Easy to learn, Hard to Master - M&E | KIM | Forums

[The_5_Freedoms]

Remove the need to earn an Execute token, reduce the numbers of Marks with a pistol to two and make each kill a Mozambique Drill.

[coltcat]

Unfortunately, the Mark & Execute mechanic is set in stone in Blacklist. There is no way they could change or tune it because the whole map design is being created around ( 1 Takedown = Full M&E tokens )

for me that's one of the main issue with M&E, the exchange ratio is way over the top. in SCC 1 takedown = 4 autoaim plus 1 or 2 manual kills comes with the execution.
even if SCB has max token number down to 3, with KIM ability things ain't looks any more challenging.





IMO theres few way the game can get this idea bit more "tactical"
simplest way is to tone down the takedown/token-ratio to 1 to 1. in higher difficulty maybe.
secondly, make a way to let player to loose their token, like got into firefight, theres 2 or 3 second delay from IDed to really engaging you, if a player lost his chance to execute right away after he got caught, he should lost tokens and need to get his way out in more conventional way, after all it's not like your character can standing up and performs a perfect IPSC shoot-off move while everyone are shooting at him anyway.
third, enemies should still able to fire their guns and kill you while executing, so you can't just taking hits while run/jump right into center position of a group of enemies and simply hit the execute button and freeze everyone's reaction then gunkata everyone down without dying.


or get rid of takedown/token deal , and give player a token-timer, obviously the game has some sorta internal timer, why can't the game just filling up your token if player can just stay hidden for enough of time. this should requires more patient and consideration when using M&Es.

[MerriIl]

M&E should be something you have to earn by beating the game. Or, at least purchase with the new in-game currency system.

[sgg847]

A thing I noticed about gaining the M&E token is that it seems not to be necessary to do a Stealth Takedown to get it.

M&E was not about a stealth takedown but a melee attack.
Sorry guys, but your offers will only make M&E boring and unnecessary complicated for gameplay.

[Om4zd]

I agree with Shobhit.

Making complex placements will definitely make the game more difficult an require the player to use stealth more often.

[noodlenerd]

I think what The_5_Freedoms proposed about every execute becoming a mozambique drill would be good.

The M&E should be tied to the difficulty level so that at lower difficulties it is as it is now, but for the higher difficulties it could use more bullets per mark. I think they already said that there will only be unlimited ammo for the easy difficulty, which means that ammo will be more scarce and as such, M&E would be something that you really need to think about before using.

For the highest difficulties, it should be maximum 2 marks at once, and each mark using three bullets, ie mozambique drill or something like that. I think it would turn the M&E into something more of a tool than a win-button at the higher difficulties.

I don't think 1 takedown = 1 mark would be good, simply because it would be restricting to those of us who like to ghost for the most part but still like to use the M&E once or twice. That would mean that we were forced to takedown guards to rack up points, which again would feel detrimental to the whole ghosting part. I want to be able to mix and match playstyles within the same level, after all.

[FrankieSatt]

M&E isn't hard to master. In Conviction it was so easy to get the ability to use it that If I wanted to I could have killed half the people in the game with M&E. M&E is the worst thing they ever added to Splinter Cell and there is nothing that will make it better other than to remove it.

Since that isn't an option the next best thing is to make it so we can play the game without using it.

[Jazz117Volkov]

Took me a bit to find this, haha
But its pretty much all I have to say on the matter for now.
(Originally from here)

Well, that'd sure make it more difficult to earn, but M&E isn't really about difficulty. In fact, [ M&E = easy ] is probably the greatest misconception ever.
In no small part due to how ridiculously overpowered it is (what I said before ^ )
Personally, I'd be super annoyed if playing on HARD (the only difficulty for me) crippled one of my tools.
That's like giving your nightvision a ten foot range on hard, because it's trying to make it 'harder' (fake difficulty)

Mark and Execute shines when the game doesn't script it.
The DLC levels in Conviction showed that it can be done, and that it is really cool.
You manipulate the AI to create that perfect setup, and then unleash; viva la - (c) Shobhit - Domino of Death

And unfortunately I foresee Blacklist having some situation where it begs you to M&E.
But really, handing the scenario to the player is a disservice to the gameplay loop.

I think, instead of crippling M&E on HARD, you instead change the AI placements to ensure there's no 'automatic scenarios'
I love working to make the perfect setup. The true difficulty, READ > challenge < is forging that perfect scenario through careful planning and subtle action.
We even have the whistling back = bliss

You prepare
Patiently watch from the shadows, memorize the AI routes, make a sound to get one where you need him, or silently take one down so you can get where you need to be.
Maybe prep a gadget, or ready to shoot a light.
Execute
Take a manual headshot, pounce on an enemy from up in the rafters, shoot a light, drop a gadget (dump EMP and toss grenade to take care of mangy straggler) or simply wait at a corner and then jump out and punch'em in the face.
But the gear here is the M&E. Once you hit execute, It plays out just as it did in your mind when you planed your steps, and the baddies drop like dominoes. (Domino of Death)
Vanish
Disappear via any one of several ways that you've already planed out.
It was smooth, it was silent (lethal stealth) and while the executing may not have been difficult, the planning was indeed challenging, and thus after you vanish, you feel majorly rewarded.
THAT is the Panther gameplay loop.

Blacklist has killing in motion, which allows you to blend these scenarios together, so you're effectively preparing for multiple executions across a large area.
Or preparing for the next one 'while' executing the last one. It's like prepare, execute, repeat without a break. It's the closest thing to Chess I've seen in a game to date.
However, it is imperative that the game pulls you up on your mistakes and ideally kills you outright. It'll make it super intense and even more rewarding on HARD.
Also, that is why I call for priority marking (Andre came up with that?) that plus the human shield + execute will make 'your' position paramount. With perfect strategy you become a factory of death, BUT one mistake and you'll be dead too. That's the predator gameplay I want from Blacklist.

That's just the thing. M&E and the Panther loop are one and the same.
You can't have the grand strategies without M&E.
M&E effectively opens up gameplay possibilities that do not exist in it's absence.

However, (I hope) M&E no longer helps you in firefights.
I don't like the idea of using it as an escape button.
That's another major disservice... it's like the opposite of fake difficulty. Yuck
Priority marking, no God-mode, and execute only available when both feet are flat on ground, are very important to me. Without those changes, M&E will continue to be the potential 'win button' that it is so hated for.

[RaulO4]

what about they just copy RDR?? that M&E system that came before SCC

or what about a M&E has an optional Slow mo stage rather then Auto kill?

or the best option......remove M&E and have 2 buttons so you can better smooth out the controls??
have a jump button and things like that?

[FrankieSatt]

what about they just copy RDR?? that M&E system that came before SCC

or what about a M&E has an optional Slow mo stage rather then Auto kill?

or the best option......remove M&E and have 2 buttons so you can better smooth out the controls??
have a jump button and things like that?

The M&E that was used in Red Dead Redemption was fine. That also wasn't a STEALTH game. RDR is an action game and I have no problems with some sort of M&E in those games. Splinter Cell is a STEALTH game that is based on STEALTH. M&E isn't s stealth mechanic, it's an action mechanic. It works well in action games when you have 5-10 or more people chasing you and firing at you at once. In Splinter Cell the focus is to avoid as much contact as possible and if you do have 5 -10 or more people shooting at you than you have done screwed up and you need to exit and hide and find a way to pick them off one at a time. This isn't RAMBO we are talking aboiut and Sam Fisher shouldn't become Rambo.

STEALTH is what this game should be about and M&E isn't used for stealth, it's used for Action.