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Woof603
01-23-2004, 02:01 PM
This is one of four posted at pcgamer http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v30/woof603/p80.jpg

http://www.spaads.org/denmark/spsabre.JPG

Woof603
01-23-2004, 02:01 PM
This is one of four posted at pcgamer http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v30/woof603/p80.jpg

http://www.spaads.org/denmark/spsabre.JPG

ElAurens
01-23-2004, 02:12 PM
Can't wait....

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georgeo76
01-23-2004, 02:18 PM
oh yea! I can hardly wait http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


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VW-IceFire
01-23-2004, 02:23 PM
Should be fun to have some historical what-if scenarios with the P-80 challenging German jet fighters.

- IceFire
http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/spit-sig.jpg

Taylortony
01-23-2004, 02:30 PM
Personally I can't see why it is coming into the game, It was never used In combat during the war in any real sense, I know one or two were shipped over for trials.
It would have been better if the effort had been spent in producing something like the Meteor as at least that saw actual Combat... Suppose it's Pandering to the American Market, but you might as well of added a Phantom while you were at it. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Korolov
01-23-2004, 02:31 PM
Actually the P-51 is going to be their marketing strategy, judging by the box art.

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg

Bearcat99
01-23-2004, 02:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Taylortony:
Personally I can't see why it is coming into the game, It was never used In combat during the war in any real sense, I know one or two were shipped over for trials.
It would have been better if the effort had been spent in producing something like the Meteor as at least that saw actual Combat... Suppose it's Pandering to the American Market, but you might as well of added a Phantom while you were at it. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif
Then pander away Oleg if that's what it is. Why cant you guys just be glad that we are getting a littl diversity. No one will be twisting you arm to get you to fly it........... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

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ElAurens
01-23-2004, 02:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Taylortony:
Personally I can't see why it is coming into the game, It was never used In combat during the war in any real sense, I know one or two were shipped over for trials.
It would have been better if the effort had been spent in producing something like the Meteor as at least that saw actual Combat... Suppose it's Pandering to the American Market, but you might as well of added a Phantom while you were at it. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It is in the game because someone (Gibbage)took the time and effort to model it for free. Sheesh you would probably turn down a free BMW because it wasn't a Ferrari.

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MiloMorai
01-23-2004, 02:58 PM
A sign of things to come, P-80 vs Me262 &gt; P-80 wins.) http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif



Long live the Horse Clans.

Bearcat99
01-23-2004, 03:01 PM
Who knows...maybe we will get a Meteor.

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Indianer.
01-23-2004, 03:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Taylortony:
Personally I can't see why it is coming into the game, It was never used In combat during the war in any real sense, I know one or two were shipped over for trials.
It would have been better if the effort had been spent in producing something like the Meteor as at least that saw actual Combat... Suppose it's Pandering to the American Market, but you might as well of added a Phantom while you were at it. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Never a truer word said.....this is how the game is going, I remember when the origional game first came out, all the Americans were still playing CFS1. I had so many discussions about how IL2 was a better game but the response i got went along the lines of "there aint no American planes in it". So they kept with CFS, now look.

"durch wehrwillen zur wehrkraft"

WUAF_Badsight
01-23-2004, 03:59 PM
that pic is on UBI shop site too ... all 4 of them : )

ever since FB's release there was planes for a Luft46 project TonyT

you knew about it

the TA-183 also might get into FB & it Couldnt have flowen

these planes add to FB & make it a more enjoyabel game

they affect the campaign mode in no way at all

the more planes the better

tttiger
01-23-2004, 05:51 PM
"What if....."

Gibbage just tossed in an F-16 instead. We could call it "Falcon FB."

It's the history that fascinates me, not the fantasy. And just cause it's free doesn't mean it belongs in this plane set.

A PE-2 or a TU-2 or a Hellcat or Corsair would have been time better spent.

Thanks but no thanks.

ttt

"I want the one that kills the best with the least amount of risk to me"

-- Chuck Yeager describing "The Best Airplane."

Snoop_Baron
01-23-2004, 06:03 PM
hmmm, maybe because the F-16 is from a completely different era...

The P-80 was done by a hobbyist on his own time. If a Hellcat was delivered to Oleg at the same time and same quality I'm sure it would have taken priority over a P-80.

http://www.endlager.net/fis/pix/banners/fis_banner_01.jpg

Arm_slinger
01-23-2004, 06:34 PM
I am a realism jockey and i have to admit i'm not sure what to make of these jets and 109z's and all the other "fanatsy" stuff being mixed in.

I dont think people will mind as much provided they are kept controlled and not abused. Setting up fantasy servers and such like. To see a gotha charging down my P38 would greatly piss me off due to the inaccuracy of it


Oh well its early days we'll see how it pans out

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TigerTen10
01-23-2004, 06:52 PM
TigerTen + Me262a1 = Flaming P80

TigerTen

ajafoofoo
01-23-2004, 07:00 PM
Get over it. Most servers run limited planesets.

So if you don't want to, you never have to face one of these fantasy planes.

Go drop a few thousand dollars and model your own "proper" plane for FB instead of crying.

Gibbage has improved IL2 FB infinitely more than anyone who complains about plane addons.

necrobaron
01-23-2004, 07:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ajafoofoo:
Get over it. Most servers run limited planesets.

So if you don't want to, you never have to face one of these fantasy planes.

Go drop a few thousand dollars and model your own "proper" plane for FB instead of crying.

Gibbage has improved IL2 FB infinitely more than anyone who complains about plane addons.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Here,here. Well said....

Taylortony
01-23-2004, 07:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Go drop a few thousand dollars and model your own "proper" plane for FB instead of crying.

Gibbage has improved IL2 FB infinitely more than anyone who complains about plane addons.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not complaining, i just said personally i would prefer to see Aircraft portrayed that actually historically did play a part in the war........ As for the complaint part of your post, read my original, I expressed a personal opinion, We all do our bit to improve things, me?, i skin, i don't expect any reward for it either, but i do it to increase the pleasure of those that wish to use my skins and for the change it gives me from working on the real things, period.
As for a previous post....quote

It is in the game because someone (Gibbage)took the time and effort to model it for free. Sheesh you would probably turn down a free BMW because it wasn't a Ferrari.

I'm not disputing that, as i said it was a personal opinion, but if he had decided to do a Sabre do you think that should have been added because he took the time to do it? It would have been as historical correct.
I bought this game because it is historically correct amongst other things and is sold on that advertising wise, I just wished the time had been spent on adding some of the missing and more historical Aircraft to the list that are being worked on, but have not made it, instead of ones that had no bearing on the war. I does feel like they have been added to simply to appease an American Market though.
Bit like a Hollywood version of events during WW2 really...

[This message was edited by Taylortony on Fri January 23 2004 at 06:31 PM.]

necrobaron
01-23-2004, 07:24 PM
I do wish the Brits(as far as jets go) had the Meteor and even the Vampire,but I'm not going to complain about what we are getting. The P-80 should be an interesting ride....

dannnyjos
01-23-2004, 07:59 PM
I think that historical accuracy should take precedence over marketing fantasy.

Ins_Javert
01-23-2004, 08:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dannnyjos:
I think that historical accuracy should take precedence over marketing fantasy.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would imagine that you only play on full real servers, historic battles only, and in the correct historical numbers, with the axis being severly outnumbered at times. I would be very surprised if you were on dogfight servers at all, they are as far from historic as you can get. The whole idea that we are flying around in WWII aircraft IS FANTASY, hello.

LEXX_Luthor
01-23-2004, 08:43 PM
The Noobs can't admit to secretly wishing to play a dynamic campaign that simulates WAR into 1946, with the possibility of Germany winning the WAR.

__________________
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willyvic
01-23-2004, 10:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
The Noobs can't admit to secretly wishing to play a dynamic campaign that simulates WAR into 1946, with the possibility of Germany winning the WAR.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Agree to your point. My point? I think some are just looking for that one and only uber plane that will allow them to dominate the DF skies regardless of their gaming skills. To be able to relive their CFS1 days. To say the heck with the original intent of the game. To.....ah, but that's just me.

http://www.rcaf-squadron.org/willyvic/images/mig3u.jpg

necrobaron
01-23-2004, 10:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
The Noobs can't admit to secretly wishing to play a dynamic campaign that simulates WAR into 1946, with the possibility of Germany winning the WAR.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I admit that,but I don't know if I'm quite a "n00b",though....http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Thrawn888
01-23-2004, 10:40 PM
while the p80 is nice i would also like to see a vampire http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif then the big three jet owning countries would be present to battle around i say the vampire because the vamp mk.I is far superior to the meteor except in maybe ground attack.

i wonder if a vamp could beat a me262 or p80?

WUAF_Badsight
01-23-2004, 10:47 PM
the P-80 was a WW2 design

it was developed during WW2

it flew during WW2

how qualified does a plane need to be

it affects offline play ZERO

you P-80 complainers need to get real

Oleg started the whole thing off himself

the intention that there would be a 46 add-on was present RIGHT FROM FB's RELEASE

this game WAS NEVER SUPPOSED TO STAY WITH-IN August 1945

its called a jet , i hope you get endlessly shot down by it

not that you will see it at all very much

necrobaron
01-23-2004, 10:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
the P-80 was a WW2 design

it was developed during WW2

it flew during WW2

how qualified does a plane need to be

it affects offline play ZERO

you P-80 complainers need to get real

Oleg started the whole thing off himself

the intention that there would be a 46 add-on was present RIGHT FROM FB's RELEASE

this game WAS NEVER SUPPOSED TO STAY WITH-IN August 1945

its called a jet , i hope you get endlessly shot down by it

not that you will see it at all very much<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

HellToupee
01-23-2004, 11:35 PM
i belive the hawker hunter first flew in 1943, tho it went into service much much later it flew during ww2 :P.

http://lamppost.mine.nu/ahclan/files/sigs/spitwhiners1.jpg

Weather_Man
01-23-2004, 11:57 PM
Looks pretty darn good to me. Can any one post the other three pics? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

ElAurens
01-24-2004, 12:26 AM
If the P80 were German, and had the same development timeframe and deployment in Europe you whiners would be begging to have it.

Be sure.

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Blottogg
01-24-2004, 01:03 AM
Sorry HellToupee, but the Hunter won't make the '46 cut (great aircraft though it is.)

http://www.thunder-and-lightnings.co.uk/hunter/history.html

As for the P-80, I'm tentatively looking forward to it. My biggest reservation isn't the historical aspect (the plane never got a chance to shine in WWII, and was largely outclassed by Korea, so I'm curious to see what it can do in Europe) but rather the current Ai flight model. Without some tweaking, these jets will bat-turn at high speed in the hands of an Ai pilot, just as the prop planes currently do. Without any changes, jet speeds will just make this worse. Hopefully Oleg and crew will tweak the Ai FM's a bit for the Aces expansion.

To those who's favorite isn't included yet, and are blaming the P-80 for it, a couple of thoughts:

- Keep the suggestions coming. I'm sure it helps the modelers know what people are interested in seeing next.

- There is a not-so fine line between suggesting and whining. If you're just going to whine, spend your time more productively by learning 3D Max and building a model and cockpit for your airplane. Either that, or pay someone else to do so. Whining doesn't work after about age five (and shouldn't work even then.)

- Don't fly missions/servers with planes you don't like. It's a luxury the real vets didn't have.

- This sim is all about "what if". How many of you have racked up 400+ kill campaigns (DGen cries "uncle" at 1000, BTW)? This is just as unhistorical as a Go-229 or P-80 combat sortie in WWII, but just as fun to explore. Again, the good news is that you have much more control exploring these "what ifs" than the original participants ever did.

Gibbage worked his @ss off to build these models, and I'm grateful for his efforts. I'd like to see the Vampire, Meteor, Tempest, Gladiator, Dewoitine, Bloch, etc. But unless/until they arrive, I guess I'll just have to "suffer" with the 80+ flyables we've got now, or are in the pipeline (tongue inserted firmly in cheek.)

Blotto

"Speed is life." - Anon
"Sight is life. Speed is merely groovy." - "Junior"

SkyChimp
01-24-2004, 05:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MiloMorai:
A sign of things to come, P-80 vs Me262 &gt; P-80 wins.) http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif



Long live the Horse Clans.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



Don't bank on it Milo, I mean look at at it this way:

1) There is a very detailed NACA report on longitudnal handling available to Oleg.

2) There is a very detailed report from the NACA on lateral control, including detailed roll charts with and without drop tanks.

3) There are detail climb figures available.

4) High speed dive test reports are available.

Gee whiz, with all that available, there is no doubt -- the FM will be screwed up http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Regards,
SkyChimp
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Freycinet
01-24-2004, 06:06 AM
P-80 is the most enduring warplane design ever, it still flies today as trainers (Canadian air force for instance).

Part of the attraction of a simulution is that it makes a-historical match-ups possible. It's a great plane for FB!

269GA-Veltro
01-24-2004, 06:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tttiger:
"What if....."

Gibbage just tossed in an F-16 instead. We could call it "Falcon FB."

It's the history that fascinates me, not the fantasy. And just cause it's free doesn't mean it belongs in this plane set.

A PE-2 or a TU-2 or a Hellcat or Corsair would have been time better spent.

Thanks but no thanks.

ttt

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bump, totally agree.

An F6F or a Corsir would have been a great addon! Corsair or Hellcat against Zero......a dream, but P 80 who shoot down Me 262 is really......bippppppppppppppp....., historical for sure.
NP for me, but P 80 have to fly like an YP80..not like a T33...for sure not like an F 16.
That it.

269GA~Veltro
http://ourworld.cs.com/VeltroF/mc202tav4.jpg

SA5_Albe
01-24-2004, 06:45 AM
Nobody asked to Gibbage to model the P-80 and nobody must accept that plane just becouse he spent time to model it!

The P-80 just flew in the WW2 in test mission and that plane never have seen a enemy aircraft. Never in combat, just 2 flew in Italy and 2 in England.

The P-80 is included in FB just becouse the american players wan't a uber AMERICAN planes who can easy kill all the other planes in a dogfight room.

Oleg two are the reasons becouse IL2 fist then FB had so big success:

1)accurate and HISTORICAL planes in the game.

2) No easy to cheat on-line

Don 't change your mind and don 't make this sim a fantasy airwar children game.

The planes we need fist are the: Pe2, the spit ( i forgott which one is the version used on the est front), the IAR, the Macchi 200,the Macchi 202 ect ect no this childrysh plane good only for frustate pilots who can 't accept they have just to learn to fly if the wont to get kills during a dogfight and no a uber fantasy plane.

Best regards

Albe

SkyChimp
01-24-2004, 07:11 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SA5_Albe:
Nobody asked to Gibbage to model the P-80 and nobody must accept that plane just becouse he spent time to model it!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree. I'm sorry you won't be buying the add-on. It'll be great. But you are obviously a man of principal so I understand your boycott of the add-on.

BTW, when will you be done modelling those other planes you say we need first?



Regards,
SkyChimp
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ElAurens
01-24-2004, 07:32 AM
Why do I not see the venom about the P-80 directed at the Go-229 as well? It is as much a "fantasy" aircraft put in the game to "pander" to the pro Luftwaffe side as the P-80 is to the Allied side, but never a word of protest about it.

And as for the P-80's combat record in Korea. It was exemplary. In the first all jet air combat a Mig-15 was shot down by a P-80, and the P-80 went on to have a very successful career in the ground attack role...

Be sure....

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p1ngu666
01-24-2004, 07:33 AM
must admit im tempted to make a miles m52 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
see you the other side of the sound barrier http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Astaldo711
01-24-2004, 08:06 AM
I think adding the Meteor would have been a good idea. Although I like the idea of "what-if" campaigns. I remember playing the expansion for "Aces of the Pacific" and you were able to fly the Tigercat, F8F (forget designation), F-80, etc. It was pretty cool. If there were a choice between aircraft that actually saw combat, and fantasy planes, I'd rather have the real ones. I've read, however, that spinach green colored F-80 flew a couple missions in italy or something. Hard to get the facts because some sources say they never flew any missions at all.

Chuck_Older
01-24-2004, 08:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Taylortony:
Personally I can't see why it is coming into the game, It was never used In combat during the war in any real sense, I know one or two were shipped over for trials.
It would have been better if the effort had been spent in producing something like the Meteor as at least that saw actual Combat... Suppose it's Pandering to the American Market, but you might as well of added a Phantom while you were at it. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well of course you realise that the Phantom didn't exist then but the P-80 technically did.
Why all this negativity about another American plane? I can't understand it. The P-80 is not going to ruin FB. All the time it's somebody's fault that FB is going in one direction or another, and someone will always dislike it. You make it sound like the P-80 is going to be not only over-modelled to satisfy folks who live in a certain country, but that it will be flying missions over Leningrad in 1943 in a campaign.
Who has said that will happen? Who has quoted Oleg as saying "to hell with historical reality. Some people like the F-22 and it will be in Forgotten Battles because I'm sucking up to folks from (insert name of Evil country here)"

Look up how many aircraft shipped with Forgottn battles that existed in extremely low production. Several of them were in stages of single digit or barely double digit production. How many Morko-Moraines do you think existed total? (that plane confuses me, because Morko is just a nickname- Ghost -not a manufacturer)

This is like the whole B-239 thing in a way. B-239, F2 A1, B-339, not the same plane but folks complained and discussed it for ages here. they let their imaginations go a little wild assuming about the plane and it's capabilities. Now it's speculation about the P-80. It won't stop, but come on, the P-80 is not going to destroy FB. And it is not like adding a Phantom, you must know that without me pointing it out. Maybe Oleg should delete all planes from the US and more people will be happier.

*****************************
This is a public service announcement~Clash

Sternjager
01-24-2004, 08:48 AM
i really dont get all this complaining guys...
u dont like the P-80? U don't fly it, period.
We were worried about the 262 as well, remember? "He's historically accurate but is gonna kill the online playing!", is this happened? no...
Ppl who love "the real thing" might join the VOW, ppl who love doing nonsense-but-funny dogfights can join a free dogfight session.
I personally agree on the fact that maybe Gibbage could have spent his time on something else, but as stated before he did it for free, he did it fast and above all he did what he liked. He even built a P-38 and Spitfire set but nobody is paying attention to it, why ppl only see what they want to???
As per Oleg decision, he said a lot of time ago that the insertion of these jets (Go229, P-80) was more a test bed than other, and since they work fine why not having them?
Just remember, we all live in free countries and we have the power of choice...
Want a specific aircraft? Go modeling it as the guys who r doin it. I'm just a painter, working on the Macchi cockpits, it has been a long and difficult road but maybe we'll see them ingame, and the last thing i want to hear is somebody complaining about our job...
Grow up kidz...

SJ

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Taylortony
01-24-2004, 09:00 AM
Well of course you realise that the Phantom didn't exist then but the P-80 technically did.
Why all this negativity about another American plane? I can't understand it. Maybe Oleg should delete all planes from the US and more people will be happier.
[/QUOTE]
I have nothing against American Aircraft or their people, I count a lot of them as close personal friends, what i said was Personally I would like to have seen the time spent building and adding historically inacurate WW2 combat aircraft, all be it from any Country, into producing and getting some of the Actual combatants into the game, like the B17 flyable, a Liberator etc and maintaining the Purity of the game, instead of diluting an excellent selection of Aircraft with the banal

Old_Canuck
01-24-2004, 09:35 AM
Taylortony, no disrespect intended but I think there's room in this sim for anything that flew or almost flew because we bought it to entertain ourselves right? Some of us are better entertained by historical realism and some of us want to get a "feel" for the unusual planes. Planesets can be restricted for online play can't they? We have a choice. Personally, I've been enjoying the BI-1 offline missions. Just had to turn the speakers down a bit that's all ... those explosions during my "perfect landings." http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

OC

"You don't stop playing because you grow old, you grow old because you stop playing."

Woof603
01-24-2004, 11:02 AM
I want the P80 because the first jet I flew was the T33. About ten hours dual before soloing in the F86. I mention this because IL2 Forgo tten Battles is many different things to many different people. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.spaads.org/denmark/spsabre.JPG

altstiff
01-24-2004, 11:27 AM
Darn if I'm not a history fan too. But it is a GAME after all is it not?

I say fly what you want.....

(I'll be in that spit or the B-25 99% of the time anyway)

See you in the fence....

1.JaVA_Razer
01-24-2004, 12:20 PM
I see a lot of P-80 whiners(against them) but Go 229 was finished cockpit and all,Fm the works,before the P 80 was. and why did they hold back the go 229? yes until the P 80 was ready. SO now you have a little competition http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
The corsair IS being done but by a beginning modeler if I remeber correct so hold on to your lugnutts. It IS coming it'll just take a little. I asume it's 90% finished and it'll need a cockpit still but don't whine people. You will be getting new maps,missions,skins and other non-jet planes. you don't have to play with them. I will because I like to experiment with these and I hope there are servers that are JET-only. But as the allied side responded against the ME 262 you now respond against P 80. ME 262 did see action indeed but what did it do??
How many missions did it do/ undertake and how many kills. the gotha was even in testperiod. So have fun and fly'm if you want and if you don't want don't fly'm it's as simple as that. but off course I will be flying both the p80 and the gottha. Just for fun. they WILL NOT play a segnificant role. it will just recuire new tactics,more divercity in planes in servers and add a lote more "In the bigger picture"-feeling in games.

269GA-Veltro
01-24-2004, 12:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by altstiff:
Darn if I'm not a history fan too. But it is a GAME after all is it not?

I say fly what you want.....

(I'll be in that spit or the B-25 99% of the time anyway)

See you in the fence....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mmmmmm...disagree.

FB...yes is a game but.......not only: is the BEST!
We have to defend it..or will have another CFS.

I repeat...do you want P 80? No problem you'll have it..and is a very good model by Gib, as usual.
But you'll never have it in Vow..i mean, but only in the dogfight rooms....for an arcadish game. FB is other....

What a lot of us say is:

- FB is a WW2 sim......not only is the best ever; if you like jets, please fly with Lock-On or SFP1;
- We thank GIB everyday, but is not Gib the problem; P 80 and jets without historical FM are the problem. We need jets in FB? I think no.
- Me 262 is not P 80....is Me 262; is quite different;
- Will have an YP 80? It's ok! We'll have a T 33....mmmmmm; we'll have an F 100...i hope no; we'll have an F 16? Surly not in Vow, Vef and others competitions.
- It never fought in WW2...never; but it killed a lot of american pilots. It was only a protipe, but we are afraid that in FB will have a Super Sabre......not an YP 80. Only this.
Somebody has said here that it was probably better, of course, than Me 262..................

This is the "problem"!!! How is the P 80 FM? Why we had to fight against Me 262 with a P 80, when USAF fought with P 51? If we'll have an YP 80 it will be wellcome..waiting for more Spitfire models; but if it will be an F 16....

That it.

269GA~Veltro
http://ourworld.cs.com/VeltroF/mc202tav4.jpg

[This message was edited by Veltro on Sat January 24 2004 at 12:07 PM.]

essemm
01-24-2004, 01:13 PM
To the haterz:

If you don't like it, it's real easy...don't select it in the drop down box when you are choosing an aircraft. It's not like Oleg and company are removing planes from the set. Sheesh!

&lt;sarcasm&gt; Hi gift horse! Wow...what a nice mouth you have there.

http://server3.uploadit.org/files/141103-warloch_small.jpg

SUPERAEREO
01-24-2004, 01:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sternjager:
i really dont get all this complaining guys...
u dont like the P-80? U don't fly it, period.
We were worried about the 262 as well, remember? "He's historically accurate but is gonna kill the online playing!", is this happened? no...
Ppl who love "the real thing" might join the VOW, ppl who love doing nonsense-but-funny dogfights can join a free dogfight session.
I personally agree on the fact that maybe Gibbage could have spent his time on something else, but as stated before he did it for free, he did it fast and above all he did what he liked. He even built a P-38 and Spitfire set but nobody is paying attention to it, why ppl only see what they want to???
As per Oleg decision, he said a lot of time ago that the insertion of these jets (Go229, P-80) was more a test bed than other, and since they work fine why not having them?
Just remember, we all live in free countries and we have the power of choice...
Want a specific aircraft? Go modeling it as the guys who r doin it. I'm just a painter, working on the Macchi cockpits, it has been a long and difficult road but maybe we'll see them ingame, and the last thing i want to hear is somebody complaining about our job...
Grow up kidz...

SJ

visita il sito italiano di IL-2 Sturmovik!!!
http://www.il2sturmovik.it<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you SJ, I am really getting fed up with all this P-80 bashing too.

I would have been more than happy if the add-on had contained only planes that saw effective service on the Eastern Front, but I really find it difficult to understand all this animosity towards that plane. Is it because it's American? Because in real life it never met any Axis opposition? Because it's a jet?

I don't hear anyone complaining about the Go.229, which flew ONLY ONCE as a PROTOTYPE...

Why the different standards?

Salute all.

WUAF_Badsight
01-24-2004, 01:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SA5_Albe:
Nobody asked to Gibbage to model the P-80 and nobody must accept that plane just becouse he spent time to model it!

The P-80 just flew in the WW2 in test mission and that plane never have seen a enemy aircraft. Never in combat, just 2 flew in Italy and 2 in England.

The P-80 is included in FB just becouse the american players wan't a uber AMERICAN planes who can easy kill all the other planes in a dogfight room.

Oleg two are the reasons becouse IL2 fist then FB had so big success:

1)accurate and HISTORICAL planes in the game.

2) No easy to cheat on-line

Don 't change your mind and don 't make this sim a fantasy airwar children game.

The planes we need fist are the: Pe2, the spit ( i forgott which one is the version used on the est front), the IAR, the Macchi 200,the Macchi 202 ect ect no this childrysh plane good only for frustate pilots who can 't accept they have just to learn to fly if the wont to get kills during a dogfight and no a uber fantasy plane.


Albe<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


wow ... it was Oleg that wanted the P-80 in FB

he was the one who asked for it to be moddeled

just ask the person who made the P-80 for FB , Gibbage

i hope every one of you P-80 complainers get shot down by it endlessly

you frickin spoil sports , i bet you all take lollies away from children because they are too sweet

i can tell aniseed fans a mile off

SUPERAEREO
01-24-2004, 01:23 PM
Hey, I like aniseed..!

In pastis or ouzo form, generally. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Korolov
01-24-2004, 01:29 PM
Everybody seems to be against Lockheed aircraft coming into the game. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg

ElAurens
01-24-2004, 03:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Veltro:
Somebody has said here that it was probably better, of course, than Me 262..................

This is the "problem"!!! How is the P 80 FM?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The performance of the P80 is well documented. It had a long and successful service with the USAF.
If anything it's FM will be far more realistic than the Gotha's, because of all the documetation on it, and , the sheer numbers of people that have actually flown one.

And I will repeat: If the P80 were a German aircraft, identical in every way to the US one, flown the same number of times in Europe, and with the same flight performance there would be no complaints from you or anyone else about it.

What does that tell you?

_____________________________

http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/Curtiss_logo.gif

BlitzPig_EL

Copperhead310th
01-24-2004, 04:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by essemm:
To the haterz:

If you don't like it, it's real easy...don't select it in the drop down box when you are choosing an aircraft. It's not like Oleg and company are removing planes from the set. Sheesh!

&lt;sarcasm&gt; Hi gift horse! Wow...what a nice mouth you have there.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

&lt;sarcasm&gt; Hi gift horse! Wow...what a nice mouth you have there.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif essemm your killing me . lmfao! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
All i know is i can't wait to do this!
http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v30/woof603/p80.jpg
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif After a year of fighiting & killing these dam 262's in P-39's/40's/47's the P-80 will be most welcomed. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://imageshack.us/files/380th%20siggy.jpg

VW-IceFire
01-24-2004, 04:33 PM
Interesting that we always have a soley multiplayer skew here. The possibilities for single player P-80 missions and fun are definately there as are all of the other what-ifs.

Multiplayer isn't the only thing going...remember http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

- IceFire
http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/spit-sig.jpg

Cess-Harp
01-24-2004, 05:00 PM
It allows us to have a what if battle.. like if the Allies did not invade in 44 , but where held off till later years.. if Germany had won over Russia,, and was getting ready to invade England.. NO I don't see a problem with it.

The more planes that are in the sim the better , and the longer life the game will have..
More power to them for taking the time to make the game the best and most fun there is.

Triscadec
01-24-2004, 10:18 PM
"A PE-2 or a TU-2 or a Hellcat or Corsair would have been time better spent.

Thanks but no thanks.

ttt"


Is it really that hard for people to understand? If you don't want to fly it, then don't select it as the players aircraft. If you don't want to fly against it, then don't fly any missions online or offline against it. If it bothers you to the point where you can't enjoy the game, then don't buy the add-on, and stay with Forgotten battles patched to v1.22.

It's really pretty easy.

T

V_Flatspin
01-24-2004, 11:10 PM
Anybody remember when the rocket came on the scene? Everybody was afraid of Bi's takin' over the world. Flash in the pan.

This sim is taking a gradual turn toward other arenas ie: Western front, X-planes, etc and though I bought it for the Eastern Front aspect, I can't say it's a bad thing. I have NEVER seen a game's creators so interested in giving it's consumers what they ask for. I think Oleg and UBI should be lauded.

Personally, I'll probably fly the P-80 for about a week then jump back into my IL2. No biggie.

http://ivedog.com/assets/images/misc/avatars/avatar_flatspin_001.gif
http://www.the-volunteers.com/

Thrawn888
01-25-2004, 01:07 AM
i support p80 all the way.

personally the addition of the meteor and vampire would be great course if they were added many would be angry and whine about the influx of jets.....

Aaron_GT
01-25-2004, 03:23 AM
I welcome the inclusion of the P80. And Gibbage
is doing a lot of good work for core WW2 planes
too, so I think he is allowed a little indulgence!

On the other hand, any plane not of the core
WW2 set, even if modelled by an enthusiast,
isn't a no cost addition. Every new plane has
to have an FM created, have QA done on it, and
be rechecked every time the physics model is
patched. So this takes Oleg's staff's time.
I think this is what BoB will come with a small
plane set - a more tractable QA problem for
a new physics engine.

So I don't have a problem with indulging
Gibbage with the P80, but if lots of esoteric
planes got added, it would mean less ability
to fully QA the game, etc., and add other planes. If the inclusion of the P80 sells
more units than not including it, maybe Oleg
can hire some extra staff, though.

Aaron_GT
01-25-2004, 03:26 AM
The Vampire is even more post war than the
Meteor, although at least the equal of the
P80 in terms of performance.

The Meteor basically only took part in V1
defence, or ground attacks in Belgium, Holland,
etc.

I'd rather see a good range of Spitfires (and
Gibbage is working on some of those), the
Typhoon, Tempest, Mosquito, Beaufighter, and
some British bombers ahead of the Meteor.

Copperhead310th
01-25-2004, 03:30 AM
now the screen shot i relly wanna see is the 1 with a p-80 downing a Go-229! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/icon_twisted.gif

http://imageshack.us/files/copper%20sig%20with%20rank.jpg
310th FS & 380th BG website (http://www.members.tripod.com/tophatssquadron)

One13
01-25-2004, 03:57 AM
Vampires first flight 29/9/43.
First flight of production Mk.1 20/4/45.
First aircraft to 247Sqn RAF in March 1946.

-----------------------------
One plane we really need.....

http://uk.geocities.com/peter.squire3@btopenworld.com/vampire-sig.jpg

Get my skins at....
http://www.il2skins.com/?action=list&authoridfilter=one13&ts=1073140490&comefrom=cedits

269GA-Veltro
01-25-2004, 04:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ElAurens:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Veltro:
Somebody has said here that it was probably better, of course, than Me 262..................

This is the "problem"!!! How is the P 80 FM?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The performance of the P80 is well documented. It had a long and successful service with the USAF.
If anything it's FM will be far more realistic than the Gotha's, because of all the documetation on it, and , the sheer numbers of people that have actually flown one.

And I will repeat: If the P80 were a German aircraft, identical in every way to the US one, flown the same number of times in Europe, and with the same flight performance there would be _no complaints_ from you or anyone else about it.

What does that tell you?

_____________________________

http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/Curtiss_logo.gif

__BlitzPig_EL__<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you.

I've understood...now. For a lot of people here P 80, T 33 or YP80 is the same.......no my friend is quite different.

For you P 80 was better than Me 262, and, of course, in FB Me 262 will be only an easy target for P 80.......right?

Why Go 229........i don't care it. I'm waiting for Spitfire, Me 110, P 51, F4F, F6F, Macchi ecc. ecc..
Me 262, i repeat again, is quite differnt than the others jets......

269GA~Veltro
http://ourworld.cs.com/VeltroF/mc202tav4.jpg

269GA-Veltro
01-25-2004, 04:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ElAurens:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Veltro:
Somebody has said here that it was probably better, of course, than Me 262..................

This is the "problem"!!! How is the P 80 FM?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>And I will repeat: If the P80 were a German aircraft, identical in every way to the US one, flown the same number of times in Europe, and with the same flight performance there would be _no complaints_ from you or anyone else about it.

What does that tell you?

_____________________________

http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/Curtiss_logo.gif

__BlitzPig_EL__<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What does it tell me?

again.....waiting for F4F "Hellcat" and F4F "Wildcat".....do you know what i mean? they are americans..right?
There is NOTHING, NOTHING, and again NOTHING against you or your people!!!!!


269GA~Veltro
http://ourworld.cs.com/VeltroF/mc202tav4.jpg

NorrisMcWhirter
01-25-2004, 05:58 AM
"There is NOTHING, NOTHING, and again NOTHING against you or your people!!!!!"

Well said - this has nothing to do with anti-Americanism although any view in opposition to an American always appears to be thought of in this way.

On the subject of the P80 - it is quite simple; if you don't like it, don't fly it. However, it does grate a little to know that it has displaced less marketable a/c that actually played a significant role in the WW2 air war.

I will be buying the expansion but I will choose to fly only (as now) in 'no-jet' servers unless there are reasonably "balanced" 'jet only' servers.

Cheers,
Norris


================================================== ==========

: Chris Morris - Blue Jam : http://cabinessence.cream.org/

More irreverence:
http://www.tvgohome.com/

WUAF_Badsight
01-25-2004, 06:41 AM
the P-80 displaced no other A/C

there are A/C that are not comming to FB because no-one capable of 3D moddeling could be bothered to try

as far as ive read we are getting the P-80A

not the YP-80 , & it should be a better turn fighter than the 262 is capable of

Veltro . . . are you as vocal about other planes performing better than they should (which some do) as you are about the P-80 ?

which you havent even tried yet ?

i hope all P-80 complainers not only get a lump of coal next christmas like they deserve but also get shot down by it endlessly

if you ever find a server online that has it . . . .

Chuck_Older
01-25-2004, 06:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Veltro:

For you P 80 was better than Me 262, and, of course, in FB Me 262 will be only an easy target for P 80.......right?


269GA~Veltro
http://ourworld.cs.com/VeltroF/mc202tav4.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying that one of the reasons the P-80 is being included is because it's supposed to be the aircraft that will outclass the Me 262 in every way? I am trying to avoid misunderstanding you again. The way I read your post is that the P-80 will crush the Me 262, and that's why it is going to be released.

Well, if that is the case, in the off-line campaign I've yet to see an Me-262. I either get killed long before that or just never encounter one. I see no reason to assume that the P-80 will be anything other than a very rare aircraft if it somehow gets included in a campaign. So the issue again seems one of: if you don't like it, don't fly it. If you're fighting against it online, exploit it's weakness (every plane has at least one) and destroy it. Use better tactics or just plain be a better pilot than the P-80 drivers. Or join a server that doesn't fly P-80s.

*****************************
do I hear the echoes of the days of '39? ~Clash

MiloMorai
01-25-2004, 07:10 AM
YP-80 = P-80

The P-80A was much the same as the YP-80A which preceded it, differing only in minor details. The P-80A introduced under-fuselage dive brakes which opened forward at the wing join, and had a landing light installed behind a transparent fairing in the upper nose. The intake lip was moved slightly further aft, and the tailplane incidence was raised by 1.5 degrees.
http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p80_4.html



Long live the Horse Clans.

Chuck_Older
01-25-2004, 07:29 AM
XP-80 was built around a de Haviland H1-B turbojet and flew on Jan 8, 1944.

The XP-80 looked very similar to the P-80a, but the P-80a was larger and heavier. P-80 used a GE I-40 turbojet. XP-80 weighed 8916 lbs, P-80a was a hefty 13780 lbs.


The YP-80 was an aircraft that followed the XP-80As, which were a pair of service-type prototypes. The 13 planes called YP-80A were similar.

My reference gives no dates, but the P-80A seems to me to be the service line aircraft after V-J day, while the very similar YP-80A was a hair's breadth away from production but was delayed by V-J day. No where does my reference indicate the YP-80 was superior to the the P-80 in any way.

I am wondering: are we confusing the XP-80 and the YP-80 with some comments like, "The YP-80 and the P-80A were very different"?

*****************************
do I hear the echoes of the days of '39? ~Clash

Noomen
01-25-2004, 08:38 AM
"Go drop a few thousand dollars and model your own "proper" plane for FB instead of crying."
I agree, commends like this are a lot cheaper... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif I support tailortony, not for his opinion but for the fact that he HAS a opinion. Burning people can take place in the game, so we don't need this as a add-on in the forum. Btw. I would love to see the meteor... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

No Paseran!

VW-IceFire
01-25-2004, 08:42 AM
Everything that I've read and everything that Oleg has indicated is that the P-80 version present in the AEP will infact be a good match for the Me-262. Both are different but should be fairly evenly matched...as far as I know, the P-80 that we're getting will not outstrip the Me-262 in any way...it has some attributes that are better and others that aren't quite as good. It'll be a fun matchup.

- IceFire
http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/spit-sig.jpg

ElAurens
01-25-2004, 11:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Veltro:

again.....waiting for F4F "Hellcat" and F4F "Wildcat".....do you know what i mean? they are americans..right?
There is NOTHING, NOTHING, and again NOTHING against you or your people!!!!!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you Veltro, I appreciate your words. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I wish my Italian was a good as your English, many of our differences would not exist I think ...

I too want the F4F, and the Mc202/205 badly. I just don't see the P80 as a big problem.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

_____________________________

http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/Curtiss_logo.gif

BlitzPig_EL

Aeronautico
01-25-2004, 02:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ElAurens:
It is in the game because someone (Gibbage)took the time and effort to model it _for free_. Sheesh you would probably turn down a free BMW because it wasn't a Ferrari.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do you REALLY think he's not going to be paid for the P-80?!
Actually, you're right: he's been already paid.

Geeesh! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif


A.

Gibbage1
01-25-2004, 02:40 PM
You are correct. I was paid for the P-80. But when I started modeling the P-80 and Go-229, I had no idea that I would be paid for it. Oleg paid me, and quite a few other artist's because it was going into a paid add-on.

This paid add-on is a product of the comunity. The workmanship and pride of artist's, and the hard labor and skill of mission builders and skinners. Its what many modders dream of! Getting a little money for something they were goign to do for free anyways! And we all owe it too Oleg for deciding to put it into a paid add-on. Because to be honest, I doubt half the stuff would of been released for free simply because it cost's Oleg a lot of money to add these aircraft into the game. It cost's time for the programmer to program the AI handling, FM, DM, and other stuff. It cost's time for the 3D artist to tweak it and make sure it fits into the engine. It cost's time for testers to test the aircraft and make sure it works well. It cost's Oleg money for research and documents to make sure its accurate. And trust me, even in Russia, all this stuff is NOT cheap. So I doubt if Oleg would have spent all that time and money to release 20+ aircraft for free. Maybe a select 10 or so, but not all. Plus what revinue he gets from this add-on insures other aircraft being included for free later.

Its a win-win. The comunity gets more aircraft in an add-on pack along with a bunch of missions to keep the single player game alive. The modelers and other people in the comunity get a little money on the side. And later on, we get more free aircraft!

People piss and moan about "Whaaaa, I dont wanna pay for aircraft!" but think about it. In Fs-2004 or CFS2/3 you can pay 29.95 for a single aircraft or a handfull. Here, you get a hole slew of the most famous aircraft in WWII! P-51 C and B models, and the D with the K-14, P-38 J and L, Bf-110 (possible), B-25 B and J models, P-63, Spit Mk Vb and the IX later. Plus the P-80, Me-163, He-162, and Go-229 for the jet fans. And the Ta-152, and 109Z for the Luft46 fans. It even has the Iar-80 and 81 plus the Fiat G.50 for MTO missions!!!! Plus it has some AI aircraft to shoot up like the Fiat Cd.42 and Hawk 75. ITs got a little for everyone!

With this pack, you can make damn near any theater of the war. Zero, Ki-84, P-38, P-40 and PBY for Pacific. IAR-80, G.50 and P-38 for MTO. Almost anything! This pack will bring IL2 into a global battle, not just eastern front. I dont know why anyone would NOT wanna get this pack.

And it should tide us over till the next game is out.

I cant see how anyone can complain about that. If they do complain, then there is truly no way of making them happy.

[This message was edited by Gibbage1 on Sun January 25 2004 at 01:59 PM.]

tagert
01-25-2004, 02:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gibbage1:
You are correct. I was paid for the P-80. But when I started modeling the P-80 and Go-229, I had no idea that I would be paid for it. Oleg paid me, and quite a few other artist's because it was going into a paid add-on.

This paid add-on is a product of the comunity. The workmanship and pride of artist's, and the hard labor and skill of mission builders and skinners. Its what many modders dream of! Getting a little money for something they were goign to do for free anyways! And we all owe it too Oleg for deciding to put it into a paid add-on. Because to be honest, I doubt half the stuff would of been released for free simply because it cost's Oleg a lot of money to add these aircraft into the game. It cost's time for the programmer to program the AI handling, FM, DM, and other stuff. It cost's time for the 3D artist to tweak it and make sure it fits into the engine. It cost's time for testers to test the aircraft and make sure it works well. It cost's Oleg money for research and documents to make sure its accurate. And trust me, even in Russia, all this stuff is NOT cheap. So I doubt if Oleg would have spent all that time and money to release 20+ aircraft for free. Maybe a select 10 or so, but not all. Plus what revinue he gets from this add-on insures other aircraft being included for free later.

Its a win-win. The comunity gets more aircraft in an add-on pack along with a bunch of missions to keep the single player game alive. The modelers and other people in the comunity get a little money on the side. And later on, we get more free aircraft!

People piss and moan about "Whaaaa, I dont wanna pay for aircraft!" but think about it. In Fs-2004 or CFS2/3 you can pay 29.95 for a single aircraft or a handfull. Here, you get a hole slew of the most famous aircraft in WWII! P-51 C and B models, and the D with the K-14, P-38 J and L, Bf-110 (possible), B-24 B and J models, P-63, Spit Mk Vb and the IX later. Plus the P-80, Me-163, He-162, and Go-229 for the jet fans. And the Ta-152, and 109Z for the Luft46 fans. It even has the Iar-80 and 81 plus the Fiat G.50 for MTO missions!!!! Plus it has some AI aircraft to shoot up like the Fiat Cd.42 and Hawk 75. ITs got a little for everyone!

With this pack, you can make damn near any theater of the war. Zero, Ki-84, P-38, P-40 and PBY for Pacific. IAR-80, G.50 and P-38 for MTO. Almost anything! This pack will bring IL2 into a global battle, not just eastern front. I dont know why anyone would NOT wanna get this pack.

And it should tide us over till the next game is out.

I cant see how anyone can complain about that. If they do complain, then there is truly no way of making them happy.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Gibb thanks for everything you and the others did! One question... is that a type-o? You said B-24 B and J.. I thought we were getting B25s? Dont get me wrong! I would love a B24!!

TAGERT

Aeronautico
01-25-2004, 02:56 PM
By the way, I don't understand these P-80 complaints: I'd have liked more other more pertinent planes myself, but I'm glad I'll fly it nevertheless.

As for its performances, why doubt about Oleg choices? P-51, P-47 and even Me 262 (not high alt of course) are pretty correct apparently after all, aren't they?

And again, why doesn't anybody complain about the Gotha?

A.

[This message was edited by Aeronautico on Sun January 25 2004 at 02:14 PM.]

Gibbage1
01-25-2004, 02:59 PM
Ya. B-24 is a type-o. Its B-25. The Mitchel


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tagert:Gibb thanks for everything you and the others did! One question... is that a type-o? You said B-24 B and J.. I thought we were getting B25s? Dont get me wrong! I would love a B24!!

TAGERT<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

MosDef_99th
01-25-2004, 04:08 PM
To tell ya the truth, even though it takes a lot of effort for us to get these airplanes in an add on, I can understand what some of the people are questioning its inclusion are trying to say. i think everybody here greatly appreciates no doubt what Oleg has done to bring us this truly astonishing WWII flight sim. But some of us would like the content of the game to remain as close to reality as possible. Even though, of course, this is all fantasy to begin with, some people would rather stick to planes that actually fought in WW2, and while I'm no Full Difficulty Whiner/Biyatch like GoodKn1ght, I understand where they are comin from. I myself look at this as more of a propeller combat game, where of course there were a few exceptions, i'm not all that compelled to look forward to planes like Go-229's and such adding to the advantage of jets already flyin in the war.

And I gotta say, including a G0-229 or P-80 before at least ONE big blue USN plane like the F4U, definately irkes me a little. How can you really replicate a Pacific theatre without representing the U.S. Navy? As an American, including Hellcats and Corsairs would appeal to us more than P-80's.(as a rebuttal to the clown that suggested Shooting Stars were included to pander to us. SHEEZE!)

But in the end, of course, we KNOW we're all gonna buy the add-on, and there's nothing we can do about whats included, so I'll enjoy whatever comes(please tell me that includes a flyable B17). But I don't see anything wrong with us airing our opinions about it on a DISCUSSION forum.

And yes, Gibbage has done great work on the P80, as usual; it looks great. Thank you.

SkyChimp
01-25-2004, 04:55 PM
The YP-80A was a Service Test pre-production model.

The P-80A was the first production model. First deliveries of the P-80A was in February 1945.

Here is an interesting photo of the Lockheed facotry turning out P-80As and P-38Ls side-by-side in early 1945.
http://members.cox.net/rowlandparks/p80as.jpg

Regards,
SkyChimp
http://members.cox.net/rowlandparks/skychimp.jpg

Aeronautico
01-25-2004, 05:11 PM
Infact the pre-fix "Y" always designates the pre-production models (while the "X" refers to prototypes).

A.

tagert
01-25-2004, 10:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Everything that I've read and everything that Oleg has indicated is that the P-80 version present in the AEP will infact be a good match for the Me-262. Both are different but should be fairly evenly matched...as far as I know, the P-80 that we're getting will not outstrip the Me-262 in any way...it has some attributes that are better and others that aren't quite as good. It'll be a fun matchup.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Agreed 100%! The Me262 is a better bomber hunter with them big guns, and has many more cool paint jobs to choose from... As for the rest P80 is better http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

TAGERT

pinche_bolillo
01-26-2004, 01:53 AM
I think that the P-80 and the F8F as well used the browning M-3 not the M-2. the M-3 had a rate of fire 50% higher than the M-2 and fired the same .50 cal ammo. I'm sure the M-3 fired 1,200 rds a min.

269GA-Veltro
01-26-2004, 02:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ElAurens:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Veltro:

again.....waiting for F4F "Hellcat" and F4F "Wildcat".....do you know what i mean? they are americans..right?
There is NOTHING, NOTHING, and again NOTHING against you or your people!!!!!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you Veltro, I appreciate your words. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I wish my Italian was a good as your English, many of our differences would not exist I think ...

I too want the F4F, and the Mc202/205 _badly_. I just don't see the P80 as a big problem.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

_____________________________

http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/Curtiss_logo.gif

__BlitzPig_EL__<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes you are right http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

P 80 is not a problem..but stop please with this "fantasy" planes (the same for Go 229).
As you know, A6M2 vs F4F or A6M5 vs F6F or Corsair, for my opinion, would be fantastic!!!
Do you remember "Baa baa black sheep"..Gregory Boyington..Corsair ecc. ecc.. It would be fantastic only as a dogfight-room..now.

Best regards!
Ciao! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

269GA~Veltro
http://ourworld.cs.com/VeltroF/mc202tav4.jpg

MiloMorai
01-26-2004, 07:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by pinche_bolillo:
I think that the P-80 and the F8F as well used the browning M-3 not the M-2. the M-3 had a rate of fire 50% higher than the M-2 and fired the same .50 cal ammo. I'm sure the M-3 fired 1,200 rds a min.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, the M3 production started around the same time the P-80 production did. Guess which 50 cal will be in the P-80.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif



Long live the Horse Clans.

Gibbage1
01-26-2004, 11:31 AM
Milo. If you can find out what P-80 had the M3's, that would be helpful. From my understanding, the P-80B and later had them, not the YP-80a that is in the game. If you can find referance to the YP-80a's or P-80a's loadout with the M3, I can have Oleg ajust it.

pinche_bolillo
01-26-2004, 12:39 PM
aw man, not the yp-80 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif didnt that only have 5 not 6 m2 50s? sigh

MiloMorai
01-26-2004, 01:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gibbage1:
Milo. If you can find out what P-80 had the M3's, that would be helpful. From my understanding, the P-80B and later had them, not the YP-80a that is in the game. If you can find referance to the YP-80a's or P-80a's loadout with the M3, I can have Oleg ajust it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Naw don't worry about it Gib, it will only give the Luft boys something else to cry about.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif



Long live the Horse Clans.

tagert
01-26-2004, 02:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MiloMorai:
Naw don't worry about it Gib, it will only give the Luft boys something else to cry about.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>WHAT? MILO CAVING TO Luft Whinner pressure? I never thought I would see the day! Ok.. who had the bet that hell would frezze over today? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

TAGERT

MiloMorai
01-26-2004, 02:28 PM
Nope, no caving in, just don't want all those tears to freeze.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif



Long live the Horse Clans.

tagert
01-26-2004, 02:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MiloMorai:
Nope, no caving in, just don't want all those tears to freeze.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Ah come on Milo! Help a bother out! Give Gibb the reference!! What good is all that knowlege of yours if it does not get used!! You know, for as much as you and Gibb go back and forth on things.. Ill bet if you two met in RL you would hit it off! In that you both have alot in common!! You both love flight sims enough to know way too much about the details! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Come on... I feel a hug in the room!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

TAGERT

JG27_Dacripler
01-26-2004, 03:24 PM
It's nice to have a disk full of airplanes and to decide what you want. If you want to enable any airplanes in your server it is entirely up to you.. Am I wrong?

H.Keller
01-26-2004, 04:15 PM
Since the P-80 is being added I would like this plane please. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

http://www.freepgs.com/keller/images/mig29.gif

necrobaron
01-26-2004, 04:30 PM
Is that a genuine German MiG? I thought the swastika was illegal there.

Platypus_1.JaVA
01-26-2004, 04:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by necrobaron:
Is that a genuine German MiG? I thought the swastika was illegal there.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Probably added with photoshop...

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge,
ye shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be measured
to you again.

http://acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/index.php

tagert
01-26-2004, 06:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by H.Keller:
Since the P-80 is being added I would like this plane please.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Sorry.. but you only get one Luft46.. And the Go229 is it!

TAGERT

H.Keller
01-26-2004, 06:06 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

I'm just kidding with you guys!

PS. I just love Photoshop. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Thrawn888
01-26-2004, 06:20 PM
there are 2 main reason i personally would like the p80:

1. because i personally find it the best jet dogfighter of all the jets present unless the vampire was added (my opinion)

2. i dont know about the p80 we are getting but from the korean war i guess they were good ground pounders and doing that can be fun in a fast plane so u can bomb and get away without much trouble but thats just my preference

WUAF_Badsight
01-26-2004, 08:57 PM
`
YES DACRIPLER ........

...... YOU IS WRONG .........



:P

Bearcat99
01-26-2004, 09:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Indianer.:
Never a truer word said.....this is how the game is going, I remember when the origional game first came out, all the Americans were still playing CFS1. I had so many discussions about how IL2 was a better game but the response i got went along the lines of "there aint no American planes in it". So they kept with CFS, now look.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think the sim is going great. I was one of those CFS guys who didnt fly IL2..... partly because I wasnt familiar with the planes but mostly because my PII233MHZ system couldnt run it. Once I upgrade for CFS3....http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif.... I got IL2 and havent looked back. I had squadmates who actually publicly blasted me...here in these forums even.... and on other venues because I DARED to have Redtail skins on "Russin" planes. LMAO!!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
I see nothing wrong with the addition of whatever we can get. I hear the PTO is coming..... dont know when but it is coming....so a Corsair and hopefully a Cat or two and maybe a George & a Tony cant be too far behind. If they put a Shinden in too I wouldnt blink an eye...just enjoy it. The beauty of this sim is, unlike other sims I have flown you the host are in almost full control as far as difficulty settings, planesets etc. It is a skill oriented online experience and if you dont have the skill you can set it so those on your level can join you and have a ball..if you have the skills...then there is room for that too.

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>http://www.jodavidsmeyer.com/combat/bookstore/tuskegeebondposter.jpg (http://tuskegeeairmen.org/airmen/who.html)[/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>vflyer@comcast.net [/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>99thPursuit Squadron IL2 Forgotten Battles (http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat)[/list]
UDQMG (http://www.uberdemon.com/index2.html) | HYPERLOBBY (http://hyperfighter.jinak.cz/) | IL2 Manager (http://www.checksix-fr.com/bibliotheque/detail_fichier.php?ID=1353) | MUDMOVERS (http://www.mudmovers.com/)

Jirozaemon
01-28-2004, 01:29 PM
@ Keller:

(See pic at page five). This is a Mig 29 Fulcrum A of Jagdgeschwader 73 "Steinhoff" situated in Rostock/Laage. These planes are given to Poland one by one and the "Eurofighter" will replace them in the course of this year. The Swastika is faked, that`s for sure...

By the way: I don´t think this is a good joke... A soldier would loose his job and rank for that (not to mention the time behind bars).

Regards

Jiro

[This message was edited by Jirozaemon on Wed January 28 2004 at 12:43 PM.]

Cardinal25
01-28-2004, 02:43 PM
The 262 will not have a chance vs. the P-80. The 162 might though.

There should be some really good Jets only servers on HL in Feb.

As far as people *****ing about planes being included in the add-on: I don't understand your whining. If enough people wanted the plane you crying about than Gibb would have done that instead. We encouraged Gibb to do the P-80 and we're going to get it. End of story.

Thanks Gibb.

-----------------------------
Asshat = Don't do it. (http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/index.php)

Cardinal25
01-28-2004, 02:43 PM
whine

-----------------------------
Asshat = Don't do it. (http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/index.php)

Cardinal25
01-28-2004, 02:43 PM
*****ing

-----------------------------
Asshat = Don't do it. (http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/index.php)

Cardinal25
01-28-2004, 02:43 PM
ah. Just checking, carry on.

-----------------------------
Asshat = Don't do it. (http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/index.php)

FW190fan
01-28-2004, 04:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cardinal25:
The 262 will not have a chance vs. the P-80.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sure, go on believing it until the time comes (and it will) when the P-80 isn't quite so dominant after all.

http://people.aero.und.edu/~choma/lrg0645.jpg

SkyChimp
01-28-2004, 06:45 PM
Well, Fw, if Oleg models the plane properly, it will have no disadvantages to the Me-262.

But then again, what Oleg does to it remains to be seen.

Regards,
SkyChimp
http://members.cox.net/rowlandparks/skychimp.jpg

ElAurens
01-28-2004, 08:46 PM
FW...You seem to be implying tht the Me262 will dominate the P80.

P80's were able to shoot down Mig15s. The 262 would not last a minute agianst a Mig15...

_____________________________

http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/Curtiss_logo.gif

BlitzPig_EL

FW190fan
01-28-2004, 09:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ElAurens:
FW...You seem to be implying tht the Me262 will dominate the P80.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Really?

Where did I imply that the Me-262 will dominate the P-80?

http://people.aero.und.edu/~choma/lrg0645.jpg

Gibbage1
01-28-2004, 09:24 PM
To be honest, any Mig15 that gets shot down by a P-80 was a Mig pilot sleeping, or just dumb. Eather way, it proves Merphy's law runs well in wartime.

As for the P-80, the Me-262 wont be a big threat unless you take it head on. But the He-162 is a hole new story.

Gib

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ElAurens:
FW...You seem to be implying tht the Me262 will dominate the P80.

P80's were able to shoot down Mig15s. The 262 would not last a minute agianst a Mig15...

_____________________________

http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/Curtiss_logo.gif

__BlitzPig_EL__<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

WUAF_Badsight
01-28-2004, 09:28 PM
ok ok enuf of the P-80 BS

the P-80 was SEVERLY outclassed by the Mig-15

that it shot down the Mig-15 in the first jet v jet is Conjecture ... NOT PROVEN

the russians say it landed but we only ever hear about the American hype

what is for sure is that the P-80 shot at the Mig-15 in that engagement , then again the russians counter claimed that the P-80 was damadged also in that fight

& both side did lie in that war & had good reason to lie about losses & victories

but comparing the 2 is like comparing the Hurricane in FB to the Bf-109 G series in FB

the Mig-15 could just pull away from the P-80

FW190fan
01-28-2004, 09:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gibbage1:

As for the P-80, the Me-262 wont be a big threat unless you take it head on. But the He-162 is a hole new story.

Gib

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I keep reading this alot about how the Me262 will be no threat to the P-80.

I just don't see it.

In fact, I'm sure that when two competent pilots show up in each of these fighters, the winner will be the one who knows his plane better.

By reading the boards, most of the American plane fans seem to be a pretty disillusioned bunch. Maybe the P-80 will give them what they are looking for.

[This message was edited by FW190fan on Wed January 28 2004 at 09:05 PM.]

tagert
01-28-2004, 10:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
ok ok enuf of the P-80 BS

the P-80 was SEVERLY outclassed by the Mig-15

that it shot down the Mig-15 in the first jet v jet is Conjecture ... NOT PROVEN

the russians say it landed but we only ever hear about the American hype

what is for sure is that the P-80 shot at the Mig-15 in that engagement , then again the russians counter claimed that the P-80 was damadged also in that fight

& both side did lie in that war & had good reason to lie about losses & victories

but comparing the 2 is like comparing the Hurricane in FB to the Bf-109 G series in FB

the Mig-15 could just pull away from the P-80<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Ok... what about the NAVY's F4u PROP that shot down a MiG? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

TAGERT

FW190fan
01-28-2004, 10:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tagert:
Ok... what about the NAVY's F4u PROP that shot down a MiG? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

TAGERT<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The only possible explanation for this could be that the F4u was obviously superior to the Mig. To suggest otherwise would be uncivilized, or worse yet - un American. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

Crap, with all of these Shooting Stars and Corsairs sweeping the Migs from the Korean skies, what did we need the F-86 for, other than that chicks digged it?

http://people.aero.und.edu/~choma/lrg0645.jpg

MachineII
01-28-2004, 10:18 PM
Actually...the M1 Garand was superior to the Mig-15 also. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://users.adelphia.net/~machineii/images/sig7.jpg

FW190fan
01-28-2004, 10:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MachineII:
Actually...the M1 Garand was superior to the Mig-15 also. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Without being too graphic, my grandfather successfully deployed the M1 on Leyte, Mindinoa, Mindora...etc., etc.

http://people.aero.und.edu/~choma/lrg0645.jpg

tagert
01-28-2004, 10:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FW190fan:
The only possible explanation for this could be that the F4u was obviously superior to the Mig. To suggest otherwise would be uncivilized, or worse yet - un American. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Agreed 100%!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FW190fan:
Crap, with all of these Shooting Stars and Corsairs sweeping the Migs from the Korean skies, what did we need the F-86 for, other than that chicks digged it?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Dont underestimate the power of chicks!!

TAGERT

RicknZ
01-28-2004, 10:49 PM
Why stop at the p-80?

Why not add planes from the likes of crimson skies?
THey had just as much chance as fighting in world war 2 as the p80 did.

RicknZ
01-28-2004, 10:55 PM
Having said that though just because some of us like historicalness (that a word lol) doesnt give us the right to limit the game in anyway.

More the merrier i guess. Bring on the Douglas Raven fighter-bomber.

WUAF_Badsight
01-29-2004, 01:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tagert:
Ok... what about the NAVY's F4u PROP that shot down a MiG? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

TAGERT<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

yea ? what about it ?
you know the answer as well as i

saying (or hinting at) either was superior in performance to the MiG-15 is a joke so plz ... stop it

Aaron_GT
01-29-2004, 08:22 AM
Don't knock Crimson Skies - the designs
look fun. What would be nice is a program
that allowed you to design far out planes
and fly them. To a certain extent X-Plane
allows you to do this, but it isn't easy
to use the interface. A point-and-click
interface on top for wacky plane creation
would be a lot of fun (if the FMs were
also accurately modelled).

Aaron_GT
01-29-2004, 08:23 AM
By don't knock Crimson Skies I meant
don't knock the fun element of the
designs. Obviously the actual game is
totally arcade, although I remember
the board game too.

ElAurens
01-29-2004, 10:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FW190fan:
Where did I imply that the Me-262 will dominate the P-80?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd say in just about all your posts on the subject. And I'm not saying that the P80 was the equal of a Mig 15 either...just that under certain conditions (low altitude) it could be effective agianst it, if for a short time.

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tagert
01-29-2004, 10:11 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
yea ? what about it ?
you know the answer as well as i<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Do you know? Funny, Why did I think you would go with the NOT CONFIRMED thing here and use the BOTH SIDES LIED excuse.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
saying (or hinting at) either was superior in performance to the MiG-15 is a joke so plz ... stop it<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>LOL!

TAGERT