Feedback on AC revelations multiplayer, please read.
I really enjoyed playing your game ac revelations; the originality of this game is awesome, as i find much enjoyment from playing artifact assult.
However the game mechanic's for combat were sacrificed for a more fast paced gameplay. Here's a few things that I would love to see change if you ever decide to make another multiplayer for the assassins creed series.
Likes : Acrobatic's, Feeling of being a ninja, chase breaker's.
Mechanic's of combat...
I don't enjoy that you kill or stun simply by pressing x or b. I think you should integrate the combat mechanic's from the game into the multiplayer. Stun's and abilities would leave your opponent vulnerable to being assassinated. Weapon's and Armour would also have varying effect's and perks, pros and cons. Would add much diversity, creativity, and strategy into the game.
- the animus hack; ...
- the wrist firearm: please make the opponent aim with this weapon, but at the same time don't turn this game into a first person shooter. Locking on and shooting someone from half way across the map is lame and upsetting.
- Getting killed in your own spawn on artifact assault..
- stun animation; currently the animations for being stunned are much too long, especially when your opponent can assassinate you from 10 feet away.
- the compass: I feel like it can ruin trying to blend in with the cloud. It's hard to blend in or stay hidden when someone has a map to your direction...
- chase breaker perk's + hot pursuit:
- Hardcore mode: Please add a hardcore mode! expecially for artifact assult. Would be nice to truly be able to blend in. And Disable any perk's that can reveal your pursuit / target in hardcore mode.
- time it take's for perk's to recharge: ...
- playing with your friends: I want to be able to have a custom team. Especially when teamwork is so important in this game I want to be able to select who I play with, who my teammates are.
- hot pursuit: This perk is extremely overpowered. There are no perk's to defend against this, and the fact that you can be killed by a press of x is frustrating.
- honorable death and spamming x/b: ... When you can sneak up on someone and stun, and they happen to be spamming x at the time. You get honorable death. Very frustrating. Honorable death in general is very frustrating.
- Not being able to kill: Not being able to kill on enemy's side in artifact assult, along with overpowered perk's to defense is frustrating.
- Haybales: Maybe you shouldn't be able to kill someone while in a hay bale, they could act as safe area's. It's the least you could do for someone that has to hide in a mold infested play pin. Also when I jump in a hay bale I intend to stay in a hay bale. On xbox the game auto jump's you out, not shure if it's a bug but it's more than annoying.
- Set Character: It's very hard to blend when people can see you with there perk's compass. Therefore you should be able to not have a single character. Ex: Everyone must play as Ezio, Female Char, Trickster. Ect.
Summary: This game is great, But it can be Soooooo much better, especially if you redo the combat system.
I'll add more as I continue to play this game, very good game. Solid Idea, and very original but the game mechanic's for combat are very frustrating.
If anyone would like to play Ac Revelation's, artifact assault with me my xbox gamertag is kid brute.
Last edited by ccperry05; 08-03-2012 at 06:27 AM.
Oh god, here we go: First, the mechanics of the single player wont work in multi player, everybody would just turtle around. The single player combat is designed around one player only.
Originally Posted by ccperry05
Stun animation: The stun is not supposed to be something you can count on, it's a last minute resort. So you really should not try using it offensively or often as a strategy.
The compass: Just...hide better. Use more blending perks or abilities, for example. Without it, everybody would just use the roof.
What is wrong with time for the perks to recharge? they seem fine to me. Nobody wants Smoke Bomb spamming.
Teammates: You mean as in invite friends and team up? you have a point there.
Hot pursuit/chase breaker perks are not really overpowered. I dont see what is so wrong with them, mind elaborating?
Animus hack might aswell be useless.
And yes, there will be multiplayer in Assassin's Creed III, the next game.
The ability to recently open a chase breaker + close chase breaker + hotpursuit can make it nearly impossible for someone to escape during a getaway. Me personally I love being chased but that all ended once I hit higher level's and everyone started getting more op perk's.
Originally Posted by HaSoOoN-MHD
And I do believe they could create a lighter version of the singleplayer mechanic's for multiplayer. There has to be something better than just pressing x or b. It's extremely frustrating at times. I agree I do not want slow paced combat but x/b combat is no better.
Hide better? It's hard when your pursuer has perk's to pinpoint you and a compass and map to your location. You cant hide. I feel like this game is extremely defense oriented. Also the perk's recharging and smoke bomb spamming. People smoke bomb spam just fine with current recharge rate. It would make the game more fast paced, which i believe is what ubisoft wanted when creating the multiplayer.
Last edited by ccperry05; 08-03-2012 at 06:03 AM.
...You can. Use blender, or blend abilities, and go into moving groups, or even subtle spots, certain positioning that can fool him. Unless he has Templar vision *Which if he does, he will glow like a Christmas tree* run for your life.
It just cant work. Mostly because of how they designed it, everybody would turtle in their spot and wait. It would create really clunky and slow combat.
And not many people actually use those perks, from my experience, since there are much better perks, but throw a smoke bomb, or use Mute. There are many counters to it.
EDIT: Not at all actually, the game bot supports defense and offense, you just need to find the right combination for your play style.
Well I've not hit level 30 yet so I cant blend abilities but, atm I can't run for my life because he will have hot pursuit, and he can kill me/ x me from 10 feet away or more if he's using a wrist firearm, even if i stun him he can still lock me and end me with firearm. ugh.
Originally Posted by HaSoOoN-MHD
I really believe it's possible for them to create fast paced combat system that will work. You cant say it wont work because it hasn't been done. Shrink Life Point's, add speed, weapon's can have reach, ect, my imagination is going crazy! endless possibilities! but to just advert the problem of poorly designed combat, at least in my opinion, and my cousins opinion , is lame. We're playing this game together atm, much fun. Would you like play with us also? I'd love to see how you play the game!!! And on that note, they should add splitscreen!! And balance the team's correctly.
Last edited by ccperry05; 08-03-2012 at 06:20 AM.
If you have a PS3, sure~
But here is the thing: the combat is designed around counter attacks, speed, and momentum *As of ACIII, supposedly* so basically, everybody would literally just stand there, hold counter, and hope for the other guy to attack, or lets say they dont have counter, what about dodge? and we would have a leveling problem. You see, if the weapons keep getting better and better as you level, and armor, people of lower level would be at a even more sever disadvantage.
And also, what stops somebody of just running away near death?
It would be interesting, but I dont think it would work
The gun is useless IMO. It may be irritating, but it gives him what..100-150 points?
Without the gun you can score much higher.
Splitscreen would be a nice addition, I wonder how that would change the dynamic.
The problem with split screen tho, is it can at times drop the team down, since people playing split screen are at a disadvantage compared with people who have their entire screen in use. Interesting concept, tho.
I really hope they fix the team thing tho, if you invite your friends, you go on the same team.
Yes, the current combat system is frustrating, not really a combat system at all. And the singleplayer combat system integrated into the multiplayer would be frustrating or possibly boring.
back to the drawing boards for me i guess.
also no sadly i have xbox 360...
Last edited by ccperry05; 08-03-2012 at 07:21 AM.
Originally Posted by ccperry05
I'm sorry, and this is not a personal attack, but these are some of the most stupid critisicms I have ever heard.
-Mechanics of combat: The game is based around stealth and manoevering around to kill targets or defend / hide against your pursuers. If you put in these real time fight mechanics the game will just be an all out brawl, with top players and their better equipment destroying the low levels. Definately a terrible idea.
-Animus hack: You need a 9 kill streak and you only get 100 points per hack. It is pretty powerful, say in Artifact Assault if you get hacked while running the flag home. But it takes so much time and effort to get and the points reward is insignificant. Would not miss it if gone, but it's a fun thing to use.
-The gun: It only gives like 100 points (200 if mid air?) excluding streaks and x2 scores. It is a handy ability for strategic games like Artifact Assault or killing a roof runner in Manhunt (for example). Forcing players to free aim would make it even more underpowered. The lock and aim mechanic works just fine, though what I would like is a longer aim time... Like maybe 2.5 - 4 seconds depending on crafting. I agree it is upsetting to be shot from ages away but you have the ability to do the same, and the cooldown for gun is pretty big so they used one ability slot on a low scoring kill. Don't get too upset about it.
-Stun animation: Have you played Brotherhood multiplayer? The stun animations there were about the same as kill animations, and even that felt fair. Revelations has crazy fast stuns, I would not object to them being slowed down but speeding them up would overpower stuns even further. Revelations pushes the balance as far as it can afford to go, if not slightly further, in stunning's favour as it is. Also I have noticed that stun range has increased dramatically and killl range seems to have gotten smaller. If stuns completely overpowered kills there would be no point in hunting your target, the game would just be about stunning pursuers and the entire thing would be a big screw up. NO.
-Compass: Play deathmatch. Would I guess be cool to have the option to disable compass for other game modes, but removing it completely is utter madness. Good luck finding your pursuer hiding in one of the corners on the other side of the map in a morphed blend group. Good luck getting more than a few kills at most per game.
-Chase breaker perks: I would much rather have my overall cooldowns / kill buffer / hot pursuit perks than chase breaker ones. Chase breaker perks may have their use, but overall are weak in comparison except for certain unique circumstances. Once a chase is initiated there aren't many points to be had anyway.
-Perk recharge: Perks don't recharge. If you mean abilities, I think if anything they should increase, or at least some increase over others. Smokebomb should have a large cooldown as it is so versatile, so effective and used by almost all players, while "lesser" abilities like firecrackers should have shorter cooldowns to encourage their use and more variety in ability usage in general.
-Playing with friends: The one valid point you have raised, though most of my friends aren't on PS3 so I don't have any to play with anyway I have heard you can't stay on your friends team always. I was playing last night against two players who were on the same team for about 5 games in a row I think, they were talking to each other on the mic etc, I think they were in the same room. So maybe there is a way, can't really comment as I have no experience in this but if you can't choose to stay on teams with your friends that is pretty lame.
-Hot pursuit: Not at all overpowered. In choosing this perk I have to sacrifice my boosted cooldowns or my kill buffer. It's a tough choice, but in a points based game I would opt for the kill buffer and cooldowns. Remember the speed from hot pursuit only effects chases, where not many points are available anyway. If it's Artifact Assault and they are running with the Artifact? Knife them, intercept them, whatever. It's definately a good perk, but not overpowered.
Some flaws I would want fixing would be:
- Increase cooldown for smokebomb, decrease lesser abilities cooldowns like fireworks, tripwire bomb etc.
- Slightly reduce stun range, so you can't fly quite so far to smash them.
-Fix a few glitches such as abilities not deploying when the button is pressed under correct circumstances (very frustrating) and obviously lag.
And as usual, people are missing the whole reason single player combat doesn't work for online multiplayer.
I still want a single-system combat arena mode. They could make it LAN play on PC.
No running, enclosed arenas to fight in. Just combat.
They'd have to use the first game's combat system, not the later ones - although I can't judge AC3 yet, since I haven't played it.
Everyone keeps saying "but everyone would just turtle and wait for the chance to counter" - NO. In AC2, yes. In ACB, no, in ACB, the first person to land a kick would win. In ACR, it would either be counter or kick wins, because they had some enemies capable of blocking kicks, so it's conceivable the player could do the same thing. Regardless, the only game with a balanced combat system is the original.
You sit there waiting for a counter, your opponent steps in and does a guard-break attack - guess what? YOU CAN'T COUNTER THAT. Your guard is knocked away, and you're left open for a free hit. If you see it coming when they step in, then you have a moment to change your tactics and dodge instead, leaving your opponent (mostly) open for a follow-up attack. A perfectly-timed counter will still connect, and a counter-dodge would also allow them to evade your attack, but they won't be able to block normally, and if they're at all off on their timing for either action, you'll get the hit.
When a player lands a perfect hit, a combo attack can be initiated for extra damage - potentially instakilling the other player. But you HAVE to get that clean hit first, and it can't be initiated from a counter. If you know your opponent is off-guard, you can hold the attack button down and do a more powerful attack. If they counter, they get a chance at a 2-stage counter that can potentially instakill you though, so it's a risk/reward ability.
You also have a throw ability, which once again allows you to attack even while an opponent is blocking, and the normal counter has no effect on it. You don't deal any damage directly, but if you throw them off a ledge or into a wall, some damage will be sustained, and it leaves the target on the ground incapacitated for a moment afterwards. As with everything though, there's a counter - throws can be reversed and will result in YOU being the one thrown and left laying on the ground vulnerable.
Because of the multi-layered approach, several "fake-out" tactics are possible. stepping in as if you're going for the guard-break, then grabbing the opponent instead as they get ready to dodge. Going for a grab form a little outside arm's reach - if you don't connect, you can interrupt the animation with an attack while your opponent is trying for the reversal.
Seriously, I wanted this when the first game had just come out. I still want it now. It would be awesome. But no, Ubisoft still aren't giving us the best option, and instead chose to break everything that made the system viable for this kind of play in subsequent games.
But back to why it doesn't work online. TIMING. Everything is based on TIMING your reactions. You need to be reacting faster than most online games can manage. In a shooter, your reaction times can be measured in tenths of a second, a ping of 200ms (0.2s) isn't going to be impossible to play with - it's still more of a challenge than a guy with a ping of 50, but not by a huge amount. In single player AC combat, even a 100ms ping (which is about average for most players of online games) is going to be completely game-breaking. 0.1 second delays will be enough that you not only miss the enemy starting to swing, but by the time you see it, they've already landed the hit and moved on to a combo-kill and won the fight. Pretty much, the single player combat will boil down to "host wins" EVERY SINGLE TIME. With NO exceptions. EVER. It's just straight-up impossible to work that kind of combat online, in any form. OFFLINE, as I said, it would be great. LAN play, or a single-system arena mode, would be brilliant.
It MIGHT be possible, given the redesign of the combat system for AC3, but we don't know. And for the record, holding the counter button won't work in single player for AC3, so it's certainly not going to work for multiplayer. But from the way things have been described in previews, it will, once again, be based on precision timing.
When I make this argument, there's usually some idiot who kicks up a fuss about how fighting games are heavily timing based and they work online. There are 2 arguments against that:
1. No, they don't work online. They sometimes ALMOST work online. They're BEARABLY broken, but they're still not working properly.
2. The more important argument - fighting games aren't based around timing your actions IN RESPONSE TO THE OTHER PLAYER. You only have to have precision timing against YOUR OWN animations, which have no ping time to get in the way. Any time you have counterattacks or reversals in a fighting game, they either have a longer window than you get in AC, or they can be spammed while you're waiting to lead into the animation, so the differences in how they work means that you don't have the same problems AC combat would have to deal with.
If they reworked the combat system heavily enough that it was viable for online play, it either wouldn't be AC combat at all, or it would control more like MMO combat and would be terribly slow-paced and get REALLY boring, REALLY fast.
Last edited by obliviondoll; 08-18-2012 at 04:50 PM.
Unless I'm reading this completely backwards... dude it sounds like you want a Mortal Kombat/DOA type combat style o_O