PDA

View Full Version : Any experienced C programers wanna be flightsim heros?



BaldieJr
02-03-2004, 02:44 PM
This project is beyond my expertise, so I'll pass it along. Maybe someone else will find it interesting enough to develope.

Since Matrox released thier perhelia, they've gotten a lot of 'surround gaming' support, including FB. The only problem is the card can't make good framerates.

Soooo. Maybe somone would want to grab those other two renders, push them to clients over a network, and use good cards to display the "rest" of the screen.

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
______ _____
(, / ) /) /) , (, /
/---( _ // _(/ _ / __ ,""""]
+----/ ____)(_(_(/_(_(__(__(/____/__/ (__--------,' /---+
| / ( / ,' NR / |
|(_/ ..-""``"'-._ (_/ __,' 42 _/ |
+-.-"" "-..,____________/7,.--"" __]-----+

</pre>

BaldieJr
02-03-2004, 02:44 PM
This project is beyond my expertise, so I'll pass it along. Maybe someone else will find it interesting enough to develope.

Since Matrox released thier perhelia, they've gotten a lot of 'surround gaming' support, including FB. The only problem is the card can't make good framerates.

Soooo. Maybe somone would want to grab those other two renders, push them to clients over a network, and use good cards to display the "rest" of the screen.

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
______ _____
(, / ) /) /) , (, /
/---( _ // _(/ _ / __ ,""""]
+----/ ____)(_(_(/_(_(__(__(/____/__/ (__--------,' /---+
| / ( / ,' NR / |
|(_/ ..-""``"'-._ (_/ __,' 42 _/ |
+-.-"" "-..,____________/7,.--"" __]-----+

</pre>

crazyivan1970
02-03-2004, 03:29 PM
Sorry Baldie, if i have to do this besides work too, i`ll just hang myself http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/ivan-reaper.gif

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

cuski
02-03-2004, 03:30 PM
LOL! May I join the club, Ivan? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

crazyivan1970
02-03-2004, 03:34 PM
SURE mate, come on in, grab a beer http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/ivan-reaper.gif

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

jeroen-79
02-03-2004, 04:42 PM
You could take a PC (1), install FB's graphics engine, maps, models, textures and tell it what direction it is to draw relative to straight forward.

Then the PC (2) running FB sends data about the map that is loaded, position, speed, direction, type, loadout and status of all objects in the current game with which PC (1) draws a new picture.

Basically a stripped down MP client that only draws pictures, no flightmodeling etc.

Trouble is, if you will need access to FB's sourcecode.
You may need to make FB send out data about the game but maybe you could do it by intercepting MP data as sent by the current FB.
You also need to have the code for FB's graphics engine if you want the extra views to look like the main view.

So who could post the sourcecode?

BaldieJr
02-03-2004, 05:45 PM
No need for sources. 3 renders are already available. You just need to grab the two others and send them on thier way.

I've actually been rethinking this. Maybe it can be done in hardware.

I don't have a matrox card, but I can do this:
(Note: LOW RESOLUTION!! This could be much better looking)
http://www.fighterjerks.com/widescreen/il2fb%202004-02-03%2019-24-27-69.jpg

http://www.fighterjerks.com/widescreen/il2fb%202004-02-03%2019-24-21-16.jpg

Now who in his right mind wouldn't want 3 monitors?

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
______ _____
(, / ) /) /) , (, /
/---( _ // _(/ _ / __ ,""""]
+----/ ____)(_(_(/_(_(__(__(/____/__/ (__--------,' /---+
| / ( / ,' NR / |
|(_/ ..-""``"'-._ (_/ __,' 42 _/ |
+-.-"" "-..,____________/7,.--"" __]-----+

</pre>

blabla0001
02-03-2004, 05:58 PM
I rather have this http://www.elumens.com/products/images/VisionStation-splash.jpg on my Radeon 9800 Pro 256MB then 3 monitors and a Matrox.

BaldieJr
02-03-2004, 06:01 PM
Read the thread. I'm not talking about using a matrox. I'm talking about using 3 [insert your Holy Video Card Here]'s and 3 [insert your Vastly Superior Viewing System here]'s to do what the Matrox can do, only far better.

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
______ _____
(, / ) /) /) , (, /
/---( _ // _(/ _ / __ ,""""]
+----/ ____)(_(_(/_(_(__(__(/____/__/ (__--------,' /---+
| / ( / ,' NR / |
|(_/ ..-""``"'-._ (_/ __,' 42 _/ |
+-.-"" "-..,____________/7,.--"" __]-----+

</pre>

blabla0001
02-03-2004, 06:03 PM
Ok, let me refraise that then.

I rather have this http://www.elumens.com/products/images/VisionStation-splash.jpg then 3 monitors.

How's that?

jenikovtaw
02-03-2004, 06:14 PM
unnecessary frills.

I have a question. Within TCPIP protocol, can you reach speeds enough to be sending data in and out between 2 pcs? Or will it be done using USB?

How would you share graphics load between cards? Isn't that quite complex?

jeroen-79
02-04-2004, 08:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BaldieJr:
No need for sources. 3 renders are already available. You just need to grab the two others and send them on thier way.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Woth "source" I mean the sourcecode to the game, which you'll need to make any changes to it.

What do you mean by "renders", "grabbing them" and "sending them on their way"?
Is FB secretly drawing extra screens without displaying them?
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I've actually been rethinking this. Maybe it can be done in hardware.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ultimately everything is done in hardware. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I don't have a matrox card, but I can do this:<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>So how did you do that?
Did you put extra videocards in your PC?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jenikovtaw:
I have a question. Within TCPIP protocol, can you reach speeds enough to be sending data in and out between 2 pcs? Or will it be done using USB?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You mean speeds high enough for this application?
Why not?
All you need to transfer is data about things that change, things like position of planes, direction the player is looking at.
Static data like shapes and textures can be installed on each client.
Nothing different from a multiplayer session.
Having seperate lines for your multiplayer and secondary screens would be good though.

BaldieJr
02-04-2004, 11:22 AM
Are my screenshots impossible to understand?

There are 3 renders available in FB. Oleg put them there so Matrox owners could run 'surround gaming' mode.

Instead of having a single monitor, you get 3, and as you can see from the pic, you can see from 6 to 12 o'clock easily. With TiR, its a freaking head-trip!

All you have to is enable it, set your resolution to 1024x200, and window the application in order to get all three renders. Of course, this is LOW resolution, but it gives you a wingtip-to-wingtip view.

I've looked high and low for a hardware multiplexer that can take a 3072x768 signal and split it between 3 1024x768 monitors, but have had no luck. Maybe I'll dust off my electonics books and tinker with it in the future.

I found that the nvidia FX5200 available in PCI varieties, and I'll be grabbing one as soon as possible. The FX5700U (which I already have) has two outputs for monitors, so the 5200 only has to render one view while the 5700 takes care of the rest.

3 monitors at "Excellent" settings is going to rock.

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
______ _____
(, / ) /) /) , (, /
/---( _ // _(/ _ / __ ,""""]
+----/ ____)(_(_(/_(_(__(__(/____/__/ (__--------,' /---+
| / ( / ,' NR / |
|(_/ ..-""``"'-._ (_/ __,' 42 _/ |
+-.-"" "-..,____________/7,.--"" __]-----+

</pre>

jeroen-79
02-04-2004, 03:13 PM
Your pictures make perfect sense. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
I just didn't know FB supported such exotic resolutions on regular cards, I don't see it listed with my Ti-4600.

How does it perform at higher "3x1" resolutions?

Maybe you could let one card run in "3x1" resolution and let software take screenshots, cut them in three and send the pieces to other videocards.
Seems technically possible but it would be demanding for the CPU, the slave cards wouldn't need much power though.

I am interested in the results of a dual card setup.

WWMaxGunz
02-04-2004, 04:00 PM
Where/how do you enable this?

Can the NView application on NVidia cards handle what you want?

I remember reading back around 1997 that people were using lans with 3 pcs/3 monitors to play quake with 3 views. The game let 3 or more machines run all slaved to one so that they all showed whatever view the player desired. Each machine ran a copy of the game, it wasn't all on or from one so there was no extra framerate load beyond communications between the units. Or at least that's what I think I can remember of what I had read. ID did some very good, groundbreaking and innovative work.


Neal

BaldieJr
02-04-2004, 04:31 PM
I'm surprised Dex hasn't shown up, proclaiming the genius of Oleg an Matrox (1.22 patch seems to have fixed his biggest complaint... I wonder what kind of FPS he gets now.)

Anyways, to try this, open up the conf file and change these:

[window]
width=1024 &lt;--- See note below
height=256 &lt;--- See note below
ColourBits=32
DepthBits=24
StencilBits=8
ChangeScreenRes=0 &lt;----
FullScreen=1
DrawIfNotFocused=0
EnableResize=0
EnableClose=1
SaveAspect=1 &lt;---- [edited again! Must be 1]
Use3Renders=1 &lt;---- [edited cause i pasted the wrong conf file earlier]

Since we are doing 3 renders, the first should be the width. I stuck with 1024, but if you card/monitor can do higher, feel free. The second is hieght, and it must be 1/3 your resolution. Since normal res is 1024x768, you devide 768 by 3 to get the value.

On my 5700U, FPS are smooth, but I haven't measured them. I'll post again latter with numbers.

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
______ _____
(, / ) /) /) , (, /
/---( _ // _(/ _ / __ ,""""]
+----/ ____)(_(_(/_(_(__(__(/____/__/ (__--------,' /---+
| / ( / ,' NR / |
|(_/ ..-""``"'-._ (_/ __,' 42 _/ |
+-.-"" "-..,____________/7,.--"" __]-----+

</pre>

[This message was edited by BaldieJr on Wed February 04 2004 at 04:20 PM.]

[This message was edited by BaldieJr on Wed February 04 2004 at 04:28 PM.]

BaldieJr
02-04-2004, 05:29 PM
On the ground: 30 fps (excellent settings)
In the air: 43 fps

Now, the big question is if nview can route the renders to two different cards.

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
______ _____
(, / ) /) /) , (, /
/---( _ // _(/ _ / __ ,""""]
+----/ ____)(_(_(/_(_(__(__(/____/__/ (__--------,' /---+
| / ( / ,' NR / |
|(_/ ..-""``"'-._ (_/ __,' 42 _/ |
+-.-"" "-..,____________/7,.--"" __]-----+

</pre>

CARBONFREEZE
02-04-2004, 07:14 PM
Anything is possible.. In linux =)

Russian aircraft require skill to fly.
German aircraft require ten times that skill, and one hundred times the patience!

WUAF_CO_CRBNFRZ on HyperLobby

BlitzPig__Sal
02-04-2004, 10:35 PM
The obvious solution to me would be to use 3 video cards in one PC instead of 3 PCs. One AGP and 2 PCI video cards. Somehow I doubt that FB can split that widescreen render between the three cards, but I bet there are 3rd party apps that can.

You may be thinking that the PCI cards will be slower. They would be slower than the AGP card, but still many times faster than trying to pipe the data to another PC.

Indianer.
02-05-2004, 01:18 AM
why dont u just save ur time and money and buy a real plane http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

"Wer auf die preussische Fahne schwort, hat nichts mehr, was ihm selber gehort"

BaldieJr
02-05-2004, 07:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlitzPig__Sal:
The obvious solution to me would be to use 3 video cards in one PC instead of 3 PCs. One AGP and 2 PCI video cards. Somehow I doubt that FB can split that widescreen render between the three cards, but I bet there are 3rd party apps that can.

You may be thinking that the PCI cards will be slower. They would be slower than the AGP card, but still many times faster than trying to pipe the data to another PC.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That application for FS corrupted my head. Since they just pipe view-data from one running copy of FS to another, they have very little data to push over the network. Honestly, I _just_wasnt_thinking_ when I started this thread http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I'm going to pick up a PCI card saturday and see how it works out.

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
______ _____
(, / ) /) /) , (, /
/---( _ // _(/ _ / __ ,""""]
+----/ ____)(_(_(/_(_(__(__(/____/__/ (__--------,' /---+
| / ( / ,' NR / |
|(_/ ..-""``"'-._ (_/ __,' 42 _/ |
+-.-"" "-..,____________/7,.--"" __]-----+

</pre>

BaldieJr
02-05-2004, 04:52 PM
Since 551 people have viewed this thread, I'll shoot a little update.

You can indeed do 3 monitors with 2 (or 3, if you like) video cards. It seems nVidia's nView will allow hardware accel accross multiple cards.

Also, people have been able to use multiple ATI cards.

So, if you want to do surround gaming ( http://www.matrox.com/mga/3d_gaming/enhanced_games/forgotten_battles.cfm ) without loosing performance, you can.

I'm adding 3 LCD's to my wishlist http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
______ _____
(, / ) /) /) , (, /
/---( _ // _(/ _ / __ ,""""]
+----/ ____)(_(_(/_(_(__(__(/____/__/ (__--------,' /---+
| / ( / ,' NR / |
|(_/ ..-""``"'-._ (_/ __,' 42 _/ |
+-.-"" "-..,____________/7,.--"" __]-----+

</pre>

LimaZulu
02-05-2004, 07:51 PM
Hey Baldie,

Don't want to hijack your thread but since you've been playing with screen rez, you might be able to help me.

I got a new notebook that has a 1440X900 screen. It seems to be quite happy to run FB even in perfect mode at 1024X768 in either full screen (fuzzy) or windowed. I haven't able to get it to take any screen resolutions that are not in the standard 3X4 ratio. If I change width/height in the ini to 1440X900 it just freezes on application startup.

Any advice?

LZ

BaldieJr
02-05-2004, 08:45 PM
Try this...

width=1440
height=900
ColourBits=32
DepthBits=24
StencilBits=8
ChangeScreenRes=0 &lt;----
FullScreen=1
DrawIfNotFocused=0
EnableResize=0
EnableClose=1
SaveAspect=1
Use3Renders=0

Possibly, you may want to set SaveAspect to 0.

With oddbal resolutions, it seems to crap out when ChangeScreenRes is set to 1.

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
______ _____
(, / ) /) /) , (, /
/---( _ // _(/ _ / __ ,""""]
+----/ ____)(_(_(/_(_(__(__(/____/__/ (__--------,' /---+
| / ( / ,' NR / |
|(_/ ..-""``"'-._ (_/ __,' 42 _/ |
+-.-"" "-..,____________/7,.--"" __]-----+

</pre>

LimaZulu
02-05-2004, 10:14 PM
Wow, cool. It works!

Thanks Baldie! You have no idea how cool it is to have this work. The 17" 1440x900 screen looks fantastic and the GForceGo5600 runs it all smoothly on perfect mode.

FB is ready for the road!