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View Full Version : What is the green thing in front of the Sights of ta152?



Ankanor
02-20-2004, 04:07 PM
What in the name of the lord is that green object? See the dev update if you do not believe me, I am not an expert in Ta1522, but IIRC there is nothing there to stand in the way. What is it? Suggestions appreciated.

P.S. I still will fly the Ta152 when it comes out.

http://server4.uploadit.org/files2/101203-delphinche.jpg
Some things are worth fighting for.

Ankanor
02-20-2004, 04:07 PM
What in the name of the lord is that green object? See the dev update if you do not believe me, I am not an expert in Ta1522, but IIRC there is nothing there to stand in the way. What is it? Suggestions appreciated.

P.S. I still will fly the Ta152 when it comes out.

http://server4.uploadit.org/files2/101203-delphinche.jpg
Some things are worth fighting for.

LuftLuver
02-20-2004, 04:10 PM
That is next 190 whiney topic! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Actually is cowling hump for guns.

Ankanor
02-20-2004, 04:11 PM
no guns there on the Ta152H-1. They are in the wings.

http://server4.uploadit.org/files2/101203-delphinche.jpg
Some things are worth fighting for.

ZG77_Nagual
02-20-2004, 04:13 PM
that would be the top of the engine cowl.

SeaFireLIV
02-20-2004, 04:13 PM
You are gonna have to remove that girl from your sig, Ankanor, I`m falling in love with her! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/wrestlearm.jpg
The Fights continue out of the Servers...

robban75
02-20-2004, 04:13 PM
If you mean that green thing at the bottom of the sight, I believe that's the cowling.

http://members.chello.se/unni/D-9.JPG

When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

LuftLuver
02-20-2004, 04:40 PM
Thanks for correct, I mean cowling for motor, NOT guns.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

Chuck_Older
02-20-2004, 04:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ankanor:
no guns there on the Ta152H-1. They are in the wings.

.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

True. And since the intake is on the starboard side, it's not a Ta 152C, which did have cowl cannons.

There are two possibilities that come to mind.

One is not the engine cowl itself, but cowl flaps for the annular radiator.

Another is battle damage.

I am looking at a general arrangement drawing of the Ta 152H-0 right now. On top of the decking in front of the canopy are two interesting things:

1) a pair of long bulges, very close to the front of the windscreen, in about the center of each piece of side glass.

2) some type of small "thing" or other, at about the same distance from the canopy as the air intake, on the right hand side of the fuselage top, directly in line with the view out of the cockpit. This would place the "thing" directly in line with the gunsight, since the sight is off-set to the right. The drawing is not incredibly detailed, being just an arrangement view, but this also means to me that the small "thing" there was not an insignificant detail, but something worth showing on the arrangement view.

~Edit


[Complete book of Fighters, bottom of page 218. ISBN 0 84065 269 1]

*****************************
from the Hundred Years war to the Crimea, from the lance and the musket and the Roman spear, to all of the men who have stood with no fear, in the service of the King~ Clash

[This message was edited by Chuck_Older on Fri February 20 2004 at 04:04 PM.]

JG7_Rall
02-20-2004, 05:09 PM
Did the bar grow!?

http://home.comcast.net/~nate.r/sig.jpg

IVJG51Swein
02-20-2004, 05:13 PM
There was a 30mm in the nose and 2X20mm in the wings...There should be nothing obstructing the view but as ususal there is. This is turning into a joke.

pourshot
02-20-2004, 05:14 PM
The model we are getting is the H1? if so I cant imagine what that green thing could be.

looks like you luft boys are foiled again http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~andycarroll68/mybaby.jpeg.JPG
Ride It Like Ya Stole It

ZG77_Nagual
02-20-2004, 05:16 PM
Guys - the peak of the cowl was visible on alot of planes - particularly ones with so much nose out front And none of those shots are gunsight view.

Da girl in da sig is MESSIN' WID ME

Chuck_Older
02-20-2004, 05:26 PM
IVJG51, Pourshot-


before you pass judgement on what's right or wrong with that bulge, could you do the slightest little bit of investigation?

I actually got off my butt and looked it up. I also gave a reference. If you're just gonna guess as to what you suppose is right or wrong without any evidence, then (DRUM ROLL PLEASE)

Let the TankWhining Begin!!!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif And it IS just whining if you don't investigate

Because it's one thing to say, "hey Chuck, you're full of it, I looked that up too, in the ref you cited, and this, that, and the other thing is why it can't be any of the reasons you listed", and quite another to say "nothing's there, we're screwed". Because, there IS something there! Cowl flaps (check out some pics of a D-9 to see just how high up on the nose those flaps go. Higher than you think) and some as yet undefined structure IS there. Right there in line with the gunsight on the Ta 152 H-0, which is a pre-production prototype of the H-1. I don't know WHAT it is, but the draftsman who made the drawing did not put it there just to support my wild claim that something might be in the way of the gunsight.

Could you guys even LOOK to see if you can find any evidence to clear this up before you pronounce Doom or Bias?

*****************************
from the Hundred Years war to the Crimea, from the lance and the musket and the Roman spear, to all of the men who have stood with no fear, in the service of the King~ Clash

pourshot
02-20-2004, 05:33 PM
No problem chuck I did infact have a look at some scale modeling sights ( always a good sorce for external details)before my first post and the H1 has a nice smooth cowl so I cant see what it could be apart from the cooling gills but if thats it then it should have two bumps not one.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~andycarroll68/mybaby.jpeg.JPG
Ride It Like Ya Stole It

Chuck_Older
02-20-2004, 05:35 PM
Can I look too? Links? A URL?

*****************************
from the Hundred Years war to the Crimea, from the lance and the musket and the Roman spear, to all of the men who have stood with no fear, in the service of the King~ Clash

pourshot
02-20-2004, 05:58 PM
I just googled for them chuck no one site has a perfect view but you get a good idea after you visit a few.

I looking in my books right now but I dont have good referances for the TA has anyone got some nice clear pics they could post?

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~andycarroll68/mybaby.jpeg.JPG
Ride It Like Ya Stole It

Zyzbot
02-20-2004, 06:08 PM
http://www.rendersworld.com/Reference/ta152/ta152a.jpg

http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/AWA1/201-300/walk239_FW-Ta-152/images_Robert_N_Abbott_Jr/Focke_Wulf%20_Ta-152H_JG-301_2.JPG


http://204.50.25.179/features00/images/images_7/ta152hgi_11.jpg

necrobaron
02-20-2004, 06:10 PM
Here's some pics of a 152 in storage. Personally,I don't see that it'd be unusual to see the cowling from the pit.

http://pub157.ezboard.com/fluftwaffeexperten71774frm69.showMessage?topicID=9 .topic

"Not all who wander are lost."

Zyzbot
02-20-2004, 06:10 PM
http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/AWA1/201-300/walk239_FW-Ta-152/images_Robert_N_Abbott_Jr/Focke_Wulf%20_Ta-152H_JG-301_2.JPG

Zyzbot
02-20-2004, 06:11 PM
http://www.rendersworld.com/Reference/ta152/ta152a.jpg

IVJG51Swein
02-20-2004, 06:23 PM
Hey Chuck-Older

http://www.jg51.net/forums/viewthread.php?tid=1009

I have actually sat in one of these(FW 190) and posted a huge thread along with Cirx in the past. You should be the one that holds off on passing judgment bud. The TA 152 was supposed to have a much better view than the 190(they had a better forward view than the Spitfire in real life). There is tons of info out there which proves it.

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
02-20-2004, 06:25 PM
Omg your wrong Its the GROUND!!! Pull up ffs till you see a blue thing http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

pourshot
02-20-2004, 06:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by necrobaron:
Personally,I don't see that it'd be unusual to see the cowling from the pit.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nor do I but if it's the cowling why is it only in front of the site?

Should it not be more towards the center if it was cowling?

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~andycarroll68/mybaby.jpeg.JPG
Ride It Like Ya Stole It

IVJG51Swein
02-20-2004, 06:37 PM
This is the other point and I will stop. This has already been debated to the limit.

The 190s including the TA 152 had a NOSE DOWN attitude in flight. This meant that when you looked straight throught the site your view was parallel with the ground. At the same time since the nose was facing down you would not see this part of the aircraft sticking out in front of you.

Its a no win situation though. Oleg has stated that he will not change it.
~S~

MandMs
02-20-2004, 07:04 PM
I would say it is the nose ring for the radiator. Only problem is it should be in the centre of the windscreen.

The Fw has a simular problem with the mg bulges not be correctly postioned when in the gunsight view. (will have to double check that though)

But as Swein says.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif To bad the Tank fighters got crapped on.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif



I eat the red ones last.

necrobaron
02-20-2004, 07:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by pourshot:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by necrobaron:
Personally,I don't see that it'd be unusual to see the cowling from the pit.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nor do I but if it's the cowling why is it only in front of the site?

Should it not be more towards the center if it was cowling?

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~andycarroll68/mybaby.jpeg.JPG
Ride It Like Ya Stole It<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well,I don't really know. I don't claim any special knowledge of the view from the pit. For all I know this argument is correct. I don't see why you wouldn't see the cowling just because it was angled downward. I'm just basing my opinion on amatuer observation,though.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

"Not all who wander are lost."

pourshot
02-20-2004, 07:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by necrobaron:
Well,I don't really know. I don't claim any special knowledge of the view from the pit.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I cant make that claim either,and I hope it did not sound like I was talking down to you.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~andycarroll68/mybaby.jpeg.JPG
Ride It Like Ya Stole It

Fehler
02-20-2004, 07:34 PM
If the FM is right, it will still be deadly..

Oh, By The Way... Here is a quote:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Witten on top of the page you looked at to see the screen shot:
"Please note that all of the screenshots are Work In Progress and may not represent the finished product."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cant we wait until it is released before we start b!tch!ng???
http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/FehlerSig.gif
http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/9JG54.html

IVJG51Swein
02-20-2004, 07:43 PM
Maybe if you bring it to someone's attention before the final product is completed they just might make an adjustment. Thats an idea. I doubt it but you never know. You should quit *****ing about our *****ing before we should officially start *****ing - lol.......

pourshot
02-20-2004, 07:45 PM
better to ***** now and have a nice clear gunsite when the addon comes than wait for oleg to say it's to late to fix now it's in.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~andycarroll68/mybaby.jpeg.JPG
Ride It Like Ya Stole It

ZG77_Nagual
02-20-2004, 08:13 PM
&lt;ahem.. William Shatner Voice - horrified nearly psychotic terror in eyes&gt; 'There's something-on-the-cowl...&lt;horrified disdain&gt; Some THING ON THE COWL!!! &lt;tries, with futile hysteria to claw through the bullet-proof glass until fingers bleed&gt;

http://www.scifi.com/twilightzone/gallery/img/twenty.jpg

[This message was edited by ZG77_Nagual on Fri February 20 2004 at 08:07 PM.]

[This message was edited by ZG77_Nagual on Fri February 20 2004 at 08:08 PM.]

tenmmike
02-20-2004, 08:21 PM
disregard started different thread

http://images.ar15.com/forums/smiles/anim_50cal.gif U.S INFANTRY 1984-1991

[This message was edited by tenmmike on Fri February 20 2004 at 08:16 PM.]

Chuck_Older
02-20-2004, 08:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by IVJG51Swein:
Hey Chuck-Older


I have actually sat in one of these(FW 190) and posted a huge thread along with Cirx in the past. You should be the one that holds off on passing judgment bud. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Absolutely NOT.

When you post on a thread of this nature, and you hold back info like you just gave, who's fault is it? Mine? It's MY fault you had some info that you could have posted and you didn't? Or do you expect me to research everything YOU'VE done or posted just to make sure your general comments have weight? If you read what I posted, why didn't you say, "hey man, look at this". Didn't care to? Couldn't be bothered to converse with me? Or is it my fault that you didn't read my post?

No. It's not. If you want to get all bent out of shape, have at it, but don't ask me to be responsible for your not contributing. You may have produced hours of effective research in all other threads, but like the old joke goes, nobody ever notices the good stuff, they only notice the one time you don't do something.

The way you just told me off is rubbish. Absolute garbage. If you knew so much, why couldn't you have posted a couple sentences to the fact? And since you obviously DID know something, why'd you hold back writing a very breif paragraph about it? Instead of sharing, you held back. And now you're surprised at my reply? Here's my shoes, go put 'em on and now read your post and tell me how it reads. Either you didn't read it, or we posted at the same time- in which case you could have mentioned it and then gave me the info, or, you read it, and dismissed it. I really don't see a fourth option.

I can accept all this about nothing being in the way of the gunsight. But when I offer up several question marks and they are ignored ROUNDLY, how am I supposed to react? I'm supposed to say, "somebody disagreed and didn't offer any word of proof other than 'this is how it is', so they are right and I'm wrong"? Hardly. I'm sure you wouldn't accept that, either.

Since now we're arguing, I hope you can accept that honestly I think it's great that you've had the opportunity to actually get so close to this type of airplane that you could sit in it.

But as far as our disagreement about 'who should, you should', I just can't offer you an apology on anything. Just can't. You kept quiet and just acted like any other person who was complaining. If you had some relevant information and you honestly thought somebody like me who tries to look into these things could benefit from it, you should have posted it. If you read my post you saw that I wasn't just regurgitating an opinion, but that I had made an effort to quantify my thoughts. If you had mentioned anything other than "this is a joke", then I could have learned something and said "thanks". Instead I can't offer you anything much. I just can't feel that's my fault. And in any case, I assume you are aware of the structure I mentioned. Since you must have known it was too far down on the fuselage to matter, you could have mentioned that too. I can only assume since I used a non technical term like "thing", if you read my post at all, you dismissed me as less than knowledgable. Well, you might be right. I never finsished my aeronautical degree, so I'm probably pretty dumb in some ways. But if that was your reasoning, I still can't be responsible for your ignoring my attempts at research or my post. Nope, I just can't feel bad you kept all that to yourself and that now you feel slighted by me. I'm going to have to live with the fact that I over reacted a little, and you're going to have to live with the fact that you could easily have enlightened me but you didn't, for whatever reason, and now you don't like my reaction.

I hope I've made my reasoning and standpoint on this clear. I'm hardly a finger-pointing little kid on the internet. I do not hold grudges, and what is posted on an online message board can not hurt me. But just like in real life, I am going to stick up for myself and refuse to be ignored or shouted down. Since you seem a reasonable and intelligent man, I think you can understand that. This is about all I can offer, except to say that this exchange with you will not effect my future relations with you on this forum or any other.

*****************************
from the Hundred Years war to the Crimea, from the lance and the musket and the Roman spear, to all of the men who have stood with no fear, in the service of the King~ Clash

[This message was edited by Chuck_Older on Fri February 20 2004 at 08:06 PM.]

Chuck_Older
02-20-2004, 08:58 PM
Mike, could you resize that pic, please?

*****************************
from the Hundred Years war to the Crimea, from the lance and the musket and the Roman spear, to all of the men who have stood with no fear, in the service of the King~ Clash

tenmmike
02-20-2004, 09:13 PM
chuck i would if i could but alas im not that gifted . http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

http://images.ar15.com/forums/smiles/anim_50cal.gif U.S INFANTRY 1984-1991

Chuck_Older
02-20-2004, 09:20 PM
Thanks

I was trying to proof read that billion word post of mine and I was going cross-eyed http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

*****************************
from the Hundred Years war to the Crimea, from the lance and the musket and the Roman spear, to all of the men who have stood with no fear, in the service of the King~ Clash

Zen--
02-20-2004, 10:34 PM
That little green thing in the sight?
(Yawns)



It's just a Yak, settle down everybody.


(Methinks you'll see them there much more often in the TA152 than in a Dora)

-Zen-
Formerly TX-Zen

pourshot
02-20-2004, 10:44 PM
Here you go mike a smaller version for when you need it.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~andycarroll68/D_9.jpg

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~andycarroll68/mybaby.jpeg.JPG
Ride It Like Ya Stole It

necrobaron
02-20-2004, 10:56 PM
Well,look at the bright side. Even if you can't see out,at least you won't have to contend with blinding muzzle flash! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

"Not all who wander are lost."

MandMs
02-20-2004, 11:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by necrobaron:
Well,look at the bright side. Even if you can't see out,at least you won't have to contend with blinding muzzle flash! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No not from the cowl guns but there is still the engine cannon and its flash.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif



I eat the red ones last.

necrobaron
02-20-2004, 11:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MandMs:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by necrobaron:
Well,look at the bright side. Even if you can't see out,at least you won't have to contend with blinding muzzle flash! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No not from the cowl guns but there is still the engine cannon and its flash.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif



I eat the red ones last.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The glass is always half empty to you,isn't it? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

"Not all who wander are lost."

IVJG51Swein
02-21-2004, 12:11 AM
Hey Chuck_Older..GET A LIFE!

horseback
02-21-2004, 01:40 AM
I went back to page 1 of this thread and looked at all the pictures. Maybe it's supposed to be that little intake thingy on the right top (2 o'clock from the pilot's point of view) just ahead of and above the supercharger intake? Or maybe the 'schwarzmann' just dropped a lime Lifesaver on the cowl.

Cheers

horseback

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944

MandMs
02-21-2004, 03:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by necrobaron:

The glass is always half empty to you,isn't it? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Or half full.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Fb I really like, but the flashes are sooo arcade.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif And we are stuck with them,http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif



I eat the red ones last.

p1ngu666
02-21-2004, 07:17 AM
lookin at the pics, i cant tell what its surposed tobe http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg

Chuck_Older
02-21-2004, 07:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by IVJG51Swein:
Hey Chuck_Older..GET A LIFE!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Nice childish response. You have nothing to be sore about. If you want to continue this with me, do it in a private topic.

*****************************
from the Hundred Years war to the Crimea, from the lance and the musket and the Roman spear, to all of the men who have stood with no fear, in the service of the King~ Clash

p1ngu666
02-21-2004, 07:42 AM
.... &lt;?&gt;and give it to me?
jokin http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~menard/ta152/

cropped images, personaly i think we are lookin at a coolin flap, or fudged up cowl

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg

Chuck_Older
02-21-2004, 07:48 AM
Since there is the distinct possibilty that it might be there 'for no reason' I was checking out other restricted gunsights last night, in FB.

How come nobody has mentioned the I-16's gunsight as being 'bad'? It's about 1/5 obscured by the engine cowling. I had no trouble using it though.

But it does seem odd that something is in the way of the Ta 152 H-1's gunsight (I assume it's a Ta 152 H-1 because of the lack of cowl cannon and the location of the air intake)I wonder if the pic was a composite, that had a Fw 190's gunsight image pasted on it? Sort of a 'work print' type of thing? Hard to tell. But it does seem likely nothing should be in the way.

*****************************
from the Hundred Years war to the Crimea, from the lance and the musket and the Roman spear, to all of the men who have stood with no fear, in the service of the King~ Clash

blabla0001
02-21-2004, 08:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
Since there is the distinct possibilty that it might be there 'for no reason' I was checking out other restricted gunsights last night, in FB.

How come nobody has mentioned the I-16's gunsight as being 'bad'? It's about 1/5 obscured by the engine cowling. I had no trouble using it though.

But it does seem odd that something is in the way of the Ta 152 H-1's gunsight (I assume it's a Ta 152 H-1 because of the lack of cowl cannon and the location of the air intake)I wonder if the pic was a composite, that had a Fw 190's gunsight image pasted on it? Sort of a 'work print' type of thing? Hard to tell. But it does seem likely nothing should be in the way.

*****************************
from the Hundred Years war to the Crimea, from the lance and the musket and the Roman spear, to all of the men who have stood with no fear, in the service of the King~ Clash<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am surprised nobody ever said anything about the gunsight of a I-153.

If I was a I-153 pilot during WWII the first thing I would do is get a hammer and flatten that stupid metal gunsight that is completely blocking your vision.

LEADSPITTER.
02-21-2004, 09:11 AM
Hay Ank

http://server4.uploadit.org/files2/101203-delphinche.jpg

I'm gonna **** this

Ankanor
02-21-2004, 11:14 AM
You are going to do what?

Chuck_Older
02-21-2004, 11:41 AM
LEADSPITTER-

Do you mean what I THINK you mean? Delete that, man.

*****************************
from the Hundred Years war to the Crimea, from the lance and the musket and the Roman spear, to all of the men who have stood with no fear, in the service of the King~ Clash

pourshot
02-21-2004, 01:25 PM
Maybe oleg is just trying to freak us out and he put it there for a joke.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~andycarroll68/mybaby.jpeg.JPG
Ride It Like Ya Stole It

necrobaron
02-21-2004, 01:57 PM
Chuck, Leadspitter has been banned. I doubt that's the same one we all know.

"Not all who wander are lost."

Willey
02-21-2004, 02:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG7_Rall:
Did the bar grow!?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope. Actually, the pilot's view is a bit higher than in the 190s. That makes the bar appear thicker, because approx the half of it is hidden behind the leather thingy in 190s.

What I can't understand is that you'll have a higher "seat" in the Ta. At least the Doras should grant the same FOV, because they have the same bubble canopy. On A-8/9 that canopy was rather rare, although we have it in FB.

Chuck_Older
02-21-2004, 02:41 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by necrobaron:
Chuck, Leadspitter has been banned. I doubt that's the same one we all know.

QUOTE]

Oh, I could tell the difference, beleive me http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif



Willey-

I think that leather thing you are referring to is called the coaming.

*****************************
from the Hundred Years war to the Crimea, from the lance and the musket and the Roman spear, to all of the men who have stood with no fear, in the service of the King~ Clash

Covino
02-21-2004, 03:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by pourshot:
Nor do I but if it's the cowling why is it only in front of the site?

Should it not be more towards the center if it was cowling?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

C'mon, people, it's obviously the front tip of the cowling because according to Zyzbot's pic, the front of the cowling expanded just a bit.

http://204.50.25.179/features00/images/images_7/ta152hgi_11.jpg

Now to answer your question about why it's not centered. The screenshots were taken with gunsight view on which means the POV is shifted off the plane's center line. A point several feet away (the tip of the cowling) isn't going to move off center as much as a point a few inches away (such as the cockpit/windscreen. That's like asking why your hood ornament isn't directly in front of you when you're sitting in the drivers seat. Sheesh.

pourshot
02-21-2004, 04:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EvilBen:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by pourshot:
Nor do I but if it's the cowling why is it only in front of the site?

Should it not be more towards the center if it was cowling?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

C'mon, people, it's obviously the front tip of the cowling because according to Zyzbot's pic, the front of the cowling expanded just a bit.

http://204.50.25.179/features00/images/images_7/ta152hgi_11.jpg

Now to answer your question about why it's not centered. The screenshots were taken with gunsight view on which means the POV is shifted off the plane's center line. A point several feet away (the tip of the cowling) isn't going to move off center as much as a point a few inches away (such as the cockpit/windscreen. That's like asking why your hood ornament isn't directly in front of you when you're sitting in the drivers seat. Sheesh.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Well I photo shoped a line of site in this pic so it not exaxctly correct but it should be close, as you can see the nose does not obstuct the line of sight at all.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~andycarroll68/Line%20Of%20Sight.jpg

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~andycarroll68/mybaby.jpeg.JPG
Ride It Like Ya Stole It

Chuck_Older
02-21-2004, 06:05 PM
Well, to be 100% fair, the line of sight would be at an even greater angle up, further reducing visual impediments in that pic...But there are a couple problems with that.

1)It's just a general arrangement drawing. It does look as if nothing's there, though.

2)I looked at the post that were recently on the forum about actual pics of the view out of a Fw. One thing struck me about all of them- the gunsight looked recessed slightly. Is the whole problem that the gunsight is just historically too low and the cockpit framing and/or reflection or adjusting aparatus is in the way, instead of something on the airframe? What we need to look closely at now is the actually area of the canopy/cockpit the gunsight is in.

I'm not seeing any obvious arguments to support that even a cowl flap is in the way on the airframe. To me, the next thing to examine would be the cockpit framing and the gunsight itself.

*****************************
from the Hundred Years war to the Crimea, from the lance and the musket and the Roman spear, to all of the men who have stood with no fear, in the service of the King~ Clash

MandMs
02-21-2004, 07:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:

One is not the engine cowl itself, but cowl flaps for the annular radiator.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The cowl flaps did not go all around the cowling, which can be seen very clearly in the GA drawings posted by Zyzbot. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:

Well, to be 100% fair, the line of sight would be at an even greater angle up, further reducing visual impediments in that pic...But there are a couple problems with that.

1)It's just a general arrangement drawing. It does look as if nothing's there, though.

2)I looked at the post that were recently on the forum about actual pics of the view out of a Fw. One thing struck me about all of them- the gunsight looked recessed slightly. Is the whole problem that the gunsight is just historically too low and the cockpit framing and/or reflection or adjusting aparatus is in the way, instead of something on the airframe? What we need to look closely at now is the actually area of the canopy/cockpit the gunsight is in.

I'm not seeing any obvious arguments to support that even a cowl flap is in the way on the airframe. To me, the next thing to examine would be the cockpit framing and the gunsight itself.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

1) Well he did say it was an approximation. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

2) War time photos show the Revi mounted much higher. Most the post war photos have the wrong gunsight mounted so the height is wrong. (there is a physical shape difference). This can be seen in a photo taken from a low angle of Schopfel sitting his a/c and the top of the Revi can be seen. There is also the imfamous Fw thread in ORR that had a photo, again taken from a low level, of Priller in his cockpit with the top of the Revi visible.

The word is refraction not reflection.



I eat the red ones last.

Chuck_Older
02-22-2004, 08:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MandMs:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:

One is not the engine cowl itself, but cowl flaps for the annular radiator.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The cowl flaps did not go all around the cowling, which can be seen very clearly in the GA drawings posted by Zyzbot. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:

Well, to be 100% fair, the line of sight would be at an even greater angle up, further reducing visual impediments in that pic...But there are a couple problems with that.

1)It's just a general arrangement drawing. It does look as if nothing's there, though.

2)I looked at the post that were recently on the forum about actual pics of the view out of a Fw. One thing struck me about all of them- the gunsight looked recessed slightly. Is the whole problem that the gunsight is just historically too low and the cockpit framing and/or reflection or adjusting aparatus is in the way, instead of something on the airframe? What we need to look closely at now is the actually area of the canopy/cockpit the gunsight is in.

I'm not seeing any obvious arguments to support that even a cowl flap is in the way on the airframe. To me, the next thing to examine would be the cockpit framing and the gunsight itself.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

1) Well he did say it was an approximation. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

2) War time photos show the Revi mounted much higher. Most the post war photos have the wrong gunsight mounted so the height is wrong. (there is a physical shape difference). This can be seen in a photo taken from a low angle of Schopfel sitting his a/c and the top of the Revi can be seen. There is also the imfamous Fw thread in ORR that had a photo, again taken from a low level, of Priller in his cockpit with the top of the Revi visible.

The word is refraction not reflection.



I eat the red ones last.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I am not just concerned about the game Ta 152, I'm really trying to figure out if the real Ta 152 had something there because I'm curious.

The gunsight is a not a reflector gunsight where a light source is reflected onto a piece of vertical glass? I am all too fully aware of the definitions of the words 'refraction' and 'reflection', BTW. I may have some ignorance of the exact technical working of the Revi gunsight, but I know what the words mean.

*****************************
from the Hundred Years war to the Crimea, from the lance and the musket and the Roman spear, to all of the men who have stood with no fear, in the service of the King~ Clash

MandMs
02-22-2004, 09:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:

The gunsight is a not a reflector gunsight where a light source is reflected onto a piece of vertical glass? I am all too fully aware of the definitions of the words 'refraction' and 'reflection', BTW. I may have some ignorance of the exact technical working of the Revi gunsight, but I know what the words mean.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What was the light bulb and mirror in the Revi 16B for?

Why is the 60mm wide piece of glass mounted on the top of the sight named the 'reflector plate'?

What was the dimmer rheostat for?

Operation

When the light bulb is switched on, it illuminates the sighting image. This is then relected off the mirror, and is so adjusted by its passage through the object lens that when it is projected rearwards from the reflector plate, it appears, to the sighting eye, to originate at infinity, and, therefore, to superimpose itself upon the target anlong the line of sight.



I eat the red ones last.

Chuck_Older
02-22-2004, 12:50 PM
Um, ok.

I'll bite.

First, I hope you've read my other posts about the cowl flaps reaching far up the fuselage. No need for the rolly eyes, my friend. I never said "It's the flaps" I said, "the only other thing it could be" is the flaps.

Second, I used the word, "reflection". You corrected me and told me it was "refraction". I didn't get all upset, although I did indicate I knew what the words meant. Then I posted that I was less than technically proficient with these gunsights.

Now, you post this:

"What was the light bulb and mirror in the Revi 16B for?

Why is the 60mm wide piece of glass mounted on the top of the sight named the 'reflector plate'?

What was the dimmer rheostat for?

Operation

When the light bulb is switched on, it illuminates the sighting image. This is then relected off the mirror, and is so adjusted by its passage through the object lens that when it is projected rearwards from the reflector plate, it appears, to the sighting eye, to originate at infinity, and, therefore, to superimpose itself upon the target anlong the line of sight."

Now, I understood all that. You just described how the refracted image is generated and used. I really, really do understand what they mean. I posted "reflection aparatus" and apparently, the correct terminology for the specific part, is, according to what you posted, a "reflector plate". I don't mean that you could see a reflection of this refracted image, by the way, and I don't even mean a reflection that you'd see off of say, the canopy. I literally mean: is a part of the physical reflection plate in your line of sight, through the gunsight. Now, I'm all for precision and correct wording to make things clear. But I beleive I posted that I was less than proficient with these sights. Could you make a small concession for me, please, and understand that just because I can admit I'm less than proficient, that doesn't mean I'm stupid?

In reading your other posts in other threads, I am convinced that you know what you're talking about. However, you're being fairly heavy handed and condescending and there's no need.

Treating me as if I haven't a clue is really rather insulting. Like I said, I never finsished my aeronuatical degree, but that doesn't mean I don't know a thing or two about aircraft, mechanics, physics, materials and methods, or a whole raft of other things. I'd appreciate it if you could treat me as though I have a clue.

*****************************
from the Hundred Years war to the Crimea, from the lance and the musket and the Roman spear, to all of the men who have stood with no fear, in the service of the King~ Clash

p1ngu666
02-22-2004, 01:18 PM
reading u two reminds me of old stuff my dad has
heavy going
no offense ment http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg

Chuck_Older
02-22-2004, 01:36 PM
None taken.

Online, you can't determine a lot of things that you could in a conversation. I find most trouble comes from when people take things personally, and when they do not state exactly what's on their minds. Smileys help a little, but then again, I could post the most horrid insults and put a smiley after it. When somebody complains, I could say, "just jokin". Doesn't make it so, though.

If there's an issue with another member, I just spell out what the trouble really is. Communication is tough enough without being able to see the other person's face.

*****************************
from the Hundred Years war to the Crimea, from the lance and the musket and the Roman spear, to all of the men who have stood with no fear, in the service of the King~ Clash

MandMs
02-22-2004, 02:36 PM
Ya, read your other posts - not much in them, pure uneducated guessing on your part. Then you attacked Swein, who with Cirx and some others, added much info to the 190 threads in ORR.


Well if you understand all that, then why did you say what you said:

"The gunsight is a not a reflector gunsight where a light source is reflected onto a piece of vertical glass? "

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif, and again http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif


No it can't be the radiator cowl flaps because there is none at the 12 o'clock position. Not only is it front of the Revi(which is wrong), the pilot could not see the cowl flaps through the front windscreen which can be seen very clearly in the GA drawings posted by Zyzbot on pg1.

You really do seem to not have a clue in this case.

Refraction was mentioned because of your comment of the view forward. Refraction raised the line of sight ~30mm(from the 190 thread in ORR).

It is you that has the attitude.



I eat the red ones last.

Chuck_Older
02-22-2004, 03:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MandMs:
Ya, read your other posts - not much in them, pure uneducated guessing on your part. Then you attacked Swein, who with Cirx and some others, added much info to the 190 threads in ORR.


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I see. Uneducated. Hmm. Go look in the book I cited as a ref. I may have been wrong, but it was not a guess, I exhausted three source books and came up with ONE drawing. the Ta 152 isn't exactly a DC-3 in terms of reference material. My ref is there, go look it up in the book if you think it was such a wild guess- and anyway, nowhere did I say "THIS IS HOW IT IS". But then again, you KNOW that.

Then I attacked Swein. RIGHT. Turned right around and bit his head off. Sure thing. I mentioned two names if you bother to read that again. And asking for proof is NOT an attack. Hey look, like I said in my multi- paragraph post that I can only assume you can't be bothered to read, I cannot be expected to know by osmosis what someone has and hasn't done. The reason we have open threads here is to discuss the content of that thread IN THE THREAD. Did Swein offer ANYthing other than a general statement, or a link to his proof, or any shred of anything other than his proclamation? NO. After I made my post, he just said, "nope, wrong". Not a shred of info- OF WHICH HE HAS LOTS! You're pushing the limits of honesty if you think that not only did I just randomly 'attack' them, but I was also not responding to their dismissal of me. So by your rules, I should have done a search on everything Swein posted before I responded. Jesus! Go read my response to Swein. I know that you understand what I posted in that message, so don't play dumb, I know you're not.

If he had wanted to accept or reject any of the things I said in that post, he had his chance. Instead his reply was an insult. Well good for him, another thrilling victory! Now that's over with, but you will not accept that and this is your way of perpetuating it.


So I see at last, your superior attitude is intended to 'put me in my place'. Stop taking things on such a personal level. You have a lot to contribute, but don't be so quick to assume you're a mediator of right and wrong. If Swein's your buddy, or you respect him so much, let him fight his own battles, you're not his Den Mother. At it's heart, it was a misunderstanding, but now it's your Crusade to avenge, I guess- even though you had nothing to do with it. Hey, if that's what makes you happy, have at it, but I'll spoil your attempts at casting me as Bad Guy by flat out telling you that it's none of your business if he and I disagree, or even if we hate each other till the bitter end, or decide to swap baseball cards or do anything else. Understand? None of your business, he is a big boy now and he gave his opinion.

and as for this:

**"Well if you understand all that, then why did you say what you said:

"The gunsight is a not a reflector gunsight where a light source is reflected onto a piece of vertical glass? " **

Come on! That is a surprised question. It means: "I'm pretty d*mn sure I understand how it works but you're making this out to be that I don't." YOU misunderstood what I said when I mentioned reflection! Honestly, I can't imagine you missing so many points when you're obviously smart. I don't buy it. You're just playing dumb and I'm not buying.


You have a lot to contribute, but God help anyone who doesn't fit into your sense of what's OK to post, huh? You don't like me, fine. You object to what I post, fine. Report me to Tully or some other Mod and get me banned for my posts if you can, but stop your little game here.

Since you like these, here's one right back at ya http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

And like I told Swein- I'm not here to bash anyone. If you need to continue this with me, do it in a private topic. Your posts have been progressively less about the subject and more about me.

*****************************
from the Hundred Years war to the Crimea, from the lance and the musket and the Roman spear, to all of the men who have stood with no fear, in the service of the King~ Clash

MandMs
02-22-2004, 07:20 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

I don't see any education being used by you, so your guessing is uneducated.


If a normal view had been posted you would see that the piece that is in the Revi is now in the centre of the lower windscreen. That piece is the radiator cowl ring. End of discussion!

Oh and take your own advice. You are the one with the 'attitude'.



I eat the red ones last.

Chuck_Older
02-23-2004, 10:09 AM
Hey, if that definition makes you happy, go for it. Uneducated it is, although the 'education' was in the looking through ref material and being inquistive and assertive enough to ask for proof when none was given. You just can't be bothered to check MY source is all. ANd I may add, I can't seem to post this enough: my source was a general arrangement drawing, and was misleading. It seems nothing is in the way of the gunsight at all.

I see you've mandated what the green thing is, so you're right: end of discussion.

If the definition of an attitude problem is, "let's get back on topic", then yes, I have a big attitude problem.

I suppose this is wasted on you because you ignore half of what I post, but just like with Swein, this exchange with you does not color my opinion of you or the information you post. Make of that what you will, I'm done with you.

Older out

*****************************
from the Hundred Years war to the Crimea, from the lance and the musket and the Roman spear, to all of the men who have stood with no fear, in the service of the King~ Clash

BlindHuck
02-23-2004, 01:05 PM
Nice, Older. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

I like the way some people latch on to and argue semantics (and even get personal http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gif) even though it seems like it would be obvious to most people what the original intent of a post was. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

The point is to convey information, not belittle people. (It appears you are a victim)

Anyway, I THINK the only thing IT could be is the top of the nose cowl (slightly nose down view) because it seems to be oriented towards the center of windscreen view (gunsight view shown). If it were cowl flap it seems it would be more towards center of gunsight view, end abruptly on left and gradually descend to the right. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Good times http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

"I race full real exclusively in IL2:The Forgotten Battles." - Mark Donohue

JR_Greenhorn
02-23-2004, 01:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MandMs:
I don't see any education being used by you, so your guessing is uneducated. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That's a funny sentence.

p1ngu666
02-23-2004, 03:28 PM
chuck seems educated to me
in english atleast http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
i think it might be cowl, or its wip and its some random bit they missed. hope its the latter
and btw, im not entirly sure how a gunsite works, for what its worth http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg

Ankanor
02-23-2004, 03:50 PM
if it is the engine cowling, then we will be able to see planes below us, cuz if you can see the cowling, you are looking down. I hope you see my point.

BTW, nothing can stop me brag about my new sig like a little kid. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

How

O, how I want to hold you,
To feel your breath
And hear your laughter in my ears.
To look into your eyes
And see myself in there.
Caress you with my lips.
To hold your hands in mine
And find the hidden smile in your dimple
That makes you irresistible
And stops the breathing in my chest.
To be with you when you are weeping,
To wipe away the tears and take away the sorrow.
To watch you while you are sleeping
Like there is no tomorrow.

And with a tender kiss to wake you up.

Essen,23.02.2004 20:53