PDA

View Full Version : FW190A Engine Bug?



Fillmore
08-03-2004, 10:42 PM
This isn't a bug report, but more a request in tracking down a bug so that a report can be sent. It would be really nice if we could find a way to consistently reproduce this.

Since 2.01 I have noticed FW190A5/6 will have their engines go bad for no apparent reason.

Forget about testing this offline, I have been unable to reproduce it and it may require being online to reproduce.

Tonight in a COOP two squadmates had it happen at exactly the same time in FW190A5s. One of them was not using WEP and his engine was cool, neither had been hit. He started recording a track after it went bad, hopefully that is enough for Oleg to figure out the cause.

It has happened to me a couple times. The first time it happened was in an A6, I figured it was some kind of WEP timer that had been added in 2.01, but I was unable to reproduce it. Then it happened in an A5, and I was quite sure my engine was cool, but I resolved to be extra careful. The last time it happened I am certain my engine was cool and hadn't been hot for more than a few seconds at a time before.

Some time later I genuinely burned up my engine, and noticed that it was entirely different from what had been happening before, the sound and feel of the damaged engine was different. I havn't flown FWs much since 2.04, but when both my squadmates had it happen right at the same time it reminded me of the problem and that I had been unable to reproduce it offline, made me wonder if it had something to do with netcode that caused it.

Fillmore
08-03-2004, 10:42 PM
This isn't a bug report, but more a request in tracking down a bug so that a report can be sent. It would be really nice if we could find a way to consistently reproduce this.

Since 2.01 I have noticed FW190A5/6 will have their engines go bad for no apparent reason.

Forget about testing this offline, I have been unable to reproduce it and it may require being online to reproduce.

Tonight in a COOP two squadmates had it happen at exactly the same time in FW190A5s. One of them was not using WEP and his engine was cool, neither had been hit. He started recording a track after it went bad, hopefully that is enough for Oleg to figure out the cause.

It has happened to me a couple times. The first time it happened was in an A6, I figured it was some kind of WEP timer that had been added in 2.01, but I was unable to reproduce it. Then it happened in an A5, and I was quite sure my engine was cool, but I resolved to be extra careful. The last time it happened I am certain my engine was cool and hadn't been hot for more than a few seconds at a time before.

Some time later I genuinely burned up my engine, and noticed that it was entirely different from what had been happening before, the sound and feel of the damaged engine was different. I havn't flown FWs much since 2.04, but when both my squadmates had it happen right at the same time it reminded me of the problem and that I had been unable to reproduce it offline, made me wonder if it had something to do with netcode that caused it.

3.JG51_Stecher
08-04-2004, 12:28 AM
I noticed this a couple months ago. It is only with the A-5 and A-6. What happens is it overrevs the engine during certains dives. I've done a lot of testing to recreate this because it puzzled me when it first happened. It depends on the altitude and angle more than the speed itself, but if the RPM reaches about 3200 it goes for a couple seconds and then suddenly reads overheat and dies within seconds. The other 190As don't reach this RPM no matter what.

http://flygirl.dnsalias.com:8080/jg51/190sig.jpg


3./Jagdgeschwader 51
3./JG51_Stecher
www.jg51.com (http://www.jg51.com)

3.JG51_Stecher
08-04-2004, 12:52 AM
I should also mention that when it gave me the overheat message immediately followed by an engine inoperable message the engine temperature was 30 degrees under the overheat limit. Boost with 100% pitch and 110% throttle was used. The A-4 without boost doesn't quite reach the same high RPM, which makes sense, nor does the A-9 with different engine and propeller. But why the A-5/6 is different from the A-8 I don't know. Same engines and propeller right? And why fatal overheat when it's 30 degrees under the limit?

http://flygirl.dnsalias.com:8080/jg51/190sig.jpg


3./Jagdgeschwader 51
3./JG51_Stecher
www.jg51.com (http://www.jg51.com)

NN_EnigmuS
08-04-2004, 01:12 AM
a question does the fw190overheat so quickly,how does the engine cooling works?

don't understand the fact that you can hit open rad button,because there is nothing to open(like in P47 or D9)lol how does it work ?

http://www.nnavirex.com/public/enigmus.gif

NN_EnigmuS
08-04-2004, 01:15 AM
for your bug it's not a bug lol it's because you are at 100% prop pitch lol and in a dive the porpeller goes too fast and kill the engine when reaching too much RPM,it does the same on FwD9 but faster even not in dive because it take rpm much more than Anton

when going on a high speed dive with anton just not forget to go on auto pitch or goes to less prop pitch

http://www.nnavirex.com/public/enigmus.gif

3.JG51_Stecher
08-04-2004, 01:36 AM
The 190s engine cooling system is a whole other monster. As you pointed out they are slits not big outward flaps of any kind, yet the 190 takes about a 25 km/h hit when they are "open". I'd like to know why.

But back to the point, yes it's overreving when I fly at those settings and get the dive exactly right. But there is something screwy here. As I understand it, the A-5/6/8 all have the same engine, propeller, and boost system modeled in this game. Yet the A-8 does not experience the overrev. Anything else using a different engine/propeller combination will be completly different and isn't really relevant to what is happening here.

http://flygirl.dnsalias.com:8080/jg51/190sig.jpg


3./Jagdgeschwader 51
3./JG51_Stecher
www.jg51.com (http://www.jg51.com)

JG7_Rall
08-04-2004, 02:12 AM
What was the final verdict on the slowing down with rads open? I know Hunde emailed oleg about this issue but I don't know what the reply he got was...

"Son, never ask a man if he is a fighter pilot. If he is, he'll let you know. If he isn't, don't embarrass him."
Badges!? We don't needs no stinkin' badges!

jugent
08-04-2004, 03:25 AM
The Fw190 is a bug itself, the wrong revi-sight, it unpredictable stall characteristics, its woulnerability, its climbs-rate etc etc.
Someone up there seems to hate the FW.

JaBo_HH-BlackSheep
08-04-2004, 07:28 AM
the A8 does NOT have the same Engine as A5/6:

a 5/6 can provide about 1800HP on WEP
the A8 provides ~2000HP on WEP

and jes it's overreving, don't know about the speed loos, but i think it has quite an impact (don't even know why...they system was different from "just-opening-radiators")
but overreving is not overheat, maybe oleg should ad such a message, it is confusing sometimes.

http://home.arcor.de/sebastianleitiger/FB/Screens/Fw%20190A-4guns.JPG (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=63110913&m=185103665)

ZG77_Nagual
08-04-2004, 07:53 AM
I've seen this in the dora as well - it does appear to be caused by 100% prop pitch. the radiator vents in the 190 are INTERNAL - but they still cause drag. You do not see them on the outside but they still change the airflow in the cowling and this results in increased/decreased drag since air is moving through.

Hunde_3.JG51
08-04-2004, 10:12 AM
Like it or not, this was Oleg's resonse concerning radiator drag for FW-190A. As it says in the post I'm thankful that he took the time to answer. I don't know if I agree or not, but at least it is something to think about. Still seems silly that small slits located behind exiting exhaust cause so much drag, but I promised I would drop the issue so that is what I'll do.

Here is response:

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=63110913&m=882107045&r=453107045

http://www.brooksart.com/Ontheprowl.jpg

Formerly Kyrule2
http://www.jg51.com/

jagdmailer
08-04-2004, 10:27 AM
Slightly appart from the thread subject....one thing that I have noticed is that the Ta 152H-1 with WEP/MW50 is not much faster if at all then Fw 190A-5 with WEP at low altitude. I am not an expert on the Fw 190, but I am not sure if this should be.

BTW, since this is a Fw thread, I am thinking of doing a BMW801 family performance chart when I have a minute - for the ones that are interested.

Check out my DB605 chart:

http://www.axiomdigital.com/db605.htm

Jagd

Fillmore
08-04-2004, 10:53 AM
So why is it/should it be different than every other plane modelled with CSP? Setting "prop pitch" in planes such as this sets, not the prop pitch, but the RPM governor, same as with P51, P47, La5 et. al. But none of the others will ever everrev their engines with 100% prop pitch.

BTW please don't bring up the Dora or 109s in this thread, they do not have CSP (i'm talking about the ingame definition), with them "prop pitch" actually does control prop pitch directly, not the RPM on an RPM governor like with most planes.

3.JG51_Stecher
08-04-2004, 01:27 PM
------------------------------------
Originally posted by ToP_BlackSheep:
the A8 does NOT have the same Engine as A5/6:

a 5/6 can provide about 1800HP on WEP
the A8 provides ~2000HP on WEP
------------------------------------

All three aircraft use the BMW 801D-2. The historical difference is that the A-8 was equipped with a different boost system. I've seen both GM-1 and MW-50 referred to, utilizing the new 115 liter tank behind the cockpit. In this game we do not have those systems on the A-8. Engaging WEP gives the same message as the A-5/6, which says "Erh√¬∂hte Notleistung". I think it's been determined on here that this system involves injecting the C-3 fuel. This is why I say the A-5/6/8 are all the same in here. Is the "Erh√¬∂hte Notleistung" on the A-5/6 different than on the A-8? Because it is not GM-1 or MW-50, which is what is being referred to with the higher horsepower in historical sources.

http://flygirl.dnsalias.com:8080/jg51/190sig.jpg


3./Jagdgeschwader 51
3./JG51_Stecher
www.jg51.com (http://www.jg51.com)

Willey
08-04-2004, 01:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ToP_BlackSheep:
the A8 does NOT have the same Engine as A5/6:

a 5/6 can provide about 1800HP on WEP
the A8 provides ~2000HP on WEP<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's the same engine, but the A-5/6 didn't have boost. 1780HP is without boost, 2050 is with boost.

But In FB, they all have a boost switch. The error is that the boost switch just enables the normal 1780HP that she should have with just 110%. A-4 should either lack 110% or just have it very shortly (1min use), 100% would he 1560HP.

Fehler
08-04-2004, 03:12 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Fillmore:
So why is it/should it be different than every other plane modelled with CSP? Setting "prop pitch" in planes such as this sets, not the prop pitch, but the RPM governor, same as with P51, P47, La5 et. al. But none of the others will ever everrev their engines with 100% prop pitch.
QUOTE]

And that is the best question I have ever heard. I have wndered about this since AEP made the FW engines overrev. No one can answer this either. And all CSP planes should have the ability to overrev in a steep dive, it's called runaway prop. Yet only the FW190 family are afflicted by this "Correctness."

http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/FehlerSig.gif
http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/9JG54.html

faustnik
08-04-2004, 05:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jagdmailer:

BTW, since this is a Fw thread, I am thinking of doing a BMW801 family performance chart when I have a minute - for the ones that are interested.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Great news! looking forward to it! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mdegnan/_images/FaustSig
www.7Jg77.com (http://www.7jg77.com) is recruiting
CWoS FB forum. More Cheese, Less Whine. (http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=31)

jagdmailer
08-04-2004, 05:39 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stecher_3.-JG51:
------------------------------------
Originally posted by ToP_BlackSheep:
the A8 does NOT have the same Engine as A5/6:

a 5/6 can provide about 1800HP on WEP
the A8 provides ~2000HP on WEP
------------------------------------

All three aircraft use the BMW 801D-2. The historical difference is that the A-8 was equipped with a different boost system. I've seen both GM-1 and MW-50 referred to, utilizing the new 115 liter tank behind the cockpit. In this game we do not have those systems on the A-8. Engaging WEP gives the same message as the A-5/6, which says "Erh√¬∂hte Notleistung". I think it's been determined on here that this system involves injecting the C-3 fuel. This is why I say the A-5/6/8 are all the same in here. Is the "Erh√¬∂hte Notleistung" on the A-5/6 different than on the A-8? Because it is not GM-1 or MW-50, which is what is being referred to with the higher horsepower in historical sources.

http://flygirl.dnsalias.com:8080/jg51/190sig.jpg


3./Jagdgeschwader 51
3./JG51_Stecher
http://www.jg51.com<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Butch2K said no MW50 on Fw 190A-8 couple days ago.

jagdMailer

jagdmailer
08-04-2004, 05:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by faustnik:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jagdmailer:

BTW, since this is a Fw thread, I am thinking of doing a BMW801 family performance chart when I have a minute - for the ones that are interested.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Great news! looking forward to it! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mdegnan/_images/FaustSig
_http://www.7jg77.com is recruiting_
_http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=31_<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have already started http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

BTW, I have made some new improvements yet to the DB605 page. Check it out when you have a chance.

This is getting addictive....... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif

Jagd

Check out JagdMailer's Daimler-Benz DB605 page: http://www.axiomdigital.com/db605.htm