That's the thing which is making that feature overpowered in my opinion. Restricting it to Stealth only, you still have an aggressive style you could use. You mentioned the points yourself later on.M&E is a flexible tool which rewards both stealthy and action players. You can deploy it tactically OR simply use it as you wish.
I suggested to stick to one facet. Let it be only Stealth, let it be only Inbetween Stealth and Action or let it be completely Action. I just took the second one because that's what I felt what the devs intented the feature to be like but I am completely fine if it's only Stealth focused. Allowing for tactical use, aggressively and defensively and the other two points you named.You feel that it offers the players an easy way out, supports a more overt playstyle, doesn't have consequences for reckless usage and hence is easily abused....and I agree. But IMO...M&E is more of a tactical stealth tool rather than the 'gameplay loop paradox' that you are suggesting.
That's where I disagree. It can be one. That's how you use it but it's not only that and that's why it's overpowered.Like I stated in my earlier post...M&E is a STEALTH TOOL BY DESIGN. The side-effect is the abuse that we want to curb.
I am not saying Grabbing is not stealthy, I was trying to point out that this isn't a takedown at all. If the feature would require you to do a real Stealth Takedown, you would need to think much further when it comes to your planning since you cannot grab and use the token and abuse the enemy as a human shield. If we would include the suggestion that the Execution stage cancles when one of the enemies shoots at you back, we have the situation that we included the downside that is easy exploited through the use of a human shield.Yeah...a grab is stealthy action in my books. But the underlying principal remains the same.....a Stealth Attack, grants you the ability to headshot enemies. THIS is where player choice comes in and the whole "Tactical" debate comes into play.
Not sure what you mean with the last one, but you focus much more on Stealth. There is so much situations where you can use that feature, but you just counted the examples which are stealthy, which is great. I am not saying that's wrong, I think it's right to restrict the feature to one aspect/facet to make it not as powerful.(a) You can choose to be quite about it and plan it such that NOBODY detects your execute (Shooting the last 2 guys, shooting 2 guys in the darkness and away from patrol routes, luring in two guards etc....BTW I say two because that is the average number of guys I execute per one M&E)
hence rounding off your well laid plans with a COVERT EXECUTE
(b) You can do an OVERT EXECUTE and launch a surprise attack....like the one you see in the demos...grab one guy..mark the chandelier...mark the remaining guys..and execute. A loud, messy way but ultimately "stealthy" because they are all dead
(c) Conserve it for trickier situations
(d) Use it to go commando
You were always talking about planning when discussing about this feature which means that you limited yourself there a lot already. Seems like I did only improvise, not that the enemies were in investigation/alert mode though.Using Covert Executes is better for all since the AI routines are not broken, patterns continue and you can move on with the next step of your plan (if any)...hence rewarding you with more opportunities for stealthy attacks and silent takedowns..like a perfect cycle.
When you go Overt..well routines won't matter much then...you can improvise.
This here is completely different to the stuff you said above and I agree with this here. M&E by design supports a stealthier playstyle design, but it's not a Stealth tool by design because that would speak against the whole flexibility it has and I would say it shouldn't have that since limiting it seems to higher up the tactical aspect and the satisfaction to use that tool. It would also strengthen it as a Stealth focused tool.M&E by design supports a stealthier paystyle
M&E IS flexible...and perhaps SHOULDN'T be.
You restrict it to planning, to a heavy Stealth feature (I like that) but as you said above you can improvise in these both modes very well too, because of it's flexibility.Not that alert mode...sorry should've made myself clear...I meant the Investigation mode.
Picking them off one by one maybe easier (Predator mode)......but it lends itself to chaos in my experience.
When you have studied the routines and patrols...you know what happens next..you can plan around it...take it into consideration..and remain one step ahead of the enemy. This is essential for remaining quite and sneaky.
Once you get them in investigative mode....they are more prone to find the bodies you leave behind...you don't know where Guard #3 is because he left his patrol route and is off searching for you somewhere.....thus making you think twice before executing #3 & #4...you know what I mean?
You are more or less reacting rather than following a plan.
I don't mind these quick chats because these are believeable and I even want them to have, more different dialouges though. Also it's rather the AI placement of Deniable Ops you are preferring, in the Singleplayer that's... well it seems we know that it isn't cool at all there.Absolutely
Clusters are actually a good idea, bro.
1. Guards often get together and have a quick chat...its natural and feels realistic
I mean things like you saw in the Blacklist demo where the AI was literally standing like in an alley where you could move in kill, left, right, left, right. With KIM this whole thing with clusters is getting to a whole new level.
But that's how you end the gameplay loop of M&E isn't it? Prepare-Execute-(Detected)-Vanished(LKP appears). I know you may say that's just one facet again, but you are using it as a Stealth tool only, you don't have the Vanish part, other than that M&E will cancle when someone shoots at you but that's not possible yet. As you said, you have it only for the dramatic effect... LOLLKP harkens back to the Panther/Predator concepts. It uses an Overt Execute to get an LKP....then off to cat and mouse. The Gameplay loop changes once an execute takes place..wouldn't you agree...because once you get your LKP and vanish...you are back into the INVESTIGATIVE MODE....which lends itself to panther gameplay ..not renter the PEV loop..not with as much depth anyway..as it becomes more improvisational.
I see...I vanish for dramatic effect XD
Haven't you said somewhere that the predator is inbetween Stealth and Action? Which is why I wrote this above what I said before. What you say here is how I always felt about the Predator/Panther who doesn't use M&E.Could be...I like to think of predator as the guy who stalks, spooks and takes out enemies one by one.