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View Full Version : Tried the patch, read the posts, here's some clarification...



XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 05:52 PM
First off...I was eagerly awaiting the 1.1b patch because I am an avid fan of IL-2 and I have enjoyed every upgrade thus far as an enhancement to the original (not to mention extra plane bonuses and the like). Specifically though, I was so happy with Forgotten Battles I only had one gripe that I was waiting to see fixed - the absolute lethality of the AI. I am of course speaking of enemy head-on attacks always ending in my defeat (on their first shot!), ship and AAA pinpoint accuracy, and the general feeling that even if I was flying a Me-262, my adversary in a I-16 would still be flying circles around me (exaggeration lol).


So, I applied the patch and started the game up. It wasn't long before I noted a very disappointing problem. **With limited realism settings invoked the game apparently ignores those settings. In particular with STALLS disabled aircraft still stall, buck, kick and fall out of the sky just as if full realism settings were enabled.


Now before this post gets ridiculed by the masses of "real pilots" out there, let me state a few more facts. I run the game with varying degrees of difficulty. I am not a "real pilot" who knows how to "really fly" but I am an avid aviation fan since childhood, a computer simulation-aholic since using my first computer as a teen (long time ago), and I am a history buff as well. My point, I aspire to be adept at flying IL-2 planes at full realism settings full-time. However there are times when you might want to disconnect the brain and just zip into a maelstrom of fighters locked in combat without regard for red-outs, black-outs, and stalls (these are the realism settings I disable 90% of the time by the way). Additionally there are people (I'm sure), who don't have the time, energy, or desire to learn all of the ins and outs of every plane in IL-2. For them, "easy" settings are a way of making the strafing of a column of tanks in a P-47 an accessible experience. And by the way, this is of paramount concern if one desires to make a computer "game" appetizing to the masses - else it be labeled too difficult, with limited fan support - ergo dollars - and you don't see products like its kind anymore.


In closing I'd like to say that I posted this to address the patch, some of the negative feedback on the patch that I saw posted (which I thought was offensive), some of the replies to negative feedback (which I thought were equally offensive), and as a suggestion for others in agreement with my findings and perspective...

So, many thanks to Maddox Games for the best flight simulation to date - I hope it continues to grow into an even greater piece of coding greatness. For now though, I will do a little more testing of the 1.1b patch, but I fully expect that I will remove the game, reload the original FB, and wait for the next upgrade/patch.



My system:

Pentium 4 @ 1.4 Ghz
256 RDRAM (upgrading to 512 very soon)
nVIDIA Ti4400 W/128 MB


Other notables:

Frames seem to hang more often
-in dogfights at the squeeze of trigger frame freezes
for an extended time

Smoke rendering a little slow/glitchy
-noticed smoke from train didn't materialize until
almost overhead

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 05:52 PM
First off...I was eagerly awaiting the 1.1b patch because I am an avid fan of IL-2 and I have enjoyed every upgrade thus far as an enhancement to the original (not to mention extra plane bonuses and the like). Specifically though, I was so happy with Forgotten Battles I only had one gripe that I was waiting to see fixed - the absolute lethality of the AI. I am of course speaking of enemy head-on attacks always ending in my defeat (on their first shot!), ship and AAA pinpoint accuracy, and the general feeling that even if I was flying a Me-262, my adversary in a I-16 would still be flying circles around me (exaggeration lol).


So, I applied the patch and started the game up. It wasn't long before I noted a very disappointing problem. **With limited realism settings invoked the game apparently ignores those settings. In particular with STALLS disabled aircraft still stall, buck, kick and fall out of the sky just as if full realism settings were enabled.


Now before this post gets ridiculed by the masses of "real pilots" out there, let me state a few more facts. I run the game with varying degrees of difficulty. I am not a "real pilot" who knows how to "really fly" but I am an avid aviation fan since childhood, a computer simulation-aholic since using my first computer as a teen (long time ago), and I am a history buff as well. My point, I aspire to be adept at flying IL-2 planes at full realism settings full-time. However there are times when you might want to disconnect the brain and just zip into a maelstrom of fighters locked in combat without regard for red-outs, black-outs, and stalls (these are the realism settings I disable 90% of the time by the way). Additionally there are people (I'm sure), who don't have the time, energy, or desire to learn all of the ins and outs of every plane in IL-2. For them, "easy" settings are a way of making the strafing of a column of tanks in a P-47 an accessible experience. And by the way, this is of paramount concern if one desires to make a computer "game" appetizing to the masses - else it be labeled too difficult, with limited fan support - ergo dollars - and you don't see products like its kind anymore.


In closing I'd like to say that I posted this to address the patch, some of the negative feedback on the patch that I saw posted (which I thought was offensive), some of the replies to negative feedback (which I thought were equally offensive), and as a suggestion for others in agreement with my findings and perspective...

So, many thanks to Maddox Games for the best flight simulation to date - I hope it continues to grow into an even greater piece of coding greatness. For now though, I will do a little more testing of the 1.1b patch, but I fully expect that I will remove the game, reload the original FB, and wait for the next upgrade/patch.



My system:

Pentium 4 @ 1.4 Ghz
256 RDRAM (upgrading to 512 very soon)
nVIDIA Ti4400 W/128 MB


Other notables:

Frames seem to hang more often
-in dogfights at the squeeze of trigger frame freezes
for an extended time

Smoke rendering a little slow/glitchy
-noticed smoke from train didn't materialize until
almost overhead

RichardI
08-13-2003, 06:01 PM
Good post, Rapier03.

You're right, most non "full real" fliers don't post, because they get ripped by some of the guys here (note I said SOME).

When I started playing IL2, I flew with stalls and spins off. Until I learned the controls of the game, then I turned them on. I guess it's a matter of whether or not you think they reflect real life.

Anyway, I would think that if turning them off has no effect, Oleg will want to know that. For the reasons you already stated. Believe me, there are a LOT of people who fly this game with stalls and spins off. If turning them off has no effect, a big market will be gone.

Rich /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

<Center>http://www.ghosts.com/images/postimages/THUNDERBOLT.jpg <Center>I've got 140 109's cornered over Berlin!

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 01:42 AM
Okay...further testing has given me some more insights and motivation to keep on testing the 1.1b patch before reverting to the original FB. And perhaps, I may have been a little hasty with that prediction, but nonetheless...

As stated in my original post, I found that the handling of some of the aircraft without full realism settings was as if they had full realism enabled. Namely I noted this with the Bf-109E-4/B and B-239. Most notable were stalling and very unstable handling with exaggerated maneuvering. Of course this should not be evident with Stalls, Blackouts, etc. disabled.



After testing a little more and reading some more posts I geared up and tested some more. One post in ORR mentioned that the I-153 handled poorly after the patch. So I took it for a spin and was very pleased with its performance. I couldn't get it to stall or shutter in "easy" mode. I then tested the LaGG-3 and found similar results. It handled alot different from the FB retail version (more realistic?) but again, I couldn't get it to stall out. It was a dreamy flight.

This led me to believe that the setting and reseting of the difficulty settings had something to do with the problems I had originally. So I reflew the Bf-109E-4/B and B-239.



Results???

The same. Both stall and fall out of the sky with exaggerated maneuvers. Even though they shouldn't with Stalls and spins and the like disabled.

Conclusion???

I WILL continue to test at this time. Even though I am experiencing problems with the Bf-109 and Buffalo, I just loved flying the LaGG-3 and I-153 (zero problems). I feel obligated to put every aircraft through thorough tests to try and replicate the problems (hopefully not and it's just the Bf-109 and B-239).



***NOTE: As a side, if you are hearing this Mr. Maddox, please don't let the negative and absolute nut-case posts that I've seen on this board sway you from hosting this open forum for the IL-2 series. I am a fellow aviation fan and computer programmer/junkie and I have never experienced the like as I have with IL-2. The game is without equal in its class and unbelievably inexpensive given its sophistication. If that wasn't enough you have made available upgrades periodically that enhance the game and even add functionality - and for free! You've won over a lifelong customer in me with a superior product, stunning follow-up support, and other perks like this forum. Bravo!

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 01:52 AM
This is a very intersting observation, and please do continue further testing.

I dont think the switches themself have no function anymore, but I suppose for every airplane there have to be different versions of the flight modeling for varrying realism settings.

It is entirely possiple that perhabs a few aircraft accidently got the same version of their flight model marked for both realistic and "easy" flight

Please do try, if you can, if the planes you find to handle reasonable handle more agressivly if you enable stalls and spins.

I would guess that perhabs you'll find a few planes that simple have no difference in behaviour with stalls or without them. That would be a very usefull bug report.

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 01:58 AM
Salute Rapier,

Though I'm nothing special I always fly with the flight difficulty settings on - hence I would never have spotted this issue.
What you have noted sounds like a bug and hence would be worth reporting to the Dev team via the method described in the patch readme.

Cheers

Athos

"When first under fire and you're wishful to duck, don't look nor take heed at the man that is struck, be thankful you're living, and trust to your luck, and face to your front like a soldier"
ex. Rudyard Kipling

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 03:12 AM
Well, I fly with the settings on low some times just so I can drive through stuff ,tanks, barns, other planes etc lol. I have noticed that when doing hard turns and trying to stall, it will eventually just stop flying and just sort of fall. Not like a stall in FR settings but it will lose lift. I have even had it belly flop straight down and just sit there. They do strange things with stalls and spins off. I will check and see if the planes are still stalling as in full real. And dont worry what the self proclaimed online aces say. Its a game! You bought it to enjoy for yourself. The same as I did and everyone else here did. So do just that. Enjoy it. And may you get many many hours of pleasure from it and always walk away from the virtual cockpit with a smile on your face. Keep posting positive feedback and it will be appreciated by the ones it really matters to.

...and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward,
for there you have been and there you long to return.
~leonardo de vinci

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 11:31 AM
Hi Nowi,

Great post. I mainly run a Stall and Spin free server although I have tried almost full real settings when I have a lot of time to fly around blindly. I too noticed one or two planes belly flopping to the ground after behind chased hard. I didn't give it much attention at the time but your post has opened my eyes a little. Your post makes good reading and I will be glad to see how your testing turns out.

I flew the original IL2 game ver 1.2 a couple of days ago and some planes on there had the same characteristics, so whether its a more accurate FM or a bug we'll just have to wait and see.

I do recall the LA5 being able to maintain alt in a stall whilst doing a very aggresive nose up close to the ground which I would have attributed to the Stall & Spin setting being off.

Thanks again for your efforts on testing.

BBloke