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Thread: Shouldn't it be "torture", not "interrogate"? | Forums

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  1. #41
    Senior Member JaRuTo's Avatar
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    The Punisher for PS2 already did it, although they have the excuse of not having needless violence would be nerfing the character, who's mostly about fighting the underworld as violently as possible. Not sure how they can say the same about Fischer.

    For all that matters, a "moral choice" should have some implications in the game. For instance, want to torture them for possibly false intel that can lead the player into an easier way, or into a trap? Sure go ahead. But don't be surprised if after a couple, the CO decides to cut off starting mission bonuses or simply recall the whole mission considering the player to be rogue.

    There's no "moral choice" if all that happens is an achievement for killing x or sparing x enemies.

    Okay, let me think...
    This kind of brutal interrogation could be solved better.
    When Fisher need someone to interrogate to receive important information from the person who has it but doesn't want us to tell them at the beginning so we keep the victim and ask him a series of questions with multiple conversation options if the conversation is not successful, we have only one option, which is characterized by the brutal treatment punching the victim in the shoulder knife or something else. It's your choice how you gonna approach from this interrogation; should be able to interrogate, and if we're lucky, interrogate the victim without the use of unnecessary force, right? The entire system of interrogation that would be to make the election and not on the fact that Fisher uses violence without mercy as it can be done in a more subtle way.

    Let me give an example of one. When Fisher caught the victim in a dark room and try to use persuasion if you opt for the wrong choice of words, and after a while we can't sacrifice enough to scare revealed to us all that if we have to choose from such as dislocation / fracture shooting arm, leg to show the victim that we no joke and if we use the wrong words again and our victim is still based then crushes his arm, leg to the pain became unbearable leading to the fact that in the end will tell us everything.

    This is more appropriate and believable interrogation than actual from Blaclklist.
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  2. #42
    Senior Member shobhit7777777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_5_Freedoms View Post


    I label it torture because that's what it is... torture.

    As for making a statement... I guess the "statement" I'm making is call something what it is. It would be like if instead of "Press B to Kill Enemy" it said "Press B to Incapacitate Enemy". Sam's still going to kill the dude but what you've done is changed the wording so that it appears to mean something else. Why would you do that? Is the subject matter too mature? It's Splinter Cell, everything about it is mature. Is it morally objectionable? So is everything else in the game. Is it offensive? I would hope so, if you're completely fine and A-OK (and not in a joking way) and not uncomfortable with the torture of people (even on a TV screen) then there's probably something wrong with you.

    And maybe the biggest issue... does it make Sam look bad?

    No. Not really. It probably goes further to ground him in reality like if you choose to have him spare Dahlia or choose to save those pilots in Chaos Theory. He's a government agent who does questionable things to preserve the freedom and security of the United States but that doesn't make him amoral or unethical, even if he appears to enjoy it sometimes. What's important is that we know he's uncomfortable with what he does. But he does it because he knows he can and so that others won't have to.
    .
    Aha! There is the point you are trying to make..and guess what..I agree. No need to be so subtle bro Like I said earlier...torture/interrogation..it is pointless labelling it because at the end of the day Sam is twisting a knife inside someone.

    Anguish is severe mental or physical pain or suffering. If mental duress produces mental anguish then yes that is torture. My argument isn't moot.
    Still don't see it?

    By your definition and parameters EVERY interrogation is torture since it involves mental stress being induced to coerce information out of the a suspect. The silent treatment, confined to a small room, being harrowed by the interrogators, psychological mindgames, being locked up for long hours....to an average person even an hours worth of proper questioning can cause mental agony and stress. (torture in other words)
    Interrogation CAN involve torture...torture however doesn't always mean "interrogation". An interrogation's objective is retrieval of information...using any means necessary. A torturer however MAY do it for information or may just as well do it for teh lulz.

    It's the difference between Batman blowing breaking legs for information and The Joker breaking legs just for the fun of it.

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  3. #43
    Senior Member sameer_monier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_5_Freedoms View Post
    Reference?
    Basic understanding and some events that occurred in different countries, can't tell you that it is documented though


    Interrogations only involve asking or being asked questions.
    I don't believe so.


    It's still torture.
    used as an interrogation technique, so the grand process is still Interrogation.


    It's true that I see torture as encompassing interrogation, but this argument has nothing to do with what considered a "valid" technique.
    being a technique of interrogation, makes the torture act labeled interrogation in Sam's example.

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  4. #44
    Senior Member shobhit7777777's Avatar
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    If you want morality in 'Interrogation' sequences, you need to have the concept of the victim NOT HAVING ANY INFO...
    What if the victim IS telling the truth? that he/she doesn't know about X,Y or Z.

    Then the moral choice comes into play...should I torture this person or do I believe him/her? Is it worth it?

    Otherwise it is an empty choice...torture someone and you always get the info always making it worth it.

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  5. #45
    Senior Member SolidSage's Avatar
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    Ummm, so he stabs and wriggles the knife in the dudes because it's the quickest route to his objective (the info) and it's the tool he has on hand that gains the most leverage in that situation (threatening with a pistol doesn't carry the same immediacy I think).
    It does make it torture but torture employed in an interrogation.

    I doubt he enjoys it at all but I can see the urgency giving rise to a certain kind of necessity.

    I dunno Freedoms, come over here and let me try it out on you, I'll see if I can get you to spill info about your bank account and in return I'll let you know how doing it made me feel

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  6. #46
    Lets meet at the middle and call it "enhanced interrogation". It may not be pretty, but it works on the fly. Plus its much better than Sam gently lifting their arms and them somehow spilling everything from the past games.
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  7. #47
    I think it depends largely on your context.

    60 years ago, some police departments in the US still used phone books and physical beatings. They called it interrogation.

    50 years ago, in the Army, they trained you to how to take apart your crank radio, attach it to a captured enemy's testicals and fry him. They called it interrogation.

    40 years ago, police and federal agents could threaten people with violence with little fear of repremand, causing extreme duress. They called it interrogation.

    Today, trained interrogators and intelligence specialists are allowed to waterboard, slap hostages, detain them for 24 hours without a warent, subject them to freezing water and warm rooms for exteneded periods of time, force them to stand with their hands chained to the ceiling, deprive a subject of sleep and food for days, subject them to noise and light deprevation (often causing a subject to beleive he has been captive for much longer than he actually has), and use psychological techniques such as playing the same song repededly for days on end, and lying to the subect about his family and friends.
    The US government calls all of this interrogation. So do the newspapers and most American citizens, and its perfectly legal.


    Today in North Korea, they do much worse - and they call it interrogation. And over there it is perfectly legal.


    I imagine Sam himself would think of his actions as interrogation (for better or worse). Seeing as how we are playing as Sam, they are appropriately titled, I'd argue.
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  8. #48
    Senior Member mattduck69's Avatar
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    in my opinion Sam is on the clock here, very close to another attack so it sort of makes sense to me why Sam would go the "torture" way of interogating this man. I for one would be getting a little stressed knowing that saving my country is being held up by some bottomhole spitting in my face calling me an american-dog.
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  9. #49
    Senior Member MerriIl's Avatar
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    I understand why the interrogations need to be torture events (for the most part), and that is because terrorists dedicate their lives to their cause and their god. They are harder to break than some hired merc (like in the legacy games). Although there were terrorists in the legacy games, the technology back then didn't really allow for these real time events. Driving a knife into a man's shoulder is kind of a harsh way to start, but if you think about it, Fisher doesn't have a lot of time before the Blacklist is executed, so he has to resort to these methods.

    Still, I'd like a more free way of going about interrogations.
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  10. #50
    Senior Member michaelanjello's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_5_Freedoms View Post
    interrogate |inˈterəˌgāt|
    verb [ trans. ]
    ask questions of (someone, esp. a suspect or a prisoner) closely, aggressively, or formally.
    • Computing obtain data from (a computer file, database, storage device, or terminal).
    • (of an electronic device) transmit a signal to (another device, esp. one on a vehicle) to obtain a response giving information about identity, condition, etc.
    DERIVATIVES
    interrogator |-ˌgātər| noun
    ORIGIN late 15th cent.: from Latin interrogat- ‘questioned,’ from the verb interrogare, from inter- ‘between’ + rogare ‘ask.’

    Source: New Oxford American Dictionary

    interrogate
    verb
    the suspects were interrogated in separate rooms: question, cross-question, cross-examine, quiz, catechize; interview, examine, debrief, give someone the third degree; informal pump, grill.

    Source: Oxford American Writer's Thesaurus

    in·ter·ro·gate  <a onmousedown="spk(this,{lk:'nx1fkx',en:'wotdau',io: '0',b:'wotd',tp:'lrl',m:'wotdau'})" href="#"></a><a target="_blank" href="http://dictionary.reference.com/audio.html/lunaWAV/I02/I0253300"><img border="0" src="http://static.sfdict.com/dictstatic/g/d/speaker.gif"></a> [in-ter-uh-geyt] Show IPA verb, in·ter·ro·gat·ed, in·ter·ro·gat·ing.
    verb (used with object)
    1.
    to ask questions of (a person), sometimes to seek answers or information that the person questioned considers personal or secret.
    2.
    to examine by questions; question formally: The police captain interrogated the suspect.

    Source: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/interrogate

    World English Dictionary
    interrogate *(ɪnˈtɛrəˌɡeɪt)
    *
    — vb

    to ask questions (of), esp to question (a witness in court, spy, etc) closely
    *
    [C15: from Latin interrogāre *to question, examine, from rogāre *to ask]
    *
    in'terrogatingly
    *
    — adv



    interrogate
    Main Entry:
    interrogate <a onmousedown="spk(this,{lk:'nx1fkx',en:'wotdau',io: '0',b:'wotd',tp:'lrl',m:'wotdau'})" href="#"></a><a target="_blank" href="http://dictionary.reference.com/audio.html/lunaWAV/I02/I0253300"><img border="0" src="http://static.sfdict.com/dictstatic/g/d/speaker.gif"></a> [in-ter-uh-geyt] Show IPA
    Part of Speech:
    verb
    Definition:
    ask pointed questions
    Synonyms:
    catechize, cross-examine, cross-question, examine, give the third degree, go over, grill, inquire, investigate, pump, put the screws to, put through the wringer, query, question, quiz, roast, sweat out, work over
    Notes:
    question *means to challenge the accuracy, probity, or propriety of; interrogate *means to examine closely, aggressively, or formally by posing a series of questions to
    Antonyms:
    answer, reply

    Source: http://thesaurus.com/browse/interrogate

    in·ter·ro·gate vt \in-ˈter-ə-ˌgāt, -ˈte-rə-\
    in·ter·ro·gat·edin·ter·ro·gat·ing


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    Definition of INTERROGATE
    1
    : to question formally and systematically
    2
    : to give or send out a signal to (as a transponder) for triggering an appropriate response

    Source: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/interrogate

    interrogate

    interrogate verb

    1
    to put a question or questions to <interrogated him about where he'd gone the night before>
    Synonyms catechize, grill, inquire (of), interrogate, query, question, quiz
    Related Words besiege, bombard, cross-examine, cross-question, examine, pump; poll, survey
    Near Antonyms rejoin, retort; comment, observe, remark; avoid, duck
    Antonyms answer, reply, respond
    2
    to put a series of questions to <police interrogated the murder suspect for hours on end>
    Synonyms catechize, grill, interrogate, pump, query, question, quiz, sweat [slang]
    Related Words debrief; cross-examine, cross-question; annoy, harass, hound, pester; canvass (also canvas), poll

    Source: http://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/interrogate

    torture |ˈtôr ch ər|
    noun
    the action or practice of inflicting severe pain on someone as a punishment or to force them to do or say something, or for the pleasure of the person inflicting the pain.
    • great physical or mental suffering or anxiety : the torture I've gone through because of loving you so.
    • a cause of such suffering or anxiety : dances were absolute torture because I was so small.
    verb [ trans. ]
    inflict severe pain on : most of the victims had been brutally tortured.
    • cause great mental suffering or anxiety to : he was tortured by grief.
    DERIVATIVES
    torturer noun
    ORIGIN late Middle English (in the sense [distortion, twisting,] or a physical disorder characterized by this): via French from late Latin tortura ‘twisting, torment,’ from Latin torquere ‘to twist.’

    Source: New Oxford American Dictionary

    torture
    noun
    1 acts of torture: infliction of pain, abuse, ill-treatment, maltreatment, persecution; sadism.
    2 the torture of losing a loved one: torment, agony, suffering, pain, anguish, misery, distress, heartbreak, affliction, scourge, trauma, wretchedness; hell, purgatory.
    verb
    1 they have tortured suspects in order to extract confessions: inflict pain on, ill-treat, abuse, mistreat, maltreat, persecute.
    2 he was tortured by grief: torment, rack, afflict, harrow, plague, agonize, scourge, crucify.

    Source: Oxford American Writer's Thesaurus

    tor·ture
    1.
    the act of inflicting excruciating pain, as punishment or revenge, as a means of getting a confession or information, or for sheer cruelty.
    2.
    a method of inflicting such pain.
    3.
    Often, tortures. the pain or suffering caused or undergone.
    4.
    extreme anguish of body or mind; agony.
    5.
    a cause of severe pain or anguish.

    verb (used with object)
    6.
    to subject to torture.
    7.
    to afflict with severe pain of body or mind: My back is torturing me.
    8.
    to force*or extort by torture: We'll torture the truth from his lips!
    9.
    to twist, force, or bring into some unnatural position or form: trees tortured by storms.
    10.
    to distort or pervert (language, meaning, etc.).

    Source: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/torture

    World English Dictionary
    torture *(ˈtɔːtʃə)
    *
    — vb
    1.
    to cause extreme physical pain to, esp in order to extract information, break resistance, etc: to torture prisoners
    2.
    to give mental anguish to
    3.
    to twist into a grotesque form
    *
    — n
    4.
    physical or mental anguish
    5.
    the practice of torturing a person
    6.
    a cause of mental agony or worry
    *

    Source: http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dic...glish/tortured

    torture
    Main Entry:
    Part of Speech:
    noun
    Definition:
    severe mental or physical pain
    Synonyms:
    ache, affliction, agony, anguish, cruciation, crucifixion, distress, dolor, excruciation, impalement, laceration, martyrdom, misery, pang, persecution, rack, suffering, third degree, torment, tribulation, twinge
    Notes:
    torment *suggests persecution or the repeated inflicting of suffering or annoyance; torture *adds the implication of causing unbearable pain or suffering
    Antonyms:
    alleviation, contentment, happiness, relief

    Source: http://thesaurus.com/browse/torture

    Definition of TORTURE
    1
    a : anguish of body or mind : agony

    b : something that causes agony or pain
    2
    : the infliction of intense pain (as from burning, crushing, or wounding) to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure
    3
    : distortion or overrefinement of a meaning or an argument : straining

    Source: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/torture

    a situation or state that causes great suffering and unhappiness <it's torture for me to see you so unhappy>
    Synonyms agony, Gehenna, horror, misery, murder, nightmare, torment, torture
    Related Words affliction, calvary, cross, curse, ordeal, trial, tribulation; calamity, misfortune, tragedy; gall, thorn; bummer, downer, drag
    Near Antonyms delight, diversion, entertainment, fun, joy, pleasure, recreation; lark, picnic, riot
    Antonyms heaven, paradise
    2
    a state of great suffering of body or mind <spent an afternoon in torture waiting to hear whether her brother had made it home safely>
    Synonyms affliction, agony, anguish, excruciation, hurt, misery, pain, rack, strait(s), torment, torture, travail, tribulation, woe
    Related Words discomfort; cross, crucible, trial; heartache, heartbreak, joylessness, sadness, sorrow, unhappiness; emergency, pinch; asperity, difficulty, hardship, rigor; ache, pang, smarting, soreness, stitch, throe, twinge; danger, jeopardy, trouble
    Near Antonyms comfort, consolation, solace; alleviation, assuagement, ease, relief; peace, security; well-being

    Source: http://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/torture


    No.
    Give it up dude. Even if sam isnt doing "torture" hes still doing aggressive acts which falls under interogation. Hes using it as a method to extract information, not a method to hurt the guy after he already got the information.
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