extremely broken balance - this is not heroes 3 | Forums

[futatn_69]

....the stronghold faction, which only makes use of half of them;

I think I found one fact in your edit out of the whole thing. The problem is that you mix it in with a bunch of your opinions that make me feel like I'm listening to Hitler talk about the final solution. I'll break your argument down to an english level that actually uses capital letters when it starts a sentence. You say that inferno gained much more than the rest. This is true as they were the weakest at release, with a racial that would never trigger because it relied on luck. Now they have luck and they can use there racial so what is the problem with that? <<<<(This is a question, answer it and then state your opinion with facts and examples; not with your reading rainbow analogy of "you don't have to take my word for it" just play the game".

For example, critical hits are modified by luck at a basis of 1% per luck I believe. Can anyone clarify the game mechanics on luck, and the bonus damage luck brings in?

As for stronghold gaining only half of the stat buffs, well that is correct. That is called balance, and I'd have to say that starting a game on a large map you wouldn't even miss having those prime stat boosts. The only place it actually affects balance is in duels, and as far as I know that is what you are complaining about. When I've played a shaman on a large map I have great early games, which skyrockets me to great late games. By the end of the game I have so many boosts from artifacts prime magic boosts do not matter. I'm sorry to say but having access to light and dark magic is greater than having prime magic. Also shamans are more of a hybrid class, as strongholds creatures hardly benefit from magic power. Level one stats of a shaman start out with 3 might power so this should be apparent, (lol), that they are going to not rely on there magic as much as any other factions mage would.

[direction270]

I see a huge bias in your posts, looks like you only care about magic stronghold heroes. You say these changes were mainly buffing Inferno. Did you take into consideration how underpowered Inferno was prior to 1.5? Healing was mandatory, direct damage spells useless, stat talents laughable. Spending a talent point to gain 1 destiny was just too awesome, wasn't it? You want that back again?

i use the stronghold and inferno factions in my explanation only because they represent the extremes in regard to how much influence the most recent set of patches has had in imbalancing all 5. prior, the inferno faction was not imbalanced, healing was not mandatory, direct damage spells were not useless, and stat talents had quite enough influence. these are all very strong opinions, to which i must ask for a wall of data from you for verification.

[direction270]

I think I found one fact in your edit out of the whole thing. The problem is that you mix it in with a bunch of your opinions that make me feel like I'm listening to Hitler talk about the final solution. I'll break your argument down to an english level that actually uses capital letters when it starts a sentence. You say that inferno gained much more than the rest. This is true as they were the weakest at release, with a racial that would never trigger because it relied on luck. Now they have luck and they can use there racial so what is the problem with that? <<<<(This is a question, answer it and then state your opinion with facts and examples; not with your reading rainbow analogy of "you don't have to take my word for it" just play the game".

there is no problem with the bonus to the luck stat that the inferno troops received. however, i personally did not find them to be underpowered at release, focusing on both luck and morale in my play style so as to decrease the role that randomness plays in the activation of their special as much as possible.

For example, critical hits are modified by luck at a basis of 1% per luck I believe. Can anyone clarify the game mechanics on luck, and the bonus damage luck brings in?

for the inferno faction might is also a modifier in the calculation for the bonus that luck adds to damage. the fan created manual contains quite a wealth of information along these lines.

As for stronghold gaining only half of the stat buffs, well that is correct. That is called balance, and I'd have to say that starting a game on a large map you wouldn't even miss having those prime stat boosts. The only place it actually affects balance is in duels, and as far as I know that is what you are complaining about.

you are correct that the issues these changes cause are not very apparent in the early game, and that they are highly apparent in the dueling environment.

When I've played a shaman on a large map I have great early games, which skyrockets me to great late games. By the end of the game I have so many boosts from artifacts prime magic boosts do not matter.

the other factions do not receive these boosts as well?

I'm sorry to say but having access to light and dark magic is greater than having prime magic.

opinion, and purely irrelevant.

Also shamans are more of a hybrid class, as strongholds creatures hardly benefit from magic power. Level one stats of a shaman start out with 3 might power so this should be apparent, (lol), that they are going to not rely on there magic as much as any other factions mage would.

the stronghold faction relying on the spell power stat to a lesser degree than the others is not solid justification for giving all other factions a major boost to both it and the magic defense stat; while at the same time increasing the power of damage spells, and the cost of healing spells. as you stated this issues is highly noticeable in the dueling environment, and this is just one issue with one faction, and in one situation. the influence these changes have on altering the underlying balance of the entire game is drastic, all in what appears to be an attempt at making it more like the previous installments in the series.

[futatn_69]

You must have not have payed any attention at release if you think inferno was any good at all upon release. They where a bugged faction with a no good racial skill. Half of there troops never triggered luck on release, and portal was just horrible as it was. As for luck the damage won't hardly be noticed unless you use a might hero. Even then it is very little compared to a free action from moral. I don't think you have even looked in the fan manual as there is no details on how luck works and how it adds damage.

As for dueling let me just say that it's a nice idea but in this game there is always going to be a build that won't work. That build is going to come from shamans, and really I don't care. I'm done with duels, as they are not fun seeing who can shoot the biggest chain lightning or get the first stack killing heroic charge in.

As for my point about shamans having advantage from having dark over prime it can be expressed with the fact that an ability you can use early is better than a little buff that isn't really that great. For instance the life drain buff, heal, and regeneration will ensure an awesome early game with shaman. No one else can get all three spells. Hence they have the advantage over everyone one else when it comes to attacking neutrals. They will have more artifacts, more experience, and will have hardly lose any troops in battle. The only thing slowing them down is mana regeneration but you can offset any weakness in this game with a good custom character. My point is relevant and not as opinionated as anything you have stated, so please from now on choose your words carefully. If it helps right in your native tongue as I'm tired of seeing writing that lacks any credibility from bad punctuation from no capital letters.

[direction270]

You must have not have payed any attention at release if you think inferno was any good at all upon release. They where a bugged faction with a no good racial skill.

the inferno faction may be a bit more complicated to play than haven or necropolis, but i have been playing all 5 factions since the first day one could pre-order to beta test, and felt in no way that it was weaker than any of the others.

Half of there troops never triggered luck on release,

i do not deny the possibility, but this i never noticed, and i personally never felt any weaker when playing as inferno.

and portal was just horrible as it was.

another opinion that i strongly disagree with. timing, placement, and as i mentioned earlier, a play style strongly favoring both luck and morale.

As for luck the damage won't hardly be noticed unless you use a might hero.

it is not irrelevant.

Even then it is very little compared to a free action from moral.

both is a nice combo.

I don't think you have even looked in the fan manual as there is no details on how luck works and how it adds damage.

i stand corrected, there is no section dedicated to the subject of how luck actually modifies damage. it is an extremely useful document however, with quite a bit of information on the many modifiers of the luck attribute itself.

As for dueling let me just say that it's a nice idea but in this game there is always going to be a build that won't work. That build is going to come from shamans, and really I don't care. I'm done with duels, as they are not fun seeing who can shoot the biggest chain lightning or get the first stack killing heroic charge in.

the dueling environment is an important aspect of the game, and although it is just that, it is also a very helpful tool in the balancing process. personal preferences are again not pertinent.

As for my point about shamans having advantage from having dark over prime it can be expressed with the fact that an ability you can use early is better than a little buff that isn't really that great.

opinion, demonstrating a lack of thought on the subject, and irrelevant.

For instance the life drain buff, heal, and regeneration will ensure an awesome early game with shaman.

this is relative, and not nearly as much in favor of the shaman class as it used to be.

No one else can get all three spells.

true. they are however radically underpowered by comparison, and all three do not maintain their usefulness to the main hero for very long, depending on whether the path of blood or tears is taken.

Hence they have the advantage over everyone one else when it comes to attacking neutrals. They will have more artifacts, more experience, and will have hardly lose any troops in battle.

nonsense.

The only thing slowing them down is mana regeneration but you can offset any weakness in this game with a good custom character. My point is relevant and not as opinionated as anything you have stated, so please from now on choose your words carefully. If it helps right in your native tongue as I'm tired of seeing writing that lacks any credibility from bad punctuation from no capital letters.

the credibility of one's writing on a forum is not determined by their use of the shift key.
personally i am not finding this particular dialogue to be very fruitful, and although my hat's off to your signature, will probably not be replying to any more of your posts.

[futatn_69]

Good to here as you show a lack of intelligence that I can't stand.

[Nightmus]

Are you really saying that magic blood inferno heroes were as good as any other? Unusable racial with bugged crits, low crit overall for a faction that relies on it so much, very underpowered direct damage spells, weak, non self sufficient creatures, which require you to heal them, buff them with drain life and stone skin (which is tears, not blood). In late game you're at disadvantage in everything - you may not have lvl2 blood as you use too much tears (or you've lost too many creatures otherwise), your direct damage spells don't do any significant damage - only Inferno (or whatever it's called - the spell which bounces between targets if they're nearby) is worth casting, but only against AI, human players aren't stupid to let this thing tick more than twice. The army isn't as strong as that of might heroes and the only real power you have is dark magic. But not against Necropolis. I'm not sure if it was even possible to beat a good Necropolis player as blood magic Inferno hero. Blood magic Inferno was the weakest of all.