Gamescom 2012 | Forums

[doogsy91]

It's probably going through a total change like SC07 and GRFS2010

I'm not so sure that's the case. Sears and his main men were moved to head up another project (presumably in the same roles) at Montreal. Why would Ubi management do that if they didn't like what they were doing with Patriots? And consider the feedback for Patriots compared to that of the original versions of FS and SCC. It has been hugely positive from oldschool fans, newer fans and the press alike. And despite a very lengthy development schedule, the reason they released the target gameplay footage and all the subsequent info was because they were genuinely concerned it was going to be leaked (screenshots of the footage were leaked not long before Ubi released it) and not necessarily because they were nearing a point in development were they were going to start releasing promotional material. Sears also stated that his vision had remained intact after he left the team and that Ubi was still backing it completely. He was replaced with the creative director from Heavy Rain which was one of Sears' main influences for the narrative direction of Patriots.

Have you listened to the interview that Urgent Fury did with Sears just recently? He said that he left both the Patriots team and then the team of the other project he was on on no bad terms. He also mentioned that Ubi had been offering him positions well before he started there so they must've been a fan of his. Plus, when you look at the creative approaches ACIII and SCB are taking, it seems to fit well with the sort of creative design language that Ubisoft were pursuing with Patriots in that there was an emphasis on maturity, believability, authenticity and giving the player the freedom to play how he/she wants and thus creating a game that is accessible to hardcore and more casual Rainbow fans alike. That said, you could be right and I'm just being hopelessly optimistic about it.

[sameer_monier]

I'm not so sure that's the case. Sears and his main men were moved to head up another project (presumably in the same roles) at Montreal. Why would Ubi management do that if they didn't like what they were doing with Patriots? And consider the feedback for Patriots compared to that of the original versions of FS and SCC. It has been hugely positive from oldschool fans, newer fans and the press alike. And despite a very lengthy development schedule, the reason they released the target gameplay footage and all the subsequent info was because they were genuinely concerned it was going to be leaked (screenshots of the footage were leaked not long before Ubi released it) and not necessarily because they were nearing a point in development were they were going to start releasing promotional material. Sears also stated that his vision had remained intact after he left the team and that Ubi was still backing it completely. He was replaced with the creative director from Heavy Rain which was one of Sears' main influences for the narrative direction of Patriots.

Have you listened to the interview that Urgent Fury did with Sears just recently? He said that he left both the Patriots team and then the team of the other project he was on on no bad terms. He also mentioned that Ubi had been offering him positions well before he started there so they must've been a fan of his. Plus, when you look at the creative approaches ACIII and SCB are taking, it seems to fit well with the sort of creative design language that Ubisoft were pursuing with Patriots in that there was an emphasis on maturity, believability, authenticity and giving the player the freedom to play how he/she wants and thus creating a game that is accessible to hardcore and more casual Rainbow fans alike. That said, you could be right and I'm just being hopelessly optimistic about it.

To be honest, I totally hope so, I hope you are right, and that Sears vision is still intact, but I don't know if they can carry on a vision someone else made, while he is not there anymore, due to the change of SCC & GRFS I am kinda worried that R6P will be changed, even though like you said, it had alot better reception.

Sears could have been moved up to another project due to his vision not to the liking of Ubisoft, not hard feeling should be there, also they removed his top crew, another 2, if they were to keep the vision, why remove the other 2 as well ?!, there are alot of mystery.

As for the maturity, believability, authenticity Ubi is seeking, I will respectfully disagree, Ubi is going towards cinematic experience, like the drone missiles sequence in SC, Sam Fisher running out of a collapsing burning building, giving Air Strikes which isn't mature but childish, making Sam Fisher ageless which is Hollywood not believable, authenticity is thrown out of the window so far, with the Five Seven Pew Voice after each shot, or how every guard goes uh after he gets shot, if we were talking about SAR, PT, CT yeah I would agree, but SCB is far from that, it is a video game, while the Legacy titles where something else. ((you may find me saying different things than what I used to say, but that's cause I changed my mind, I am beginning to see how Legacy titles where able to covey alot of things in a better than SCB could ever do))

[FuchsXSX]

I'm not so sure that's the case. Sears and his main men were moved to head up another project (presumably in the same roles) at Montreal. Why would Ubi management do that if they didn't like what they were doing with Patriots? And consider the feedback for Patriots compared to that of the original versions of FS and SCC. It has been hugely positive from oldschool fans, newer fans and the press alike. And despite a very lengthy development schedule, the reason they released the target gameplay footage and all the subsequent info was because they were genuinely concerned it was going to be leaked (screenshots of the footage were leaked not long before Ubi released it) and not necessarily because they were nearing a point in development were they were going to start releasing promotional material. Sears also stated that his vision had remained intact after he left the team and that Ubi was still backing it completely. He was replaced with the creative director from Heavy Rain which was one of Sears' main influences for the narrative direction of Patriots.

Have you listened to the interview that Urgent Fury did with Sears just recently? He said that he left both the Patriots team and then the team of the other project he was on on no bad terms. He also mentioned that Ubi had been offering him positions well before he started there so they must've been a fan of his. Plus, when you look at the creative approaches ACIII and SCB are taking, it seems to fit well with the sort of creative design language that Ubisoft were pursuing with Patriots in that there was an emphasis on maturity, believability, authenticity and giving the player the freedom to play how he/she wants and thus creating a game that is accessible to hardcore and more casual Rainbow fans alike. That said, you could be right and I'm just being hopelessly optimistic about it.

I just listened to the interesting interview.

What could that other unannounced title be ? When Sears left the R6P team Ubi said that he moved on to another major project for a major brand. In my opinion, it could very well be the "next generation" Ghost Recon as there are announced titles for every other major brand of Ubisoft.

Regarding change of R6P: I think sameer is right, that game will turn out and end like GRFS, a shadow of its former self.

[Justin-x]

The only reason I still have have hope about Patriots still turning out amazing is:

1) The project is being wholey developed by Ubisoft Montreal. Many of the most amazing games from Ubisoft have come out of Montreal. If you look at their resume of games that they have fully (just by themselves) developed you'll find games like AC 1 & 2, SC: Chaos Theory, and R6V1. They are also the ones developing AC3 and Watch_Dogs right now so I have faith that they'll put out a good product.

2) The head of the project right now is Jean-Sebastien Decant. He helped create the storys for heavy-narrative games such as Heavy Rain and Driver: San Fransico so there is still hope that the narrative aspect of Patriots might stay.

This is just wishful thinking at this point though.

[doogsy91]

To be honest, I totally hope so, I hope you are right, and that Sears vision is still intact, but I don't know if they can carry on a vision someone else made, while he is not there anymore, due to the change of SCC & GRFS I am kinda worried that R6P will be changed, even though like you said, it had alot better reception.

Sears could have been moved up to another project due to his vision not to the liking of Ubisoft, not hard feeling should be there, also they removed his top crew, another 2, if they were to keep the vision, why remove the other 2 as well ?!, there are alot of mystery.

As for the maturity, believability, authenticity Ubi is seeking, I will respectfully disagree, Ubi is going towards cinematic experience, like the drone missiles sequence in SC, Sam Fisher running out of a collapsing burning building, giving Air Strikes which isn't mature but childish, making Sam Fisher ageless which is Hollywood not believable, authenticity is thrown out of the window so far, with the Five Seven Pew Voice after each shot, or how every guard goes uh after he gets shot, if we were talking about SAR, PT, CT yeah I would agree, but SCB is far from that, it is a video game, while the Legacy titles where something else. ((you may find me saying different things than what I used to say, but that's cause I changed my mind, I am beginning to see how Legacy titles where able to covey alot of things in a better than SCB could ever do))

I just assumed that all the senior devs from Patriots were moved with Sears to the other project to fulfil the same roles.

And as for Blacklist, I agree that the gameplay we've seen isn't exactly mature, believable or authentic but I was referring mainly to the narrative aspect and in relation to that of Conviction (which was deplorable in my opinion), not so much the legacy games. Max reckons the storyline is going to be very mature, believable and relevant so I'm going to hold onto that and hope it is the case. And by the way, Sam's age was officially locked at 48 years ago. Around the release of DA if I remember correctly.

I just listened to the interesting interview.

What could that other unannounced title be ? When Sears left the R6P team Ubi said that he moved on to another major project for a major brand. In my opinion, it could very well be the "next generation" Ghost Recon as there are announced titles for every other major brand of Ubisoft.

Regarding change of R6P: I think sameer is right, that game will turn out and end like GRFS, a shadow of its former self.

Sameer and I were actually discussing the possibility of Sears directing the next GR in another thread on this board. And I wouldn't say FS or Conviction ended up as shadows of their former selves. I'm extremely glad neither of the original concepts/builds survived, however that's definitely not the case for me regarding Patriots.

[sameer_monier]

The only reason I still have have hope about Patriots still turning out amazing is:

1) The project is being wholey developed by Ubisoft Montreal. Many of the most amazing games from Ubisoft have come out of Montreal. If you look at their resume of games that they have fully (just by themselves) developed you'll find games like AC 1 & 2, SC: Chaos Theory, and R6V1. They are also the ones developing AC3 and Watch_Dogs right now so I have faith that they'll put out a good product.

2) The head of the project right now is Jean-Sebastien Decant. He helped create the storys for heavy-narrative games such as Heavy Rain and Driver: San Fransico so there is still hope that the narrative aspect of Patriots might stay.

This is just wishful thinking at this point though.

you got a point there,Montreal indeed got a great creative and talented devs

I just assumed that all the senior devs from Patriots were moved with Sears to the other project to fulfil the same roles.

And as for Blacklist, I agree that the gameplay we've seen isn't exactly mature, believable or authentic but I was referring mainly to the narrative aspect and in relation to that of Conviction (which was deplorable in my opinion), not so much the legacy games. Max reckons the storyline is going to be very mature, believable and relevant so I'm going to hold onto that and hope it is the case. And by the way, Sam's age was officially locked at 48 years ago. Around the release of DA if I remember correctly.

I really hope so, the plot got potential, but there are things that don't make sense, like the Nations are portrayed as Rouge and Terrorists, they shouldn't be like that, they also removed the flag cause some people didn't like it, then what are we dealing with exactly !!!!, just a bunch of terrorists or what ?!, unless they will make the nations flagless which would be stupid.

I was fine with Sam's age being locked, he kept getting younger, but looks older, but I didn't really think he will live forever, for me his age and look in SCC were perfect, he seemed like the old guy why been through it all, but now he looks way younger, like Nathan Drake or older a little bit, kinda sadden me.

Sameer and I were actually discussing the possibility of Sears directing the next GR in another thread on this board. And I wouldn't say FS or Conviction ended up as shadows of their former selves. I'm extremely glad neither of the original concepts/builds survived, however that's definitely not the case for me regarding Patriots.

It seems that won't happen, we lost Sears , BTW I didn't like the old SCC build too, as for GRFS I liked how gritty it was, it was kinda more realistic, also it seemed to be better, you probably didn't like the Shoulder Rocket Launcher, but if you think about it, it wouldn't have been a game breaker at all, I hope at least that GRFS.2 is more gritty and realistic

[doogsy91]

you got a point there,Montreal indeed got a great creative and talented devs



I really hope so, the plot got potential, but there are things that don't make sense, like the Nations are portrayed as Rouge and Terrorists, they shouldn't be like that, they also removed the flag cause some people didn't like it, then what are we dealing with exactly !!!!, just a bunch of terrorists or what ?!, unless they will make the nations flagless which would be stupid.

I was fine with Sam's age being locked, he kept getting younger, but looks older, but I didn't really think he will live forever, for me his age and look in SCC were perfect, he seemed like the old guy why been through it all, but now he looks way younger, like Nathan Drake or older a little bit, kinda sadden me.






It seems that won't happen, we lost Sears , BTW I didn't like the old SCC build too, as for GRFS I liked how gritty it was, it was kinda more realistic, also it seemed to be better, you probably didn't like the Shoulder Rocket Launcher, but if you think about it, it wouldn't have been a game breaker at all, I hope at least that GRFS.2 is more gritty and realistic

When you say grittier do you just mean the look of the environment? I definitely wouldn't have said old FS seemed more realistic. The cyborg exoskeleton idea is just blasphemous to GR as far as I'm concerned. That and the almost complete invisibility belong in the realm of Crysis. The cover system we got wasn't perfect but the very mechanical and inorganic look of the original system's animations really bugged me. And then there was enemy warhound things, sneaking right in front of baddies, holding up dead bodies pretending they're still alive and Kozak's Batman voice. But yes I'm all for more grit and realism in future GRs and all Ubi games.

[sameer_monier]

When you say grittier do you just mean the look of the environment? I definitely wouldn't have said old FS seemed more realistic. The cyborg exoskeleton idea is just blasphemous to GR as far as I'm concerned. That and the almost complete invisibility belong in the realm of Crysis. The cover system we got wasn't perfect but the very mechanical and inorganic look of the original system's animations really bugged me. And then there was enemy warhound things, sneaking right in front of baddies, holding up dead bodies pretending they're still alive and Kozak's Batman voice. But yes I'm all for more grit and realism in future GRs and all Ubi games.

Yes environment and art style, check this out:



Also the Exoskeleton is already there used by the USA Army as far as I know, and I am no expert, we actually would have needed it here since the Ghosts are carrying two big main weapons with full ammunition, the complete invisibility is still there in the GRFS we got, I used Cover Movement which is fast and I remain invisible and slip right through the enemies, it wouldn't be Future Soldier if they aren't using future tech.

As for Kozak gritty voice, well he wasn't batman, but he was alot older in the first build, as I showed you in the picture above.

Also the older build seemed to have Enemy Flying Drones that could detect you while you are invisible ((speculation on my part)) that would have made the game harder, not to mention some enemies wore TVG so they could spot you, hence more challenge which is gone from the build we got now.






Also for the enemies Enemy Warhound I like it, it would also have added challenge, rather than the level we got, which I spent by the way only controlling the hound and blowing everything away, and that thing's missile never depleted, it had an infinite ammo, at least if there were Enemy Warhound it would have been more interesting ((especially if you are trying to sneak behind them)), to me at least.


IMO all these elements made GRFS.2010 more appealing to me, also did you see the end of the demo ?!, check around 6:26, now that is a Ghost for you, they are in, and out, done their mission, and on one knows.

[Dieinthedark]

Yep, GRFS 2010 nailed the art design and atmosphere so much better. The E3 reveal felt better, it felt more serious, more believable, future tech and all. It felt relevant and worthy of the Tom Clancy title as it pushed near future tech. Now the same people who say this isn't TC anything can't accept the near future is now 2014-2020 and not 2000-2010, of course there's going to be advanced technology. The GRFS we ended up getting is simply a REALLY lethal game of paintball chocked full of artificial cover. I'll pass

[Justin-x]

I find it odd that GRFS 2010 would have been a complete opposite of R6V in terms of gameplay.

R6V= third person while in cover/ GRFS 2010= first person while in cover


On another note, like you guys said above, I hope that Patriots has action that stays authentic without it being over the top or cliche. The mature narrative that they were/are(?) going for made it look like it being a grounded story with believable villians and a much more realistic feeling combat than GRFS. I would find it hard to believe if some american extremists somehow got a hold of a chopper or tank.