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Owlsphone
07-09-2004, 08:21 AM
Hey everyone it is a great day! Today I am starting my training for my pilot's license. I'm trying to be calm and I'm trying to be laid back about it but I'm so darn excited. I want to know if anyone who has gone through the training has any advice or tips they can give me. Thanks guys.

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Owlsphone
07-09-2004, 08:21 AM
Hey everyone it is a great day! Today I am starting my training for my pilot's license. I'm trying to be calm and I'm trying to be laid back about it but I'm so darn excited. I want to know if anyone who has gone through the training has any advice or tips they can give me. Thanks guys.

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Vertically challenged since 1984.

RCAF_Hawk2
07-09-2004, 08:35 AM
Tip 1 :dont be nervous its a cake walk
Tip 2 :dont crash , CFI's frown on students dinging up there bird.
Tip 3:Have fun , thats whatcha doing it for right?
And the last tip: If your in pattern ahead of me, gracfully move out of place so I can have your spot if you know whats go for ya lol.
seriously good luck and good flying.
BTW my CFI was a WW2 p51 pilot one cocky old bastard but he earned it lol

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Your not getting my Buffalo wings

AWL_Spinner
07-09-2004, 08:36 AM
Just don't try to split-S your Cessna, and you'll do just fine!

PPL since 1998, some of my best holidays have been flying cross countries. Wonderful hobby, great community.

Good luck!

Cheers, Spinner

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PBNA-Boosher
07-09-2004, 08:49 AM
Awesome! I have 22 hours of flying experience and I just soloed 3 weeks ago! I don't even have a driver's license yet! I love it, and I'm sure you will too! What aircraft are you flying? I fly Piper Cherokee 140's and while I'm at camp, I fly Piper Warrior's when I can get out for a lesson. I trust them a lot more than Cessnas, as Pipers are a lot sturdier, but Cessna makes fine planes too. They perform really well. If you live in the US, 4500 or so dollars later, you're going to be one very happy private pilot!

I'm halfway there to getting my license now!

10 Good Tips:------

1: Always trust your instruments, but make sure you correct what needs to be corrected on the ground.

2: Make small corrections, nothing too big, or you'll over-correct and need to make another correction.

3: When landing, the pattern around the airfield should be rectangular, not like an oval.

4: Give yourself plenty of room to land. You want a good hold on altitude.

5: Remember, you're not dogfighting, and these planes are carborated, not fuel injected. NO HARD NEGATIVE G MANEUVERING! (But that doesn't mean you can't have fun.)

6: Remember landmarks, they'll help you find your airfield again.

7: DON'T GO INTO CLASS B AIRSPACE UNLESS YOU HAVE TO! IT'S VERY STRICT AND NOT THE TYPE OF SITUATION YOU WANT TO HANDLE AT THIS POINT IN TIME.

8: Learn the radio commands early on and use them. If you're training at an uncontrolled airport, like I am, USE THE RADIO. If there's another plane in the pattern while you're landing, it could very well save your life.

9: TRIM IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.

10: KNOW YOUR PLANE's characteristics. Get the manual for the plane and study it's Vspeeds. Also, know the emergency frequencies. Always be on the lookout for a field to land in if an emergency situation requires you to land the plane.

Boosher
_____________________________
"So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you..."
-Gandalf

[This message was edited by PBNA-Boosher on Fri July 09 2004 at 08:02 AM.]

[This message was edited by PBNA-Boosher on Fri July 09 2004 at 08:11 AM.]

PBNA-Boosher
07-09-2004, 08:52 AM
If you're ever in the mood, come to KSMQ, Somerset Airport. We've got two old AT-6's there as well as a few old L-5's. The AT-6's aren't out often, but they do go to airshows! If you were at WWII weekend this year, and saw the AT-6 formation flight on Sunday, June 8th, the plane from KSMQ was leading the formation.

We also have some very old original birds. Some really nice polished metal stuff from the 1930's. We also have a nice Pilatus and a few Mooneys. There's a nice glider field there too for those who want to be glider pilots!

Boosher
_____________________________
"So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you..."
-Gandalf

Nug01
07-09-2004, 08:59 AM
Good luck and have fun. I remember what you are going thru, even if it was over 11,000 hours ago.

blairgowrie
07-09-2004, 09:01 AM
Great decision to get your licence. Most fun I ever had.

Although you are going to be in the hands of an instructor for the next 15 hours or so until you solo my only advice to you is this. Always be aware of weather conditions and not take chances with it. It can change so quickly and it's a very lonely feeling when you can't see or get caught in high winds. Happened to me a couple of times and it can get scary.

On the plus side you will love the thrill of your first solo and the great feeling you get when you take your friends for a quick flight and watch them turn green when you do a stall!

Good luck.

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Salfordian
07-09-2004, 09:03 AM
Good luck and enjoy, it is definitely one of the best things I have ever done, flying solo is awesome. One piece of advice, don't take to long doing it, I did because I could only fly on the odd weekend in my uni summer holidays, due to money problems and working, so the cost will add up, but I did get more than the usual soloing in, however, 5 years later when I came to renew my medical when I was around 45 hours and about 2 or 3 hrs off my test, I failed it on my eyesight, gutted big time. Moral of the story I guess is fly as much as you can, while you can. At least I can always say I went solo in a plane before I could drive a car. All the best, and have fun.

mortoma
07-09-2004, 09:05 AM
I went through the training in the summer of 2000 and would advise spending more time studying for the written exam than playing FB http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif Seriously, if you keep up on the book part you'll be more confident when you get near the end of your training. I used the Gleim's study material on CD-ROM and got a 97% on my written test. There are much fancier and more expensive DVD and VHS materials out there but Gleim's is all you need to do really well. Get good at using your flight computer and it's far better to use the old fashioned slide rule type than the electronic "calculator" style. The electronic one does not engage your mind as much and you'll understand what's going on better with the old slide rule. Newer technology is not always better. As far as the actual hand's on flying part, not much to add there except to let your instructor be the one to have more say as to when you're ready to solo than your own gut instinct. I pushed my instructor into letting me solo earlier than I should have and was not ready psyhcologically. Although it turned out OK in the end. I also recommend trying to find gusty/windy days to practice challenging cross wind landings and takeoffs. I happened to go on a day when the wind was gusting up to 17 knots and dying down to almost nothing. That really made me a good crosswind pilot. The stall/slow flight part of the training was not that big of a deal. Flying patterns around a fixed point on the ground in windy conditions was hard but fun. I also missed out on very much training in heavy traffic air space areas and using the radio in those conditions and that hurt me. My instructor was aware of that fact and regretted it. See if you can get some training in at least class C air space, if not class B!!! That type of flying makes you busy in the cockpit and is good experience.

BinaryFalcon
07-09-2004, 09:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I want to know if anyone who has gone through the training has any advice or tips they can give me. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

First one that comes to mind:

If you get a grumpy old 17,000+ hr. instructor who doesn't really want to be there, and he makes you nervous all the time by barking orders and giving you flak when you're a little slow, by all means, don't worry about it, and think about what you do before you do it anyway.

Further, if he barks at you to reduce the throttle to idle, for the love of Pete, DO NOT PULL ON THE RED KNOB. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

To be fair, I only had about 3 hours of experience at that point, as I soon as I got it halfway out I knew I had the wrong one and was already pushing it back in again, but the look on his face (and I suspect mine) was almost worth it. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

Not that it would have been particularly serious at that point, but it's best not to make your CFI nervous. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Seriously though, just go up and enjoy it. Your CFI won't let you get into any significant trouble, and you'll learn quicker and do better if you just approach it from a "I'll fly the plane as best I can, and the rest will sort itself out in time" standpoint. Relax and have fun, you'll get the best results that way.

mortoma
07-09-2004, 09:23 AM
Another thing is to try and get your instuctor to teach you good leaning technique at higher altitudes. Typically, almost all instructors in the U.S will avoid this if they can. They are leery about letting people pull out on that RED KNOB!! So if your instructor has his way, he'd spend most of your training at lower altitudes with the mixture all the way in, and simply not let you touch it except to kill the engine at the end of the day. If you are going to be training out west, he won't be able to avoid it in most areas out there. At airports around places Denver or Salt Lake, you'd actaully have to take off from the ground already leaned out some, since they are so high to begin with. Where are you going to take your lessons at??

LStarosta
07-09-2004, 09:23 AM
I wouldn't always trust my instruments... Especially since this is private pilot training, not IFR. Get to know your instruments and check em on the ground as he said, but when you've got a gut feeling that something is going on despite the readings on your instrument panel, go with your gut instinct.

And don't go formation flying, doing low flyby's and hammerheads in a Cessna 172. My friend got in trouble for that. RIP...

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tsisqua
07-09-2004, 09:34 AM
Very good decision http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Here is my last trainer, A Cherokee 140 (PA28). You are in for some of the best times of your life.

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/tsisqua-PA28Panel.JPG

Advice:

Once you do the walkaround with the CFI, you will be doing that yourself eventually. Don't skimp. Make sure that you look at ALL the control surfaces; check out the "pins" that they pivot on. Make sure that the pitot is dust, dirt, and bug-fee. No AS indicator SUCKS. Look at the tires on the gear . . . the brakes . . . don't miss anything, and don't be afraid to tell the CFI if you find something amiss. Make sure that the last mech that was working on the plane didn't leave any tools under the cowling . . . you can do that while you are checking the oil. I found alot of things during my walkarounds that needed to be attended to that my CFI didn't know about.

Lastly, and this is from experience . . . If your CFI spins and dive bombs a plane that is not rated for aerobatics . . . run like hell to the next CFI. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Tsisqua

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lindyman
07-09-2004, 09:35 AM
Very good decision, you will not regret it.

Advice; be laid back, but serious. Learn your lessons well. Learn your plane, learn the air law, learn the meteorology, learn about the human mind and body, and remember... it's not air-war so keep a sound distance to obstacles and other planes.

Above all, learn your emergency procedures well, and practice them often. Most probably you'll never need it, but *IF* you do, it's the wrong time to start trying to remember what to do. Look for hints of wind direction (smoke, waves on lakes, etc,) and keep lookout for possible emergency landing sites.

You'll be very busy in the beginning, with all the things to keep in mind, but with time more and more of it becomes automatic so your stress levels go down.

You won't regret your decision (your bank account might, however.)
_
/Bjorn.

PBNA-Boosher
07-09-2004, 09:37 AM
You'd be surprised. Sometimes over open water it can be easy to become disoriented. Trust those instruments. They will tell you the truth.

Boosher
_____________________________
"So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you..."
-Gandalf

Nug01
07-09-2004, 09:41 AM
Always trust your instruments-always.

BinaryFalcon
07-09-2004, 09:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
I wouldn't always trust my instruments... Especially since this is private pilot training, not IFR. Get to know your instruments and check em on the ground as he said, but when you've got a gut feeling that something is going on despite the readings on your instrument panel, go with your gut instinct.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry, but I can't let this go.

That is terrible, terrible advice. It's irresponsible to say, and is exactly the kind of thing that has gotten quite a few pilots killed in the past (JFK Jr, for example) and unfortunately is likely to do so again in the future. Anyone who truly believes that has no business being anywhere near an aircraft.

Always trust your instruments, but do verify them. Obviously if your DG only indicates a 35 degree turn after you've turned 90, and it then lazily wanders back about 5 degrees before suddenly kicking over wildly and begins spinning in the opposite direction too quickly to read, something is wrong (this happened to me on my first night flight). However, barring that, the instruments are pretty much always right, and can be cross checked against each other even if you have a silent failure.

That said, for VFR flight, look out the window. The instruments should only be something you glance down at to verify what you should already know because you're looking outside. Much like glancing into your mirrors occasionally while you drive. You don't ignore them fully, but at the same time, you don't focus on them excessively either.

In any case, these are all things that will (or should) be covered by your instructor. Beyond that, read and study as much as you can about aerodynamics, systems and general aeronautical knowledge outside of "class". It'll ultimately make things easier, and you'll have a better understanding of what to do in those unexpected situations. Never stop learning for as long as you fly.

Learning to fly is the easy part. Becoming an aviator is what takes work.

Huxley_S
07-09-2004, 10:00 AM
Wow! How does one go about getting a private pilots license. How much does it cost these days and how long does it take? Always been an ambition of mine since I was in the corps (women's auxiliary balloon corps).

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tsisqua
07-09-2004, 10:11 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Huxley_S:
Wow! How does one go about getting a private pilots license. How much does it cost these days and how long does it take? Always been an ambition of mine since I was in the corps (women's auxiliary balloon corps).

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Plan on spending around $5,000.00 across a one to one and a half year period. Most local airfields have a CFI (at LEAST one) that will be there from time to time, if not always.

Like the Nike people say: "Just Do It". You won't be sorry. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Tsisqua

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LStarosta
07-09-2004, 10:11 AM
I agree with you, Boosher, trust them? Yes. 100%? Never. If you feel your engine is not operating in acceptable parameters even though your instruments say otherwise, I would definately land as soon as possible and get it checked out. You shouldn't be attempting to navigate over large amounts of open water where you can't see both coasts at the same time anyway, if you've just started to fly.

Another thing, get a good Certified Flight Instructor (CFI). Find one that you're compatible with. You're going to spend around $5000 on this training, make sure your CFI is someone you are comfortable with and compatible with.

One good rule of thumb: When in doubt, chicken out.

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TD_Klondike
07-09-2004, 10:14 AM
If you devote a lot of time to it, and plan on flying 2-4 times a week, you should be able to finish a private license in about 4 months. It will probably cost in the neighborhood of $4,000, give or take a few hundred depending on local rates.

The more often you fly, the more proficient you are, and the fewer hours you will have when you take your test. For example, if you fly twice a week you may get your certificate at 50 hours, but if you fly once every other week, it may take more like 70 hours. More time away from flying ultimately means more money.

I'm in the process of finishing my flight instructor certification right now, and I'm pretty excited about finding a job somewhere soon. Because of this, I also feel compelled to comment about referencing your instruments. For the maneuvers that you're going to be learning, you don't need them. Check your heading and altimeter periodically to make sure you're on track, but most of this stuff is done by looking outside. However, you may encounter scenarios where the horizon line is misleading, or not visible, and then trusting your instruments becomes critical. DO trust your instruments, unless you diagnose one as being inoperative.

lindyman
07-09-2004, 10:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tsisqua:
Plan on spending around $5,000.00 across a one to one and a half year period. Most local airfields have a CFI (at LEAST one) that will be there from time to time, if not always.

Like the Nike people say: "Just Do It". You won't be sorry. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Tsisqua
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

While this is a good norm, it's definitely possible to do it quicker, or slower, depending on your luck with weather, your skill, your willingness to study, and your instructor.

I also thought it was good to have a few instructors. I had one that I had almost all my class with, but there were a few with 2 others. While it can be disturbing, it is also good to see that different instructors not only work in different ways, but also have different opinions about what is right and wrong in some situations. That last thing is something to keep in mind for the final check ride. If uncertain, ask the guy you do the check-ride with. Most of them prefer an honest question in an uncertain situation over doing something that might not be right.
_
/Bjorn.

El Turo
07-09-2004, 10:32 AM
Absolutely the most fun, most rewarding and incredibly fantastic thing I've ever done in my life was to get my ticket. I'd strongly recommend learning on the 172 instead of the 152 if you can manage the small extra cost because the 152 is just about useless in any kind of wind or with two full grown adults in the cabin. The 172, while not really all that utilitarian, will still be able to carry two adults and some luggage or three adults and a small bit of travelling items.. and because it is a bit heavier and powered better, will fare better in crosswinds, updrafts and turbulence than will the 152 powered kite.

Between ground school, books, equipment and instructor/rental time I'd estimate your costs to be about $5000-6000 for your private ticket.

I went three times a week and finished up in three months. A friend of mine went daily and got his ticket in just about a month. I would recommend being able to go up at least twice a week so that everything stays fresh in your mind. Taking too much time off between flights will lengthen your training not just for your raw flight time needed, but also because the lessons and instruction will not be as fresh nor stick as well.

Enjoy it!

My two biggest suggestions:

1) Always physically touch every instrument, knob and piece of the aircraft that you are addressing in your checklist. It reinforces your acknowledgement and inspection of each item and the habit of physically touching each item requires you to inspect it instead of quickly brushing past it.

2) Use that trim! Pitch, power, trim. Pitch, power, trim. Repeat it like a mantra. Properly trimming your aircraft will save you a LOT of physical strain and stress, and will make a transition from pilot to instructor (and back again) smooth on the hand off of controls. On those long distance cross country flights, you'll be much better for the wear if you've trimmed out all the back pressure. It may not feel like a lot, but after several hours of manual correction for even just a couple of pounds, you'll be a bit fatigued.

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
______________________
This place
was once
a place
of worship
I thought,
reloading my rifle.

~V.

Huxley_S
07-09-2004, 10:54 AM
Do you think that playing IL2FB every day for 6 months will in any way contribute to success in getting a pilots license?

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Huxley_S
07-09-2004, 10:57 AM
When you've got a pilots license but you don't own your own plane then what are your options?

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BinaryFalcon
07-09-2004, 11:09 AM
If you want to knock your instructor's socks off when you get to the cross country portion, know how to correctly compute Fuel on Board (FOB).

Let's assume a relatively new C172 for this with 53 gallons of useable fuel, and a fuel flow of 9.1 gph.

1. Add up the total fuel burn for the leg (this assumes the leg uses the same power setting, and therefore the same fuel flow for the entire leg), including fuel burned during climb and descent. Let's say it was 12.8 gallons.

2. Add up the total time of flight during the leg, once again including climb and descent. We'll assume 56 minutes.

3. Subtract the figure you came up with in step 1 from the total amount of fuel in your tanks. 53gal - 12.8 gal = 40.2 gal

4. Take the resulting number from step 3 and divide it by the fuel flow for the leg. So 40.2 gal / 9.1 gph = 4.41 hrs (rounded). Take note that the above number is not 4 hours and 41 minutes, it is 4 point 41 hours. To convert the .41 to minutes you must multiply by 60. So, 0.41 x 60 = 24 (rounded. When it comes to fuel estimates, I always round down. I'd rather have an extra 7 minutes of fuel in my tanks that I didn't plan for instead of coming up 2 minutes short when I thought I had it. Not that you should ever let it get that close!).

So we now have a computed time of 4 hours and 24 minutes, commonly expressed as "4+24".

Finally,
5. Take the resulting number from step 4 and then add back in the leg time you computed in step 2. In thise case, (4+24) + (0+56). This works out to 4 hours plus 80 minutes, or expressed more commonly, 4 hours plus 1 hour and 20 minutes, or 5+20.

So, fuel on board at the beginning of the leg would be 5+20, or 5 hours and 20 minutes.

Repeat the above steps for each leg as required, each time starting with your new fuel remaining total in gallons (in this case, the 40.2 gallons you computed in step 3).

Once you get some experience with a certain plane you'll be able to "sanity check" the computations quite well. I spent a lot of time in the newer 180hp C172s during my primary training, and based on my experience I discovered that it was fairly accurate to assume a fuel flow of 10gph when out training. That meant I could divide my useable fuel total by 10 and get a pretty good idea of how much time I had in my tanks. As you can see above, 53 / 10 = 5.3 hours, or 5 +18. That's extremely close to the 5+20 that I computed. It's not perfect, but it's close enough that I'd feel very good about my calculations, and it's more than accurate enough to "ballpark" it, as I always make it a point to land with no less than 60-90 minutes of fuel remaining.

Obviously don't go betting the farm and filing a flightplan on the ballpark method, it'd be reckless to do so, but for the initial stages of flight planning it's extremely useful to help you rough out your route and fuel stops, so you have a good idea of where you'll need to stop for gas right from the start.

lindyman
07-09-2004, 11:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Huxley_S:
Do you think that playing IL2FB every day for 6 months will in any way contribute to success in getting a pilots license?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It might, but it depends on you. If you have pedals and a good stick, and you're keen on learning how to do things the real way, you'll get some skills that will give you a head start.

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI>Pedal-stick coordination.
<LI>Coordinated turns.
<LI>Flying straight and level (you don't realise how many students have a hard time with this.)
<LI>Judging dead-stick landings.
<LI>Unusual position recoveries.
[/list]

However, there's so much more to flying than that, and of course, a high performance fighter is quite different from a civilian trainer.

The game will give you nothing at all on:

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI>Meteorology.
<LI>Navigation.
<LI>Performance and planning.
<LI>Air-law.
<LI>Radio phraseology.
<LI>Emergency procedures.
<LI>Preflighting the aircraft.
[/list]

The game itself will give you nothing, but these boards may, on:

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI>Physics of flight.
<LI>Aircraft construction.
[/list]
_
/Bjorn.

lindyman
07-09-2004, 11:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Huxley_S:
When you've got a pilots license but you don't own your own plane then what are your options?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't know how things are where you live, but here flying clubs are a good option. The club I'm a member in has 3 planes, and the hourly rental fees are decent and availability quite good. In the club there are also a few instructors, which is good when the time comes for a proficiency check, or you just feel uncertain about something and want to ask.

Another option is to buy a share in a plane, something I am currently thinking of doing (since none of the club planes are aerobatic, and I want to make use of my aerobatic training.)

There are also companies that commersially rent planes, but often their prices are quite high compared to flying clubs or shares, but check around.
_
/Bjorn.

El Turo
07-09-2004, 11:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Huxley_S:
When you've got a pilots license but you don't own your own plane then what are your options?

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FB Music and Campaigns @
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Playing flight simulators certainly gives you an advantage over someone that has never had any such experience, but there is no replacement for air under your butt and hands on the real thing.

As for what to do with a license and no plane.. that's why FBOs rent aircraft! Your other option is to join a club of "group" ownership where you pay a small monthly fee and then pay as you go for fuel, oil and maintenance in a reduced hourly cost (compared to renting).

If you are going to fly regularly, the club route is often the best option. If you are going to fly only a few times a year or every few months, the rental option is probably a better option.

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
______________________
This place
was once
a place
of worship
I thought,
reloading my rifle.

~V.

Owlsphone
07-09-2004, 02:43 PM
WOW nice replies guys. Thanks for the advice. I just got back from the lesson and I must say it was probably the most humbling experience in my life. All the computer flying taught me some things, but in most aspects it did jack squat. First off, my instructor is a 22 year old so he's not one of those "grumpy, I'm mad at the world" pilots. It's nice since we're so close in age that we can relate.

I am flying a Cherokee 140 out of Northeast Philadelphia Airport at Hortman Aviation. They are some really nice people there. Anyway, first thing that struck me was how much a small plane bounces around up until 3000 feet. My horizon was bouncing all over the place and the turn coordinator was going nuts no matter what I was doing with the controls. The first thing that I thought of while flying was when I fly on Hyperlobby when someone has a server with wind and youre bouncing everywhere and you can't get a clean shot off. The plane flies EXACTLY like on a windy server. WEIRD. Once we got to cruising altitude of 3000 feet it was smooth sailing.

One thing that I must point out about training is that you fly EVERY lesson which rocks. I'm hoping to get a pilot loan approved so I can finance this training (about $5000) and get all my lessons completed as soon as possible. I was told that flying between 2-3 times per week is best.

I am not sure whether this is normal or not but my instructor gave me full control almost all the time-he just supervised and told me what to do. I got to taxi, takeoff, perform some stalls, low speed flight (which was today's lesson) and I even got to touch and go land, fly around the pattern and finally land. I also had to talk to the crazy ATC lady no matter how much I resisted.

All this virtual flying I have done over the years helped with knowledge of procedure to some extent. I realized that after all these years of pressing "v" for flaps down a notch, my brain wasn't trained to pull the handbrake style lever for flaps in the 140. I guess it's going to take some getting used to to not press a button on my keyboard or joystick and actually have to reach across the cockpit instruments to flick a switch.

The feeling of really flying kicks in when you pull a 45 degree bank. Now I know that 45 degrees is nothing in this sim, but when you're up there and you look out the window and all you see is grass and trees - OH MAN. Not only that but you can actually feel the G forces in your face. You feel your cheeks sliding towards your shoulders. There is no other feeling like it.

All in all, today was absolutely incredible. I am young compared to many of you here but I felt like I waited long enough to taste real flight. I may be paying off these loans for 5 or 10 more years but it is worth it, believe me. If you think that the addiction to flight is bad through Forgotten Battles, wait until you take a test flight. I can guarantee that you will walk away changed forever and you will force yourself to commit a few months energy and some money for a lifetime of joy. Most airports that have private pilot courses offer introductory flights for 20-40 dollars. I recommend anyone with a passion for flight at least take 1 flight to see if you like it. If you don't, hey, you tried. But for 20 dollars if you discover you want to fly for the rest of your life then I think it's worth it. Alright enough with my rant. Keep the advice coming and I will keep you all updated on my progress.

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v251/Owlsphone/Sig.jpg
Vertically challenged since 1984.

El Turo
07-09-2004, 03:03 PM
Right on!

I agree.. there is just simply nothing like it.

Now that the wife is done with college and gainfully employed, it's my turn to get back to real-world flying at least a couple times a month. Love it! I'm actually thinking about finishing my bachelor's degree up at a local flight college, getting a degree in aviation meteorology while getting credit for completing my flight training.

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
______________________
This place
was once
a place
of worship
I thought,
reloading my rifle.

~V.

Scen
07-09-2004, 03:05 PM
Some good advice so far.

I highly suggest you fly often and as much as you can. The reason being that other factors like weather,scheduling and being sick can slow down your progress and it will end up costing you more.

The more often you fly the less you will have to relearn and go over things. If you can fly 2-3 times a week. The guys who fly just on weekends end up covering a lot of what was covered the week before.

Even though it's been stated before... Enjoy your self it's an amazing experience. Respect it and it will keep you safe.

Good luck.

Scendore

Nug01
07-09-2004, 03:14 PM
Ahh PNE, spent some time there when I was a cfi at Pottstown muni and Perkiomen Valley.

El Turo
07-09-2004, 04:04 PM
High Flight, with FAA Supplement

Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth(1),
And danced(2) the skies on laughter silvered wings;
Sunward I've climbed(3) and joined the tumbling mirth(4)
Of sun-split clouds(5) and done a hundred things(6)
You have not dreamed of - Wheeled and soared and swung(7)
High in the sunlit silence(8). Hov'ring there(9)
I've chased the shouting wind(10) along and flung(11)
My eager craft through footless halls of air.
Up, up the long delirious(12), burning blue
I've topped the wind-swept heights(13) with easy grace,
Where never lark, or even eagle(14) flew;
And, while with silent, lifting mind I've trod
The high untrespassed sanctity of space(15),
Put out my hand(16), and touched the face of God.

NOTE:

1. Pilots must insure that all surly bonds have been slipped entirely before aircraft taxi or flight is attempted.
2. During periods of severe sky dancing, crew and passengers must keep seatbelts fastened. Crew should wear shoulderbelts as provided.
3. Sunward climbs must not exceed the maximum permitted aircraft ceiling.
4. Passenger aircraft are prohibited from joining the tumbling mirth.
5. Pilots flying through sun-split clouds under VFR conditions must comply with all applicable minimum clearances.
6. Do not perform these hundred things in front of Federal Aviation Administration inspectors.
7. Wheeling, soaring, and swinging will not be attempted except in aircraft rated for such activities and within utility class weight limits.
8. Be advised that sunlit silence will occur only when a major engine malfunction has occurred.
9. "Hov'ring there" will constitute a highly reliable signal that a flight emergency is imminent.
10. Forecasts of shouting winds are available from the local FSS. Encounters with unexpected shouting winds should be reported by pilots.
11. Pilots flinging eager craft through footless halls of air are reminded that they alone are responsible for maintaining separation from other eager craft.
12. Should any crewmember or passenger experience delirium while in the burning blue, submit an irregularity report upon flight termination.
13. Windswept heights will be topped by a minimum of 1,000 feet to maintain VFR minimum separations.
14. Aircraft engine ingestion of, or impact with, larks or eagles should be reported to the FAA and the appropriate aircraft maintenance facility.
15. Aircraft operating in the high untresspassed sanctity of space must remain in IFR flight regardless of meteorological conditions and visibility.
16. Pilots and passengers are reminded that opening doors or windows in order to touch the face of God may result in loss of cabin pressure.


http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
______________________
This place
was once
a place
of worship
I thought,
reloading my rifle.

~V.

JK-1
07-09-2004, 05:16 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif During your Preinspection , Double Check Everything , Most of all, Don't Hurry through testing for water in the Fuel Tanks and Check the Fuel cap too and make sure it's tight and depending on the Plane ,Watch out for Carp Ice ( Don't forget Carp Heat) Then relax and have fun , I always feel very Blessed being able to say that I am a pilot, It's a Great Experience. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Gibbage1
07-09-2004, 05:27 PM
I got digital cable and there is this TV program called "Birth of an airplane" on the Wings channel. Great program about someone making his own aircraft from a kit and learning how to fly!! I was thinking of getting up and learning a little flying myself. If I ever do learn to fly, I will be sure to get myself qualified in a float http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Gib

El Turo
07-09-2004, 05:38 PM
Gib, I'm right with ya.. only that it is REDICULOUSLY expensive to fly the float planes due to insurance being rediculous, which is a serious bummer because I've always wanted to get rated for seaplanes. They had one at my FBO but it was like $400 an hour. Yikes.

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
______________________
This place
was once
a place
of worship
I thought,
reloading my rifle.

~V.

JG7_Rall
07-09-2004, 05:42 PM
Advice? Get another job http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Its addictive-you'll need the extra income. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

As far as REAL advice goes-just be confident and keep your cool. It's not that hard, but at times, some things can be overwhelming. Don't be afraid to talk on the radio as well-some guys are rather indimidating, at least where I fly. Good luck bud, you'll love it!

S!

"Son, never ask a man if he is a fighter pilot. If he is, he'll let you know. If he isn't, don't embarrass him."
Badges!? We don't needs no stinkin' badges!

Owlsphone
07-09-2004, 05:55 PM
LMAO at Turo! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

JK-1: How fast is too fast in testing? I stick the fuel shotglass thing under the wing and the fuel pours into it. I check for debris and little bubbles at the bottom to see if theres water in the gas. If not, I dump it back into the wing tank. Anything I'm missing?

There was a kid today who had to file a flight plan for a solo VFR flight to Lansing Michigan and while he was on the phone, he had to read off about 20 airports that he had to fly through. I was thinking to myself, whew glad that's not me!

Just a few more thoughts of today popped into my head:

1- My instructor said that all the turbulence was caused by flying over a city. There is all the heated concrete causing mini updrafts everywhere. I definitely envisioned flying to be less "bouncy" in technical terms. Can anyone who has flown over farms tell me about this? Is it smoother down low or not?

2- Man Cessna's aren't as big as I thought they'd be! I am a good 4 inches taller than the 172's wing. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif That and I barely fit in them. I need to duck my head to look out the window. In the Cherokee I have a great time getting in through that one door but I guess that's the price you pay for being tall...

3- I have to buy this pilot's kit from the school which has all my books, my flight calculator (craaazy slide rule thing), and my headset. Should I get a kneeboard?

One final thing that I must say is that flight simmers, as a whole, are older than other gamers. There are many many more flightsimmers here that are married, have kids, and a stable job than the average gamer who plays Quake - it just works out that way. So I just want to make one last point about funding. I am barely 20, still in school and paying rent for a new house...5000 dollars seems extravagant to no one more than me. Obviously I am going to have to make sacrifices to make it happen, but I have the feeling http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif that many here do want it bad enough. It can be done. If you ever thought about taking up flight, don't put it off. What's so cool about the community as well is that it is very similar to the FB community. There are the jerks every once in a while but overall, aviators are the nicest people on earth. They will share information with you and they are courteous. I'm sorry if I sound like a commercial it's just that I'm still excited and it changes you I guess.

Sadly, my mom requested I take pictures since she couldn't be there so I had to tote around a camera like a nerd. When they get developed I'll post pics.

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v251/Owlsphone/Sig.jpg
Vertically challenged since 1984.

LStarosta
07-09-2004, 05:57 PM
LOL! Nice, Turo!

http://home.comcast.net/~l.starosta/sig2.jpg
Spacer nad Berlinem!

El Turo
07-09-2004, 06:08 PM
Should I get a kneeboard?

Yes.

Also, I'd highly recommend getting a mechanical pencil and attaching a rubberband to the "clip" so you can keep it on your wrist at all times without having to fish for it.

I'd highly recommend buying a pencil flashlight and affixing a red lens (or attaching red celluphane to the existing clear glass) for night flying and put it on a neck-rope so you can't drop it.

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
______________________
This place
was once
a place
of worship
I thought,
reloading my rifle.

~V.

mortoma
07-09-2004, 06:40 PM
Owlsphone wrote:

"There was a kid today who had to file a flight plan for a solo VFR flight to Lansing Michigan and while he was on the phone, he had to read off about 20 airports that he had to fly through. I was thinking to myself, whew glad that's not me!

Just a few more thoughts of today popped into my head:

1- My instructor said that all the turbulence was caused by flying over a city. There is all the heated concrete causing mini updrafts everywhere. I definitely envisioned flying to be less "bouncy" in technical terms. Can anyone who has flown over farms tell me about this? Is it smoother down low or not?

2- Man Cessna's aren't as big as I thought they'd be! I am a good 4 inches taller than the 172's wing. That and I barely fit in them. I need to duck my head to look out the window. In the Cherokee I have a great time getting in through that one door but I guess that's the price you pay for being tall...

3- I have to buy this pilot's kit from the school which has all my books, my flight calculator (craaazy slide rule thing), and my headset. Should I get a kneeboard?"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have never heard of a VFR flight plan being filed with airports as waypoints along a route. Although I suppose you could use airports as waypoints. Are you sure they weren't VORs or NDBs???

Yes you can get bumpy over farms, alot of bumpy days are from gusty winds alone. Thermals might be only part of the equation. I fly in Indiana and believe me, we have farms!! So I should know.....lol If you have to fly on a day with nice round and puffy looking clouds, expect for the air to be bumpy at the same level as the clouds too.

I don't understand why they are telling you you have to buy the supplies from them. Is this a professional flight school?? I learned at a small grass airport which only had a FBO, they had all the stuff but they never said I had to buy it from them, which I didn't, at least not very much. If it's a licensed professional aviation school, I guess they could make you buy the stuff from them. What type of materials are you going to study for written test type of knowledge??

mortoma
07-09-2004, 06:54 PM
I also recommend getting training in at least two different types of aircraft. I flew my training in three different types. A Cessna 172, a 152 and a Piper Cherokee 180. Learning in varying aircraft environments makes for a good pilot. But your early training should be in only one, at least for the first 4 or 5 lessons or so.

Owlsphone
07-09-2004, 07:29 PM
Mortoma: I guess they are filing a flight plan because he is a student and still learning. Maybe a precautionary thing i dunno. edit: actually I think he was required to do full stop landings at the airports for the course.

It was a mostly sunny day today with cumulus at about 10,000 feet. It was bumpy up until 3,000 and magically it dropped off. Smooth as silk after that. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

This place is a real flight school. The pilot kit is a flight bag with all the books that they use for training and reference and a flight calculator. It's the Jeppeson Private Pilot kit. Can't remember if its the Part 61 or the Part 141 kit. They say it's 250 bucks but I'm looking online right now and the expensive one is only $199. I guess I should order it online.

I also thought ahead and am trying to get into various planes. They have Grumman Trainers which I was told are harder to fly and shouldn't be mixed in with Cherokee training. I sat at the controls and barely fit although I do like the feel of the Grumman's formula 1 racecar style yoke.

Turo: I thought I would want a kneeboard. They seem too convenient to turn down. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Your advice on the pencil is noted. I don't know how much night VFR flying I will do once I get my license but I sure will use the flashlight idea for my required 3 hours nighttime flying.

Thanks for the tips.

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v251/Owlsphone/Sig.jpg
Vertically challenged since 1984.

TD_Klondike
07-09-2004, 08:29 PM
These little planes are just kind of bouncy. After a while, you sort of get used to it, and before you know it, you're going to be remarking about how smooth it is on occasion, rather than how rough it is.

I'm 6'1", and I always thought the 172s were comfortable. You must be HUGE! Just for kicks, you should try cramming yourself into a 152 for a change of pace.

As far as the kit goes, there is going to be some necessary equipment, like a headset, plotter and wiz wheel, but they'll probably throw in some useless equipment as well. Here's the equipment you really need:

1. Headset
2. E6-B
3. Plotter
4. Logbook
5. Current sectional chart(s)
6. Current AF/D
7. A Private Pilot Manual (I used Jeppesen's, it's an outstanding book)
8. Private Oral Exam Guide (I like ASA)
9. Practical Test Standards (Again, recommend ASA)
10. FAR/AIM (I prefer the way ASA organizes theirs)
11. Knowledge Test Study Guide (Any brand, ASA is cheaper)
12. Pilot's Operating Handbook for whichever aircraft you're using.

If I'm missing anything, please add to it. These are the basic things you can't do without, and there are other things which can be fun (I have a mini flashlight that clips onto my headset) but they are TOTAL luxuries. For the most part, the price difference comes down to the headset. Ebay is a good place to look, I've been using a Sigtronics S-40 that I got for $100 (retails for about $170 or so). Had it for over three years, no problems. David Clark is recognized as the leading brand, but you end up paying for it. But, you get what you pay for.

As far as flying a variety of airplanes, I'm all for that, but for your pre-private training, I recommend flying one type of airplane and loving that airplane. At the early stages, combining multiple airplanes could lead to a negative transfer of learning. Maybe they have different procedures for an engine failure, or engine fire during startup. They definitely have different V speeds. These are things that you're going to have to have memorized for the checkride, and you don't want excess information cluttering up your reactions.

I wish you the best of luck. Flying is super exciting, and one of the most rewarding things I've ever done. I'm glad to see you're so exhuberant about it. The more you do it, the better you get, and the more you love it. It's pure magic.

TD_Klondike
07-09-2004, 08:32 PM
Oh, about smooth air around 2-3000 feet, it's because of surface friction affecting the movement of air masses. You are going to be a weather guru soon, and you'll be able to impress all your friends by predicting storms days in advance.

lindyman
07-10-2004, 12:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Owlsphone:
JK-1: How fast is too fast in testing? I stick the fuel shotglass thing under the wing and the fuel pours into it. I check for debris and little bubbles at the bottom to see if theres water in the gas. If not, I dump it back into the wing tank. Anything I'm missing?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wouldn't pour it back into the tank. If there is something in there that you've missed seeing, it's unnecesary to get it back in the fuel system again

Also, yes, there is something you've missed. Did you check it for colour and/or smell? Are you sure you didn't get the cup full of water only?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Owlsphone:
1- My instructor said that all the turbulence was caused by flying over a city. There is all the heated concrete causing mini updrafts everywhere. I definitely envisioned flying to be less "bouncy" in technical terms. Can anyone who has flown over farms tell me about this? Is it smoother down low or not?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There are many things that cause turbulence. Least turbulent on a cloudy day with no wind over a water or snow surface.

A city is definitely a place you'll get thermals over, but not the only place. If you fly over an area which is small farm fields, small forest patches, and small lakes, all over the place, you're in the a very bouncy ride if the sun shines and the wind is gentle.

You'll also find that wind generates turbulence, the stronger the wind, and the more hilly the ground, the more turbulence.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Owlsphone:
Should I get a kneeboard?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Definitely. When you go for a longer flight, you want a lot of information handy, as well as a place to jot down bits of info you get from the ATC.

When I go for a longer trip, I always have on my kneeboard, the drift plan for time followup, the approach plates for all airfields along my trip (in the order I will pass them) just in case I'll have to cut my flight short, and a blank piece of paper for taking notes.

Another thing I usually do is to jot down the ATC radio frequencies along the track line on the map.

Another tip for the pencil: Have 2, and have at least one of them tied to the kneeboard with a string. You don't want to be searching under the seat for a dropped pencil, especially not if you're in rather much turbulence, tricky navigation, lookout for traffic, and frequently get changed clearences from ATC.


Oh, and at 45deg bank, you haven't pulled any Gs yet http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif In your PPL training, you'll go to 60deg bank turns, which is 2Gs. At first you'll find that frighteningly steep and you really feel yourself pushed down in the seat. After a few times, though, it's not really anything you think of. Try an aerobatics lesson for Gs. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
_
/Bjorn.

BennyMoore
07-10-2004, 12:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LStarosta:
I wouldn't always trust my instruments... Especially since this is private pilot training, not IFR. Get to know your instruments and check em on the ground as he said, but when you've got a gut feeling that something is going on despite the readings on your instrument panel, go with your gut instinct.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd like to oppose that. Gut instint gets you killed. If you're in clouds, and your gut tells you you're straight and level, but your instrument say that you're in a spin, guess what - you're in a spin. Three out of four visual flight rating pilots who fly into clouds - die. Get your instrument flight rating, and trust your instruments. Does anyone remember the story of the B-17 Flying Fortress "Lady Be Good"?

I myself have only a dozen hours or so in a Cessna One Fifty Two. I'd rather learn on a tail dragger, but that's not viable. I know that they're harder to use while taxiing, taking off, and landing, and have no advantages over tricycle, but I love them. I don't know why. Unfortunately, I had to quit flying because of ****ing financial and medical problems. The last time I landed, my ears were bleeding (although I did not know it until my next physical checkup with the doctor) from altitude changes. There are other complications, like a constant headache and the like. As for the financial part, I took my first flight at fifteen years while working at Dairy Queen for five dollars an hour; I'm twenty now and a little more able to afford it - I've got several thousand saved and dedicated soley to getting my flight rating. But my current job sucks even worse than Dairy Queen, except for the pay rate. Even now, I'd only be able to fly once a week, due to a stupid work schedule (mandatory Saturdays blow goats).

But I'll tell you that the only times that I can remember (other than air shows) that I've truly been happy are all in the air. Say, what was the statistic on surveyed pilots who prefer flying to sex? I believe it was over sixty percent.

Anyway, good luck be with you. Don't do anything that you didn't plan on doing, unless you can't help it. Watch thine altimeter, lest the ground rise up and smite thee. God speed you, sir!

[This message was edited by BennyMoore on Fri July 09 2004 at 11:54 PM.]

tsisqua
07-10-2004, 03:01 AM
Can I add one thing about making sure that you are ready to fly? I've been caught in the beginnings of a real bad storm while just doing touch-n-goes. Don't play with that stuff: get down as soon as it looks like it MAY get bad. A good CFI shouldn't let you stay up too long when inclement weather could happen.


"Better to be down here wishing you were up there than to be up there wishing you were down here."

hunhunter-texas
07-10-2004, 05:08 AM
Well, i'm now 6 hours into my PPL course and loving every minute of it!! One thing that I found a huge help....dont laugh now....is Microsofts FS2004. Download a version of the plane you are learning in with a good flight model and you can refly lessons you have just done, practice for the next lesson and familiarise yourself with pre-landing checks etc... Plus, the scenery is close enough to help with getting to know the local area. Most major land marks & roads are on there which helps alot.

With regards to instruments, never trust your fuel gauge....they flick around all over the place!! And on a flight a couple of weeks ago, my altimeter stuck at 1500' and the instructor was telling me to desend to 1000'. I looked down and said 'Hey....i think we're lower than that already' We were at about 500ft!!! At that point the alti flicked round to 500ft. I dread to think what could have happened if we were decending through cloud in a hilly area.

TheStriker_p51d
07-10-2004, 06:00 AM
it really is a piece of cake. i have about 20 hours in my dads piper tripacer of actual stick time. i was just about to solo when i was told to get a job so i could finish out my ticket. well, now im on my way to the university of north dakota, to get my ticket, along with taildragger, multi-engine, and IFR. I am not sure if i will pursue a commercial lisence but who knows. Should be very fun.

Owlsphone
07-10-2004, 10:50 AM
Hey guys thanks for all the tips! They are really helping me out. I was always into the Flight Simulator series but for some reason FS2004 never pulled me in...I guess I'll fire it back up anyway and get some practice in. I have the CH Yoke which should help a little. My instructor keeps yelling at me for having 2 hands on the yoke. He says I should get used to flying with one hand on the yoke and 1 on the throttle. I can understand this on takeoff, landings, and below 500 feet, but do I really need to fly with only one hand on the yoke at all times?

lindyman: First off, I have to correct myself with the 45 degree bank. I actually did the 60 degree one-lotsa fun! If that is only 2 Gs then I sure gained even more respect for fighter pilots. The fuel is 100 octane and has a blue tint to it when I look in the tank. It almost looks like the wing is filled with Windex. The smell reminds me of the little plastic cement that I used to use to glue airplane models together. I only dump the fuel back into the tank if there is nothing wrong with it.

TD_Klondike: I am 6'7". As soon as I arrived for lessons the owner said "Uh, maybe we should see which plane he'll fit into." Fortunately I'm thin, so a gut won't get in the way of me pulling back on the yoke.

I've seen some tri-fold kneeboards for about $20 online. Are the tri-folds unnecessary?

I'm looking on www.mypilotstore.com (http://www.mypilotstore.com) for things right now. Being as I am new to the private pilot community, I don't know if the prices are good. Can anyone recommed a good website to buy my flight gear from? First things I need are the Jeppeson Private Pilot Kit and a decent headset. I don't need top of the line but of course I want something that will get the job done. I'm not too picky. You guys rule with all the advice and well wishes you are giving me. Much appreciated!

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v251/Owlsphone/Sig.jpg
Vertically challenged since 1984.

PBNA-Boosher
07-10-2004, 11:04 AM
That's actually a good idea. Where can I get a good, but relatively inexspensive headset?

As for the kneeboards, I don't use one. I trim the plane and pull out a map. Is a kneeboard easier? Couldn't we just make our own?

Boosher
_____________________________
"So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you..."
-Gandalf

lindyman
07-10-2004, 11:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Owlsphone:
My instructor keeps yelling at me for having 2 hands on the yoke. He says I should get used to flying with one hand on the yoke and 1 on the throttle. I can understand this on takeoff, landings, and below 500 feet, but do I really need to fly with only one hand on the yoke at all times?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It is a good idea in cruise flight too, but for another reason. Depending on the layout of the cockpit, you may want your map on your kneeboard, in your yoke/stick hand, or in your throttle hand. Regardless, as you travel, move the map in your hand so that you always have a finger at the position you're at right now. That way, your chances of getting lost are slim.

You also want one hand free for taking notes.

Also, if you're on a longins nav-flight, it's good to switch hands a few times to lessen the static burden on the shoulders.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Owlsphone:
I actually did the 60 degree one-lotsa fun! If that is only 2 Gs then I sure gained even more respect for fighter pilots.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yup, that's 2Gs. It feels a lot the first time, but really, you'll get used to it quickly.

I have only a few hours of basic aerobatics training, and the first time pulling 4Gs feelt like my cheeks were down my chest, but again, after a while I thought little of it (until my instructor pulled 4Gs when I wasn't prepared, and I got tunnel vision.) Haven't done more than that, though, and haven't done it for more than a few seconds, so I don't know what happens when you go further.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Owlsphone:
I've seen some tri-fold kneeboards for about $20 online. Are the tri-folds unnecessary?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, they're not necessary (even a kneeboard itself isn't necessary, but it does make things easier for you.) However... there are two basic kinds of kneeboards. One is a bit larger, just a simple aluminum board which you can strap some paper on. It's A4/letter-size and rests on your lap when you fly. They're very cheap, and works well if you fly a plane with a yoke. They're incredibly unsuitable for use in a plane with a stick between your legs, however, since it will limite the elevator movement (as I very quickly found out on my first flight in such a plane.) If you fly a plane with a center stick, get a smaller kneeboard which you strap to your leg. With that said, I do use a tri-fold myself.

If you fly a plane with a bubble canopy, get good sun screen. The perspex bubble doesn't limit UV radiation much, so it's easy to get burnt, especially when you're at altitude.
_
/Bjorn.

Owlsphone
07-10-2004, 11:40 AM
I just thought of something else...When using rudder pedals, should your feet be totally floating in the air or should you be resting your ankles on the floor with toes on the pedals? I noticed that on the CH pedals there is a rest for your feet to sit on but in the Cherokee 140, the rest is on the toe brakes which leads me to believe you don't want your feet to slip over the pedals. I am totally confused. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif I have really really big *ehem* feet (big socks of course) and I need to know about foot placement so that I can correctly steer with rudder and still be able to apply the brakes. Thanks again.

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v251/Owlsphone/Sig.jpg
Vertically challenged since 1984.

GR142-Pipper
07-10-2004, 11:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Owlsphone:
Hey everyone it is a great day! Today I am starting my training for my pilot's license. I'm trying to be calm and I'm trying to be laid back about it but I'm so darn excited. I want to know if anyone who has gone through the training has any advice or tips they can give me. Thanks guys.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You've been given some very good tips. Here are a couple that can help too.

1) Be rested and have something in your stomach when you fly. You'll be clearer-headed (safer) and enjoy it more.
2) Keep the coffee consumption down.
3) 90% of flying is headwork. Remember, YOU'RE the one flying the aircraft...not the controllers.
4) Be aware of your (and your aircraft's) limitations and fly within them.
5) Pay attention to the weather.
6) Make sure you have plenty of ammo. (snicker)

Have fun...and fly safely.

GR142-Pipper

lindyman
07-10-2004, 11:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Owlsphone:
I just thought of something else...When using rudder pedals, should your feet be totally floating in the air or should you be resting your ankles on the floor with toes on the pedals?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've been taught to do the latter. Rest your heels on the floor and the blade of your foot on the lower part of the pedal. When you need the brakes, move your feet up. The rationale for this is to avoid accidental braking, which in best case is just unnecessary expensive wear of the brake pads, and in worst case can kill you.

Your instructor will tell you this, however.
_
/Bjorn.

TheJoyStick
07-10-2004, 12:12 PM
How old do you have to be to get a license? 4k-6k is nothing for such a worthy investment.. Someone mentioned that he had a pilots license, but not a driver's license, so what's the age limit?


Also, if you have previous combat flight experience, what are the proceedures to get a private pilot's license? I am entering the aviation division of the USMC in an estimated 4 and a half years. I'll certainly be looking for one as soon as I get out =)

PBNA-Boosher
07-10-2004, 12:40 PM
In the United States, I believe you must be 16 years or older to get your license. So no problem for me. I'm not sure about anywhere outside the US, but still. I can fly a plane before I drive a car, and that's a real hoot!

Boosher
_____________________________
"So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you..."
-Gandalf

TD_Klondike
07-10-2004, 12:51 PM
16 to solo: 14 CFR 61.83(a)

17 for the private pilot certificate: 14 CFR 61.103(a)

Yeah, I'm a nerd.

Owlsphone
07-10-2004, 01:02 PM
You can be as young as you want to fly with an instructor, but like Boosher said, you must be 16 to solo.

Pipper: I chuckled to myself as I was up there because all of a sudden the thought popped into my head as to what damage I could do with some gunpods lol. The second time I came in for landing, I saw all the parked aircraft and thought about strafing the field. Man I am addicted...

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v251/Owlsphone/Sig.jpg
Vertically challenged since 1984.

Wood_663rd
07-10-2004, 01:35 PM
Talk about strange circumstances.....earlier today, before lunch I was sitting here reading this thread when my wife informs me lunch is ready and afterwords the kids want to have cake and open my presents. Today's my birthday http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
The last present I opened had a flight manual, vidio and recept for my first flight lesson. Is that wild or what, lol.

Owlsphone
07-10-2004, 02:42 PM
Wild and awesome Wood_663rd. I'm happy for you! You are a lucky man. Don't forget to thank the wife...

Oh I almost forgot...HAPPY BIRTHDAY! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v251/Owlsphone/Sig.jpg
Vertically challenged since 1984.

PBNA-Boosher
07-10-2004, 03:11 PM
You've got an awesome wife Wood_663. You're lucky to have someone that picks up on your hobbies! You should really do something for her to thank her. Leave the kids home and go out for dinner! She deserves it! Congratulations on your flight lesson though!

BTW, Owlsphone, after playing FB, it's normal to get those urges. I was in the plane with my instrucor when pointed out to me one of the old AT-6's that our airport has flying around. He was behind us on our 5 O' clock, gaining fast. But my instructor didn't say AT-6. He said "warplane." With my air combat instincts triggering due to the word: "warplane," I threw on full throttle and pulled a very high G, 360 degree turn in my little Piper Cherokee 140. Before my instructor knew what I was doing, I dove for the deck, hoping the "intruder" wouldn't spot me there. I was at 700 feet when my instructor realized what I was doing, and he tried to wrench the control column from my grip. But I held it steady. My speed was about 150 knots, 30 knots above the top allowable speed. Soon after I pulled into that dive, I went into a steep climb, and leveled out again at 1000 feet, and ended up nicely on the tail of the AT-6. Of course, since he was moving a few hundred miles an hour faster than me, he quickly landed his plane. The AT-6 pilot was completely bewildered by my little stunt, and afterward we talked for a half an hour on evasive tactics while my instructor was recovering from the shock I had given him. I don't think he knew that I knew what I was doing though. Still, it was the most fun I've ever had in a flight lesson, aside from soloing! (Still, don't scare your instructor like that, even if he is a really cool guy.)

Boosher
_____________________________
"So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you..."
-Gandalf

[This message was edited by PBNA-Boosher on Sat July 10 2004 at 02:20 PM.]

Korolov
07-10-2004, 03:39 PM
On the part of medical examinations - do they need to check your hearing?

I assume so since that would be mandatory for using the radio.

http://www.mechmodels.com/fbstuff/klv_sigp38shark1a.jpg

Dammerung
07-10-2004, 03:42 PM
Hahaha, Dogfighting in a Cessna! If only the Storch was flyable...
I had my first flight yesterday, and Have another one on Monday. I was in a 172S, but being only 5'2", My instructor wants me in the 152. He is an Ex-USAF F-4C pilot, flew out of Thailand. Found his plane too, it was a double MiG killer. He took us behind another plane into guns range, said he couldn't resist it. He's going to give me some F-4 Guncam and Airshow footage, i'll show it all to you if I can.

Question: What's a good headset to get? They're all in the 200+ range, but I dont know what's best...

Oh, there are no fighter pilots down in hell...
Oh, there are no fighter pilots down in hell...
The whole damn place is full of queers, navigators, and bombadiers...
Oh, there are no fighter pilots down in hell...

PBNA-Boosher
07-10-2004, 03:48 PM
Nope, not a Cessna, a Piper! A Cessna is made to look nice and perform well. A Piper is made to be rugged and reliable, as well as affordable to the common man. At least, that was the old motto. Still, it will hold together a lot better than any Cessna, though the 152 is a rugged plane alright. Still, it can't compare to the readiness and reliability of the Piper Cherokee 140. Actually, a few weeks ago, my instructor hit a deer on the runway, so he took the plane into the air, turned into the landing pattern, and landed the plane. The prop had chopped off the deer's head. The body was swept under the plane and almost half of the poor Piper was dinged up pretty good. There was no cut metal, but it some of the dents were 2 feet in! Still, the engine and performance characteristics were barely affected, there was just a lot of blood on the prop and under the plane. It looked like he had just used the plane below treetop level to cut apart infantry.

Boosher
_____________________________
"So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you..."
-Gandalf

eeeg
07-10-2004, 04:25 PM
Yes they "need" to check your hearing. But the check is something like the doctor speaking a little quiet like and then asking if you heard him.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Korolov:
On the part of medical examinations - do they need to check your hearing?

I assume so since that would be mandatory for using the radio.

http://www.mechmodels.com/fbstuff/klv_sigp38shark1a.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

IL2-chuter
07-10-2004, 04:49 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by PBNA-Boosher:
Nope, not a Cessna, a Piper! A Cessna is made to look nice and perform well. A Piper is made to be rugged and reliable, as well as affordable to the common man. At least, that was the old motto. Still, it will hold together a lot better than any Cessna, though the 152 is a rugged plane alright. Still, it can't compare to the readiness and reliability of the Piper Cherokee 140. Actually, a few weeks ago, my instructor hit a deer on the runway, so he took the plane into the air, turned into the landing pattern, and landed the plane. The prop had chopped off the deer's head. The body was swept under the plane and almost half of the poor Piper was dinged up pretty good. There was no cut metal, but it some of the dents were 2 feet in! Still, the engine and performance characteristics were barely affected, there was just a lot of blood on the prop and under the plane. It looked like he had just used the plane below treetop level to cut apart infantry.



I worked at a couple of Piper dealerships as a mechanic and saw some bizaar stuff. Clearly though, the Cherokee's damaged flight model is Uber . . .

Oh, and back in '76 on a long cross country up in Oregon, I was on a long descent when I couldn't take the monotony any longer and did a nice, big and slow barrel roll. I think that was on the trip I had two good mags on run-up but mid-flight (bored again) I reached up and did an impromptu mag check: the engine was only running on one, SURPRISE. Good Times http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

"I fly only Full Real in Il2 Forgotten Battles." -Mark Donohue

JK-1
07-10-2004, 06:08 PM
I apologize Owlsphone for not replying any sooner then this, But I was out on the Columbia river camping for two days, Lot's of fun http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif. Anyhow , I believe that Mr. lindyman answered your question very well about taking your time when checking your Fuel for Contaniments,There have been many accounts of engines stalling due to water in the Fuel eventhough the Pilot tested for it, And thats because of two common mistakes, 1st The Pilot got a vial full of Water and just asumed that it was fuel And the second is that if the plane is not always Tethered in a level position this might give the water other places to settle instead of in the sump and then it migrates to the engine at about 3,000 feet http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif . And just like Mr. lindyman I never put the tested fuel back into the Fuel Tank, I put it into a Fuel Can and then dispose of it, Or put it in your car and give the old Beast a little Kick http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Owlsphone
07-10-2004, 06:28 PM
Wow Boosher great story. It's a little scary to hear you tried evasive maneuvers on an AT-6, but cool as heck at the same time. I knew I wouldn't be the only one to have those thoughts while flying. Your story is very reassuring considering that I am training in a Cherokee 140. Now I know that one day I can shake that 109 off my six if need be.

There are MANY MANY exceptions that are made for people with disabilities. I was told that there are people that are totally deaf in both ears and have their private pilot's license. I, for one, am blind in my right eye. I was told to get the physical and in a couple weeks I would receive my rejection letter. Mr. Hortman told me NOT to flip out and think that my life is over. Getting rejected the first time is pretty normal and if you are less than perfect vision or hearing, it will happen. I just have to send in the appeal form. Before I get my license I have to get an official to blink a light at me out of the airport tower. If I can't see it, I fail. When I asked Mr. Hortman if it was hard to see his response was, "If you can't see the light then you shouldn't be walking." There are people with no legs flying.

So as long as you won't pass out in the air, have a heart attack, or a seizure - you're good to go.

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v251/Owlsphone/Sig.jpg
Vertically challenged since 1984.

Owlsphone
07-10-2004, 06:33 PM
JK-1 - No problem, hope you had fun. Sounds like a blast. Ok so if my plane is always tethered in the same LEVEL location on the tarmac, the fuel looks like fuel, and smells like fuel (I ALWAYS get the darn stuff to spill on my hand) when should I assume that there is a cupful of water? If the shotglass measuring cup won't enable me to test the water correctly, what will? I want to get out of bad habits now so that when I am flying a plane I am not so familiar with I don't have the same habits...

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v251/Owlsphone/Sig.jpg
Vertically challenged since 1984.

Owlsphone
07-10-2004, 06:35 PM
Oh and since you guys mentioned propeller damage I thought I'd share this pic I thought was pretty cool.
http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v251/Owlsphone/Sliced_Plane.jpg

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v251/Owlsphone/Sig.jpg
Vertically challenged since 1984.

mortoma
07-10-2004, 08:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PBNA-Boosher:
Nope, not a Cessna, a Piper! A Cessna is made to look nice and perform well. A Piper is made to be rugged and reliable, as well as affordable to the common man. At least, that was the old motto. Still, it will hold together a lot better than any Cessna, though the 152 is a rugged plane alright. Still, it can't compare to the readiness and reliability of the Piper Cherokee 140. Actually, a few weeks ago, my instructor hit a deer on the runway, so he took the plane into the air, turned into the landing pattern, and landed the plane. The prop had chopped off the deer's head. The body was swept under the plane and almost half of the poor Piper was dinged up pretty good. There was no cut metal, but it some of the dents were 2 feet in! Still, the engine and performance characteristics were barely affected, there was just a lot of blood on the prop and under the plane. It looked like he had just used the plane below treetop level to cut apart infantry.

Boosher
_____________________________
"So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you..."
-Gandalf<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Overall the record of Cessnas is just as good as Pipers. I have never had any trouble with Cessnas. If I thought they were unreliable, I would not fly them. I do like the Cherokee 180 though that I used to fly. Climbs so good seems like you're going straight up....A Cherokee 140 will barely carry two people, I hate them. They're Ok if you're by yourself with very little luggage.

darkhorizon11
07-10-2004, 10:31 PM
"Nope, not a Cessna, a Piper! A Cessna is made to look nice and perform well. A Piper is made to be rugged and reliable, as well as affordable to the common man. At least, that was the old motto. Still, it will hold together a lot better than any Cessna, though the 152 is a rugged plane alright. Still, it can't compare to the readiness and reliability of the Piper Cherokee 140. Actually, a few weeks ago, my instructor hit a deer on the runway, so he took the plane into the air, turned into the landing pattern, and landed the plane. The prop had chopped off the deer's head. The body was swept under the plane and almost half of the poor Piper was dinged up pretty good. There was no cut metal, but it some of the dents were 2 feet in! Still, the engine and performance characteristics were barely affected, there was just a lot of blood on the prop and under the plane. It looked like he had just used the plane below treetop level to cut apart infantry."

Boosher


Actually between Pipers and Cessnas I think Cessnas have it. I have about 90 hrs in 172s and about 70 hrs in Warriors. They get better performance (not by too much about 5kts or so) and handle much better. There much more stable but are harder to land.

My advice to you when you fly is to relax and use smooth control inputs. Don't over control is makes it sooo much harder. Remember the plane already knows how to fly better than you do your just guiding it!

JK-1
07-11-2004, 02:33 AM
Hello Owlsphone ,
If you take the correct precautions, as it sounds that you are by smelling and looking for color and that the aircraft is level you will be fine, But you have to take a little bit more care in testing your fuel after it rains ( if tied down outside ) and When the Humidity is High , And this is the largest cause of water in the fuel . When the air is Humid , It means that the air is saturated with water droplets and these droplets of water condense on the inside of the fuel tank and as more air condenses onto the inside of the tank, more water gathers in the tank itself untill you have a measurable amount of condensed water to cause a problem . Here is an Excerpt from the FAA Aviation Safety Program, ( Page 3 Article K )

k. Water condensation can occur in partially-filled fuel tanks when the temperature drops. Filling your aircraft's tanks at the completion of each trip will reduce the probability of condensation. (You can read the whole statement here . http://ntl.bts.gov/data/timetks.pdf) And this link explains Humidity - http://www.sfu.ca/~bquinton/teaching/geog311/Part1_3.pdf

I used to have big problems with the fuel tanks having water in them when I lived in New Jersey , The summers are very Humid and I based my two planes at Atlantic city's Bader field and Woodbine or Capemay airports And all three airports are near water and that just worsens the Humidity and needless to say the condensation inside my tanks , But I always keep my tanks full with fuel and took my time testing before I took off.

And here is a couple of riminder's why you should test Thoroughly for water in your fuel before you take off.


http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/brief.asp?ev_id=20001214X41523&key=1

http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/brief.asp?ev_id=20001212X18260&key=1

http://www.sumpthis.com/wheredidthewatercontaminationcomefrom.htm

FlyingFerris
07-11-2004, 05:37 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by PBNA-Boosher:
Nope, not a Cessna, a Piper! A Cessna is made to look nice and perform well. A Piper is made to be rugged and reliable, as well as affordable to the common man. At least, that was the old motto. Still, it will hold together a lot better than any Cessna, though the 152 is a rugged plane alright. Still, it can't compare to the readiness and reliability of the Piper Cherokee 140. Actually, a few weeks ago, my instructor hit a deer on the runway, so he took the plane into the air, turned into the landing pattern, and landed the plane. The prop had chopped off the deer's head. The body was swept under the plane and almost half of the poor Piper was dinged up pretty good. There was no cut metal, but it some of the dents were 2 feet in! Still, the engine and performance characteristics were barely affected, there was just a lot of blood on the prop and under the plane. It looked like he had just used the plane below treetop level to cut apart infantry.

Boosher

Actuallu Boosher as a flight instructor with experience in both Cessnas as well as Pipers, Beechcraft and Mooney Ovations, I'm gonna have to say you're dead wrong about the Piper being more rugged then Cessnas. There is a reason why just about evey flight school in the country uses 152s or 172s (now switching over to diamonds) they're are simply the most rugged aircraft made. Further proof, you don't see many piper singles being used up in Alaska either that's Cessna and DeHavlind territory simply because their landing gear are stonger. THis is not to dig on your old Piper 140 which is a fine aircraft, but as an instructor I have seen students put landing gear struts though wings, and I have yet to see a Cessna (non RG) with broken landing gear. Old Pipers and Cessnas are like apples and ornages both great for the common flying guy, just as an instructor I prefer a Cessna.

Owlsphone
07-11-2004, 06:33 AM
Thanks JK-1. I'm pretty sure that the flight school tops off the tanks after each lesson. So if wter is found when I am testing, do I just report it and they drain the tanks?

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v251/Owlsphone/Sig.jpg
Vertically challenged since 1984.

lindyman
07-11-2004, 06:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Owlsphone:
Thanks JK-1. I'm pretty sure that the flight school tops off the tanks after each lesson. So if wter is found when I am testing, do I just report it and they drain the tanks?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If it has been a warm humid day, and you leave the plane with 1/4 fuel over a cold night, you'll probably find a fair amount of water in the tanks in the morning.

That's no problem, though. Just keep draining until you don't get any more water.

Another thing on checking for water in the fuel; do that before you do anything else with the plane, definitely before moving it.
_
/Bjorn.

Owlsphone
07-11-2004, 08:06 AM
Ohh so I don't need to drain the entire tank. The water just drains out into the cup each time that I test the fuel? So water in the tank isn't a big deal as long as I catch it before I fly. Oh, I do test the tanks first thing while the plane is still tied down...

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v251/Owlsphone/Sig.jpg
Vertically challenged since 1984.

BinaryFalcon
07-11-2004, 09:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Sadly, my mom requested I take pictures since she couldn't be there so I had to tote around a camera like a nerd. When they get developed I'll post pics.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I do this all the time. I consider a digital camera to be part of my basic flying equipment, because you never know when you'll want to take a picture of something. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

As far as the turbulence goes, as someone already mentioned, it's generally from surface friction below about 2500-3000' AGL. Much above that and you'll usually find it drops off, along with the temperature and humidity. I remember several times flying under the hood on an approach when I could tell exactly when I passed through 3,000' on the way down because it was like I'd suddenly stepped into a warm, humid room compared to what it was like just 5 seconds before.

Kneeboards are good, you'll definitely want one. As for online shops, when I was getting a lot of my gear initially I ordered a good amount of stuff from http://www.spinnerspilotshop.com It's been a couple of years since I ordered from them, but I was extremely happy with their prices and service. They had the best price I could find on a set of David Clark ANR headsets.

Speaking of headsets, get a pair with ANR/NC (AKA, active noise cancelling). They cost a little bit more, but they are well worth the money. Makes the radios and anything else easier to hear and reduces fatigue greatly.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>BTW, Owlsphone, after playing FB, it's normal to get those urges. I was in the plane with my instrucor when pointed out to me one of the old AT-6's that our airport has flying around. He was behind us on our 5 O' clock, gaining fast. But my instructor didn't say AT-6. He said "warplane." With my air combat instincts triggering due to the word: "warplane," I threw on full throttle and pulled a very high G, 360 degree turn in my little Piper Cherokee 140. Before my instructor knew what I was doing, I dove for the deck, hoping the "intruder" wouldn't spot me there. I was at 700 feet when my instructor realized what I was doing, and he tried to wrench the control column from my grip. But I held it steady. My speed was about 150 knots, 30 knots above the top allowable speed. Soon after I pulled into that dive, I went into a steep climb, and leveled out again at 1000 feet, and ended up nicely on the tail of the AT-6. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I really hope you're kidding about that, or exaggerating a great deal. That's not cool at all. If you really do think nothing of aerobatic flight in a plane that's not rated for it, and casually ignore Vne (structural redline) of the aircraft, and refuse to release control of said aircraft to your instructor when you go on a wild excursion like that, you have no business at all being in an aircraft until you grow up a bit.

You're lucky you didn't get yourself, and more importantly, your instructor, as well as possibly the people in the AT-6, killed. You're also lucky if that instructor, or that FBO still has anything to do with you and didn't report you to the FAA. At the very least, did you at least fill out a NASA form to cover you from possible future enforcement actions resulting from this event?

As it is, you downed the aircraft (you did report an overspeed to maintenance, didn't you?) for inspection before it can be returned to flight and caused loss of income to the school, and even if they find no immediate damage you absolutely cut into the safety margin of that plane in the future. The structure has been weakened, and is now a little bit closer to failure than it once was. The real crime of that is that when it does fail, it'll likely fail on someone else, not you. Of course, they probably won't know beforehand that the plane has been overstressed like that, so it'll come as a complete surprise when something important comes off.

Along those lines, how do you know some yahoo hasn't done that to that plane before, or maybe several times before you tried it? Do it often enough, and there's a good chance the airframe can fail below redline. Going past Vne is stupid. Going 30kts past Vne is suicidal. You're incredibly lucky you're still here. Counting on the engineering margin of safety to keep you alive is a very bad idea, because every time that limit gets pushed, the margin is permanently reduced by some unknown amount and the only way to know where it is now will be when something finally breaks.

It's one thing to think about doing those things when you see a "Warplane" up there with you (we all do), but it's something else entirely to act on it (most of us don't).

If you don't have enough discipline to keep yourself from doing that sort of thing, you need to stop flying. Now.

Work on your self control and grow up a bit more, and then resume flying once you've matured a bit. Otherwise you're going to get people killed.

To reference one of the many cliches in aviation,

There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old, bold pilots.

Keep the mock dogfighting confined to sims, or aerobatic aircraft approved for such uses. There's a time and place for that sort of thing, but a training flight in a training aircraft is never one of them.

[This message was edited by BinaryFalcon on Sun July 11 2004 at 08:21 AM.]

lindyman
07-11-2004, 09:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Owlsphone:
Ohh so I don't need to drain the entire tank. The water just drains out into the cup each time that I test the fuel? So water in the tank isn't a big deal as long as I catch it before I fly. Oh, I do test the tanks first thing while the plane is still tied down...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The water is heavier than the fuel, so it lies at the bottom (as long as you don't move the plane around and risk mixing it.) The drain is at the lowest position of the tank, provided the plane is level, so if there's water in the tank, it'll be at the drain. Just keep draining until you get no more water, and you'll do fine.
_
/Bjorn.

Owlsphone
07-11-2004, 10:14 AM
Thanks for the website falcon, i'll have to check it out.


Lindyman, I'm glad to hear that water in the tank of an airplane isn't as much of a crisis as water in a car's gas tank. As long as I find the water before flight I'm fine then...

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v251/Owlsphone/Sig.jpg
Vertically challenged since 1984.

JK-1
07-11-2004, 10:53 AM
Hello Owlsphone,

Mr. lindyman is correct in saying That as long as you drain the water off before each flight then you will be fine, Aircraft are designed to direct the water to the sump , But as Mr. lindyman has already mentioned Don't mix the water and fuel by moving the Aircraft and I always waited 20 to 30 minutes after Fuelling up to test for water, So the water has time to migrate to the sump.

Another Good Idea is to carry that FAA written Test book where ever you go and learn every page in it. I read that book so much that the pages were falling off http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif , But I also got a 100 on my written test too. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif So enough of this technical jargon, You will learn plenty of this tech. stuff as you progress , SO GO HAVE FUN !!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

CYA - JK-1

Owlsphone
07-11-2004, 11:12 AM
Quit bragging JK-1 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

I'll take your advice about the test book. That thing is coming to work with me every day. It's not like I do anything anyway. As a matter of fact, I'm at work right now lol. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif I just really really hope my loan goes through so I can get my supplies asap. Anyone else finance their training?

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v251/Owlsphone/Sig.jpg
Vertically challenged since 1984.

BinaryFalcon
07-11-2004, 02:03 PM
With respect to the "written" test and studying for it:

The most effective way is to pick up a Gleim (or similar) book and study that. Go through and highlight all of the correct answers first, without reading the questions, and once that's done, begin studying by reading the question and then read only the highlighted answer.

Go through the book a few times that way and you'll ace the test. I normally don't advocate studying for tests in such a manner, but the written tests really are mostly pointless. They're not a particularly accurate judge of what you really know, and there are several questions in the testbank that have no right answer. All of the options are incorrect, but the FAA has designated that one of them is the one you should pick. They're errors, and the FAA has known about them for years, but the questions are still in there.

So the best bet is to just study the question and the correct answer, that way when you read the question on the test, the only answer that looks familiar to you will be the right one. It's also the only way (beyond pure luck) that you'll get an erroneous question "right" if you happen to draw one.

Good luck. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

JK-1
07-11-2004, 05:33 PM
BinaryFalcon Say's ...

So the best bet is to just study the question and the correct answer, that way when you read the question on the test, the only answer that looks familiar to you will be the right one. It's also the only way (beyond pure luck) that you'll get an erroneous question "right" if you happen to draw one.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;
JK-1
I had a very hard core Instructor and he considered this Cheating and would of dropped me from his roster if I took the easy way out, So he would test me without the book ,Untill it was engraved in my Head and then he allowed me to take the test. But to each his own !

Owlsphone
07-11-2004, 06:27 PM
I'll probably use both methods to study for the test. Of course I want to study the regular way so that I "know" an answer instead of just being able to recognize it when I see it. But I also hear what you are saying BinaryFalcon and I will take your advice about the erroneous questions.

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v251/Owlsphone/Sig.jpg
Vertically challenged since 1984.

WTE_Galway
07-11-2004, 06:43 PM
this is a good news group for student pilots

http://groups.google.com.au/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=rec.aviation.student

my experience with sims is that they generally help however FB is actually more useful than the fs2002/2004 series

doing visual circuits in an early war plane like an emil using track IR is actually very very useful for RT training

with the FS sims you can get a bit too instrument focussed (though the comment on relying on gut feeling over instruments will get you killed you ALWAYS trust the instruments first) and FS2002 at least is very dodgy in final flare and landing and can teach you some bad landing habits

_VR_ScorpionWorm
07-11-2004, 07:24 PM
Well, I wish I had the cash and time for lessons. But for you people living in the US try here:http://www.beapilot.com/indexfl.html only $49 for an intro flight.

http://img55.photobucket.com/albums/v169/Scorpion08/Hurri-1.jpg

www.vultures-row.com (http://www.vultures-row.com)

BinaryFalcon
07-11-2004, 07:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
I had a very hard core Instructor and he considered this Cheating and would of dropped me from his roster if I took the easy way out, So he would test me without the book ,Untill it was engraved in my Head and then he allowed me to take the test. But to each his own !<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I probably should have said, "most effective" instead of "best", but I can see where your instructor might be coming from. In general I'd agree that simply studying a test is cheating, but due to the conditions of my training, the written was often viewed as more of a formality than anything else (as was ground school).

At the time I was taking college courses that covered all of the information you'd find in ground school and on the test in far more depth than you'd get out of the "usual" sources. It mostly made ground school and the written fairly redundant, which is why studying the test itself was pretty much considered the norm for most flight students.

You definitely need to know all of the things that will be on the test, and I still feel that the test itself isn't a particularly accurate assessment of what you know. Any decent instructor is going to make sure you know all of those items before they turn you loose anyway, and when it comes down to it, that's what really counts. Besides, before you get your license you're going to have to pass both an oral and practical test, which should be far tougher than any written you'll ever see, which again, in my opinion, makes the written more of a formality to be dealt with than anything else.

But, as you say, to each his own! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

As a side note, during my training (at least until I got to Commercial), I very much felt that using the GPS was "cheating". I'd certainly keep it running and refer to it from time to time for information like groundspeed, or as a check to confirm my position, or most imprtantly, to avoid certain airspace, but I felt that I should do most of my navigation via pilotage and traditional radio navaids.

GPS is a wonderful thing, but if you go right to that early on, I feel that it really makes you a weaker navigator as you'll always expect a nice moving map to keep you oriented. Then again, I also don't think kids should be allowed to use calculators for math until high school. Learn it it master it the hard way first, then do it the easy way once actual use of the acquired skills begins.

Owlsphone
07-11-2004, 09:16 PM
Ok so I just got back from flying in FS2004. I downloaded the plane, fired up KPNE and put my plane in the same spot it is parked. I learned the taxiways which is pretty cool, took off, flew around the pattern a few times and came in for a landing. I even talked to ATC so I could get the lingo down. This all made me realize that Forgotten Battles is better for the flying portion and Flight Simulator is better for the other "stuff". I must admit though, it was nice seeing KPNE with all the buildings where they should be.

ScorpionWorm - I actually got my intro flight for 20 bucks! 45 minutes worth of flight for 20 dollars isnt bad at all. Just do a search on landings.com for airports in your area. Most places offer an intro flight and maybe you can get lucky and find one as cheap as I did. Heck, my instructor even counted the intro flight into my logbook.

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v251/Owlsphone/Sig.jpg
Vertically challenged since 1984.

Owlsphone
07-11-2004, 09:18 PM
BTW thanks WTE_Galway. I've been reading that forum it's pretty good, thanks again.

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v251/Owlsphone/Sig.jpg
Vertically challenged since 1984.

_VR_ScorpionWorm
07-11-2004, 09:22 PM
$20 bucks...WOW, cool....now to find an airport that does it(I live 60miles from San Antonio anyways) and to also find time so my wife and kids dont miss me. Im still young though(22) so Im sure I will have alot of time to do this. Thanks for the heads up Owlsphone, I was almost ready to pay $50.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://img55.photobucket.com/albums/v169/Scorpion08/Hurri-1.jpg

www.vultures-row.com (http://www.vultures-row.com)

Owlsphone
07-11-2004, 09:28 PM
VR, I'm 20. Oh there is time... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v251/Owlsphone/Sig.jpg
Vertically challenged since 1984.

TX-EcoDragon
07-11-2004, 10:02 PM
Consider an AOPA Mentor, they can help you with the little things, and in the end may help you to save time and money: http://flighttraining.aopa.org/learntofly/project_pilot/index.cfm?priority=SX04APPM

Don't be so thrilled that your finally flying that you ignore the fact that you have a rotten CFI! If he or she doesnt communicate well with you, then get another CFI! Of course hopefully he/she will be great!

For a headset I happen to think that the best passive headset (no active noise reduction) you can get is the LightSPEED Solo series. They are very light, they have a slim headpad so that taller pilots have maximized headroom, they have the best sound attenuation of any passive headset out there, and they manage this without as much clamping force as most David Clark style headsets, they are very light, and they are inexpensive. The only potential drawback is that they are not as durable as a David Clark. . . though under normal use they are fine, you just might deform or break them if you sit on them! Also, all LightSPEEDS have a separate volume box (like the batttery box on ANR headsets) and this can be a pain if you plan on doing aerobatics down the road (in aerobatic aircraft of course!!). These can be found for as little as $119.00-$130.00

(There is also an ANR version called the XC, and one with better sound quality and comfort called the SS)

For an ANR (active noise reduction) headset my overal favorite also happens to be a LightSPEED, the 20XL. The comfort, sound attenuation (active) and price are not matched by anything I have used, and I have used just about all of them. The trouble I have with this set is that the headpad is rather tall, so you may bump the headset against the visor when you learn forward or the ceiling in some tight cockpits. (I am 6'3)
These can be found from 400.00 to $440.00.

I do have some David Clarks and use the H10-13.4 in my aerobatics helmet, and the Sennheiser HMEC300 in the Extra and Edge. The DC's are very tough and stand up to the abuse of aerobatics competitions and being tossed in and out of various aircraft, but the Sennheisers are more comfy, sound better and are nice and light, which is a plus when your pulling the higher G's, but they are built much like the LightSPEED QFR series and generally about twice the price of the 20XL. The $1,000 Bose headsets are light, comfy at first and look cool and are almost a status symbol. . .but in the end they arent as comfy or quiet as the 20XL and they are nearly three times the price, on the other end of the spectrum there are 89.00 headsets that will work fine for your trainging, but will probably not last very long, and so you wont really save much money when you need to buy a replacement! So for me there really is no comparison in the market right now. Want the most comfortable, quiet, cost effective passive headset, get the LightSPEED QFR Solo, want ANR, get the 20XL. Most PAssive headsets will rely on clamping force to keep sound out, and becasue of this, they will become a bit uncomfortable after wearing them for more than an hour. During training most flights are short, but for XC's the extra price for something like the 20XL will not be as hard to justify as you tink!

The kneeboard is pretty much a required item if you plan on flying into controlled airports, use flight following (always a good idea but keep looking for traffic, they often don't call targets that are right next to you if they are busy!), or get your instrument rating. You will soon get used to using one hand on the yoke, and the kneeboard will be a better place to store pencils and papers and timers and such than your shirt pocket or the floor! I find some of the tri-fold boards to be a bit too bulky to be on when I am landing. . . I usually take them off once I am at the destination. . . so dont think that the huge one with 200 pockets that is a foot long is the best one. I have one I modified to have only two panels and I use that for IFR flying, and I have another simple clipboard that I use
for most VFR and aerobatics stuff.


And here are some sites worth checking out.

http://www.avionicswest.com/awionlinesales.htm#ZZ2R363L

http://www.sportys.com

http://www.marvgolden.com

http://www.planeandpilotmag.com

http://www.aopa.org

There is alot of good info in this thread!


S!
TX-EcoDragon
Black 1
TX Squadron XO
http://www.txsquadron.com

Member-Team Raven
http://www.waynehandley.com

First Slot Pilot Aircraft #4 of the Virtual Haute-Voltige Team
http://www.vhvt.com/

http://www.attitudeaviation.com/

http://www.txsquadron.com/uploaded/TX-EcoDragon/ravenvert.jpg

[This message was edited by TX-EcoDragon on Sun July 11 2004 at 09:41 PM.]

BennyMoore
07-11-2004, 10:14 PM
Bouncing bananas! My introductory flight was a hundred dollars. That was the going rate for flying lessons where I took them. And that was over five years ago! Now that oil prices have gone out the wazoo, I'd expected flying to be much more expensive.

Please, all real life student pilots list your location and lesson prices. I would be overjoyed to be able to fly for fifty dollars an hour, or even eighty.

TX-EcoDragon
07-11-2004, 10:25 PM
The costs of rental aircraft have gone up, about $10-20/hour for most places over the last five years. AvGas is anywhere from 2.60-3.10/gal right now (self serve), but it is insurance that has driven things up even more.

Typical rates of typical FBO aircraft (1975-1980 vintage) are 55-68 USD per hour Wet (including fuel) for a Cessna 152

75-85 wet per hour in a 172 or Piper Warrior or Citabria

95-130 per hour for something like a 182/182RG, 172RG, or SuperDecathlon.

and then of course it goes on up for newer, bigger, faster, retractable gear, GPS equiped planes. . etc etc.

Typical basic instruction rates are $30 per hour. So a half hour of ground time and one hour of flight time with an instructor in a 172 would be about 15+30+80 or $125. Of course once you are rated then you dont need to worry about paying for that pesky instructor!

Instrument/Comercial, tailwheel, and aerobatics instruction all cost some amount more, typically from 5-15 more per hour.

I am in California and fly out of 0O5, LVK, SZP and 3CA7 most of the time.

S!
TX-EcoDragon
Black 1
TX Squadron XO
http://www.txsquadron.com

Member-Team Raven
http://www.waynehandley.com

First Slot Pilot Aircraft #4 of the Virtual Haute-Voltige Team
http://www.vhvt.com/

http://www.attitudeaviation.com/

http://www.txsquadron.com/uploaded/TX-EcoDragon/ravenvert.jpg

BennyMoore
07-11-2004, 10:44 PM
Thanks!

Now, my ground school is an AOPA (I think) teach-yourself thing done on the computer with disks. It costed three hundred dollars.

Owlsphone
07-11-2004, 11:21 PM
BennyMoore - My flight lessons run about 100 bucks a pop. $66 per hour for the plane and $30 for the instructor. Of course if you go over the time limit you are charged more, so I haven't been under 100 bucks yet...

Thanks a lot EcoDragon. I'm going to look into those headsets that you recommended. I do not care about the best of the best. I just want something that will work and is comfortable - and reasonably priced. I have been looking into some headsets with cell phone inputs for the future when I might be on longer flights by myself. Do they work well enough for me to consider investing in one?

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v251/Owlsphone/Sig.jpg
Vertically challenged since 1984.

LuckyBoy1
07-11-2004, 11:53 PM
I am going to say something that seems to be like I am talking out of both sides of my head at once.

First, there is nothing to be worried or nervous about here. statistically, you should be about 1,700 times more nervous for the drive to and from the FBO than you should be while you fly.

However, with that in mind, you are going to build, especially at first, a kind of false sense of control. It's kind of an ignorance is bliss thing. It killed that Kennedy boy when he flew VFR in IFR conditions and yes, I know he had some IFR training, but apparently not the experience to obey his instruments.

This brings up my number four safety tip. ALWAYS TRUST YOUR INSTRUMENTS, period! No ands, ifs or sooner or later, flying will turn you into a but*

My number one safety tip is called a full loadout of fuel for even the shortest flight. Why? Well, if you ask the FAA the what the number one reason for small aircraft accidents is they will tell you it is due to having too much air in the fuel cells! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif

Second tip is that no matter how familiar you are with a plane, use a written checkoff list and actually do all the boring steps and not fake or pay half baked attention to any part of it. Also, make up your own, expanded checklist. This gives you a great opportunity to discuss safety precheck issues with experienced pilots who have already survived by dumb luck what you hope to avoid with your checklist. If you have watered down gasoline, guess what? It will be ruled as pilot error because that is one of the things you are supposed to check before even stepping into the plane.

My Third tip is to always trust your training and leave your "instincts" in the luggage rack because you don't need or want them.

My fifth tip is to learn how to fly in a plane with at least 180 H.P. engine that is a high wing design.

My sixth tip is to take your flying lessons at dawn. The air is as slow, dense and stable as it is going to be all day and there will be less traffic to deal with. Besides, this is the time of day you will see the serious pilots, not just the jokers who think they are one! An additional benefit is being able to enjoy more than one sunrise a day. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


I hope this helps and remember my seventh tip; they are fragile little things and if you hit something, chances are you will never be allowed to respawn again! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/1072.gif

Now with more fiber! It is newer & and even more improved! It's Luckyboy's Guide For Complete Users!...

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/luckyboy/LuckyboysGuide2.htm

Luckyboy = Senior hydraulic landing gear designer for the P-11 & Contributing Editor to Complete Users magazine.

TX-EcoDragon
07-11-2004, 11:55 PM
The Cell phone inputs are intended to be used on the ground only, the use of cell-phones in flight is restricted. The value of the cell phone input for me is that when I am departing an uncontrolled airport on an instrument flight plan I can call approach on the phone to copy my clearance after my pre-takeoff checklist is complete without shutting down the engine. This will make sense when/if you becoem instruemnt rated. As a VFR pilot the value is limited more or less to emergency situations. . . suppose you are in flight and there is some sort of emergency, you would have a devil of a time trying to hear anything, or be understood by anyone, on a phone. The LightSPEED QFR SOLOc has the cell phone input feature. The older QFR SOLO doesn't have the cell inpout feature, and will save you about $20-$30, but if you intend to become instument rated then its clearly worth it. . . and in an emergency it could be quite handy as well. Oh, one other thing to mention about the XL series headsets vs the QFR, the XLs have an input for a CD player, and a the headset will play the music but mute it when any voice communications come through. This is nice on longer trips. . . as long as it isn't a distraction.

http://www.anrheadsets.com/comparison.asp

S!
TX-EcoDragon
Black 1
TX Squadron XO
http://www.txsquadron.com

Member-Team Raven
http://www.waynehandley.com

First Slot Pilot Aircraft #4 of the Virtual Haute-Voltige Team
http://www.vhvt.com/

http://www.attitudeaviation.com/

http://www.txsquadron.com/uploaded/TX-EcoDragon/ravenvert.jpg

[This message was edited by TX-EcoDragon on Sun July 11 2004 at 11:04 PM.]

Buckaroo12
07-12-2004, 12:58 AM
Congrats on discovering real life flight!

Are you going strictly for your Private or are you going to carry it through to your commercial?

Some things I learned (some the hard way) on my way to my commercial licence.

1) As many others have mentioned ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS trust your instruments. As you get into the ground school your instructor should go over illusions in flight with you. The one exception I will make is if something is obviously incorrect. I remember one Cross country flight I made in a cherokee. The fuel tanks were reading half full but I knew I had gone too far to have only used half my gas. I landed as scheduled to top up my fuel and lo and behold it took full gas. If I had believed my fuel guages that day and skipped my refueling stop, I would've ended up as a greasy spot on someones field. But in general, DO NOT trust your instincts. Humans were never genetically programmed to sit down in aluminum tubes and hurl themselves into the sky, therefore we have absolutely no "Good" instincts about flying.

2) If you don't get a long with your instructor, get a new one. You are spending way too much money to settle for sub-standard instruction and if he can't communicate with you or you don't get a long you will miss something, I guarantee it.

3) It is better to be on the ground wishing you were flying, then to be flying and wishing you were on the ground. If you are unsure about anything (weather, airworthiness of airplane, airspace to crowded) cancel the flight or if you're already up, turn around. I was flying some hunters through a mountain range in the Yukon last summer, the boss told me the weather was alright but I had some doubts. Came out of a Canyon smack dab into a small thunderstorm. Obviously, I didn't try to dent a mountain with the plane because I'm here to write about it, but that's one set of underpants I will never wear again!

4) I don't know what the airspace or airport is like where you are, but from a monetary point of view I would look for a small uncontrolled airport. The reason for this is the flight school charges you at engine start time. If you spend 15 minutes sitting on the hold short line waiting for traffic, be assured that they are charging you for it. A small uncontrolled airport will have less traffic so more of your money is spent on AIR time rather then taxiing around!

5) I would do most of your flying in the cheapest plane you can find. Something like a 152 or a piper tomahawk (those are fun). You won't be able to take passengers (other then your instructor) until you have achieved your PPL, so the extra space in a 172 or even a cherokee is sort of a moot point. Do your training in a smaller cheaper aircraft and when you get your ppl you can get a checkout in something a little bigger (checkouts up here usually consist of about an hour and a half flight time)

6) While in flight; ATC does their very best and generally do a good job of ensuring seperation, but they are only human and sometimes they screw up. ALWAYS be scanning the sky for traffic and don't ever assume that the guy in the other plane knows what he's doing.

That's about all I can think of at the moment. If you think flying a wheel plane is addictive, I would really really recommend doing a float rating once you get your private. There is absolutely nothing in the world like float flying, the freedom there is indescribable! One last tip I will leave you with is when you go to do your written exam, read every question extremely carefully. I can't speak about US written exams, but in Canada they like to use tricky wording in their questions so if you read it one way, the right answer is there but if you read it another way, the answer for that is there too. I messed up more questions on my PPL written because I skipped over the question so fast I didn't understand what they were asking and chose the wrong answer.

There are a ton of good websites up there my favourite is www.avcanada.ca (http://www.avcanada.ca) This is primarily a website for professionals, but they do have a student pilot forum and a ton of knowledgeable people frequent it.

Good luck with your training and keep us posted!

lindyman
07-12-2004, 01:49 AM
Thanks EcoDragon for the tips on the LightSPEED head sets. I have a Sennheisser ANR headset, which I like a lot, but with that battery lump it's not usable for aerobatics. Where can I find an aerobatic helmet/hat thingie, that keeps the headset on in negatives that fits the LinghtSPEEDs?

Also to join in the choire, don't ever trust the fuel gauges. The other instruments you trust, but still look for obvious signs of errors in (the altimeter shows a climb, while the airspeed indicator shows acceleration. Probably not correct. Abort.)
_
/Bjorn.

BennyMoore
07-12-2004, 02:01 AM
http://www.qmfound.com/lady_be_good_b-24_bomber_recovery.htm

The version of the story that I've been told claims that their navigation instruments told them that they were over their base, but they could not believe it because they were not due over base for a long time. They had a very strong tailwind, and that put them over base long before planned. They flew over the base and into the desert.

AWL_Spinner
07-12-2004, 07:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
1) As many others have mentioned ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS trust your instruments. As you get into the ground school your instructor should go over illusions in flight with you. The one exception I will make is if something is obviously incorrect. I remember one Cross country flight I made in a cherokee. The fuel tanks were reading half full but I knew I had gone too far to have only used half my gas...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As an aside to that, when I was taught I was told explicitly to forget that the aircraft had fuel gauges in the cockpit. No instructor I've ever flown with seems to think they're worth looking at in light singles, so I never have. Well, apart from out of curiosity every now and again and they're generally laughably incorrect.

a) Always trust your FLIGHT instruments. They should be maintained to a very high standard and are there to save your life.

b) Let your flight planning calculations; knowlege of fuel-burn figures and VISUAL PREFLIGHT INSPECTION take care of fuel. Oh, and as someone else said, if you've no weight and balance concerns, fill up wherever you stop.

Cheers, Spinner

http://www.alliedwingedlegion.com/members/signatures/spinner_sig.jpg

mortoma
07-12-2004, 08:23 AM
The guys who talk about being careful and serious about doing your checklist are tellng you the truth. I blew through a checklist once and took off with the trim almost full up. When I rotated, the plane ballooned up into the air and gave me stall horn immediately!! You want to hear the stall horn on landing, not takeoff!! Only my quick reactions enabled me to shove the yoke forward in time. The plane I was flying was a STOL equipped 172 and I hit about 48 knots, my best angle was 50 knots in that particular plane but the speed would have bled down to 40 knots in one more second or so at the rate it was deteriorating. My nose was through 5 or 10 degrees per second. Take your time during checklisting/preflight. Better to sweat to death in a hot cockpit on a hot summer day for a while than end up being scooped up from the runway with a shovel. Flying is safe but only as safe as you make it.

AWL_Spinner
07-12-2004, 08:37 AM
mortoma, a recently released Transport Canada report on a C172 crash on take-off, resulting in several fatalities, cited just what you have described as a contributing factor.

I had a particular interest (if that's the correct word in such a case) in the report as it was an aircraft I had flown during my flight training and it was horrific to see photographs of it spread over the tarmac.

Always use your checklist. I've made some silly oversights in my time but thankfully none of them have been that serious. They could all have been avoided by proper use of the checklist so now I'm always extra-careful...

Cheers, Spinner

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Buckaroo12
07-12-2004, 09:16 AM
I wanted to add a little bit about headset selection. Pick a set that is comfortable on YOU. Personally Davey Clarks work great for me, but other people might find them to tight. Every set fits differently and if you can try for at least an hours flight before you buy, you're laughing. I would really recommend spending the extra bucks to get an active noise reduction set. The money is well worth it. There are also some aftermarket kits out there if you do not have the ability to grab these right up front. I put an after market kit in my DC's and am thrilled with it! I'm putting in a couple of hundred hours every summer, and the ANR makes the flights more comfortable and the only drawback I can see to saving my hearing is that I won't be able to ignore the wife's nagging when I'm 50!

Owlsphone
07-12-2004, 09:24 AM
Thanks Buckaroo. First, I chose my instructor. He is a kid about my age and he took me on my intro flight. I liked him a lot so I requested he be my instructor. Second, I understand what you are saying about cheaper airplanes. Believe me I wish I could fly in the cheapest for my lessons, but I am 6'7" so the airplane really does matter. I'll actually be safer in a Cherokee or a Warrior than a Cessna 152 or a Grumman trainer where I don't fit very well.

I've also heard that students are the safest people in the air and the older pilots are the ones to look out for. When you got your drivers license, you did everything by the book correct? It is with age that people become lazy to procedure. Trust me on this: I go by the checklist one by one and always will. Yes I have also thought about the fact that I am safer at the airport than driving up I-95 to get there...it's a scary thought.

I want a career in aviation and I don't know if I will go commercial. Right now I want to just get my PPL. I guess headset-wise I will get the best that I can afford so that I can be at least a little future proof. That music input does sound tempting thought. I don't want to have to listen to those AM stations anymore. I caught my flight instructor dancing to Aretha lol. He said that I'd have to get used to it if I want any music, but I am resisting getting used to oldies.

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Vertically challenged since 1984.

darkhorizon11
07-12-2004, 09:30 AM
However, with that in mind, you are going to build, especially at first, a kind of false sense of control. It's kind of an ignorance is bliss thing. It killed that Kennedy boy when he flew VFR in IFR conditions and yes, I know he had some IFR training, but apparently not the experience to obey his instruments.

This brings up my number four safety tip. ALWAYS TRUST YOUR INSTRUMENTS, period! No ands, ifs or sooner or later, flying will turn you into a but*


Ahh good advice. Be aware however, the instruments have limitations, know them well. Also as long as your VFR your scan should be 15% inside and 85% outside as you are required to maintain clear of clouds and visual seperation from other aircraft. Don't become overdependant on the attitude indicator. During VFR flight these instruments are only a reference to back up what your seeing outside.

JK-1
07-12-2004, 11:00 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif OK! Im back with one more addition to all the Great Advices that have been writen so far , And like many have said already, Go through that CHECK LIST very Throughly , And Remove all Controll Surface Lock's - Rudder - Aileron - Elevator - You Might make it back if you forget a Rudder or Aileron lock but not both because you can use the remaining control surface ,But you are pretty well screwed if you forget the Elevator Lock , Also dont forget the Air intake Plugs and Fuel - Fuel - Fuel http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

OK Im done , Now go Have FUN ! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

PBNA-Boosher
07-12-2004, 11:06 AM
Oh! One more thing! LOOK AT EVERY ASPECT OF THE PLANE DURING PRE-FLIGHT! What you find during that check could mean the difference between life and death!

Boosher
_____________________________
"So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you..."
-Gandalf

BinaryFalcon
07-12-2004, 11:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I want a career in aviation and I don't know if I will go commercial. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you want to get paid to fly, you'll be required to get a commercial certficate.

Money issues aside (both in the making and paying for training), if you continue on and pick up your instrument ticket next, you may as well go for the commercial rating afterwards.

I say this because the commercial ticket gives you a few more options, it will certainly make you a much better pilot, and most importantly (at least IMO), after getting through instrument, commercial is basically cake.

Short of getting an ATP, the Instrument ticket is probably the toughest thing to get. I know my commercial course felt fairly relaxed compared to what I'd been through during instrument training, and following commercial, multi was just pure fun. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Well, except for those extended periods of simulated or actual engine out practice, where your leg feels like it's going to fall off after about 5 minutes. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Rudder trim is lovely then.

I'll fully agree with the others that say don't trust the fuel gauges - ever. They're only required to be accurate at one point anyway, which is empty. It's perfectly legal to have a gauge that reads full until the tank runs dry, at which point the gauge drops instantly to "empty". Not a good way to keep track of your fuel.

Feel free to look at the fuel gauge during preflight and note what it reads, but always, always, always, visually verify the amount of fuel in the tanks before you take off, and plan accordingly.

Also, if you "stick" the fuel to check the level (often done with a graduated, clear plastic tube), verify every time that you're using one calibrated for the specific make and model aircraft you're testing. I recently read an article where the author had checked his fuel that way but was accidentally using a stick for a different model C172 than the one he was flying. He discovered his error only after running out of fuel in flight and he was forced to land on a road in the middle of nowhere.

I also saw AOPA mentioned. That's a great one I forgot. If your FBO doesn't automatically enroll you as a member, then definitely sign up on your own. It's just about the best $40/yr you'll spend in aviation. The Real Time Flight Planner they offer is just about worth the $40 alone.

mortoma
07-12-2004, 12:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JK-1:
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif OK! Im back with one more addition to all the Great Advices that have been writen so far , And like many have said already, Go through that CHECK LIST very Throughly , And Remove all Controll Surface Lock's - Rudder - Aileron - Elevator - You Might make it back if you forget a Rudder or Aileron lock but not both because you can use the remaining control surface ,But you are pretty well screwed if you forget the Elevator Lock , Also dont forget the Air intake Plugs and Fuel - Fuel - Fuel http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

OK Im done , Now go Have FUN ! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Weird, I have never seen a control surface lock on a plane. Just the thing you stick though the yoke column on a Cessna when you put up the plane for the day. They don't use them at the airport I fly out of. Maybe they are used on just certain aircraft??

Owlsphone
07-12-2004, 12:43 PM
I've heard AOPA mentioned a zillion times. What exactly is it and what does it offer me besides a real time flight planner?

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v251/Owlsphone/Sig.jpg
Vertically challenged since 1984.

TD_Klondike
07-12-2004, 01:10 PM
http://www.aopa.org/

See for yourself.

BinaryFalcon
07-12-2004, 02:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Weird, I have never seen a control surface lock on a plane. Just the thing you stick though the yoke column on a Cessna when you put up the plane for the day. They don't use them at the airport I fly out of. Maybe they are used on just certain aircraft??<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think he may be referring to a gust lock, which are less frequently installed on parked aircraft, although I can imagine they'd more popular in the plains states. They tend to be external clamp type locks that will physically hold the control surface in place to prevent damage during gusty conditions.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I've heard AOPA mentioned a zillion times. What exactly is it and what does it offer me besides a real time flight planner?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's a somewhat weak analogy, but to best relate it to something you may be familiar with, think of AOPA as being akin to the AAA of general aviation (GA).

You can call them up just about any time with aviation related questions, get lots of good reference info on most any airport in the US, get legal advice, life insurance, research aircraft histories if you plan to buy one. They also put out what is largely considered to be the best GA magazine out there, AOPA Pilot, as well as a publication for students and CFIs called Flight Training. As a new student pilot, I believe you can get a 6 month subscription to Flight Training for free. AOPA does a lot more than what I've listed, but those are some of the major benefits.

AOPA is an excellent resource for the new and not so new pilot, and they are the primary group looking out for the well being of GA.

Take a look, it's money well spent. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

(Plus, when you sign up you get a shot at the restored and upgraded plane they give away each year. Last year was a Waco. This year it's a Piper twin).

El Turo
07-12-2004, 05:17 PM
Buy the active noise reduction headset. Just do it and don't worry about the extra money.

Seriously.

Just buy it and thank me later, unless you're flying in very modern trainers that are much, much quieter than your typical trainer.. you're going to really love the noise reduction afforded by the nicer sets.

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Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
______________________
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was once
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I thought,
reloading my rifle.

~V.

siya
07-12-2004, 06:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mortoma:
QUOTE]Weird, I have never seen a control surface lock on a plane. Just the thing you stick though the yoke column on a Cessna when you put up the plane for the day. They don't use them at the airport I fly out of. Maybe they are used on just certain aircraft??<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Some High wind Airports require that you have Control Surface Locks along with using your internel Gust Lock. For 20 years I have always used them ,Eventhough I also use the Integral Gust Lock inside of my Cockpit as well , And in this manner your Control surfaces are protected from any wind that might whip up from the rear of the aircraft while tied down outside and put undue pressure on the Gust Lock( Which is on your yoke ) and the Control Surface Locks ( which are outside clamped down on the control surface )Keep your control surfaces and cable's from any unnecessary reverse stress from high wind. If you own your own Airplane or are planing some Cross country trips it's a good Idea to have these.

Here is an Excerpt from the EAA Oshkosh 2004 Planning Guide.
{Locking or restraining flight control surfaces can prevent damaging movement. For airplanes not equipped with integral gust locks, external padded battens (control surface locks) can be positioned or the control stick and rudder pedals inside the cockpit secured.}



http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifAnd here is a little more Info.Read the third Page down in this FAA Advisory Circular #20-35C

http://www1.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/1ab39b4ed563b08985256a35006d56af/3121c979af8a048c862569d60074b3b3/$FILE/Pages11-20.pdf

BennyMoore
07-12-2004, 09:27 PM
AOPA is a great resource and all, but you'll rue the day you ever heard of them if you ever unsubscribe. It took them over a year and a half to stop pestering me to resubscribe, even well after I told them firmly over the telephone that although I liked their magazine, I was unable to afford flight or AOPA at the present, and that I would contact them if I ever wanted to resubscribe.

Owlsphone
07-12-2004, 09:43 PM
There's active and passive noise reduction. I know that active is better (and more expensive), but what is the difference?

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Vertically challenged since 1984.

Copperhead310th
07-12-2004, 09:46 PM
Ok with all these private pilots around i want settle an argumeent with a guy at work (Josh).
he wants to get his licence but has a criminal record. (felony for too writing too many bad checks or so something like that) i told him i thought it would be damn near impossible for him to get his private pilots License with a felony criminal record after 9/11. he says he can. basicaly i think he's full of sheet. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

So what do you guys think? can Josh get his private pilots license after 9/11 with e criminal record given al the security mesures in place after 9/11?

(comon! i got 20 bucks riding on this!) http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

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310th FS & 380th BG website (http://www.310thVFS.com)

WTE_Galway
07-12-2004, 10:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Owlsphone:
There's active and passive noise reduction. I know that active is better (and more expensive), but what is the difference?

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v251/Owlsphone/Sig.jpg
Vertically challenged since 1984.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Passive relies on conventional gel packs to insulate you from cockpit noise .. active uses electonics that plays back an out of phase version of the noise so that it is cancelled out

The best solution is both .. a head set with good gel packs and an active module as well

Owlsphone
07-12-2004, 10:44 PM
Ok thats what I thought active was. Those are the ones with the battery packs or whatever on the cord so that you can electronically eliminate the sound.

Copperhead - Since they never did a background check on me I am assuming that you are able to get your private pilots license as long as you can pass to course. At least, I dont think they did a background check... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

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Vertically challenged since 1984.

TX-EcoDragon
07-12-2004, 11:12 PM
Great post Buckaroo12

Lindyman, for the Sennhesiers I just use a velco neck strap that loops around the area where the earcups join with the headpad. The Sennhesiers are lite enough relative to their clamping force such that they usually hang on just fine without needing a full blown helmet. If you fly a monoplane capable of the extreme G loadings or do much in the way of tumbles or gyrospic maeuvers and its really hot then sweat can allow it to slip a little under higher g loads. Many guys I know simply use yarn which they tie like a shoelace under their chins, though this is not really suitable for the more extrea acro. For DC style headsets I use the Perrone 711M available here:
http://store.yahoo.com/perroneleather/helmetsgoggles.html



Regarding AOPA

AOPA is handy, as a student pilot you should be able to get a free student membership which includes their flight training mag. After that you get their standard AOPA Pilot mag. They are a group that fights for pilot privledges, they offer legal services for pilots, they have webboards to organize ride shares and ask questions etc. they have a hotline that you can use to answer questions that other sources arent answering etc. I put off joining after my student subscription, but it wasn't long before I just went for automatic renewal each year. Thats just me though. the flight planner is great, one of the best out there I think, only thing I dont like is that it only stores two aircraft profiles.

ANR vs. Passive

The deal with active vs. passive headsets is as follows.

Passive headsets are simply earcups with seals that cover your ears to reduce the higher frequency sounds that you hear in the aircraft, mostly wind noise. These will help to prevent any substantial hearing damage that could result form not wearing any protection (bad idea!), and make it much easier to hear radio communications. BUT these rely on heavier weight (thicker earcups and often gel earseals) and high clamping forces to squeeze them against your ears to make a seal.

Active, AKA "ANR" (Active noise reduction) or "ENC" (electronic noise cancelling) headsets use the the same basic design as the passive headsets most of the time but incorporate a microprossesor in the earcups that monitor sound that gets through the earcups and then the headset transmits an opposite phase, equal magnitude sound wave that cancels the sound before it reaches your ear. Pretty high tech yet also a rather basic principle!

The main advantages to this is that ANR can target the frequency of sounds that passive headsets can't block, in particular the low frequency sounds that the engine and prop generate. The less obvious advantages are that the headset doesnt need to squeeze your head as hard which gets rather uncomfortable after and hour or two, and because the low frequency sounds fatigue you after a while the ANR makes longer trips much nicer. I also find that with the ANR headsets communications are far more easy to understand and because of this the volume can be lower on the radio also, which can be a factor that adds fatigue when you are listening to constant radio chatter.

Personally, if I knew I was gonna be flying for a while, and I had the cash available I would just cut right to the chase and get a mid range ANR set. Of course there are nice passive sets out there that you will use in the years to come as well even if you do upgrade to ANR as you will probably take passengers up and they will need headsets too!
You wont go wrong with the QFR SOLO, but you probably wont regret an ANR set either. . . especially if you plan to fly longer distance flights or in louder aircraft.


As far as the criminal record, as far as I know:

Well, lets just say it depends. The FAA looks at individual circumstances in some instances. If we are talking commercial or higher then no he can't as the applicability reqs state that the applicant must be "of good moral character." As a private pilot it may be possible as the regs aren't specific, at least those that I know of.

Now, Post 9-11 the FBI does do background checks, and there are options available now for the DOT to revoke any pilots ticket if it, or the FAA or FBI etc think you are a threat, without due procces, (this is one of the things AOPA acts to fight) so if he did manage he would almost certainly be monitored closely.

S!
TX-EcoDragon
Black 1
TX Squadron XO
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BennyMoore
07-12-2004, 11:21 PM
No matter what is keeping you from getting your private pilot's liscense, here in the United States you can always fly ultralight aircraft. It's the last resort, and one that the Federal Aviation Asshats - I mean, Administration cannot take from you at the present time.

In fairness, I suppose the Federal Aviation Administration is necessary, but do they really have to be such a pain in the buttocks?

lindyman
07-12-2004, 11:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TX-EcoDragon:
Lindyman, for the Sennhesiers I just use a velco neck strap that loops around the area where the earcups join with the headpad.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks, yes, I figured something such would do it. I still have to do something about that battery pack, though. Was it my own plane, I'd install a cig-lighter power plug, and use that instead, but alas, the plane is not mine and the owner doesn't want those several extra grams of weight on the plane. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif
_
/Bjorn.

Buckaroo12
07-13-2004, 12:53 AM
Back ground checks??? Wow, I thought Transport Canada was overbearing! If we required checks up here, we'd probably disqualify about half of the pro pilots in the country!

If you are considering going all the way through for your commercial licence with instrument, night, etc. One idea to make it more affordable is to buy a 172, fly the heck out of it and sell it at the end of your training. In hindsight, I wish I had done mine this way. My costs worked out to about $32000cdn. Looking back if I had bought a 172 my flight costs would've worked out to about $50-$75/hr (less if I found someone to go partners with) and I could've sold the plane with very little depreciation at the end of it. A word of warning about going all the way with this though, getting into commercial aviation is one heck of a tough job. I've been very lucky as I started a little later in life (I was 25 at the time) and had other skills to market to employers. I can't speak for the job situation in the states but up here brand new pilots are a dime a dozen and the insurance companies charge outrageous premiums. That being said, once you get your foot in the door and have the first few years of poverty under your belt, it is a very rewarding career and I wouldn't trade it for anything!

Back to the Passive/ANR headset subject. I think I mentioned earlier that you can get an aftermarket ANR module (for David Clarks for sure and probably others) Basically, you buy the cheaper passive headset. Save up a little more cash (about $115US I think) and ship your headset out to be fitted with the ANR system. That's what I did and it worked out great! Well, that's it for me for a little while! Days off are over and it's back into the bush! Guess I'll find out in the morning just how leaky the floats on that 185 are!

Owlsphone
07-13-2004, 01:03 AM
Buckaroo that sounds like an interesting plan. Buy your own plane and sell it after training. Unfortunately I'm still working out where the 6 grand is coming from for training. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

That QFR Solo is looking pretty good right now. Maybe if/when I get my license I'll look more into getting an ANR set. Heck, then I can use the QFR Solo as a backup or a passenger one. I KNOW I'm gonna want to take friends for flights.

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Vertically challenged since 1984.

BinaryFalcon
07-13-2004, 06:43 AM
Good stuff, EcoDragon, but I've got a couple of updates to what you said:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>the flight planner is great, one of the best out there I think, only thing I dont like is that it only stores two aircraft profiles.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

They just recently upped it to 5, I believe, which makes it even more useful. A quick look at AOPA's page claims, "Beginning immediately, you can now store five aircraft profiles instead of two; 10 routes instead of five; and 35 waypoints instead of 20."

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>there are options available now for the DOT to revoke any pilots ticket if it, or the FAA or FBI etc think you are a threat, without due procces, (this is one of the things AOPA acts to fight) so if he did manage he would almost certainly be monitored closely.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks largely to AOPA, the "Pilot Insecurity" rule is effectively dead. As of May 6, 2004, the TSA is no longer enforcing the rule. (http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2004/04-2-069x.html)

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I can't speak for the job situation in the states but up here brand new pilots are a dime a dozen and the insurance companies charge outrageous premiums.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's about the same down here. Even my backup plan (ATC) isn't going so well, because Congress has decided to not give the FAA any money to hire new controllers, despite the fact that they're already extremely short handed and it's only going to get worse over the next 5 years. Way to plan ahead guys, it's not like we haven't had 23 years' notice that we'd be short. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

LuckyBoy1
07-13-2004, 08:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darkhorizon11:
However, with that in mind, you are going to build, especially at first, a kind of false sense of control. It's kind of an ignorance is bliss thing. It killed that Kennedy boy when he flew VFR in IFR conditions and yes, I know he had some IFR training, but apparently not the experience to obey his instruments.

This brings up my number four safety tip. ALWAYS TRUST YOUR INSTRUMENTS, period! No ands, ifs or sooner or later, flying will turn you into a but*


Ahh good advice. Be aware however, the instruments have limitations, know them well. Also as long as your VFR your scan should be 15% inside and 85% outside as you are required to maintain clear of clouds and visual seperation from other aircraft. Don't become overdependant on the attitude indicator. During VFR flight these instruments are only a reference to back up what your seeing outside.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess I am too old school for all this. Of course, I always insisted on flying crates that were fully triple redundant on all instruments including fuel sensing systems. I am talking about full triple redundency on all full systems and not just the guages. Of course, this is not required and it is rare to find this sort of configuration in small aircraft. It adds weight and of course, sometimes a quick glance out the cockpit or knowing that you have been flying at a cetain fuel drain for a certain period of time would overrule the instrument. That brings up the point of course of cross checking things. Having fuel gauges does not relieve you of the responsibility of calculating fuel usage. Having GPS does not relieve you of the responsibility to check using other means to verify where you are at. Ask as many blue sky questions as you can think of while being trained about how to crosscheck this or that.

One more thing, never get into a situation where you have to decend blindly unless you are completely sure about where you are at. Seems easy enough at first, but is a real trick in reality. This is one of the reasons why I like a full load of fuel. It gives you the option of trying for another airstrip instead of guessing your way down. Many of these supposed "navigational errors" were actually someone who ran low on fuel, then decended through a layer to discover they found a tree or side of a hill or a power line instead of their intended target. yes, in a pure sense, the error was navigation, but the root of the need to navigate under less than ideal conditions was the lack of fuel.

Now with more fiber! It is newer & and even more improved! It's Luckyboy's Guide For Complete Users!...

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/luckyboy/LuckyboysGuide2.htm

Luckyboy = Senior hydraulic landing gear designer for the P-11 & Contributing Editor to Complete Users magazine.

Owlsphone
07-13-2004, 08:58 AM
Yeah the running out of fuel scares the bejeezus out of me. I am really happy that the flight school tops off all tanks before every flight and I'm there to see it.

BinaryFalcon - That "pilot insecurity" rule...Are you saying now that they don't do background checks?

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Vertically challenged since 1984.

WTE_Galway
07-13-2004, 06:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Owlsphone:
Yeah the running out of fuel scares the bejeezus out of me. I am really happy that the flight school tops off all tanks before every flight and I'm there to see it.

BinaryFalcon - That "pilot insecurity" rule...Are you saying now that they don't do background checks?

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v251/Owlsphone/Sig.jpg
Vertically challenged since 1984.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

hehe low fuel is nerve wracking .. but you should NEVER gointo your emergency reserve fuel

in a navex air race a few years ago in a 172SP we went off course and throttled up a few notches to make up time and finished up having to land at a bush strip or go too far into our reserve fuel margin

we waited 4 hours for someone to come out and unlock the fuel drums before going on but better than trying to get to the next major airfield on bingo fuel and no reserve for diversions or go-arounds