different direction.

On topic, i'm not gonna bother speculating because Ubi changes their mind a lot.

Fatal-Feit
02-08-2015, 03:31 AM
So, someone told me there's an Abstergo file in Rogue that says Connor had a messy end. I wonder..do they mean from an Abstergo perceptive that says that Connor killed all Templars but died failing to bring peace. Or does it mean he failed the Brotherhood and got killed by Templars?

As Hans said, Connor's blonde wife took their kid(s) and left him. Connor died alone, contemplating about what went wrong in his life.

It's however you see it, which you didn't and I wouldn't take it from an Abstergo perspective. A novel/short film or it's irrelevant, IMO.

STDlyMcStudpants
11-19-2015, 06:32 AM
The Abstergo story is t hat Connor murdered his wife....

VestigialLlama4
11-19-2015, 07:48 AM
The Abstergo story is t hat Connor murdered his wife....

Where?

RaggedTyper
11-19-2015, 09:46 AM
The Abstergo story is t hat Connor murdered his wife....

Out. Of. Character.

Hans684
11-19-2015, 10:03 AM
Regardless of what is is, one thing is curtain. He made his own tragedy.

VestigialLlama4
11-19-2015, 11:29 AM
He made his own tragedy.

Redundant much...the definition of tragic figures is that they make their own tragedy. You are not tragic if you get hit by a truck, you are just unlucky.

Tragic figures are those whose very nature, their positive characteristics and virtues lead to their end. Altair is a tragic figure ("If only I had the humility to say I've seen enough for one life...but then there's no greater glory that searching for the truth"), Achilles is a tragic figure and so is Connor. In fact the Kenways are tragic heroes/villains...Edward undone by Hubris, Haytham undone by his commitment to duty and Connor by his desire for justice.

cawatrooper9
11-19-2015, 03:45 PM
Redundant much...the definition of tragic figures is that they make their own tragedy. You are not tragic if you get hit by a truck, you are just unlucky.

Tragic figures are those whose very nature, their positive characteristics and virtues lead to their end. Altair is a tragic figure ("If only I had the humility to say I've seen enough for one life...but then there's no greater glory that searching for the truth"), Achilles is a tragic figure and so is Connor. In fact the Kenways are tragic heroes/villains...Edward undone by Hubris, Haytham undone by his commitment to duty and Connor by his desire for justice.

I think he was just making a play on words off of Shay's stupid catchphrase.

Speaking of which, I'd add Shay to the list of tragic figures, in that as someone so cleverly pointed out in these forums, his phrase "I make my own luck" is in stark contrast to how flip-floppy and prone to suggestion he is.

VestigialLlama4
11-19-2015, 06:34 PM
Speaking of which, I'd add Shay to the list of tragic figures, in that as someone so cleverly pointed out in these forums, his phrase "I make my own luck" is in stark contrast to how flip-floppy and prone to suggestion he is.

To be a tragic figure as per ancient and modern definitions, you need to face consequences of certain choices that you made with full awareness and ability. You need to also have a capacity to recognize these actions and choices, and have a certain self-awareness and acknowledgement. Shay Cormac doesn't have that at all, he lacks that self-awareness so he can't really be a tragic figure.

Basically Shay is this unlucky guy who followed orders and tried to be part of this group and seek validation...then when that goes wrong he finds another group to seek validation from. That's not tragic at all, since he doesn't learn, doesn't reflect nor gains self-awareness and recognition. It's just a big case of "I told you so". In ROGUE, Achilles and his assassins are the tragic figures. They do what every other Assassin before them did, they are genuinely decent types for the most part and thanks to the worst possible luck, they end up suffering solely because of their loyalty and commitment to that cause. In any other era and place, Achilles would have been a great mentor and his brotherhood would have been a success. Achilles at the end of Rogue is this totally disillusioned and broken failure, burdened by the knowledge that he led his disciples into death because of this one lapse in judgment and yet you understand why he made that call since after all Altair and Ezio messed with these powerful First Civ objects and nothing bad happened to them, so he had good reasons to act the way he did and disregard Shay, especaillly since the latter shouted and wasn't willing to explain anything.

Among the Assassins, I would call Altair a tragic figure, Connor definitely, also Edward Kenway. All three of them made certain choices and faced consequences because of their nature and who they were. In Unity, I'd say Pierre Bellec and Elise were tragic figures. In Syndicate, Crawford Starrick, Maxwell Roth and Pearl Attaway are tragic figures among the Templars. In Black Flag you have Mary Read, Blackbeard, Hornigold, Charles Vane, Black Bart among characters who you can certainly consider tragic or having tragic aspects ot them.

Defalt221
11-19-2015, 06:58 PM
CONCLUSION: Ubisoft is obssessed with tragic stuff in AC games.

Btw, I didn't expect such an old thread of mine to be revived... :)

ERICATHERINE
11-19-2015, 07:01 PM
To be a tragic figure as per ancient and modern definitions, you need to face consequences of certain choices that you made with full awareness and ability. You need to also have a capacity to recognize these actions and choices, and have a certain self-awareness and acknowledgement. Shay Cormac doesn't have that at all, he lacks that self-awareness so he can't really be a tragic figure.

Basically Shay is this unlucky guy who followed orders and tried to be part of this group and seek validation...then when that goes wrong he finds another group to seek validation from. That's not tragic at all, since he doesn't learn, doesn't reflect nor gains self-awareness and recognition. It's just a big case of "I told you so". In ROGUE, Achilles and his assassins are the tragic figures. They do what every other Assassin before them did, they are genuinely decent types for the most part and thanks to the worst possible luck, they end up suffering solely because of their loyalty and commitment to that cause. In any other era and place, Achilles would have been a great mentor and his brotherhood would have been a success. Achilles at the end of Rogue is this totally disillusioned and broken failure, burdened by the knowledge that he led his disciples into death because of this one lapse in judgment and yet you understand why he made that call since after all Altair and Ezio messed with these powerful First Civ objects and nothing bad happened to them, so he had good reasons to act the way he did and disregard Shay, especaillly since the latter shouted and wasn't willing to explain anything.

Among the Assassins, I would call Altair a tragic figure, Connor definitely, also Edward Kenway. All three of them made certain choices and faced consequences because of their nature and who they were. In Unity, I'd say Pierre Bellec and Elise were tragic figures. In Syndicate, Crawford Starrick, Maxwell Roth and Pearl Attaway are tragic figures among the Templars. In Black Flag you have Mary Read, Blackbeard, Hornigold, Charles Vane, Black Bart among characters who you can certainly consider tragic or having tragic aspects ot them.

Is Ezio a tragic figure? ^-^

Edit. Or aveline? ^-^

VestigialLlama4
11-19-2015, 07:36 PM
Is Ezio a tragic figure? ^-^

In some ways Ezio fits in terms of surface details and origins, but ultimately he isn't one. Ezio is basically not a guy with a lot of ambition or yearnings, he doesn't have anything truly at stake, and to be tragic you need to have those attributes. Altair, Connor and Edward had those qualities. Ezio doesn't. He's the guy who had the good life and he wanted to be happy and have fun. When something bad happens to him, Ezio wants revenge but on a deeper level, he wants to go back to that happiness and lightness, so the Assassin life is about that spirit of adventure for him. And because something bad happened to take his happiness away, it brings out his altruistic self of wanting to make other people happy and safe, and protect them from those who abuse them.

Ezio's triumph is that even though he was frustrated by some of the First Civilization mysteries and that ultimately he's a messenger for some guy he will never meet or comprehend, he still finds value in his life and his actions nonetheless. He does it by assimilating Altair's lessons, "I've seen enough for one life". Ezio was a guy with a happy childhood and family, that got taken from him and so he finds replacements for that family life he lost in the Brotherhood, and then he marries and starts his own family again. You can say that he died of old age but the death of an old man is not a tragedy by itself, especially since Ezio lived a full life.

As for Aveline...I don't know enough about her to comment since I never played Liberation and only saw some cutscenes here and there.

cawatrooper9
11-19-2015, 07:57 PM
In some ways Ezio fits in terms of surface details and origins, but ultimately he isn't one. Ezio is basically not a guy with a lot of ambition or yearnings, he doesn't have anything truly at stake, and to be tragic you need to have those attributes. Altair, Connor and Edward had those qualities. Ezio doesn't. He's the guy who had the good life and he wanted to be happy and have fun. When something bad happens to him, Ezio wants revenge but on a deeper level, he wants to go back to that happiness and lightness, so the Assassin life is about that spirit of adventure for him. And because something bad happened to take his happiness away, it brings out his altruistic self of wanting to make other people happy and safe, and protect them from those who abuse them.


In fact, I think there are two times that Ezio could've been considered a tragic figure, but he turned the tables on themselves.

First, was the fight in the Vault with Rodrigo. While in the Sistine Chapel, Ezio (who was defined by revenge throughout much of the game) says "I thought I was beyond this". Now, we don't know exactly how things would've worked out had Rodrigo really been killed then, but Ezio gets his second chance since the pope was not truly killed, and he uses it to beat Rodrigo into submission (but ultimately spare his life).

Then, in retaliation, the Borgia attack. Whether or not Machiavelli was right in that the attack was partially due to Ezio's sparing the pope is certainly up for debate- but if it was, and if Ezio had fallen then, then his mercy would've been his hamartia.

ERICATHERINE
11-19-2015, 11:44 PM
In some ways Ezio fits in terms of surface details and origins, but ultimately he isn't one. Ezio is basically not a guy with a lot of ambition or yearnings, he doesn't have anything truly at stake, and to be tragic you need to have those attributes. Altair, Connor and Edward had those qualities. Ezio doesn't. He's the guy who had the good life and he wanted to be happy and have fun. When something bad happens to him, Ezio wants revenge but on a deeper level, he wants to go back to that happiness and lightness, so the Assassin life is about that spirit of adventure for him. And because something bad happened to take his happiness away, it brings out his altruistic self of wanting to make other people happy and safe, and protect them from those who abuse them.

Ezio's triumph is that even though he was frustrated by some of the First Civilization mysteries and that ultimately he's a messenger for some guy he will never meet or comprehend, he still finds value in his life and his actions nonetheless. He does it by assimilating Altair's lessons, "I've seen enough for one life". Ezio was a guy with a happy childhood and family, that got taken from him and so he finds replacements for that family life he lost in the Brotherhood, and then he marries and starts his own family again. You can say that he died of old age but the death of an old man is not a tragedy by itself, especially since Ezio lived a full life.

As for Aveline...I don't know enough about her to comment since I never played Liberation and only saw some cutscenes here and there.

Ok, for Aveline, but for Ezio, I was talking about him seeing his father and brothers dying. XD

cawatrooper9
11-19-2015, 11:52 PM
Ok, for Aveline, but for Ezio, I was talking about him seeing his father and brothers dying. XD

Aveline doesn't really fail, so she can't really be tragic. But if she had, it would almost certainly be her blindness and trust toward her family.

VestigialLlama4
11-20-2015, 04:07 AM
Ok, for Aveline, but for Ezio, I was talking about him seeing his father and brothers dying. XD

Having bad things happen to you, that alone, does not make you a tragic character. Like Harry Potter is certainly not a tragic character even if bad things happen to him. Nor are Luke Skywalker or Han Solo tragic characters.

The word tragedy is abused a lot but tragedy and tragic figures refers specifically to choices, consequences and how they relate to character.

flavorcountry19
11-20-2015, 04:20 AM
All this talk about Connor really makes me want another Connor game really badly! And I want to play AC 3 even more now!

i tried playing it through PlayStation now but....its just hard to play it with such bad frame rate and detail to items! And there are so many other things that need to be fixed!

ERICATHERINE
11-20-2015, 05:18 AM
Aveline doesn't really fail, so she can't really be tragic. But if she had, it would almost certainly be her blindness and trust toward her family.

Well I'm not too sure about that. Aveline first is seperated of her mother to later learn that she is a slave, even after being liberated. Then Aveline learn that not only did her father died, but also that she was not there for him in his last moment (because she wanted to kill the "grandmaster" of this Templar order). Then, she learn that the person she have to kill next is her step mother. She even saw her mentor (which accepted her in the Assassin brotherhood since she was a little girl) kill himself right in front of her. So, in the end, out of the 5 persons she liked the most in her life, only one is left, which I'm not sure if it's tragic or not, because even if she lost nearly everything, I must say that it could have been worst if her boyfriend would have been dead at the end of the game.

So, can one of you tell me if Aveline is a tragic figure while considering these info on her? ^-^

@cawatrooper9. Yes I know you just answered, but for me, your answer looks like a "maybe". XD

VestigialLlama4
11-20-2015, 05:37 AM
Well I'm not too sure about that. Aveline first is seperated of her mother to later learn that she is a slave, even after being liberated. Then Aveline learn that not only did her father died, but also that she was not there for him in his last moment (because she wanted to kill the "grandmaster" of this Templar order). Then, she learn that the person she have to kill next is her step mother. She even saw her mentor (which accepted her in the Assassin brotherhood since she was a little girl) kill himself right in front of her. So, in the end, out of the 5 persons she liked the most in her life, only one is left, which I'm not sure if it's tragic or not, because even if she lost nearly everything, I must say that it could have been worst if her boyfriend would have been dead at the end of the game.

So, can one of you tell me if Aveline is a tragic figure while considering these info on her? ^-^

I'd say no. Because there is an absence of yearning and ambition there. Altair wanted to be the best Assassin and later, learn true wisdom, Connor wanted to protect his people and his village, Edward Kenway wanted to be rich and become a man of quality to provide for his wife. Each of them had these things that they wanted but because of circumstances, their flaws which are so close to their strengths, the actions that they take prevent them from achieving these goals. Altair learned "He who increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow", Connor learned that he "strives for that which does not exist" and Edward finds out "here's not a man or woman I love left standing beside me".

With Aveline, she lost her family, finds out she doesn't have one and keeps being betrayed. That makes her an Ingenue in the tradition of 18th and 19th Century novels, it does not make her tragic because she doesn't have specific goals and ambitions for herself.

Defalt221
11-20-2015, 12:52 PM
I suppose the entire series is tragic. Even Ubisoft has tragically become obssessed with annualization. AC franchise has been tragically transformed into a series of "good enough" (but not exceeding that quality) type games (in contrast to when Ubisoft used to really squeeze all their efforts into one gme instead of dividing into 3 serapate games being simultaneously developed).

VestigialLlama4
11-20-2015, 01:03 PM
I suppose the entire series is tragic. Even Ubisoft has tragically become obssessed with annualization. AC franchise has been tragically transformed into a series of "good enough" (but not exceeding that quality) type games (in contrast to when Ubisoft used to really squeeze all their efforts into one gme instead of dividing into 3 serapate games being simultaneously developed).

Again, only AC3 can be properly considered tragic in that light. It was a game that tried and strove heroically and yet it did not succeed fully.. Unity can't be called tragic because it did not have drive or ambition. What does old Karl Marx say, first time as tragedy (AC3), second time as farce (Unity). And if the Franchise of AC can be considered tragic, than Ubisoft can't be the heroes, the true tragic hero is Patrice Desilets.

ERICATHERINE
11-20-2015, 02:57 PM
I'd say no. Because there is an absence of yearning and ambition there. Altair wanted to be the best Assassin and later, learn true wisdom, Connor wanted to protect his people and his village, Edward Kenway wanted to be rich and become a man of quality to provide for his wife. Each of them had these things that they wanted but because of circumstances, their flaws which are so close to their strengths, the actions that they take prevent them from achieving these goals. Altair learned "He who increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow", Connor learned that he "strives for that which does not exist" and Edward finds out "here's not a man or woman I love left standing beside me".

With Aveline, she lost her family, finds out she doesn't have one and keeps being betrayed. That makes her an Ingenue in the tradition of 18th and 19th Century novels, it does not make her tragic because she doesn't have specific goals and ambitions for herself.

Well Aveline found wisdom too because of Connor.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sU6dbTz8HkU

In this video she finds it between 14:10 and 14:45.

So, with this wisdow, is-she a tragic figure? ^-^

cawatrooper9
11-20-2015, 03:16 PM
Well I'm not too sure about that. Aveline first is seperated of her mother to later learn that she is a slave, even after being liberated. Then Aveline learn that not only did her father died, but also that she was not there for him in his last moment (because she wanted to kill the "grandmaster" of this Templar order). Then, she learn that the person she have to kill next is her step mother. She even saw her mentor (which accepted her in the Assassin brotherhood since she was a little girl) kill himself right in front of her. So, in the end, out of the 5 persons she liked the most in her life, only one is left, which I'm not sure if it's tragic or not, because even if she lost nearly everything, I must say that it could have been worst if her boyfriend would have been dead at the end of the game.

So, can one of you tell me if Aveline is a tragic figure while considering these info on her? ^-^

@cawatrooper9. Yes I know you just answered, but for me, your answer looks like a "maybe". XD

Nah, sorry if my answer was ambiguous, but it's definitely not a maybe. Aveline ends up quite victorious in the end (and honestly, she doesn't seem all that broken up about killing Madeline, even). She's not a tragic hero. Tragedy happened to her, to be sure, but she's not by definition a tragic hero.

VestigialLlama4
11-20-2015, 03:41 PM
Well Aveline found wisdom too because of Connor.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sU6dbTz8HkU

In this video she finds it between 14:10 and 14:45.

So, with this wisdow, is-she a tragic figure? ^-^

You know what, I am not the tragedy police. I merely expressed specific reasons why certain characters don't fit in the definition of tragedy and I explained that general definition. Ultimately it doesn't matter if I don't think Aveline is tragic or not. I don't have an opinion it's up to you to figure and argue why she does fit in or not.

I haven't played Liberation so I can't comment.

Besides being tragic is only a statement of a certain character. It doesn't mean that you are uncool if you are not tragic. Ezio is not tragic, neither are the Frye Twins and they have a following.

STDlyMcStudpants
11-21-2015, 02:54 AM
Out. Of. Character.
Of course its out of character.. its the abstergo story...

aging murderer meditates over a lock of her blond hair

RegeRoka
12-27-2015, 03:53 PM
I believe Arno could be considered as a tragic character too.

VestigialLlama4
12-27-2015, 06:15 PM
I believe Arno could be considered as a tragic character too.

Not really. He lacks an inner drive, a certain goal and doesn't stake himself or suffer consequences. To be a tragic character you have to put yourself on line and risk getting burned and when you get burned you handle the heat and/or succumb to it with dignity.

With Arno, the only thing he stakes himself for is Elise but I don't think his love for her is tragic at all because he doesn't choose that love over something of equal value to him. Romeo and Juliet are tragic because they chose each other over their families which they both cared for a great deal. Arno doesn't have that external conflict, his Dad and Elise's Dad were pals, Friendly Assassins and Friendly Templars are totally tight with each other. Mirabeau looks at Arno and Elise and he basically looks set to marry them right then and there. There is not a lot of misunderstanding between Arno and Elise each other. The only complicated thing in that relationship is...gasp...Elise has goals separate from her relationship with her boyfriend.

The tragic individual in UNITY is not Arno Dorian, it is Pierre Bellec and Elise. Arno is more an observer and participator in their tragedy then he is a tragic figure himself.

RegeRoka
12-27-2015, 08:38 PM
Not really. He lacks an inner drive, a certain goal and doesn't stake himself or suffer consequences. To be a tragic character you have to put yourself on line and risk getting burned and when you get burned you handle the heat and/or succumb to it with dignity.

With Arno, the only thing he stakes himself for is Elise but I don't think his love for her is tragic at all because he doesn't choose that love over something of equal value to him. Romeo and Juliet are tragic because they chose each other over their families which they both cared for a great deal. Arno doesn't have that external conflict, his Dad and Elise's Dad were pals, Friendly Assassins and Friendly Templars are totally tight with each other. Mirabeau looks at Arno and Elise and he basically looks set to marry them right then and there. There is not a lot of misunderstanding between Arno and Elise each other. The only complicated thing in that relationship is...gasp...Elise has goals separate from her relationship with her boyfriend.

The tragic individual in UNITY is not Arno Dorian, it is Pierre Bellec and Elise. Arno is more an observer and participator in their tragedy then he is a tragic figure himself.

Yes, I guess you are right. I thought he could be tragic because his only drive was indeed Élise, and he wanted to protect her at all cost(which is a good trait from the character's point of view). And his obsession was kind of responsible for her death too. But I'm good with your explanation as well, thanks!

eyanvenom
12-27-2015, 10:00 PM
Ok, this is what happened:

In 1807, He receives a letter of aid from Shay’s son, requesting his aid.

Shay’s son tells him that his sister has gone missing and his mother was murdered, and he suspects that a vengeful Assassin may have done it, for despite Connor’s order for the Assassins to leave Shay’s family alone, they were never forgiven.

After an investigation, Connor deduces that it was not an Assassin who took Shay’s daughter, but rather an independent party. In New York City, Connor spies a suspicious looking man named Alphonso Nickelston and tails him to his meeting with a corrupt Assassin. Connor assassinates them, and learns from Nickelston that Shay’s daughter is being held hostage in a stately manor in the New Jersey countryside.

Continuing his investigation, Connor learns that the man he seeks is Bryson Wagner, a wealthy but eccentric man who has spent many years abroad traveling the world and returned only in 1800 and that Alphonso was his loyal butler. Connor locates the manor, and with Shay’s son, travels there.

Splitting up in their search, Connor discovers a twisted menagerie of flora and fauna and an armor that Bryson Wagner gathered on his travels. More disturbing is when Connor stumbles on a room containing the corpses of three dead boys in varying states of decay. Meanwhile, Shay’s son discovers a secret stairway that leads to a mysterious structure built into a bat-filled cave, containing Assassin equipment and writings. Shay’s son finds Shay’s daughter, only to be ambushed by Bryson Wagner.

Bryson Wagner, dressed in a bat-like masquerade costume that belonged to his father and wielding a Chinese spear picked up on his travels, attacks Shay’s son and cuts off his hands. Bryson Wagner tells Shay’s son that when he was eight, Shay killed his parents in front of him just because they had given aid to Assassins he was pursuing and orphaned Bryson. Consumed by a desire for vengeance against the Templars, he traveled the world learning the ways of the Assassin from branches around the globe. In time, he learned of the Shroud of Eden, and sought to acquire it in hopes of bringing his dead parents back to life. However, Shay took care of the Shroud of Eden and sent it to places beyond Bryson’s reach, cementing his desire for vengeance against Shay.

However, when Bryson Wagner returned, he discovered that Shay had already been killed by Connor. With his chance for personal revenge gone, he decided to take revenge on Shay’s family by killing his family and indoctrinating his daughter into his personal servant and assistant in his war against the Templars as the ultimate “Assassin.” He reveals that he has already tried to turn three young boys into his aids, but they proved unworthy in training, and he deposed of them which is why he is trying Shay’s daughter, an older female, for a change.

Bryson Wagner kills Shay’s son by disemboweling him with the spear before ramming it through his chest, and drags Shay’s daughter back into the manor. He takes her into his menagerie, where he tells her about the power of bats as a symbol due to superstition. He puts her in front of a cage of vampire bats that he sent home from Central America, and asks if she wants to feed them, telling her it is join or die. He is about to rape her, saying that too much of her blood is dirty cause its Shays but he will put some of him in her to purify her. He declares that he is vengeance, he is the night, he is... However, before he can begin his nefarious deed, he is assassinated by Connor stealthily from behind who drags Bryson towards him with his rope dart before stabbing him with the hidden blade, who comments that Bryson should not leave his weapons out in the open for anyone to take.

The next day Shay’s daughter bids him farewell, and shows some romantic interest in him. Coincidentally, she is a blonde, but Connor tells her that it is not to be for he has already found another. She nods in acceptance, saying that she'll just have to find a man of her own then although she cannot imagine finding one nobler than Connor or her father, and they ride off in their separate ways. Secretly, she did Connor in the night while he was sleeping and is now bearing his bastard child. In the woods, Connor finds a place to sit and holding a feather, reflects on everything from the day his mother died to the day he rescued the daughter of an enemy from a delusional madman. Later, Abstergo takes this scene and heavily manipulates it, distorting it beyond any accuracy.

This was confirmed to me by Corey May himself.

Thank you for sharing. Btw, was this from the AC3 Book? Where was this detailed?

SpiritOfNevaeh
12-31-2015, 02:23 PM
Thank you for sharing. Btw, was this from the AC3 Book? Where was this detailed?

This is from the infamous Pie.

Never take anything he says here seriously, no matter how believable it may look, unless there's undeniable truth behind it.

Just a heads up :P

Defalt221
12-31-2015, 06:33 PM
I seriously hope we get a good closure to Connor, Arno, Aveline and Shay.

I-Like-Pie45
12-31-2015, 08:03 PM
This is from the infamous Pie.



I am no pie, I am a bear

ze_topazio
12-31-2015, 08:19 PM
I suspect that Connor at the end of his life died.

SpiritOfNevaeh
01-01-2016, 02:57 AM
I seriously hope we get a good closure to Connor, Arno, Aveline and Shay.

You're not alone, man :)


I suspect that Connor at the end of his life died.

No way! Really?

I thought he died and was reincarnated as Desmond Miles's son :rolleyes:

Defalt221
01-01-2016, 05:26 AM
No no. He found Charles Lee.. that's the purpose of Connor's life. With Lee gone, Connor is gone. Unless we get Assassin's Crreed: Sarah Conor Kenway chronicles.

ERICATHERINE
01-01-2016, 04:15 PM
Who wants another game with Ezio? :rolleyes:

SpiritOfNevaeh
01-01-2016, 11:34 PM
Who wants another game with Ezio? :rolleyes:

I will quit the series if that happened. Ezio's dead... and he's not the god of AC, so there :rolleyes:

I've never preordered a game before, but if Ubisoft wants that to happen and even get more of my money, a Connor sequel must be CONFIRMED, then I will order the most expensive version of their next game (Collector's Edition, Special Edition, etc.), and maybe even all of the old games when/if they get remastered.

Scout's honor

I-Like-Pie45
01-02-2016, 12:50 AM
why don't you buy me a copy too then

ERICATHERINE
01-02-2016, 02:12 AM
why don't you buy me a copy too then

I didn't think the bears had electricity or money to buy it or a console. Am I right? Because if so, a/some games would be useless for you. XD

ERICATHERINE
01-02-2016, 02:23 AM
I will quit the series if that happened. Ezio's dead... and he's not the god of AC, so there :rolleyes:

Well I know I was joking, but after having reading myself another time, I didn't said that we would control Ezio, IN THIS GAME. So thechnicaly, it could be that the game I was talking about would make us control someone else like Yusuf or Claudia while giving us an appearence of Ezio. Now that I think about it, it could be just like the training with Ezio in ac chronicles China. :p

SpiritOfNevaeh
01-02-2016, 03:05 AM
Well I know I was joking, but after having reading myself another time, I didn't said that we would control Ezio, IN THIS GAME. So thechnicaly, it could be that the game I was talking about would make us control someone else like Yusuf or Claudia while giving us an appearence of Ezio. Now that I think about it, it could be just like the training with Ezio in ac chronicles China. :p

Lol point taken.

ERICATHERINE
01-02-2016, 03:46 AM
Lol point taken.

^v^

eyanvenom
01-02-2016, 03:34 PM
I seriously hope we get a good closure to Connor, Arno, Aveline and Shay.

I always have wished that the next AC would feature Connor & Aveline vs. Shay. Play an Assassin campaign and a Templar campaign, with their own endings to their story.

SpiritOfNevaeh
01-02-2016, 06:20 PM
I always have wished that the next AC would feature Connor & Aveline vs. Shay. Play an Assassin campaign and a Templar campaign, with their own endings to their story.

A templar campaign AND an assassin campaign in one game?

That is actually not a bad idea.

GunnerGalactico
01-02-2016, 06:50 PM
A templar campaign AND an assassin campaign in one game?

That is actually not a bad idea.

Not a bad idea indeed. Ever since Ubi introduced us to two playable protagonists (Jacob and Evie of course), I always wondered what it would be like if they did something similar... whereby one protagonist is an Assassin and the other one a Templar. It would be interesting to see how they handle that one. I know it's a crazy idea. :p

Megas_Doux
01-02-2016, 06:56 PM
My MAIN gripe against it is that fact I feel super tired of the XVIII century.

CrossedEagle
01-02-2016, 08:50 PM
I'm sick of the eighteenth century, North America, and Europe at the moment but if they brought some closure to some of the stories I wouldn't mind a sequel.